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beastie050
06-01-2012, 2:08 PM
So I just finally bought a Remington Model 700 SS 5-R Mil-Spec 308 Win 24". I'm a newbie in the world of bolt action rifles. What do you guys recommend recommend for scope base/rings and Scopes? I think I want to go down the Leupold route.

wjc
06-01-2012, 2:12 PM
What are you going to use it for?

My Winchester mod 70 is set up with a Leupold VX-II 3-9X40 for deer/pig/zombies.

I think they used Weaver rings and mounts when my gun dealer installed it.

beastie050
06-01-2012, 2:14 PM
What are you going to use it for?

My Winchester mod 70 is set up with a Leupold VX-II 3-9X40 for deer/pig/zombies.

I think they used Weaver rings and mounts when my gun dealer installed it.

Long range target shooting, maybe 500-700 yard range? I go to Angeles or the desert usually.

wjc
06-01-2012, 2:20 PM
Leupold VX-3 8.5-25x50mm Long Range Target $1k

Leupold Mark 4 8.5-25x50mm LR/T M1 $1.3 K

You could also look into Huskemaw scopes

http://huskemawoptics.com/

beastie050
06-01-2012, 2:26 PM
Leupold VX-3 8.5-25x50mm Long Range Target $1k

Leupold Mark 4 8.5-25x50mm LR/T M1 $1.3 K

You could also look into Huskemaw scopes

http://huskemawoptics.com/

perfect, thanks

Coyotegunner
06-01-2012, 2:33 PM
I run a quite a few Leupolds up to the VX3 8.5-25.Not complaining because I own them and like them.For the the $500 plus range,I like the Zeiss stuff better.$1000 plus look at the Nightforce.
If you are just starting out,get around some of the long range guys,maybe a match or something.Look through theirs.Recently I was hot on a spotting scope and friends really pushed me to get a Swarovski.I got to looking at a Leica and it may be the way my eyes see,but the Leica is far clearer to me.Feel free to PM me and I can fill you in with a phone number on a 27 scope test I went through on my personal stuff.

Whitefang
06-01-2012, 3:09 PM
Well now that you gave us a distance, what is your price range?

beastie050
06-01-2012, 3:30 PM
Well now that you gave us a distance, what is your price range?

Flexible, maybe 600-1000?

Short Action Precision
06-01-2012, 3:34 PM
Vortex Viper PST 6-24. Best for that price range.

Rings I would recommend TPS Seekins or Badger.

HK Dave
06-01-2012, 3:46 PM
Vortex Viper PST 6-24. Best for that price range.

Rings I would recommend TPS Seekins or Badger.

+1 Most bang for your buck for sure.

Or you could hurry and buy in on the current Snipershide SWFA group buy on a 5-20x

AlliedArmory
06-01-2012, 4:55 PM
In your price range, the Vortex Viper PST will get you everything you need.

Mainly comes down to what features you want though. Zero Stop, Illuminated, Target Turrets, Matching Reticle/Knobs, FFP or SFP?

Rings/base comes down to budget too. You can spend $300 on Badger setup or $100 on a EGW/Burris XTR setup. Both work perfectly fine.

AlliedArmory
06-01-2012, 4:57 PM
If you can go halfers on the SWFA Group Buy, the 5-20x HD will fit right in your budget. Just find someone that wants to get the 1-6x that comes in that combo.

FLIGHT762
06-01-2012, 5:20 PM
http://huskemawoptics.com/

Before purchasing a Huskemaw scope, I'd do a little reading first. Here's a good start.


http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1356574&page=all

My opinion is you're better served with a traditional MIL/MIL MOA/MOA long range scope.

When you custom make your first free turret with the Huskemaw, it's set for one load at one altitude.

If you change anything, you will need another custom turret. Each turret costs $100.00.


With a traditional long range scope, you can print out custom come ups for any velocity, bullet and altitude. No need to buy $100.00 turrets.

In my opinion, no need for the Huskemaw system, which initially costs as much as a Leupold Mark 4 or a Vortex PST. If you want a custom turret, Kenton Industries can make you one or Leupold also offers it.

Budd
06-01-2012, 5:56 PM
For the budget minded - since Angeles only has steel targets to 600 yards - the SWFA SS fixed 10x with mil dots will get you there. If you decide to upgrade later they resell very well. Get a good base and rings as others have stated.

6doubleR
06-01-2012, 6:05 PM
+1 - I have an SWFA SS 10x with mil dots with a weaver mount and rings, and I couldn't be happier with it.

For the budget minded - since Angeles only has steel targets to 600 yards - the SWFA SS fixed 10x with mil dots will get you there. If you decide to upgrade later they resell very well. Get a good base and rings as others have stated.

Short Action Precision
06-01-2012, 6:09 PM
+1 - I have an SWFA SS 10x with mil dots with a weaver mount and rings, and I couldn't be happier with it.

Not sure if SWFA has come out with a matching reticle and knob fixed 10 yet. I do not recommend getting it unless it is matching. The Bushnell elite has matching knobs and is a hair cheaper. If the SS does then that is a great option for the cheaper minded consumer.

Shrubmaster
06-01-2012, 6:13 PM
Horus Blackbird II

/winner

Or Mark 4, worth every penny.

EDIT: The bushnells are feature packed but don't have the adjustment range of the luepolds. But if your not going to go for 1k with your 700, a bushy should be just fine.

2nd Shot
06-01-2012, 6:21 PM
If you're looking into Leupold, you probably plan to spend 1K+ or so, at which point there's quite a few good options. Nightforce is a rugged scope, and is probably a top choice if you're going into harsh conditions or staking your life on it, they're not known for the very best glass, however. I've looked through a sub 1K Zeiss Conquest and was impressed by how bright and clear it was. The Vortex is probably a killer bang for the buck, and where I'll probably spend money if I ever move up from my Falcon 4.5-14x44 FFP.

On that note, you may find it amusing that I shot my very first shots at 1000 Yards last weekend in gusty, random winds, then promptly ended up in a scored match. Didn't bring home the win, of course, but all 25 scored shots were on paper, with ~3-4 in the white, the rest in the black, with at least 1 10-x caught on camera... I did it with a 20" SPS-Tactical with the aforementioned $400 Falcon scope mounted in Seekins rings on a Badger base. Would I purposely pick that scope to go into combat with? No way. It shows what can be done, though.

Your rifle should give you an easier time at longer ranges with a slightly faster twist and 4 more inches. Make sure you get some glass that'll let you stretch her legs!

beastie050
06-01-2012, 6:50 PM
Just browsing on the internet so far, I really like the Vortex Viper PST 6-24 so far

jtv3062
06-01-2012, 8:12 PM
I like Badger rings and bases. When installing your base I suggest you bed the base to the rifle. For rifle scope I like Leupold Mk 4 10x40, old vx-3 3x10x40, and vx-III 6.5X20X40 alp 30mm tubes.

jtv3062
06-01-2012, 8:20 PM
Heres an article about bedding a scope base and a good site to learn from. http://www.8541tactical.com/scope%20base%20install.php

stocksuspension
06-01-2012, 11:25 PM
Just purchased and received a swfa 5-20.. I'm extremely impressed with the clarity

beastie050
06-02-2012, 12:23 AM
Ok dummy question, let's say I get the Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP Riflescope.. How do I know if I need the Low, Medium or High height rings? And looking at Badger Ordnance, Is my Rem700 24" a short action or long action?

Short Action Precision
06-02-2012, 12:43 AM
More then likely it is a short action. I would recommend either Standard or Medium in the Badgers.

d33pt
06-02-2012, 2:32 AM
you'll need medium height rings for that scope

AlliedArmory
06-02-2012, 2:59 AM
Ok dummy question, let's say I get the Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP Riflescope.. How do I know if I need the Low, Medium or High height rings? And looking at Badger Ordnance, Is my Rem700 24" a short action or long action?

I have that exact scope on top of a EGW 20MOA base and Low Burris XTR rings on a Remington 700 SPS-V.

As long as your scope has enough internal adjustment, get a 20 MOA base. You will have plenty to zero at 100 and still reach out to 1000 yrds.

If it's a 308 then it is a short action, 300 winmag is a long action.

StraightShooter
06-02-2012, 8:23 AM
The vortex PST will fit what you want to do perfectly. Short Action Precision who posted in this thread is also a great guy to get one from. I have shot many Long range tactical matches with him and he knows his stuff.

runway1
06-02-2012, 8:36 AM
Vortex Viper PST 6-24. Best for that price range.

Rings I would recommend TPS Seekins or Badger.

+1 again.

Not sure if you've ever compared these side by side but for the price, it was a no brainer for me.

I sep up a 700P, .308win, 26" barrel for mostly Angeles and desert shooting - some pig hunting coming soon. It's had several hundred rounds now and that scope hasn't budged. It's dead on, clear at dusk and all you could want. Paarax adjustment for long range works great. Positive, quality nobs with solid "clicks".

If you're heart is settled on the extra $400/$600, that's your choice. Leupold certainly makes a fine product. I just don't think you're anywhere near $400 better. much less $600.

runway1
06-02-2012, 8:37 AM
you'll need medium height rings for that scope

On the 700, correct, agreed. My Leupold low rings are too low. Medium is what works.

beastie050
06-02-2012, 8:39 AM
+1 again.

Not sure if you've ever compared these side by side but for the price, it was a no brainer for me.

I sep up a 700P, .308win, 26" barrel for mostly Angeles and desert shooting - some pig hunting coming soon. It's had several hundred rounds now and that scope hasn't budged. It's dead on, clear at dusk and all you could want. Paarax adjustment for long range works great. Positive, quality nobs with solid "clicks".

If you're heart is settled on the extra $400/$600, that's your choice. Leupold certainly makes a fine product. I just don't think you're anywhere near $400 better. much less $600.

I think my heart is set on the Vortex after the research I have done online ;)

Droppin Deuces
06-02-2012, 8:46 AM
If you have an opportunity, check out the Weaver Tactical 3-15x50 or 4-20x50. They are the best thing I found in that price range. Nothing against Vortex, but I thnk the Weaver has it beat. SUPER clear glass. Made in Japan by Light Optical Works and built like a brick ****house. Also, FFP if that's worth anything to you.

FLIGHT762
06-02-2012, 8:56 AM
I think my heart is set on the Vortex after the research I have done online ;)

The Vortex scope will do you well. They have the best warranties in the business.

I'd recommend at least a 20 MOA canted base to get you out to 1000 yards.

When you decide what rings you will go with, call or e mail the ring manufacturer and ask what height to go with the 50 MM OBJ Vortex. Proper scope heights can vary with different base / scope combinations. This will save you from getting the wrong height and having to send them back for the proper set.

An example is; I have two scopes, a 34 MM tube- 50 MM obj and a 35 MM tube-50 MM obj. One uses a Seekins low ring and the other an IOR low ring. They both are on one piece canted bases. Conversely, Leupold Mark 4 "0" cant bases require a high Mark 4 ring for 50 MM OBJ scopes.

beastie050
06-02-2012, 6:12 PM
So what would you guys do if you had the option for either

1) Brand new Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP Riflescope
2) Used Leupold Mark 4 6.5-20x50mm LR/T M1 Illuminated Reticle

Same price.

Short Action Precision
06-02-2012, 7:25 PM
I am not a Leupold fan. So my opinion is a little bias. Vortex PST if you can find one would get my vote.

FLIGHT762
06-02-2012, 7:36 PM
So what would you guys do if you had the option for either

1) Brand new Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP Riflescope
2) Used Leupold Mark 4 6.5-20x50mm LR/T M1 Illuminated Reticle

Same price.

I vote for #1. The Leupold is SFP and has MOA turrets with a MIL reticle, both are less desirable than the FFP MIL/MIL Vortex.

norcalcyclist
06-04-2012, 8:24 AM
I mounted a Leupold Mark 4 ER/T 6-20x50/TMR on my 700 Tactical in 223. A fantastic piece of glass, IMHO. That being said, I stepped up a bit for my current 700 build (308 w/5R barrel) and picked up a USO scope. A bit more, but the low light clarity in a side-by-side comparison made the choice easy.

Hamstur
06-04-2012, 11:16 AM
Imho, the 3-15 and 4-16 range scopes are ideal for 308. Since you mentioned desert, I wouldn't go SFP cause you will find situations where you want to shoot low mag & be able to hold for wind. For 600-1000 total budget, this will eek you by:

- $99 Seekins 20MOA base
- $110-$129 Seekins (or Vortex Precision Matched) 30mm rings
- $800 used Viper PST 4-16 FFP

wjc
06-04-2012, 3:35 PM
Before purchasing a Huskemaw scope, I'd do a little reading first. Here's a good start.


http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1356574&page=all

My opinion is you're better served with a traditional MIL/MIL MOA/MOA long range scope.

When you custom make your first free turret with the Huskemaw, it's set for one load at one altitude.

If you change anything, you will need another custom turret. Each turret costs $100.00.


With a traditional long range scope, you can print out custom come ups for any velocity, bullet and altitude. No need to buy $100.00 turrets.

In my opinion, no need for the Huskemaw system, which initially costs as much as a Leupold Mark 4 or a Vortex PST. If you want a custom turret, Kenton Industries can make you one or Leupold also offers it.

Flight762 makes good points. I added Huskemaw as a high end option since I don't know the OP or his requirements.

Leupold's are usually fine for my needs....

beastie050
06-04-2012, 3:43 PM
I ended up buying the Leupold :cool2:

63 tango
06-04-2012, 3:55 PM
I have a Leupold VX3 6.5-20 on my 40x and its a sweet scope. So is the rifle.

HonkingAntelope
06-04-2012, 9:11 PM
If you are set on a Leupold and have time and patience, learn how to tell the fake ones apart and start trolling eBay and other sites for deals. A little over half a year ago, I scored an 6.5-20x50mm FFP Leupold with a TMR reticle for just $1200 (with list price being anywhere between $1600 and $2k+)

mls204
06-05-2012, 10:50 AM
This thread has been helpful to me. I recently DROS'd a Remington 700 SPS Tactical and also am in the market for a scope. I also have an AR-15 that I was planning on putting my Weaver 1-3x20mm on but then I discovered the SWFA facebook deal. From what I've gathered, it's pretty much the deal of the year in riflescopes, as someone put it. That seems like a no-brainer for me.

stevied
06-05-2012, 11:44 AM
What about the Sightron SIII?

FLIGHT762
06-05-2012, 2:14 PM
I ended up buying the Leupold :cool2:

Your Leupold will work for you, but you are going to have a couple of handicaps using it for long range.

1. It is a Second focal plane scope. This means your MIL reticle can only accurately measure a full power. A first focal plane scope will remain accurate for measuring and holding over at ALL power settings. It's not a big deal, only if you are going to shoot steel matches at varying distances using holdovers for timed events.

2. Your reticle is in MILS. Your turret adjustments are in MOA. This means all of your come ups will be adjusted in MOA. If you decide to do holdovers using your MIL reticle, the hold overs will be in MILS. If you take a long shot and can see your bullet strike, you can measure your miss with your reticle. Say the miss was 1/2 MIL right and 1 MIL low and adjust, but with MOA turrets, you will have to convert MILS to MOA. This is a bigger deal. You will have to have range (trajectory) cards in both MILS and MOA.

This is why it is important to have matching turrets and reticles. When they match, it makes it so much easier to make adjustment using one unit of measurement. It doesn't matter if you use MILS or MOA. Having matching turrets / reticles makes it so much easier.

Even when sighting in the rifle. When you have matching reticle / turrets your reticle becomes a measuring device. lets say your sighting in at 100 yards and your bullet strikes high and to the right of your point of aim. You can actually use you reticle to measure the strike of the bullet to where you were aiming. Let's say it was 1 MIL high and 3/4 MIL right. You move your .1 MIL click turrets 10 down (1-MIL) and 7 clicks (.70 MIL) left. Your next shot will be very close to your point of aim. You can do this at all distances.

I started off in long range shooting using mismatched turrets / reticles. ALL of my newer scopes are all matching. I still have a couple of mismatched Turret / reticle scopes, but my two serious long range precision rifles have matching turrets / reticle scopes on them.

wjc
06-05-2012, 3:00 PM
Your Leupold will work for you, but you are going to have a couple of handicaps using it for long range.

1. It is a Second focal plane scope. This means your MIL reticle can only accurately measure a full power. A first focal plane scope will remain accurate for measuring and holding over at ALL power settings. It's not a big deal, only if you are going to shoot steel matches at varying distances using holdovers for timed events.

2. Your reticle is in MILS. Your turret adjustments are in MOA. This means all of your come ups will be adjusted in MOA. If you decide to do holdovers using your MIL reticle, the hold overs will be in MILS. If you take a long shot and can see your bullet strike, you can measure your miss with your reticle. Say the miss was 1/2 MIL right and 1 MIL low and adjust, but with MOA turrets, you will have to convert MILS to MOA. This is a bigger deal. You will have to have range (trajectory) cards in both MILS and MOA.

This is why it is important to have matching turrets and reticles. When they match, it makes it so much easier to make adjustment using one unit of measurement. It doesn't matter if you use MILS or MOA. Having matching turrets / reticles makes it so much easier.

Even when sighting in the rifle. When you have matching reticle / turrets your reticle becomes a measuring device. lets say your sighting in at 100 yards and your bullet strikes high and to the right of your point of aim. You can actually use you reticle to measure the strike of the bullet to where you were aiming. Let's say it was 1 MIL high and 3/4 MIL right. You move your .1 MIL click turrets 10 down (1-MIL) and 7 clicks (.70 MIL) left. Your next shot will be very close to your point of aim. You can do this at all distances.

I started off in long range shooting using mismatched turrets / reticles. ALL of my newer scopes are all matching. I still have a couple of mismatched Turret / reticle scopes, but my two serious long range precision rifles have matching turrets / reticle scopes on them.

Now you've piqued my interest, FLIGHT762...

How are the reticles and turrets "matched"? I'm guessing some kind of precision grading at the factory or summat?

I have a scope at Leupold's Custom shop right now getting M1 dials installed. Is that considered matching?

TIA

Pryde
06-05-2012, 3:08 PM
Now you've piqued my interest, FLIGHT762...

How are the reticles and turrets "matched"? I'm guessing some kind of precision grading at the factory or summat?

I have a scope at Leupold's Custom shop right now getting M1 dials installed. Is that considered matching?

TIA

Matched as in most modern scopes are using a milradian reticle with milradian adjustments or a MOA reticle with MOA adjustments. Older style scopes were mismatched and had mildots with MOA turrets.

The best way to explain it is imagine that on a Leupold, the mildots is that 1 mil is 1 CM @ 100 yards. But when you spin the knobs, you adjust in inches. So you have a metric reticle with inch adjustments.

If you have a mildot in your Leupold, in order for you to get them to "match" you would need to have the M5 metric knobs installed.

To the OP: If its not too late to change your mind I would get the PST. Leupold variable scopes higher than the 3.5-10x really suck for eye relief (I have used a 6-20 LRT and they are really bad for this). When you dial your magnification up or down the eye relief on the scope changes and you will have to move your head forward or backwards to get a correct sight picture. Most quality scopes don't have that problem.

FLIGHT762
06-05-2012, 3:57 PM
Matched as in most modern scopes are using a milradian reticle with milradian adjustments or a MOA reticle with MOA adjustments. Older style scopes were mismatched and had mildots with MOA turrets.

The best way to explain it is imagine that on a Leupold, the mildots is that 1 mil is 1 CM @ 100 yards. But when you spin the knobs, you adjust in inches. So you have a metric reticle with inch adjustments.

If you have a mildot in your Leupold, in order for you to get them to "match" you would need to have the M5 metric knobs installed.

To the OP: If its not too late to change your mind I would get the PST. Leupold variable scopes higher than the 3.5-10x really suck for eye relief (I have used a 6-20 LRT and they are really bad for this). When you dial your magnification up or down the eye relief on the scope changes and you will have to move your head forward or backwards to get a correct sight picture. Most quality scopes don't have that problem.

Now you've piqued my interest, FLIGHT762...

How are the reticles and turrets "matched"? I'm guessing some kind of precision grading at the factory or summat?

I have a scope at Leupold's Custom shop right now getting M1 dials installed. Is that considered matching?

TIA

Pryde in the top post answered your question pretty well.

When I say " Matching" I'm referring the adjustment dials and the reticle being the the same units of measurement. This doesn't apply to Leupold's regular Duplex type reticle or other reticles that have standard crosshairs.

I'm referring to long range scopes that will have a reticle that has hashes or dots running horizontal and vertically along the crosshairs. These hashes or dots will be in either Millradian (MIL) or Minutes of angle (MOA) measurements. These hashes or dots can be used for range estimation and for hold overs in long range shooting.

Leupold Mark 4 long range scopes are notorious for having mismatched turrets / reticles. They have used a MIL Dot or TMR (mil dot based) reticle and had turrets that were in 1/4 MOA adjustments. It was only recently (the past couple of years) that Leupold finally developed a M 5 turret that is in .1 mil adjustments.

Hamstur
06-05-2012, 8:31 PM
The best way to explain it is imagine that on a Leupold, the mildots is that 1 mil is 1 CM @ 100 yards. But when you spin the knobs, you adjust in inches. So you have a metric reticle with inch adjustments.

Just a correction to the number & representation:
... 1 mil = 10 cm per 100 meters = 9.14 cm per 100 yards = 3.6 in per 100 yard

Compare to having adjustments in MOA where:
... 1 MOA = 1.0472 in per 100 yards, so
... 1/4 MOA adjustments = 0.262 in per 100 yards

So:
... 1 mil = 3.438 MOA

Note to come off as overly technical, but as Mil and MOA are 'angular' measurements, it should always been looked at as "PER" 100 yards not "AT" 100 yards.

Everyone else summed it up but unmatched turret/reticles blows.
- Matched turret: you take a shot, it's 1.5 mil low. You can dial 1.5 mil up (15 notches of 0.1 mil) and you're centered
- Unmatched turret: you take a shot, it's 1.5 mil low. Mentally calculate 1.5 mil as about 5.2 MOA, then dial 5.25 MOA (21 notches of 1/4 MOA) and you're centered.

It's the calculation step nobody gets used to under pressure; given, in a match, your follow up shot will be a holdover cause you don't have time to dial correction.

CK_32
06-05-2012, 8:39 PM
$300 to $700 range go bushnell tactical elite series...

$900-$2500 Night force

$3000+ Premier USO or Ziess

beastie050
06-11-2012, 11:46 PM
I picked up the rifle on my lunch break today :D

mls204
06-12-2012, 12:17 AM
nice, congrats

ExtremeX
06-12-2012, 12:23 AM
SWFA 5-20 combo deal if you have a need for the 1-6x as well. One heck of a deal.

Vortex PST 6-24... cant go wrong with that either. Ive ordered both, but I've been told the SWFA has the edge in optical clarity and durability.

Still waiting on mine so I can do a review on them...

beastie050
06-12-2012, 2:51 PM
My scope has arrived!

wjc
06-12-2012, 3:31 PM
Thanks for the explanation, FLIGHT762!

That "matching" makes a little mote sense to me now.

wjc
06-12-2012, 3:32 PM
My scope has arrived!

niiice!

beastie050
06-12-2012, 3:33 PM
So I bought two bases

Badger Ordnance with 20moa cant
Leupold Mk4 base

which would you guys recommend using?

AlliedArmory
06-12-2012, 3:38 PM
So I bought two bases

Badger Ordnance with 20moa cant
Leupold Mk4 base

which would you guys recommend using?

Badger Ordnance!

Jon Se
06-12-2012, 4:59 PM
What about the Sightron SIII?

Bought a Sightron SIII Mil/Mil 6-24 with Exposed Turrets after debating between it and the Viper PST. Comparing it against my Bushnell 6500 it has better clarity at the higher end and the turrets are much more tactile without any play between clicks. However the body "feels" more fragile just based on touch.

After researching online, it seems the general consensus is that the Viper offers more features (zero stop, FFP) while the Sightron has better glass. Opticstalk.com has several threads on this.