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PandaLuv
06-01-2012, 12:45 AM
BCM
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16.htm

Or New Frontier Armory.
http://newfrontierarmory.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=245_248_282&products_id=33241&zenid=068cc4833f40628ea16596209caf360a



Both are very different, but they are the same price, my budget is $600 for a complete upper(sights, bolt, charging handle etc).

I want a mall ninja rifle, but something I could use if SHTF. Both designs look great, IMO.

Appreciate the input, thanks!

mc21
06-01-2012, 12:47 AM
Who let you out panda? get back to the handgun cage.

G60
06-01-2012, 12:48 AM
Have you looked at PSA uppers?

PandaLuv
06-01-2012, 12:51 AM
Have you looked at PSA uppers?

never heard of them...x

still new to ARs, just picked up my stripped lower.

PandaLuv
06-01-2012, 12:52 AM
Who let you out panda? get back to the handgun cage.

lol! I am more of a handgun shooter, but ummm, I wants an AR!

nick
06-01-2012, 1:05 AM
I have both (except for my NFA upper is 18", but it's the same barrel, just longer), and yes, they are quite different. For the first AR, I'd go with BCM. In fact, I did just that for my first AR, and it's still my favorite.

Other than that, and without going into expensive brands, PSA uppers are pretty good, as are Riflegear's (not sure if they still use DD barrels, but they used to, and the quality of their upper with DD barrel that I have is great). I heard Stags are good (and inexpensive), but I don't have any personal experience with them.

Make sure to get a good LPK, that will save you some drama. Then again, you like drama :p

jeffrice6
06-01-2012, 1:05 AM
I drink the Cool-aid, I dig BCM.... I'm a big fan of their carbine length 14.5" in either standard or LW configuration.

DavidR310
06-01-2012, 1:14 AM
I have that NFA bought in the store while on a vegas trip. Let me know if you want me to take any pics of the upper.

David.

PandaLuv
06-01-2012, 1:17 AM
I have both (except for my NFA upper is 18", but it's the same barrel, just longer), and yes, they are quite different. For the first AR, I'd go with BCM. In fact, I did just that for my first AR, and it's still my favorite.

Other than that, and without going into expensive brands, PSA uppers are pretty good, as are Riflegear's (not sure if they still use DD barrels, but they used to, and the quality of their upper with DD barrel that I have is great). I heard Stags are good (and inexpensive), but I don't have any personal experience with them.

Make sure to get a good LPK, that will save you some drama. Then again, you like drama :p

I am not in OT anymore, so less drama :p I am gonna go with magpul MOE complete LPK. Looks good and the price seems fair.

Anyways, what makes BCM a good starter gun? Is it the simplicity ? Is it because it's more traditional?

PandaLuv
06-01-2012, 1:18 AM
I have that NFA bought in the store while on a vegas trip. Let me know if you want me to take any pics of the upper.

David.

Would love if you could post some.

How is it? Pretty reliable?

nick
06-01-2012, 1:20 AM
I am not in OT anymore, so less drama :p I am gonna go with magpul MOE complete LPK. Looks good and the price seems fair.

Anyways, what makes BCM a good starter gun? Is it the simplicity ? Is it because it's more traditional?

It works, hence you don't have to try to figure out whether you screwed up your first build, or you got a bad upper. And it's a good upper to begin with (you know what they say, I'm not rich enough to buy cheap stuff), and BCM stuff holds value pretty good.

For the LPK, you're talking about the PSA ones, right?

PandaLuv
06-01-2012, 1:25 AM
It works, hence you don't have to try to figure out whether you screwed up your first build, or you got a bad upper. And it's a good upper to begin with (you know what they say, I'm not rich enough to buy cheap stuff), and BCM stuff holds value pretty good.

For the LPK, you're talking about the PSA ones, right?

Pallmeto State? oh, yeah, that one. Anyways, so QC is better. What issues did you have with your NFA?
I like NFA because it has a free floating barrel, no fixed front sight and pretty cool handguard. That's about it really


about their uppers, G60, for some reason they dont appeal to me.

nick
06-01-2012, 1:29 AM
Here's the NFA upper I have. It had a couple of hiccups (failures to feed) in the first 20 rounds or so, no issues since then, other than with Brown Bear ammo. Not a problem for me, since I only use steel-cased ammo to see, if the upper would eat it, but if you intend to shoot Russian ammo, that's a potential concern.

The BCM upper eats the Russian ammo fine.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=152497&stc=1&d=1338539155

DavidR310
06-01-2012, 1:31 AM
Would love if you could post some.

How is it? Pretty reliable?

It is my first build so I can't really compare it to anything. I bought it in Dec. And fired it towards the end of Jan. The very first shots had failures to extract. I emailed NFA and they said to bring it back and they will take care of it. So in Feb, I went back to vegas and they fixed it and it has been fine since. I have about 300 rounds out of it using nothing but PMC and Tula and it handles it fine. Just keep it well lubed.

Edit: I plan to build more AR's so it really isn't a big deal to me. If you plan for this to be a SHTF build and will be your only AR, I would go with BCM.

PandaLuv
06-01-2012, 1:31 AM
Here's the NFA upper I have. It had a couple of hiccups (failures to feed) in the first 20 rounds or so, no issues since then, other than with Brown Bear ammo. Not a problem for me, since I only use steel-cased ammo to see, if the upper would eat it, but if you intend to shoot Russian ammo, that's a potential concern.

The BCM upper eats the Russian ammo fine.



well, I'm planning to reload, but the fact that NFA can't eat steel cased ammo, it shows that the QC isnt that good. I wonder if more people chime in as well


Thanks for sharing, I really appreciate it. Quick question, which eotech model is it and why is it so far? the rifle looks great

PandaLuv
06-01-2012, 1:35 AM
It is my first build so I can't really compare it to anything. I bought it in Dec. And fired it towards the end of Jan. The very first shots had failures to extract. I emailed NFA and they said to bring it back and they will take care of it. So in Feb, I went back to vegas and they fixed it and it has been fine since. I have about 300 rounds out of it using nothing but PMC and Tula and it handles it fine. Just keep it well lubed.

Edit: I plan to build more AR's so it really isn't a big deal to me. If you plan for this to be a SHTF build and will be your only AR, I would go with BCM.

thanks for the info, BCM is looking better. I don't wear a tin foil hat, but if I need to fight, I would want my rifle to work, since I'm selling my AK. ARs will never be as reliable as AKs, but if I can get a more reliable gun for a good price, it would be ideal for me.

nick
06-01-2012, 1:37 AM
well, I'm planning to reload, but the fact that NFA can't eat steel cased ammo, it shows that the QC isnt that good. I wonder if more people chime in as well


Thanks for sharing, I really appreciate it. Quick question, which eotech model is it and why is it so far? the rifle looks great

It might eat other brands of steel-cased ammo, I only tried the lacquered Brown Bear in it, since, in my experience, it's the dirtiest POS ammo you can find this side of the Pacific ocean. The polymer-coated ammo might fare better.

The Eotech is 512.A65, and it's this far forward because that's how I like it. It's just a matter of preference and what your eyes demand.

bigred76
06-01-2012, 1:42 AM
I might point out that all AR barrels are free floated. The only thing that will anchor them is a non-free floating handguard (or piston system, but that's a different story). Almost every aftermarket handguard is free float, so you can knock that off your list. All you'd need for what you want is a quality upper, low pro gas block, and a nice handguard.

PandaLuv
06-01-2012, 1:44 AM
It might eat other brands of steel-cased ammo, I only tried the lacquered Brown Bear in it, since, in my experience, it's the dirtiest POS ammo you can find this side of the Pacific ocean. The polymer-coated ammo might fare better.

The Eotech is 512.A65, and it's this far forward because that's how I like it. It's just a matter of preference and what your eyes demand.

cool beans, i think i will buy that eotech.


one more question, that BCM upper, for me to complete it, I need a charging handle, bolt, bolt carrier and a rear sight. Am I missing anything else?

nick
06-01-2012, 1:51 AM
And a handguard. BCM has complete uppers (with BCG and charging handle) too, which is probably a better idea, since the bolt will already be mated to the barrel extension and tested. Bolts are interchangeable, of course (to a point), but for best results I'd get a complete upper from BCM.

nick
06-01-2012, 1:54 AM
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bolt-Carrier-Group-MPI-Auto-M16-p/bcm%20bolt%20carrier%20group%20auto%20mp.htm

PandaLuv
06-01-2012, 2:00 AM
damn it lol, good to know.i think it will cost more than $600 if I want a good rifle.

nick
06-01-2012, 2:00 AM
Here's the BCM middy upper. It came complete with that BCG I linked to, and I later added BCM Gunfighter Mod. 4 charging handle. Not a single issue with this guy, and it can run dry (not recommended, I just wanted to find out, if it can).

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=152498&stc=1&d=1338541027

nick
06-01-2012, 2:01 AM
damn it lol, good to know.i think it will cost more than $600 if I want a good rifle.

Sadly, yes, but not by much. Now, why would you get a good upper, and then saddle that with a suspect BCG? Might as well go it right, and cry once.

ExtremeX
06-01-2012, 2:01 AM
I was about to instantly vote BCM even without looking at links but I checked them out.

I picked New Frontier even tho I've never heard of them before...

Why.....
I prefer stainless barrels
It comes with a free float hand guard vs non free float with BCM
I prefer a 1-8 twist over 1-7

What I don't like about the New Frontier...
Its a carbine gas system vs middy with BCM. I prefer a middy.

It really comes down to what you value in an upper. You could really go either way. Whats most important to me is the barrel... that's pretty much the heart of an AR upper. After factoring the free float rail it tipped me onto the New Frontier... the barrel is of an unknown origin so who knows what to expect, this is why I custom build everything. From the description it almost sounds like it came from Black Hole Weaponry. If that's the case, I would take it over the BCM without hesitation.

With that said. If this was my wallet making the decision, I wouldn't picked either of those uppers. Neither one of those configurations meet my personal requirements...

DavidR310
06-01-2012, 2:05 AM
The barrel is BHW. :)

nick
06-01-2012, 2:08 AM
I was about to instantly vote BCM even without looking at links but I checked them out.

I picked New Frontier even tho I've never heard of them before...

Why.....
I prefer stainless barrels
It comes with a free float hand guard vs non free float with BCM
I prefer a 1-8 twist over 1-7

What I don't like about the New Frontier...
Its a carbine gas system vs middy with BCM. I prefer a middy.

It really comes down to what you value in an upper. You could really go either way. Whats most important to me is the barrel... that's pretty much the heart of an AR upper. After factoring the free float rail it tipped me onto the New Frontier... the barrel is of an unknown origin so who knows what to expect, this is why I custom build everything. From the description it almost sounds like it came from Black Hole Weaponry. If that's the case, I would take it over the BCM without hesitation.

With that said. If this was my wallet making the decision, I wouldn't picked either of those uppers. Neither one of those configurations meet my personal requirements...

The barrel on the NFA upper actually is from BlackHole Weaponry. At least, it is on mine, and back when I bought it, that's what he advertized it as. Mine's now nitrided, too :D

ExtremeX
06-01-2012, 2:18 AM
The barrel is BHW. :)

I love being right sometimes lol... I know my barrels :43:

I figured it would be from BHW based on the description. Too bad the dudes over at New Frontier didn't get the midlength version. They make them, its not on their website, you just have to ask them for it.

This is the barrel used in the New Frontier upper.

http://www.blackholeweaponry.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=71&osCsid=adffc2a0ad87d9c85b53b7843b37d608

I have 2 barrels from BHW and my 3rd has been on order for a couple weeks... custom Recce profile which is not listed on their website. I like their products, solid accurate barrel without the premium.

ExtremeX
06-01-2012, 2:28 AM
The barrel on the NFA upper actually is from BlackHole Weaponry. At least, it is on mine, and back when I bought it, that's what he advertized it as. Mine's now nitrided, too :D

Very cool.

I have a couple barrels which have gone thought the "Melonite" Salt Bath Nitriding QPQ process... I sent one of my BHW middy barrels out to Burlington Engineering for the "royal treatment" .

I'm all about stainless barrels... BHW makes a great product for the price, its pretty hard to beat for the money. My next barrel which I have not yet ordered, will probably be an SPR profile rifle length made from a Shilen Blank. Not cheap, but all I plan on shooting thought it is match ammo. Should be fun to compare the BHW performance compared to the Shilen.

PandaLuv
06-01-2012, 8:09 AM
Sadly, yes, but not by much. Now, why would you get a good upper, and then saddle that with a suspect BCG? Might as well go it right, and cry once.

Hmm, decisions decisions.

nick
06-01-2012, 9:00 AM
I love being right sometimes lol... I know my barrels :43:

I figured it would be from BHW based on the description. Too bad the dudes over at New Frontier didn't get the midlength version. They make them, its not on their website, you just have to ask them for it.

This is the barrel used in the New Frontier upper.

http://www.blackholeweaponry.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=71&osCsid=adffc2a0ad87d9c85b53b7843b37d608

I have 2 barrels from BHW and my 3rd has been on order for a couple weeks... custom Recce profile which is not listed on their website. I like their products, solid accurate barrel without the premium.

I thought, NFA did use the middy barrels too. My NFA upper is midlength.

21SF
06-01-2012, 9:25 AM
BCM all the way, How long has NFA been around? Serious question, I hate new start ups specially in a flooded market.

G60
06-01-2012, 10:14 AM
well, I'm planning to reload, but the fact that NFA can't eat steel cased ammo, it shows that the QC isnt that good. I wonder if more people chime in as well


You could always use google and expand your search a bit. You're using a sample of one. Problems with crappy ammo has nothing to do with QC, and there are plenty of people with BCM setups (actually, plenty people with every type of setup) that have experienced problems with steel cased ammo. It's hit or miss with ****ty ammunition.

DavidR310
06-01-2012, 11:07 AM
BCM all the way, How long has NFA been around? Serious question, I hate new start ups specially in a flooded market.

BCM was founded in 2003, NFA in 09, 6 years, big deal. NFA has better prices, so in a flooded market, they offer a great lower cost alternative and they stand behind there products 110%. I'm all for this.

ExtremeX
06-01-2012, 12:13 PM
You could always use google and expand your search a bit. You're using a sample of one. Problems with crappy ammo has nothing to do with QC, and there are plenty of people with BCM setups (actually, plenty people with every type of setup) that have experienced problems with steel cased ammo. It's hit or miss with ****ty ammunition.

+1, I will concur

Ive seen these issues range from top of the line AR-15 to bottom barrel setups. This issue seems to be hit or miss and luck of the draw. For example: a good buddy of mine and I both bough a couple off the shelf retail AR-15, both from Stag, and within a couple weeks of each other. Both shot brass cased ammo extremely well. His on the other hand would not cycle wolf ammo, constant stuck cases every shot. My AR ran Wolf like a sewing machine. Its unfortunate but its a reality. There is no guarantee what you get will shoot steel well.

ExtremeX
06-01-2012, 12:21 PM
BCM all the way, How long has NFA been around? Serious question, I hate new start ups specially in a flooded market.

I'm not surprised BCM was going to dominate this pole... there are a lot of BCM users on this board and plenty of cool-aid for everyone, BCM has an excellent reputation but guess what, they are no different than any other shop who assembles uppers. They don't manufacture anything. OEM and Assembly is really what most of their uppers consist of.

Unfortunately there is nothing remotely unique or special about that BCM upper. I like a lot of BCMs products, but seriously... how hard is it to build an upper for an AR-15. Its not exactly rocket science.

Unless the armor at NFA is a complete idiot, and assuming the quality of the components are respectable, I don't see how the quality across these two uppers would be any different from a builders standpoint.

Ive built my own uppers and learned from an experienced armor. With the right tools anyone can put out a quality upper receiver.

With that said... I don't mind "start-ups" It creates competition, gives the consumer options, and keeps prices lower.

Panchira!
06-01-2012, 12:39 PM
I throw my .02 cents in here. If you want a barrel that lasts find one that is cold hammer forged. That will allow the barrel to last longer and take more abuse. I know you mentioned shtf so that's one thing to consider is the barrels life span pick parts that are constantly used and abused that have little to no problems. I know your looking for a complete upper but do the 2 you chose have exactly what you want or is there areas you are compromising?

I built my first ar because I could not find any complete uppers to my specs. Building it is stupid easy. They go together just like legos. So consider building one to your specs too.

Freagan
06-01-2012, 2:52 PM
I still vote for BCM, although I still wish I could find another Sabre Defence upper receiver :( they were top notch and almost entirely made in house

PandaLuv
06-01-2012, 6:18 PM
I think that BCM is more expensive because of the name, especially seems they don't make their own stuff when it comes to fully built upper recievers.

Think Im gonna go with NFA, I can always sell the BCG, then upgrade to something better.

DavidR310
06-01-2012, 6:29 PM
One of the other reasons that I went with NFA is because I figured if anything went wrong, I would be "forced" to take a vegas trip. :43:

jm13690
06-01-2012, 6:39 PM
I have a Spikes and it has ran flawlessly. You may want to take a look at them as another option.

icenix
06-01-2012, 7:24 PM
I didn't read the whole thread, but PSA is Palmetto State Armory. They are very popular right now and seem to put out a high end product. I would consider them for my next build, probably New Frontier (but I am sure they are fine as well).

I went with BCM for mine and I love it. Shoots great and if I can afford it will go with BCM next time as well. BCM also ships VERY fast.

Here is mine :)

For all those that may notice, yes my bipod is on backwards. I don't store it with it on and I just threw it on the other day for the photo, lol.
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee415/icenix25/IMG_2310.jpg

mdib870
06-01-2012, 7:48 PM
bravo company is like a buying a chevy can't go wrong plus their customer service is awesome

ExtremeX
06-01-2012, 8:23 PM
bravo company is like a buying a chevy can't go wrong plus their customer service is awesome

funny you say that lol... My Silverado 1500 water pump just died, it has an oil leak which requires me to drop the transmission, and the window regulator on the driver side needs replacement.

Plus my dealerships service blows and everything is overpriced. :rofl:

But I still love my truck...

FX-05 Xiuhcoatl
06-01-2012, 10:37 PM
BCM

PandaLuv
06-05-2012, 12:03 PM
NFA it is.

jsipe007
06-05-2012, 3:09 PM
I went with Palmetto State Armory... I got the 16in mock dissipator upper and I love it. I payed $550 for the upper with BCH and CH and the barrel is a FN stamped hammer forged chrome lined barrel. the $550 also included a 12 inch magpul handguard. The bcg staking is great and the feed ramps are alighned perfectly. So far I have to say I am one happy customer! If i were choosing between the two brand you posted; however, I would go BCM. Nothing against NFA (i have a g-15 nfa lower on my ar-15) but BCM is top notch

DavidR310
06-05-2012, 4:20 PM
Just a question, but why would you choose a Magpul handguard over a Yankee Hill Machine free float quad rail? Also, the barrel on the NFA is a stainless steel match grade barrel made by Black Hole Weaponry. I would choose that over the FN barrel.