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F8ality
05-31-2012, 7:00 PM
Hey guys is this legal? Being as you cant fire it with the stock folded, isnt California legal rifle length the length of the rifle in working configuration?
(AND JUST TO CLARIFY NO THIS IS NOT MY RIFLE I TOOK THE PICTURE FROM ANOTHER FORUM)

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx166/jasonusvi/mwschop12.jpg

Merc1138
05-31-2012, 9:30 PM
Would depend upon the AR whether or not it could be fired with a folded stock. If it's a basic 5.56 AR, I don't see why it would be a legal issue, however it's going to be a logistical nightmare seeing as how you're going to need the buffer and bolt held in place so they don't fall out. If you're going to do all that just to keep it more compact in a non-operable configuration, just take the upper off.

MrPlink
05-31-2012, 9:35 PM
what Merc said.

Though IIRC didnt Para make a folding stock AR?

Merc1138
05-31-2012, 9:44 PM
what Merc said.

Though IIRC didnt Para make a folding stock AR?

That's why I said it depends upon the AR.
http://www.para-usa.com/new/product_rifle.php

I'm sure there are others as well. Then of course with a rimfire upper or conversion you can using a folding stock as well and still have an operating rifle.

Josh3239
05-31-2012, 9:54 PM
Would depend upon the AR whether or not it could be fired with a folded stock. If it's a basic 5.56 AR, I don't see why it would be a legal issue, however it's going to be a logistical nightmare seeing as how you're going to need the buffer and bolt held in place so they don't fall out. If you're going to do all that just to keep it more compact in a non-operable configuration, just take the upper off.

The manufacturer pictured does fold, cannot fire while folded, and by design the buffer assembly and bolt are held in place.

what Merc said.

Though IIRC didnt Para make a folding stock AR?

Yes. Para makes a direct impingment AR that relocates the recoil spring and makes it so the bolt doesn't have to travel through the extention tube to allow for a folding stock.

Merc1138
05-31-2012, 9:59 PM
The manufacturer pictured does fold, cannot fire while folded, and by design the buffer assembly and bolt are held in place.


I didn't say it was impossible, I was stating that for the cost(or effort) it's pointless when you can just pull the takedown pins on any AR. The OP can spend his money however he wants for all I care.

Josh3239
05-31-2012, 10:23 PM
:confused: And I was just addressing your point about the potential of the bolt and buffer to fall out. In this particular unit it is designed not to.

F8ality
05-31-2012, 10:53 PM
So it is legal to have a folding stock and a rifle that is below the 31" limit as long as it is not able to fire correct? Just don't want to steer this guy in the wrong direction

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Merc1138
06-01-2012, 1:07 AM
:confused: And I was just addressing your point about the potential of the bolt and buffer to fall out. In this particular unit it is designed not to.


I'm seeing a problem with this particular unit. Just because the bolt cannot cycle, does not necessarily mean it can't be fired. Just based on the picture the OP provided, and what you said, the bolt is still locked forward and could have a round chambered. I'm not seeing how it could stop the operator from firing a shot.

So it is legal to have a folding stock and a rifle that is below the 31" limit as long as it is not able to fire correct? Just don't want to steer this guy in the wrong direction

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

The limit is 30", and from what you guys have described and that picture, that AR may still be able to fire. Just take the upper off of the thing, problem solved.

nick
06-01-2012, 1:17 AM
One learns something new every day. That Para rifle is neat.

Arisaka
06-01-2012, 8:29 AM
Yes OP if the rifle cannot be fired in folded position, it can fold to under 30".

Decoy453
06-01-2012, 9:37 AM
If this is the device you are using http://www.lawtactical.com/ then it looks like it can fire around if a round is in the chamber.

bohoki
06-01-2012, 10:12 AM
Yes OP if the rifle cannot be fired in folded position, it can fold to under 30".

i'm betting it would go off if you pulled the trigger

it is an interesting case as it would not be semi-automatic when folded (it would be self destructive)

i dont see how they have any lockout when folded

LNTT
06-01-2012, 10:18 AM
If it is the Law Tactical folding stock mechanism that just came out, then I feel as though it'd be really gray. Although the stock allows the rifle to be fired, when the stock is folded, it turns the rifle into a single shot (manually operated?), not a semi-auto. Since the OAL law is 26" for these non-semiautomatic rifles, if the barrel is around 16" and their stock extension long enough, shouldn't it be legal in a sense?

Also, I believe the Law Tactical stock has some sort of "retainer" that allows the rifle to be fired folded, but the bolt does not move (something like a bar that protrudes out when you fold the stock, preventing the BCG from falling out)

Merc1138
06-01-2012, 11:10 AM
Yeah, I guess it would be a >26" single shot that can turn into a >30" semi auto.

Of course that would require the extension to be long enough, and I'm not sure that it would be.

soopafly
06-01-2012, 11:32 AM
The Para-USA TTR is a re-branded ZM Weapons rifle:
http://www.zmweapons.com/lr_rifles.htm
http://zmweapons.com/LRs.jpg

Merc1138
06-01-2012, 11:39 AM
Why is the rear site on them backwards?

stix213
06-01-2012, 11:50 AM
Are you sure they can't fire when folded, or just that you can't cycle the next round? Huge difference.

edit: just noticed this has already been mentioned.

Now if it won't cycle, would it then be limited to minimum 26" OAL until unfolded?

Merc1138
06-01-2012, 11:56 AM
Are you sure they can't fire when folded, or just that you can't cycle the next round? Huge difference.

edit: just noticed this has already been mentioned.

Now if it won't cycle, would it then be limited to minimum 26" OAL until unfolded?

Assuming that the rifle is actually 26" long while it's folded, it would be fine. However with a 16" barrel and typical length flash hider, you'd be close and possibly short.

Reverend Clint
06-01-2012, 1:05 PM
wtf is the point...

stix213
06-01-2012, 2:45 PM
wtf is the point...

You wouldn't want to be able to put a full CA legal length AR rifle into a tennis racket bag?

Also seems like it could make an AR pistol more easy to carry.

Thordo
06-01-2012, 3:29 PM
[QUOTE=F8ality;8678090]Hey guys is this legal? Being as you cant fire it with the stock folded, isnt California legal rifle length the length of the rifle in working configuration?
(AND JUST TO CLARIFY NO THIS IS NOT MY RIFLE I TOOK THE PICTURE FROM ANOTHER FORUM)

Do you have a pic of the arse end? Just engineers curiosity.

Thordo

h0use
06-01-2012, 4:48 PM
i was wondering how does the folding stock work on the ar15?

LNTT
06-01-2012, 5:05 PM
i was wondering how does the folding stock work on the ar15?

It just adds a hinge and a latch where the castle nut would be attaching the buffer tube to the receiver end. So the rifle wouldn't actually function apart from firing one chambered round since the AR requires a buffer tube to work.

Jpach
06-01-2012, 7:09 PM
Pretty interesting design, I like it.

And is that an LMT 308 upper on an SR-25 lower? Please post a link to where you found that pic :)