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Personmans
05-31-2012, 2:09 PM
I am curious what the consensus is on a 15-22 vs an AR15 with .22LR upper. The 15-22 is far less expensive, but does it feel that way compared to an AR? Perhaps more importantly, will it shoot that way?
I am specifically looking at the CMMG .22LR upper (not conversion) vs the Mossberg or M&P 15-22.

Considering I have a dedicated .223/5.56 AR15 and want a .22LR for lots of target practice without hurting the wallet too much on ammo. Additionally, I have an 'extra' AR15 (.223/5.56) minus a BCG. I know the cheapest option is to get a conversion kit, but I would rather get a dedicated upper or sell the AR15 parts and get a 15-22.

joker70
05-31-2012, 2:20 PM
New Frontier lower + CMMG Evolution upper = same price as an M&P 15/22. Plus you can swap your 5.56 and 22lr uppers back and forth (after you buy your 5.56 BCG). I have a radlock on my lower. Eventually, I'll probably build a dedicated lower for my 5.56 but I'm having too much fun right now. That and trying to buy as much .223 as I can find.

Personmans
05-31-2012, 2:29 PM
Thanks for the input. I may have not been clear above, but I have a full AR15 that is dedicated to .223/5.56 plus a second .223/5.56 AR15 missing only the BCG.

So if I want to go the AR route, I'd probably sell my second upper and buy a .22LR upper to replace. This would probably be a wash as far as $$. Alternatively I could sell the complete AR (minus BCG and maybe lower receiver) and buy a 15-22, which would probably be similar cost wise, maybe few bucks cheaper.

I'm interested in knowing which one performs better and pros/cons of going the two different routes.

Speedpower
05-31-2012, 2:48 PM
I would go for the M&P 15-22, it's a cheaper route and the one thing I like is that it holds the bolt open after the last shot by itself, I have the Tactical Solutions upper but the bolt is held open by the magazine follower after the last shot.

loosewreck
05-31-2012, 2:51 PM
Its best you check the rimfire forum, this topic is discussed regularly.

I personally went with the 15/22, and am extremely pleased.

joker70
05-31-2012, 3:32 PM
Performance, I'm guessing is about even. Both barrels are 1/12 twist. I forgot to mention that the CMMG upper does not come with sights.

If I were in your situation I'd sell your partially completed AR and buy the S&W.

drifter2be
05-31-2012, 3:38 PM
I sold my 15-22 after buying an AR because it felt like holding a toy compared to the read deal. Too much plastic and it weighs a few pounds less than the real deal as well. Didn't translate to being a proper training tool, which is what I would want a 22lr ar platform for.

Personmans
05-31-2012, 3:43 PM
I sold my 15-22 after buying an AR because it felt like holding a toy compared to the read deal. Too much plastic and it weighs a few pounds less than the real deal as well. Didn't translate to being a proper training tool, which is what I would want a 22lr ar platform for.


Awesome. This was my main concern. I want to train for the AR platform, so using a lighter, different form factor firearm may not give me what I'm looking for.

Thanks :cool2:

RobGR
05-31-2012, 3:55 PM
Considering you already have a lower, just get an upper. I do love my dedicated 15/22 though, it's a blast to shoot, not to mention the cost of 22lr. The Sig 522 is also a great shooter.

IPSICK
05-31-2012, 4:18 PM
Not a fan of S&W but I hear nothing but good things about the 15-22 from training instructors.

That being said, I have and love my Nordic Components NC-22 (http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/nordic-components-nc22/) dedicated upper. It costs about $80-100 more than the CMMG upper but it is built solid with high quality components.

Here is a pic of it with my JP-15 upper above it.

http://i52.tinypic.com/fxxjwj.jpg

Travis590A1
05-31-2012, 4:53 PM
Had a smithy 15-22 and sold it. Had no problems it just felt to much like an airsoft rifle. It chewed up 1,000 rounds like skittles though so +1 on the reliability.

ExtremeX
05-31-2012, 5:06 PM
I'm all about the dedicated upper or conversion kit from a training standpoint. There are many advantage to be had...

You will see a bigger advantage if you also have a tricked out lower. I like using my existing stock, grip, and Geissele SD-E trigger. Conversion kit allows you to also train with existing optics.

I also have a dedicated .22.... and its my Ruger 10/22. Which is more of a cheap plinker toy... AR .22 is a training aid.

IPSICK
05-31-2012, 5:49 PM
I'm all about the dedicated upper or conversion kit from a training standpoint. There are many advantage to be had...

You will see a bigger advantage if you also have a tricked out lower. I like using my existing stock, grip, and Geissele SD-E trigger. Conversion kit allows you to also train with existing optics.

I also have a dedicated .22.... and its my Ruger 10/22. Which is more of a cheap plinker toy... AR .22 is a training aid.

Nordic also makes AR conversions for the 10/22 (http://shop.nordiccomp.com/AR22_c5.htm).

http://shop.nordiccomp.com/images/1293142647617-609446919.jpeg

ExtremeX
05-31-2012, 6:13 PM
Nordic also makes AR conversions for the 10/22 (http://shop.nordiccomp.com/AR22_c5.htm).

http://shop.nordiccomp.com/images/1293142647617-609446919.jpeg

I know but I think you failed to see my point... 10/22 in a pseudo AR frame isn't a training aid. Its still the 10/22 action and trigger. Doesn't matter how you dress it up, end of the day its still a 10/22. Don't wrap crap in cookies and call it an ice cream sandwich.

When people spend money on their lowers and they end up costing more than some complete AR-15s, it would be wise take the route of a dedicated upper or drop in .22 conversion kit.

My point being, my 10/22 was just a toy, I see no reason to play AR dress up to create something it could never be. A dedicated .22 (15-22) is also just a toy to me. It serves me no real purpose as a training aid because even the weight, balance, trigger, optics are all different. The closest I can get to the REAL DEAL is the .22 conversion because it allows me to train with my actual rifle at a cheaper cost.

If the training aspect isn't a big deal, then really it may or may not be right choice for you or the OP.

IPSICK
05-31-2012, 6:24 PM
You didn't express your point very well until you wrote the above.

I'm just trying to show more options to the OP.

ExtremeX
06-01-2012, 11:36 AM
I probably could have been clearer in my original post but I figured most people would catch my drift about the training tool aspect.

End of the day, it just comes down to what you want to do with it. If you want a cool accurate fun/plinking rifle that looks like an AR, then there are LOTS of options, I have no problems with options, I like them. To be honest its why I prefer my 10/22 over the AR for plinking. Its purpose built to shoot the .22. , so is the 15-22 or dedicated AR upper.

The AR .22 conversion kit isn't as accurate but its good enough to train with. The twist rate isn't correct for the .22 LR. But I didn't buy that as a plinker.

My argument in a nut shell comes down to intended use and buying the right tools for the job.

MrPlink
06-01-2012, 12:21 PM
Awesome. This was my main concern. I want to train for the AR platform, so using a lighter, different form factor firearm may not give me what I'm looking for.

Thanks :cool2:


ever been in a fire fight?

how 'bout just a fist fight?

Maybe even softball game where the score was REALLY close?

When you have adrenaline going, it is not going to matter how heavy or light your firearm is, you will not notice.

If you think a weight difference is going to "hinder your training" my advice to you is: The malls are perfectly safe without you :ninja:

The War Wagon
06-01-2012, 12:31 PM
Dedicated .22 AR.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/100_7624.jpg
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/100_7631.jpg


Feels right, handles right, weighs right - GREAT for CQB practice, and if you NEED another AR, you pop the .22 upper off, pop the 5.56 upper on, and you're GTG! :cool:

RobGR
06-01-2012, 1:13 PM
The War Wagon, what's up with the front sight, is that collapsible?

Rail? Vltor, Samson or mega...

Home build?

Digging the Ace stock too.