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bubbapug1
05-31-2012, 11:50 AM
give it up....no ones changing anyones opinions here

InGrAM
05-31-2012, 12:09 PM
I don't have a problem with it. If you do, that is your problem.

OleCuss
05-31-2012, 12:09 PM
I recommend remaining a member of the NRA. The NRA is essential for our political survival and without adequate membership it will no longer be able to help us with the necessary political tasks.

And yes, their ads can be annoying. I find them very simple to deal with: The stuff that is mailed goes in the trash unopened - no problem. If I find I'm getting tons of e-mail I just set up a filter and their missives go straight into the e-mail trash without my ever seeing them. And I don't visit their site often at all.

So I make sure I'm a member and I generally ignore them thereafter. Maybe that's not the right way to do it, but if you are too irritated by the fundraising and political appeals - it's better than not being a member.

Farrier-1
05-31-2012, 12:10 PM
Scare tactics. The leftist pull the smae crap. Although they have cute lil Polar bears and baby seals in their ads.

rumblebee
05-31-2012, 12:16 PM
No NRA = a very bad thing. I believe that even Kes wrote that supporting the NRA is of utmost importance (if I end up banned, pls disregard) ;)...if you have to pick between CG's and the NRA for donations\membership, choose the NRA (just my .02). :cheers2:

unusedusername
05-31-2012, 12:16 PM
What email address sent that to you? That does not look like a legit NRA mailing to me, more like an advertisment.

winnre
05-31-2012, 12:19 PM
The NRA sent me the same stuff all day long, I was tired of it. I opted out but that did not slow down the mailings. Then my name got on other lists and there seemed no way out.

I wrote the NRA and told them I wanted to quit. Apparently quitting the NRA is not as easy as joining. They wanted a letter saying why I want out, and it had to be witnessed by another, and some other dramatic stuff I cannot recall.

I was livid. I wrote back and said whatever I get in the mail next asking for money, well I will send that money to the Brady Group and give the NRA credit as the donor. Sure enough I got another mailing so I sent the $25 to the Brady Group and sent a copy of the check to the NRA.

Mailings ceased overnight!!!!

451040
05-31-2012, 12:27 PM
The only thing I receive via email is American Rifleman. :shrug:









http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac284/451040/dur.gif


:rolleyes:

bubbapug1
05-31-2012, 12:27 PM
The problem I have is with the constant stream of antigovernment, anti-liberal, anti-science, anti - anything but FOX BS...if you pump enough crap into the vacuums heads of most americans you can actually create a problem which isn't there, or hang the folks who actually are trying to solve it.

Its kind of like this saying:

“Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.”\

I'd hate to see a bunch of fellow NRA members execute a government overthrow only to see Jamie Dimon and company in charge...and he's good buddies with Mayor Bloomfield, who I would like to remind everyone who reads this, is not really a calgunner or gun lover.

dustoff31
05-31-2012, 12:28 PM
What email address sent that to you? That does not look like a legit NRA mailing to me, more like an advertisment.

It is advertising. It says so right in the text.

Unite In Action has acquired the services............they have agreed to provide their services to our members at half off the regular price.

Does the OP get so worked up about those offering similar training/courses right here on GCN?

451040
05-31-2012, 12:33 PM
http://freeemoticonsandsmileys.com/emoticons/Mood%20Emoticons/blahblah.gif


:laugh:

Now you're just posting nonsense.

the86d
05-31-2012, 12:33 PM
I have never received more "Donation this" or "Donation that" calls, nor so much e-mail, OR trial memberships and free "lookie-loo-at-this-free-temorary DVD" and you just return-it-later if you don't want to pay stuff in the mail as I have since joining.

I do think they get people riled-up, however much of it is a genuine concern of mine too...

clutchy
05-31-2012, 12:35 PM
ask them to put you on a do not mail list and send them $20...

HowardW56
05-31-2012, 12:46 PM
I love guns, but I hate the NRA. Since signing in to the NRA with my membr number on line I have been deluged with propaganda like this gem I just got....

THE COMING INSURRECTION
HOW TO PROTECT YOUR FAMILY

The extreme Left brazenly brags about their violent agenda and blatantly published a detailed plan for chaos across America. Liberal anarchists appear intent on making good on their promises to execute these plans for revolution here on American shores but you and your family can be prepared.

DONATE NOW & GET THE TRAINING YOU NEED TO STAY SAFE

Unite In Action has acquired the services of the Nation's premier self and family defense trainers.
E3 Core will provide a 48 hour "Urban Escape and Evasion Exercise"
that will teach you the skills needed to keep safe.

Occupiers, Anarchists and so called "New Black Panthers" have started a terror campaign on our streets. It began last fall, with the riots and burning of Oakland, CA; massive assaults on police officers in Denver, Atlanta and elsewhere. It stepped up with union thugs knocking hapless grandmothers to the ground and beating black conservatives senseless. It continued with the New Black Panther "revolution training" preparing their members to use bat, clubs, guns and any weapon they can find. It continues still with the gang beatings in the name of "Trevon." And most recently the Anarchists have launched their particular brand of insurrection at the recent NATO Conference in Chicago.

DARK DAYS ARE COMING & WE MUST BE PREPARED
SELECT HERE TO SCHEDULE YOUR E3 CORE TRAINING
Register for the 48 hour "Urban Escape and Evasion Exercise"
that will teach you the skills needed to keep safe.

We have all spent time discussing the possibilities of what is to come - be it economic crash or violence in our streets - NOW WE MUST PROTECT OURSELVES AND OUR FAMILIES.

Unite In Action has acquired the services of the Nation's premier self and family defense trainers, E3 Core. E3 Core as been mentioned on numerous news shows, including Glenn Beck's GBTV. A mix of highly trained men and women, E3 Core has provided security and training for Presidential candidates, conservative celebrities and foreign dignitaries. And now, because the folks at E3Core are true patriots concerned with the direction of our country and the safety of the people within the Liberty movement, they have agreed to provide their services to our members at half off the regular price.

JOIN US AND GET SAFE - SELECT HERE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS SPECIAL OFFER
Register for the 48 hour "Urban Escape and Evasion Exercise"
that will teach you the skills needed to keep safe.


End of email...at least what I will post here.

While I don't disagree that an insurection is possible, I am not sure I want to be on the side fighting for large corporations and political croniesm...the argument is not so black and white as the NRA paints it, and the NRA has definitly taken sides with the large powers that be...

What does this have to do with 2A rights and why is the NRA pushing such a radical agenda?? Is it to scare the population? Mislead the population? Sell the population on more guns?

I'm going to cancel my membership and stick with a less radical group which actually does some grassroots work...like calguns.

That doesn't look like anything I have ever received from the NRA...

bwiese
05-31-2012, 1:06 PM
What email address sent that to you? That does not look like a legit NRA mailing to me, more like an advertisment.

Correct. The OP should STFU as he has no idea this is an NRA mailing etc.

And this easily could be a byproduct of an NRA advertiser selling his own names to groups like this.

NRA is very careful to quell insurrectionist talk. If you go to an NRA meeting or an FNRA dinner and you see everyone do the Pledge of Allegiance
and stand at attention for the Star Spangled Banner, that's there for a reason - nobody can say it's an insurrectionist or terrorist gathering.

im2ninja4u
05-31-2012, 1:09 PM
I get the same crap. It's been rustling my jimmies so I just toss out all NRA junk mail now.

bwiese
05-31-2012, 1:10 PM
The NRA may sound pro gun and pro freedom, but actually they are supporting facism if you really look at the agenda and rhetoric of the people they support...and those same folks are smart enough to try to paint themselves as patriots, but who have looted the treasury the last decade.

Pure, uninformed drivel. The OP doesn't understand How To Win.

NRA supports those who have voted pro-gun.
NRA opposes those who have voted anti-gun.

Sometimes there's a bit of nuance as the #1 goal is to help a (relatively) pro-gun pol - even if not perfect - stay in place to avoid risk of an antigun pol taking a seat. There's a bit of nuance there (think Harry Reid).

The fact that generally pro-gun pols skew certain ways and antis the other are trends that are byproducts.

For the NRA to not support those who have supported pro-gun causes completely negates ANY influence. The only influence a politician knows is that someone either (1) Helped him win, or (2) helped or made him lose.

SkyMag68
05-31-2012, 1:13 PM
The only stuff I received in the mail from NRA are magazine,membership renewal once in awhile letter from NRA-ILA.

vincewarde
05-31-2012, 1:25 PM
1) The pasted email is totally out of character with the NRA's typical statements - in fact I would report it to them.

2) NRA membership is used as a gauge of support for the 2nd Amendment by most politicians - the higher the numbers the more support they see. If you don't join, aren't included in those numbers.

3) The NRA has caught tons of flak for backing incumbent Dems who are pro-2nd Amendment. (Remember the Harry Reid uproar?) They are truly a one issue organization.

4) The NRA is very good at lobbying. They are not as good at legal action - but it can be argued that their pragmatic argument before SCOTUS won McDonald.

5) Finally, while the emails and junk mail can be annoying, please consider the fact that these arrangements provide a revenue stream to the NRA.

P.W.
05-31-2012, 1:27 PM
Even if they did send that type of mail out, you have a trash folder in your email for a reason. I don't see the logic where one would base their opinions of an
organization solely off of junk mail they receive in an email, :shrug:

hvengel
05-31-2012, 1:28 PM
I also agree that this does NOT look like anything I have ever gotten from the NRA even in a remote way. I have been a life member for decades and have seen so many NRA mailings that I can't even guess how many I have gotten so I have seen about everything they have mailed to members.

Yes the NRA does send a lot of junk mail to it's members but it does not look anything like what the OP posted and this posting appears to be total FUD to me. Either the OP is faking it or he got an email with a spoofed senders address.

With all due respect to the poster who sent a donation to the Brady's because he didn't like getting NRA mailings - Are you out of your f'ing mind? Please explain how that makes any sense at all for someone who claims to be a gun rights supporter. Wait - don't bother it makes almost as much sense as voting for a far left Democrat because the Republicans have been spending too much.

Muscles Glasses
05-31-2012, 1:29 PM
Correct. The OP should STFU as he has no idea this is an NRA mailing etc.

And this easily could be a byproduct of an NRA advertiser selling his own names to groups like this.

Agreed. I have never received anything like this from the NRA. I don't think they would risk ruining their reputation by coming off as such an extremist group like that.

1859sharps
05-31-2012, 1:37 PM
all you complaining about spam emails.....

you do realize it's SUPER easy to setup a Yahoo or Google Email account right? just setup a second account, then use this account for when ever you sigh up for something that requires an email and you think is going to send you mail in high volume. the other option...configure some folders and mail rules to pre sort incoming mail for you. then at your leisure clean out the folder you sent all the "nra" mail to.

Save your "primary" account for sending between friends/family...presto no spam ever from anyone...ok the odd piece makes it through from time to time that is rare.

anytime I check my "spam" account, I never see anything from the NRA like posted here. I see lots of Emails, but they are clearly from the NRA and very easily deleted.

I think some people just don't understand Email and make mountain out of a mole hill.

Oh and the NRA is SUPER easy to quite...just don't renew. No fuss, no muss...but then some people just need the drama.

sending money to Brady's because you were upset with the NRA....well if I said what I really think I would be banned...lets just leave it as that has to be one of the stupidest things I have read all year.

P.W.
05-31-2012, 1:38 PM
I was livid. I wrote back and said whatever I get in the mail next asking for money, well I will send that money to the Brady Group and give the NRA credit as the donor. Sure enough I got another mailing so I sent the $25 to the Brady Group and sent a copy of the check to the NRA.

Mailings ceased overnight!!!!
:confused:
How in the hell can you justify sending any monetary sum to the Brady group, even if it was a stunt to get your mailings to stop. This is the most absurd thought process ever, Yeah lets support our 2A rights by sending in checks to the Brady group because I received some junk mail !

1859sharps
05-31-2012, 1:42 PM
NRA is very careful to quell insurrectionist talk. If you go to an NRA meeting or an FNRA dinner and you see everyone do the Pledge of Allegiance
and stand at attention for the Star Spangled Banner, that's there for a reason - nobody can say it's an insurrectionist or terrorist gathering.

In addition most RATIONAL people DON'T WANT an insurrection anyway.

HowardW56
05-31-2012, 1:57 PM
The NRA sent me the same stuff all day long, I was tired of it. I opted out but that did not slow down the mailings. Then my name got on other lists and there seemed no way out.

I wrote the NRA and told them I wanted to quit. Apparently quitting the NRA is not as easy as joining. They wanted a letter saying why I want out, and it had to be witnessed by another, and some other dramatic stuff I cannot recall.

I was livid. I wrote back and said whatever I get in the mail next asking for money, well I will send that money to the Brady Group and give the NRA credit as the donor. Sure enough I got another mailing so I sent the $25 to the Brady Group and sent a copy of the check to the NRA.

Mailings ceased overnight!!!!

Do you generally make it a practice to shoot yourself in the foot?

Why don't you just drive down to the police station and tell them to take your guns and arrest you for owning them...

While you're at it, you could confess to killing the Black Delilah, and being the second shooter in the JFK assassination...

Don't worry, the doctors won't hurt you when they examine you... It's just a 5150 commitment... Enjoy the little pills and juice they give you...

SilverTauron
05-31-2012, 2:04 PM
While I don't disagree that an insurection is possible, I am not sure I want to be on the side fighting for large corporations and political croniesm...the argument is not so black and white as the NRA paints it, and the NRA has definitly taken sides with the large powers that be...

What does this have to do with 2A rights and why is the NRA pushing such a radical agenda?? Is it to scare the population? Mislead the population? Sell the population on more guns?

I'm going to cancel my membership and stick with a less radical group which actually does some grassroots work...like calguns.

These accusations are false.

In order for the NRA to fight for YOUR rights, they have to build relationships with corporations and government. If the NRA doesn't do it, the Brady Bunch will-and the nations of Britain and Australia stand as examples of what happens in a land without an NRA.

winnre
05-31-2012, 2:07 PM
:confused:
How in the hell can you justify sending any monetary sum to the Brady group, even if it was a stunt to get your mailings to stop. This is the most absurd thought process ever, Yeah lets support our 2A rights by sending in checks to the Brady group because I received some junk mail !

I warned them, seems they did not care. The NRA knew their move would end up with $ going against them, yet they sent me junk mail anyway. They are simply after the almighty dollar and are using us as chumps to get there.

If it is any consolation, the Brady Group has sent me plenty of mailers since then, easily negating any funds they got from me in the first place.

devilinblack
05-31-2012, 2:37 PM
:confused:
How in the hell can you justify sending any monetary sum to the Brady group, even if it was a stunt to get your mailings to stop. This is the most absurd thought process ever, Yeah lets support our 2A rights by sending in checks to the Brady group because I received some junk mail !

Glad I'm not the only one that read that and thought it was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen posted on calguns.

Way to go. :facepalm:

Dreaded Claymore
05-31-2012, 2:48 PM
The problem I have is with the constant stream of antigovernment, anti-liberal, anti-science, anti - anything but FOX BS...if you pump enough crap into the vacuums heads of most americans you can actually create a problem which isn't there, or hang the folks who actually are trying to solve it.

Its kind of like this saying:

“Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.”\

I'd hate to see a bunch of fellow NRA members execute a government overthrow only to see Jamie Dimon and company in charge...and he's good buddies with Mayor Bloomfield, who I would like to remind everyone who reads this, is not really a calgunner or gun lover.

Think people...think. If we go out in the street in to fight an insurrection which isn't really there, who will take over eventually?

The NRA is beating a drum reminiscent of the Brown shirters, and the Nazi's banned all weapons. The NRA may sound pro gun and pro freedom, but actually they are supporting facism if you really look at the agenda and rhetoric of the people they support...and those same folks are smart enough to try to paint themselves as patriots, but who have looted the treasury the last decade.

I wish they would go back to supporting guns and get out of general politics...its a slippery slope, and one which will marginalize them eventually, along with our guns rights...

Blowback is a *****....

(emphasis added)

What on Earth are you talking about? The NRA supports people with facist agendas? Thanks for invoking Godwin's Law.

And what do you mean, they should get out of general politics? I'll bet money that you can't find a single instance of the NRA supporting anyone on any basis other than guns and 2A rights. Even though the NRA's base does have lots of social conservatives, the NRA itself is dead nuts single issue.

Glock22Fan
05-31-2012, 2:58 PM
I also agree that this does NOT look like anything I have ever gotten from the NRA even in a remote way. I have been a life member for decades and have seen so many NRA mailings that I can't even guess how many I have gotten so I have seen about everything they have mailed to members.

Yes the NRA does send a lot of junk mail to it's members but it does not look anything like what the OP posted and this posting appears to be total FUD to me. Either the OP is faking it or he got an email with a spoofed senders address.

With all due respect to the poster who sent a donation to the Brady's because he didn't like getting NRA mailings - Are you out of your f'ing mind? Please explain how that makes any sense at all for someone who claims to be a gun rights supporter. Wait - don't bother it makes almost as much sense as voting for a far left Democrat because the Republicans have been spending too much.

:confused:
How in the hell can you justify sending any monetary sum to the Brady group, even if it was a stunt to get your mailings to stop. This is the most absurd thought process ever, Yeah lets support our 2A rights by sending in checks to the Brady group because I received some junk mail !

Do you generally make it a practice to shoot yourself in the foot?

Why don't you just drive down to the police station and tell them to take your guns and arrest you for owning them...

While you're at it, you could confess to killing the Black Delilah, and being the second shooter in the JFK assassination...

Don't worry, the doctors won't hurt you when they examine you... It's just a 5150 commitment... Enjoy the little pills and juice they give you...

(emphasis added)

What on Earth are you talking about? The NRA supports people with facist agendas? Thanks for invoking Godwin's Law.

And what do you mean, they should get out of general politics? I'll bet money that you can't find a single instance of the NRA supporting anyone on any basis other than guns and 2A rights. Even though the NRA's base does have lots of social conservatives, the NRA itself is dead nuts single issue.

and other posts in similar vein, + 1,000,000+

And some of you other posters, especially the OP -

Total FAIL!

rumblebee
05-31-2012, 3:01 PM
the Brady Group junk mail is better than the NRA junk mail :confused: ;)

I'm going to donate another 50.00 to the NRA just for the hell of it and the Brady Group can suk it :patriot:

I warned them, seems they did not care. The NRA knew their move would end up with $ going against them, yet they sent me junk mail anyway. They are simply after the almighty dollar and are using us as chumps to get there.

If it is any consolation, the Brady Group has sent me plenty of mailers since then, easily negating any funds they got from me in the first place.

clutchy
05-31-2012, 3:02 PM
I warned them, seems they did not care. The NRA knew their move would end up with $ going against them, yet they sent me junk mail anyway. They are simply after the almighty dollar and are using us as chumps to get there.

If it is any consolation, the Brady Group has sent me plenty of mailers since then, easily negating any funds they got from me in the first place.

you're kindof a loose cannon aren't you? :p

this is the 2nd somewhat excessive action i've seen from you. :D

bubbapug1
05-31-2012, 3:03 PM
I called and spoke to the NRA. They were very careful to claim they NEVER sold my Email address to anyone, but when pressed they did confirm they do "share" email addresses with some affilliates.

bruss01
05-31-2012, 3:04 PM
Those who say this e-mail does not "sound" like the NRA are correct IMHO.

However, I would much rather be receiving this kind of e-mail from the NRA because it is actually focused on the core of the purpose of the Second Amendment - defense of self, family and country. Unlike all the drivel spouted by the NRA over the past decades about "sport" or "hunting".

I do get tired of some of the knee-jerk anti-Obama rhetoric that is constantly spouted from the NRA and other sources. No, I'm not a fan of the man... and I sure don't think he's a friend of the 2nd Amendment... but I'm not thrilled with any of the alternatives either (at least, none of the VIABLE alternatives). Obama is not the problem, Obama is a SYMPTOM and that symptom will be continued more-or-less by whoever comes after him, because even if we change the man at the helm, the boat is still headed into the ice floe at ramming speed. It ain't going to end well, regardless of who happens to be standing there when the inevitable finally happens.

I'm happy to see the NRA push legislation. I'm less happy to see them push candidates for office with whom I have significant differences of opinion on policy. Guns are important - but they're not the only thing that is important. I'd love to be a single-issue voter but my conscience won't let me. It's a tough world out there, and I deal as best I can. Sometimes that doesn't make me smile. That's life. Sometimes it sucks and you can't have it both ways.

If there are people reading the e-mail who actually stop and think for a moment, that the world is becoming a scary place where previously unimaginable things are actually happening, and maybe me and my family should up our game a bit... maybe that's a GOOD thing?

Flopper
05-31-2012, 3:05 PM
If it is any consolation, the Brady Group has sent me plenty of mailers since then, easily negating any funds they got from me in the first place.

If only there were a stunt you could pull to make those mailers stop. . .

ConcernedCitizen
05-31-2012, 3:06 PM
If it is any consolation, the Brady Group has sent me plenty of mailers since then, easily negating any funds they got from me in the first place.

So now you get junk mail from the Brady Group instead of the NRA and you're happy?
Now that's funny!

HowardW56
05-31-2012, 3:13 PM
The NRA sent me the same stuff all day long, I was tired of it. I opted out but that did not slow down the mailings. Then my name got on other lists and there seemed no way out.

I wrote the NRA and told them I wanted to quit. Apparently quitting the NRA is not as easy as joining. They wanted a letter saying why I want out, and it had to be witnessed by another, and some other dramatic stuff I cannot recall.

I was livid. I wrote back and said whatever I get in the mail next asking for money, well I will send that money to the Brady Group and give the NRA credit as the donor. Sure enough I got another mailing so I sent the $25 to the Brady Group and sent a copy of the check to the NRA.

Mailings ceased overnight!!!!

I warned them, seems they did not care. The NRA knew their move would end up with $ going against them, yet they sent me junk mail anyway. They are simply after the almighty dollar and are using us as chumps to get there.

If it is any consolation, the Brady Group has sent me plenty of mailers since then, easily negating any funds they got from me in the first place.

These posts remind me of a fisherman in a row boat with one oar... Paddles a lot, splashes a lot, and just goes in circles... The sad part is not having enough sense to know why he isn't getting anywhere...

Something like not having both oars in the water...

Paul S
05-31-2012, 3:21 PM
The only stuff I received in the mail from NRA are magazine,membership renewal once in awhile letter from NRA-ILA.

Same here...can't help but wonder if the OP shared his email address elsewhere and this is the result rather than any skullduggery on the part of the NRA...or perhaps I am just lucky.

bubbapug1
05-31-2012, 3:25 PM
Maybe saluting the flag and saying the pledge at an nra meeting makes you feel more american, but I believe honoring the constitution makes you a better American...Part of those freedoms is the right to have an opinion and to be able to voice it. I realize on Calguns that the right is not open ended as its privatly owned, but when members of the gun community openly are disgusted with the NRA, there is a reason to talk about it.

As to the contention that I am crazy for correlating the NRA to Facism, alll I can say is maybe you need to read up on Facism, and than see if its not similar to Arizona's new slant on America....

Let's not focus on the brady post here....yes its an easy one to attack, and so you feel you will get your rocks off doing so, and yes, that move was a bit over the top...treason I would have to say, but at times one gets upset by the continual drip of propaganda and you over react.

What I am talking about is the NRA painting itself into a corner into which it will become ineffective for us. I think they are approaching that corner now. I think they are becoming part of the problem, not a means to a solution, which is to get our gun rights back in California.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Fascism ( /ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a radical authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2] Fascists seek rejuvenation of their nation based on commitment to an organic national community where its individuals are united together as one people in national identity by suprapersonal connections of ancestry, culture, and blood through a totalitarian single-party state that seeks the mass mobilization of a nation through discipline, indoctrination, physical education, and eugenics.

stix213
05-31-2012, 3:32 PM
Linking the definition of Fascism doesn't make it so. I'm really curious as to how the NRA has dabbled in eugenics by the way. (that's from your own link)

P.W.
05-31-2012, 3:34 PM
So because the majority of us Support both the 2A and the NRA as a Pro-2A organization, we are somehow Fascists ? Your Senile and need to take your whining and wiki quoting somewhere else.

RobG
05-31-2012, 3:37 PM
To think that CGN/CGF can do, has done, or will do, as much for gun owners as the NRA is simply comical.

bubbapug1
05-31-2012, 3:56 PM
Linking the definition of Fascism doesn't make it so. I'm really curious as to how the NRA has dabbled in eugenics by the way. (that's from your own link)

So because the majority of us Support both the 2A and the NRA as a Pro-2A organization, we are somehow Fascists ? Your Senile and need to take your whining and wiki quoting somewhere else.

Very well thought out and well supported factual responses....thanks for your deep thought and reflections.....

I own more guns than most folks on Calguns, and I am not a facist. Thats a flawed case of logic...and one which is overstreach by far of my argument....

Show me where I said being progun is being a facist...I said the NRA has lent its support to causes and candidates whose agenda and message is facist.

Eugenics is not facism, nor is always a part of facism. Facism can be exclusvie of eugencis and still be facism. Your grabbing at straws...look at the other aspects of facism, and you will see the intolerance practiced as public policy in some areas of our country has taken a very facist slant.

P.W.
05-31-2012, 4:18 PM
Maybe if you'd stop editing your posts, I could post a rebuttal . How many guns you own doesn't give you anymore standing in this manner than the next member who only owns one gun. I support your right to have an opinion that the NRA are Fascists through association but you need to lighten up Francis and get over the whole mailer crap. Your original posted statement gave off the impression that because of the "NRA" is guilty by association, the supporters themselves were somehow apart of that. If you want to make the Case that the NRA lends its cause out to Fascists then make a new thread about such subject and make your case.

Because as of right now, your just "Trolling"...

bubbapug1
05-31-2012, 4:30 PM
Don't worry, they won't miss my $60.00 a year.

gbp
05-31-2012, 4:34 PM
this thread just goes to prove that people with a high post count are not necessarily the sharpest tool in the box

i gave up on looking at a persons post count a long time ago, say something intelligent and perhaps I'll listen, post **** and it goes in the bin

stix213
05-31-2012, 4:36 PM
And insurrections...if you don't see the race card and sounds of fascism in that mailer you have to take a critical reading class...or maybe join the fascist party.


How have you confirmed that mailer even was sent to you from the NRA? I don't see the NRA mentioned in any of it. I'm an NRA member and did not receive this e-mail.


Eugenics is not facism, nor is always a part of facism. Facism can be exclusvie of eugencis and still be facism. Your grabbing at straws...look at the other aspects of facism, and you will see the intolerance practiced as public policy in some areas of our country has taken a very facist slant.

Then your own definition of facism differs from the one you linked as evidence of NRA facism.

I also don't see the connection between non-gun related policies in some areas of the country and the NRA. You still need to make that connection. Supporting a candidate based on their gun views in no way means an endorsement of all their views obviously. I supported JB over eMeg specifically because eMeg would have been even worse than JB on gun issues. Does that make me a public employee union bootlicker like JB? I don't think so.

1859sharps
05-31-2012, 4:39 PM
.....I am not going to change any minds here because most are closed....

maybe...or maybe it's because you haven't given a convincing rational argument to support your accusations/position/claims etc.

hard to take someone seriously who gets this worked up over a "few" extra emails...and Emails that aren't even for sure or proven to be from the NRA it's self.

Anyone with a moderate understanding of how Email works and a little effort can can craft an Email to look like it came from someone else.

You have heard of phishing emails right? you know the one's crafted to look like they came from your bank, ask you to put in your credit card number or account numbers or social security numbers. are you going to blame your bank when you get one of these and blindly believe they come from your bank? ...because that is what you appear to have done with the NRA.

jrwhitt
05-31-2012, 4:41 PM
If the OP posted the headers from the e-mail we could dispense with all the finger pointing. Either it came from the NRA or it didn't and the headers will show the route.

bwiese
05-31-2012, 4:46 PM
To think that CGN/CGF can do, has done, or will do, as much for gun owners as the NRA is simply comical.

Agreed.

Gene and I have continually exhorted that it's kinda silly to give to CGF and yet not be an NRA member.

GOEX FFF
05-31-2012, 7:09 PM
I love guns, but I hate the NRA.

:rolleyes:

Without the NRA, you wouldn't have guns.

Nice way to take advantage of the strongest system in the nation that has maintained your RKBA.

HowardW56
05-31-2012, 7:18 PM
If the OP posted the headers from the e-mail we could dispense with all the finger pointing. Either it came from the NRA or it didn't and the headers will show the route.

:iagree: But it seems that the OP just wants to complain and badmouth the NRA. I doubt the e-mail originated from the NRA!

DannyInSoCal
05-31-2012, 7:20 PM
Here in SoCal - NRA backed politicians elected was a piss poor 2 of 17.

Maybe if they spent money to actually support the politicians they back -

Instead of the constant and expensive donation groveling -

I'd give more than just the minimum.

And the NRA hat I received was made in China....

HowardW56
05-31-2012, 7:27 PM
I love guns, but I hate the NRA.

:rolleyes:

Without the NRA, you wouldn't have guns.

Nice way to take advantage of the strongest system in the nation that has maintained your RKBA.

bubbapug seems very foolish...

taperxz
05-31-2012, 7:44 PM
The NRA sent me the same stuff all day long, I was tired of it. I opted out but that did not slow down the mailings. Then my name got on other lists and there seemed no way out.

I wrote the NRA and told them I wanted to quit. Apparently quitting the NRA is not as easy as joining. They wanted a letter saying why I want out, and it had to be witnessed by another, and some other dramatic stuff I cannot recall.

I was livid. I wrote back and said whatever I get in the mail next asking for money, well I will send that money to the Brady Group and give the NRA credit as the donor. Sure enough I got another mailing so I sent the $25 to the Brady Group and sent a copy of the check to the NRA.

Mailings ceased overnight!!!!

COOL! And you want to own a shrimping boat too? Figures.

SkyMag68
05-31-2012, 8:08 PM
I hate NRA for NOT sending me more junks mail..;):D

emcon5
05-31-2012, 8:16 PM
:iagree: But it seems that the OP just wants to complain and badmouth the NRA. I doubt the e-mail originated from the NRA!

No way in hell that email is from the NRA. I get e-mail from the NRA pretty regularly, but never anything even remotely like that. Lots of tries to get me to buy wine, books, or all sorts of NRA-branded crap, plus ILA alerts.

a1c
05-31-2012, 8:25 PM
It really pisses me off that I have to opt out from the NRA's BS and shameful propaganda, and that I still have not been able to do it. It's like my calls have no effects.

I should have to opt in to get their crap. Not opt out. The only reason I'm a member to begin with is because the range I go to needs its members to be NRA members for insurance purposes.

It's sad that the NRA leadership thinks it's OK and not damaging long term to heavily polarize the debate and ignore those who do not line up with the GOP's agenda. In our state, where there are plenty of gun owners who are socially liberal, that just hurts our rights. And in the meanwhile, the NRA lines up with candidates and politicians that might defend 2A rights, but deny or attack other civil liberties. That's not a defendable position.

vincewarde
05-31-2012, 8:47 PM
Here in SoCal - NRA backed politicians elected was a piss poor 2 of 17.

Maybe if they spent money to actually support the politicians they back


Te strength of the NRA is found in how many people will vote the way they recommend. In a nationwide poll done a couple of years ago, a full one in four voters indicated that they will always vote with the NRA. The organization was by far the most influential organization of it's kind. NRA endorsements are routinely placed on campaign literature and the NRA also mails out endorsement cards to people on their list (as a matter of fact, I just got some!).

Obviously, the NRA's influence varies from place to place - and therefore so does its' effectiveness.

Finally, I would rather have the NRA focus on statewide and national advertizing than local congressional districts.

Gem1950
05-31-2012, 8:50 PM
It really pisses me off that I have to opt out from the NRA's BS and shameful propaganda, and that I still have not been able to do it. It's like my calls have no effects.

I should have to opt in to get their crap. Not opt out. The only reason I'm a member to begin with is because the range I go to needs its members to be NRA members for insurance purposes.

It's sad that the NRA leadership thinks it's OK and not damaging long term to heavily polarize the debate and ignore those who do not line up with the GOP's agenda. In our state, where there are plenty of gun owners who are socially liberal, that just hurts our rights. And in the meanwhile, the NRA lines up with candidates and politicians that might defend 2A rights, but deny or attack other civil liberties. That's not a defendable position.

^^^ You're asking for it big time.

Twystd1
05-31-2012, 8:59 PM
OP.
This spam was not from the NRA.
It is from www.warfighterscience.com and their subsidiary www.e3core.com

How the hell they got your email address. I don't know.
Often spammers get a list from a retailer or swipe the emails from a web site.
How many different gun forums are you on. Hmmm let me take a look here... OK. They could of gotten your email addy from any of the gun related web sites that you are a member of. Below is a brief list of web sites that I think you have memberships in.

1: www.beltfedshooters.com

2: www.calguns.net

3: www.hkpro.com

4: www.snipershide.com

5: www.deserteagleforums.com

6: www.1919a4.com

7: www.glocktalk.com

8: www.castboolits.gunloads.com

My point is. HOW DO YOU KNOW THE NRA IS BEHIND THIS?

Or do you know and you aren't saying?
If you know for sure it is the NRA. I will back you.
If not.... Not so much.

If you send me a complete and non edited copy of that spamer e-mail via PM. I will have the fellas do some homework for you and report back to you. Then you can post up the findings here if you so choose.

Twystd1

njineermike
05-31-2012, 9:05 PM
I'm an NRA member and I never got anything even remotely like this.

IVC
05-31-2012, 10:45 PM
Also, did not Mr. Nugents comments also hint and wink at the idea of insurrection or at least an armed response to the election of Obama...wonderful comments at a national NRA meeting, applauded with a standing ovation no less. So cut the BS about the NRA tamping down such talk, they promote it, they embraced it, and they took full ownership of it.

This is the definition of paranoia: "extreme and unreasonable suspicion of other people and their motives". In spite of all the evidence to the contrary, over hundred years of actual actions, infinite statements on being a single issue organization, supporting D candidates such as Harry Reid solely on their gun record, you take a *part of a single sentence* to build a case for the hidden agenda of treason :confused:?

So lets have a discussion on this, and not a slap down and pile on from keyboard warriors, as that is exactly what I am sayin the NRA is slipping towards, intolerance of alternate opinions in areas, such as economic policy, that they have no business in.

Good point. Let's have a discussion and stick to the facts. You first by providing links to the NRA position on the economic policy (taxation, business regulation, wealth redistribution, etc.), intolerance towards gun-friendly Democrats, tolerance of the gun-unfriendly Republicans, any official position on the social issues (abortion, gay rights, women rights, etc.). If you do, the rest of us eat crow.

It's not a discussion if you get upset by a third party junk mail and chalk it up to the NRA. If I said that I hated Sony because I saw a beer commercial on TV they made, plus I only drink wine, it wouldn't account to a discussion, now would it?

Or let's go with Bwiese and just shut the thread because you don't agree with the comments even though they are spot on.

Nobody is shutting the thread down. However, few agree comments are "spot on." To get your point accross, point to the NRA positions and actions that support your claims.

I am staing the NRA's usefullness is coming to an end, and organizations like calguns seem to do a much better job locally for us as californians than the NRA has done. What has the NRA done as an activist for us lately?

Don't judge a team by it's fans. NRA is not a political party where you have to have much in common with the members. What you like about Calguns is that you probably have much more in common with the members, but again, this is just about socializing on a web site. When it comes to battle, Calguns works with NRA and fights together, rednecks, hillbillies and all.

bubbapug1
05-31-2012, 10:51 PM
No..no kool-aid for me.

FastFinger
05-31-2012, 10:59 PM
OP.
This spam was not from the NRA.
It is from www.warfighterscience.com and their subsidiary www.e3core.com

How the hell they got your email address. I don't know.
Often spammers get a list from a retailer or swipe the emails from a web site.
....

If you send me a complete and non edited copy of that spamer e-mail via PM. I will have the fellas do some homework for you and report back to you. Then you can post up the findings here if you so choose.

Twystd1

Dang - that's pretty much the last round in the last mag.

Fully agree, very, very unlikely that the email had any connection to the NRA.

But I also agree that the NRA does need to tread carefully when it comes to political positions and calls to action. At times they do come across a bit hyper, but then considering what's at stake it's not surprising that discussions get heated.

I can't recall whether I phoned in or filled out some online request, but I did ask to opt out of all marketing pitches, and it worked. The only communication I got from them was membership renewal about 2 months before mine expired. That and the monthly Rifleman - but I like that one.

Don't forget to clean up your brass!

Nitro Express!
05-31-2012, 11:00 PM
You act as though it came from the NRA.

bwiese
05-31-2012, 11:02 PM
Here in SoCal - NRA backed politicians elected was a piss poor 2 of 17.

2. The pols that are pro-gun in SoCal are generally Reeps [a few exceptions, like Lou Correa and Rod Wright].

3. Reeps in general in CA have self-destructed. Throwing sand down a rat hole doesn't help.

IVC
05-31-2012, 11:04 PM
It's sad that the NRA leadership thinks it's OK and not damaging long term to heavily polarize the debate and ignore those who do not line up with the GOP's agenda. In our state, where there are plenty of gun owners who are socially liberal, that just hurts our rights. And in the meanwhile, the NRA lines up with candidates and politicians that might defend 2A rights, but deny or attack other civil liberties. That's not a defendable position.

NRA does not have a social agenda, liberal or conservative. NRA is a single issue, 2A organization. The people who belong to NRA can have their agendas, but nobody is forcing you to associate with them and they don't have any influence on NRA's position on social issues, because NRA doesn't have any.

NRA is NOT a political party. If they were, they would have to have a position on multitude of issues. Since they are NOT, they are looking for one and only one issue. Yes, they can support candidates who have vastly different social agendas from you, but nobody is forcing you to vote for those candidates if gun rights are not your priority. You still get to pick a single issue that floats your boat, while the NRA is fighting for the 2A. Sort of win-win.

Also, almost all people are "single issue." Except that the single issue is D vs. R.

jdberger
05-31-2012, 11:12 PM
Wrestling with pigs...

mag360
05-31-2012, 11:26 PM
NRA never does anything for California...





which is why On May 17, 2012, attorneys for the National Rifle Association, the San Francisco Veteran Police Officers Association, and several San Francisco gun owners filed a Motion for Judgment on the Pleadings in their legal challenge to San Francisco's "locked-storage" law, as well as the City's prohibition on the sale of "hollow-point" ammunition and all ammunition that does not "serve a sporting purpose."


The lawsuit, Jackson v. City and County of San Francisco, was filed as a test case in May of 2009, before the McDonald v. Chicago decision in 2010, and in the wake of the 9th Circuit's confirmation in 2009 in Nordyke v. King that the Second Amendment is "incorporated", i.e., that it protects against infringements by state and local governments.

The NRA sued, and won in the 2005 measure H lawsuit banning handguns in SF. Even in the most liberal city in the most liberal state, they could only get around 55% of people to vote for a handgun ban.

I'm an NRA member and I don't get bombarded with anything. An email or two from wayne la pierre is about it.

ja308
05-31-2012, 11:31 PM
The OP is 5th column brady chump . Seriously folks , we are all NRA and never get anything like this person claims .

The only bright spot I can think of is that he will never leave cali --- Mom's garage is just too nice .

Brags about giving money to brady? Truly a person unworthy of the freedoms obtained and preserved by real men and women .

This is the last post I will read by the OP --- the stench is overwhelming .

IVC
05-31-2012, 11:37 PM
When I signed in and registered on line on the NRA website - the junk mail from various right wing groups started immediately, as in within 15 minutes of the NRA sign up....

As a business owner you don't need an explanation for this. KPI and market analysis will do it. I "googled" the NRA and got advertisement for some "Fund to Stop Gun Violence." I don't blame Google for it, though.

Why not just call a spade a spade and say we just want to arm up and drive out all the non white people, people who speak another language, people not born here ...

If we are going to call a spade a spade, let's do it correctly. A buck from the far right is as good as a buck from the far left. You are being profiled and it sucks, but that's how both Google and Facebook are worth anything more than the hardware they own.

... the NRA is alienating a large portion of the population, its over reaching;

Too many people search for BFF in corporations and organizations. NRA does one thing and it does it well. It won't touch other issues. The alienation is self-inflicted by trying to find "warm and fuzzies" on other issues. It's not there. It's only about 2A. If we now had "2A + global warming" or "2A + hate on fat cats" or "2A + my car is smaller than yours", I am sure more people in CA would feel good about it, but it would alienate others. By sticking to 2A, everybody gets to chose what else to throw in the mix.

stix213
06-01-2012, 12:11 AM
Where does it say in my post that the email was from the NRA? Where?



This stuff is why the NRA has become gun owners worst ally

I love guns, but I hate the NRA. Since signing in to the NRA with my membr number on line I have been deluged with propaganda like this gem I just got....

:facepalm:

Guns4ever
06-01-2012, 12:15 AM
If you cherish your rights and freedom to possess firearms then you simply HAVE to join the NRA. Regardless of ones political views or persuasion,if you truly are concerned for your rights,you have to support the largest organization that are working every day on our behalf to defend those rights.
As far as I am concerned,having seen it all go down the tubes before and wondering what the hell happened,I am grateful to have a vociferous organization fighting for me.

Meplat
06-01-2012, 2:08 AM
In my call to the NRA today they DID NOT deny that they give out my email to "like minded organizations."



It’s bad form for NRA to sell its members’ contact info. But I never get stuff like that. In today’s world it is very easy to develop profiles of people who buy certain things and view certain sites etc. I doubt that just joining NRA got you that particular add. Have you purchased any phallus stretchers or anarchist cookbooks lately?

If it really makes it that hard to live with yourself being an NRA member I think we could make an exception in your case. Maybe take up a collection to refund your dues.

njineermike
06-01-2012, 6:16 AM
The NRA sent me the same stuff all day long, I was tired of it. I opted out but that did not slow down the mailings. Then my name got on other lists and there seemed no way out.

I wrote the NRA and told them I wanted to quit. Apparently quitting the NRA is not as easy as joining. They wanted a letter saying why I want out, and it had to be witnessed by another, and some other dramatic stuff I cannot recall.

I was livid. I wrote back and said whatever I get in the mail next asking for money, well I will send that money to the Brady Group and give the NRA credit as the donor. Sure enough I got another mailing so I sent the $25 to the Brady Group and sent a copy of the check to the NRA.

Mailings ceased overnight!!!!


No wonder we have these problems. There is NO defensible reason to send Brady money. None.

skyscraper
06-01-2012, 6:55 AM
All this over an email.
I Gotta agree with Bweise....

QQQ
06-01-2012, 7:09 AM
I have given to the NRA and will continue to do so. But I don't like their implication that "Occupiers, Anarchists and so called "New Black Panthers" " are somehow all enemies of the American people in need of getting shot. Most anarchists are pacifist or at least eschew the initiation of violence, especially against innocent civilians. Occupiers tend to be victims of political violence, not perpetrators. And as for "New Black Panthers," I doubt that most NRA members could even name one, let alone identify one by name who has been convicted of carrying out an act of violence against a civilian (without resorting to wikipedia or a right-wing web site).

"blatantly published a detailed plan for chaos across America" I'd love to see where they got that idea from. Or is it all just made up, similar to the UN Small Arms Treaty?

bubbapug1
06-01-2012, 7:13 AM
Subject: URGENT: Obama Executive Order Gives Amnesty to 20 Millions Illegals
Date: 6/1/2012 4:59:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time
From: patriot@minutemanhqupdate.com


Another Gem from another NRA proxy....



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obama Exec Order To Give 20 Million Illegals Amnesty!

ALERT: Washington is buzzing with the rumors that Obama is planning to circumvent Congress enacting Stroke-of-the-pen AMNESTY for ALL illegal aliens in the United States via an Executive Order! Obama will once more defy the majority of Americans and DICTATE his brand of social justice OBAMALISM and do the exact opposite of what the people demand. This is an overt violation of the Constitution!

FAX NOW Stop STROKE-OF-THE-PEN AMNESTY!

Fax Now Tell Congress To STOP Obama's AMNESTY Order!

Select Here - FAX All Congressmen - No Obama Amnesty!

With plummeting public support and faced with mounting concerns over his ability to lead, President Obama is quickly becoming a lame duck president. It must seem clear to Obama that the coming election will end the Democrat control of Congress. Without his mindless pocket politicians voting for whatever he wants to jam down the throat of the American electorate, it is clear that he will not be able to further force his National Socialist agenda on the American people and expand OBAMALISM.

Obama will circumvent Congress and the Senate in pursuit of his own model of what our nation should become. He could care less what the American people think. 62% of Americans favor stricter border security over amnesty. But this government doesn't care. They will use "whatever means necessary" even SPITTING ON THE CONSTITUTION and the laws of our country, and crushing the state of Arizona in order to get what they want.

Just look at this letter written to the President and signed by Sens. Grassley, Hatch (R-Utah), Vitter (R-La)., Bunning (R-Ky)., Chambliss (R-Ga)., Isakson (R-Ga)., Inhofe (R-Okla)., and Cochran (R-Miss)..

a1c
06-01-2012, 8:08 AM
If you cherish your rights and freedom to possess firearms then you simply HAVE to join the NRA. Regardless of ones political views or persuasion,if you truly are concerned for your rights,you have to support the largest organization that are working every day on our behalf to defend those rights.
As far as I am concerned,having seen it all go down the tubes before and wondering what the hell happened,I am grateful to have a vociferous organization fighting for me.

The problem is that I value my 2A rights, and I also value equally other civil rights. And the NRA lately has been supporting people who do not support those other civil rights, or even want to deny them to some classes of people, or who want to roll back established legislation which I find important because it protects other fundamental rights.

So that's why I favor CGF over the NRA when it comes to what comes from my wallet.

HowardW56
06-01-2012, 8:09 AM
Subject: URGENT: Obama Executive Order Gives Amnesty to 20 Millions Illegals
Date: 6/1/2012 4:59:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time
From: patriot@minutemanhqupdate.com


Another Gem from another NRA proxy....



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obama Exec Order To Give 20 Million Illegals Amnesty!

ALERT: Washington is buzzing with the rumors that Obama is planning to circumvent Congress enacting Stroke-of-the-pen AMNESTY for ALL illegal aliens in the United States via an Executive Order! Obama will once more defy the majority of Americans and DICTATE his brand of social justice OBAMALISM and do the exact opposite of what the people demand. This is an overt violation of the Constitution!

FAX NOW Stop STROKE-OF-THE-PEN AMNESTY!

Fax Now Tell Congress To STOP Obama's AMNESTY Order!

Select Here - FAX All Congressmen - No Obama Amnesty!

With plummeting public support and faced with mounting concerns over his ability to lead, President Obama is quickly becoming a lame duck president. It must seem clear to Obama that the coming election will end the Democrat control of Congress. Without his mindless pocket politicians voting for whatever he wants to jam down the throat of the American electorate, it is clear that he will not be able to further force his National Socialist agenda on the American people and expand OBAMALISM.

Obama will circumvent Congress and the Senate in pursuit of his own model of what our nation should become. He could care less what the American people think. 62% of Americans favor stricter border security over amnesty. But this government doesn't care. They will use "whatever means necessary" even SPITTING ON THE CONSTITUTION and the laws of our country, and crushing the state of Arizona in order to get what they want.

Just look at this letter written to the President and signed by Sens. Grassley, Hatch (R-Utah), Vitter (R-La)., Bunning (R-Ky)., Chambliss (R-Ga)., Isakson (R-Ga)., Inhofe (R-Okla)., and Cochran (R-Miss)..

WOW, Bubbapug1, how did you get yourself on these lists. A little research indicates that that is coming from the same mail server as TeapartyPAC, proofpositiveupdate.com, ameripacupdate.org, ccrkbaupdate.org, Americans United for Freedom, Life and Liberty PAC, Center for Individual Freedom,

Maybe you should look beyond the NRA for your unwanted e-mail problem...

Twystd1
06-01-2012, 8:11 AM
Hmmm.
We just did a backround check on patriot@minutemanhqupdate.com

This comes from a different mail server than the E3core mail.

In simple terms. Your e-mail address has been put into a data base of one or more right winged propaganda mail lists.

These folks at minutemanhqupdate.com have at least 74 different email addresses they can send you this crap from.
My guess is that it won't stop. Hence if you try to put these emails in your spam folder. They will just send them from a different email address.
Would you like us to intercede and tell the admin of these mail servers to take you off their list?
Just let me know. I will try to do this for you if you request it.
All I can do is try.
Pm me your email addy if you want help. Or not.

Just trying to help.

Twystd1

hvengel
06-01-2012, 8:31 AM
Subject: URGENT: Obama Executive Order Gives Amnesty to 20 Millions Illegals
Date: 6/1/2012 4:59:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time
From: patriot@minutemanhqupdate.com


Another Gem from another NRA proxy....



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obama Exec Order To Give 20 Million Illegals Amnesty!

ALERT: Washington is buzzing with the rumors that Obama is planning to circumvent Congress enacting Stroke-of-the-pen AMNESTY for ALL illegal aliens in the United States via an Executive Order! Obama will once more defy the majority of Americans and DICTATE his brand of social justice OBAMALISM and do the exact opposite of what the people demand. This is an overt violation of the Constitution!

FAX NOW Stop STROKE-OF-THE-PEN AMNESTY!

Fax Now Tell Congress To STOP Obama's AMNESTY Order!

Select Here - FAX All Congressmen - No Obama Amnesty!

With plummeting public support and faced with mounting concerns over his ability to lead, President Obama is quickly becoming a lame duck president. It must seem clear to Obama that the coming election will end the Democrat control of Congress. Without his mindless pocket politicians voting for whatever he wants to jam down the throat of the American electorate, it is clear that he will not be able to further force his National Socialist agenda on the American people and expand OBAMALISM.

Obama will circumvent Congress and the Senate in pursuit of his own model of what our nation should become. He could care less what the American people think. 62% of Americans favor stricter border security over amnesty. But this government doesn't care. They will use "whatever means necessary" even SPITTING ON THE CONSTITUTION and the laws of our country, and crushing the state of Arizona in order to get what they want.

Just look at this letter written to the President and signed by Sens. Grassley, Hatch (R-Utah), Vitter (R-La)., Bunning (R-Ky)., Chambliss (R-Ga)., Isakson (R-Ga)., Inhofe (R-Okla)., and Cochran (R-Miss)..

Except for your comments I don't see the NRA mentioned anywhere in your email posting. I have NEVER gotten anything like this from the NRA or anyone else and I have been an NRA member for over 30 years.

Yes someone got your email address from somewhere and you are getting far right email adds. But is this because the NRA gave your address out? If so then how come no other NRA members here are getting similar emails? Huge hole in your logic here. Almost everyone here sees that hole except you and perhaps one or two other posters who are apparently left leaning like you.

Lets see if I understand your reasoning.

1. Most pols who are supporters of A2 lean to the right.

2. The NRA supports pols who are supporters of the A2 even those who are left leaning.

Therefore:

The NRA has a far right agenda.

Because of the conclusion above:

The NRA is giving out your email address to far right organizations.

I think we all agree that #1 and #2 are basically correct. Of course the problem you are having basically boils down to #1 being correct. IE. that most left leaning pols are not A2 supporters and are therefore not endorsed by the NRA.

As others have pointed out the NRA does endorse some left leaning pols such as Harry Reid simply because they are nominal A2 supporters. This one example clearly illustrates just how 1 issue the NRA is even if you don't want to agree that this is the case. If you want the NRA to endorse more left leaning pols then those with leftist views like yourself need to work at getting more of these left leaning pols to be A2 supporters.

Blaming the NRA for the fact that the left generally does not support the A2 is not going to wash here. That dog simply does not hunt as the logic does not add up. Leftist pols have, for the most part, decided to oppose A2 rights and the NRA responds by endorsing their opponents. The Boolean math (logic) is very simple and most 5th graders would understand how to get to the right conclusion based on the fact set. I don't understand how you reach a totally different conclusion. Perhaps because you are not using logic in this case and are being driven by emotions instead.

Meplat
06-01-2012, 9:23 AM
this thread just goes to prove that people with a high post count are not necessarily the sharpest tool in the box

i gave up on looking at a persons post count a long time ago, say something intelligent and perhaps I'll listen, post **** and it goes in the bin

Well, you have the tool part right!:43:

IVC
06-01-2012, 9:25 AM
The problem is that I value my 2A rights, and I also value equally other civil rights. And the NRA lately has been supporting people who do not support those other civil rights, or even want to deny them to some classes of people, or who want to roll back established legislation which I find important because it protects other fundamental rights.

So that's why I favor CGF over the NRA when it comes to what comes from my wallet.

What you are objecting to is the physical impossibility of supporting only the 2A aspect of a candidate, while not appearing to support the rest of his/her positions. NRA is not a political party. NRA doesn't care about any other issue the candidate advocates. NRA doesn't support or oppose any non-2A stance a candidate might have. Any perceived support is just correlational.

You choose who you are going to vote for. The NRA provides guidance to those who vote guns. In that respect, the NRA is very clear cut and explicit.

BTW, the CGF is also a single issue organization. They won't touch a non-2A legal case. This doesn't mean they hate minorities or are racists, just that in the litigation arena one can pick a single case without any additional baggage, while in the lobbying arena candidates come as packages.

NRA is to 2A what ACLU is to 1A. ACLU will protect criminals and racists if their 1A rights are violated, but that doesn't make either them or their members criminals or racists. You support ACLU if you care about 1A and you support NRA if you care about 2A. When it comes to voting, you vote for whoever is closest to your own opinion on whatever is the most important issue to you, with ACLU and NRA giving you raw scores.

njineermike
06-01-2012, 9:46 AM
I think the OP has been surfing too much right wing porn....

Meplat
06-01-2012, 10:05 AM
Perhaps because you are not using logic in this case and are being driven by emotions instead.

Is this not the definition of the average rank and file leftist UI?

gatesbox
06-01-2012, 10:13 AM
This thread is all over the place.....

1. I'm going to guess that the NRA is not pimping your information. I am a Life member, and while I get sick of the insurance pitches, that is all I get, along with NRA merchandise and IRA-ILA announcements.

2. As a person who is politically fairly center to center left, I will acknowledge that Wayne Lepierre represents an increasingly right wing agenda beyond 2A. As head of the NRA-ILA this produces more rhetoric than is historically true of the NRA.

3. Membership in the NRA does not contribute to the political action of the NRA-ILA, so as someone who does not agree with the politics of the NRA-ILA I have no problem being a life NRA member. When the ILA stops their right wing extremism they will get more money from me. But there is a financial firewall between the activities of the NRA (read membership dues) and the NRA-ILA.

[for those who defend the ILA as strictly a 2A group, Lepierre's background speaks for itself. And the recent election is proof enough that the grading system is biased. I am no fan of Obama or Romney, but they should both get an F. The active anti-Obama campaigning, is strictly based on party bias. It began before an opposing candidate was selected, which is presumptuous considering the historical grading system. I suspect Romney gets a higher grade simply in order to tip the scales from an incumbent endorsement.]

Conclusion: I understand the OP's paranoia, but it is likely unfounded. Also I would argue that that there is still room to support the NRA regardless of your place on the political spectrum, as long as you still wish to preserve the 2A as an individual right.

Glock22Fan
06-01-2012, 10:21 AM
Except for your comments I don't see the NRA mentioned anywhere in your email posting. I have NEVER gotten anything like this from the NRA or anyone else and I have been an NRA member for over 30 years.

Yes someone got your email address from somewhere and you are getting far right email adds. But is this because the NRA gave your address out? If so then how come no other NRA members here are getting similar emails? Huge hole in your logic here. Almost everyone here sees that hole except you and perhaps one or two other posters who are apparently left leaning like you.

Lets see if I understand your reasoning.

1. Most pols who are supporters of A2 lean to the right.

2. The NRA supports pols who are supporters of the A2 even those who are left leaning.

Therefore:

The NRA has a far right agenda.

Because of the conclusion above:

The NRA is giving out your email address to far right organizations.

I think we all agree that #1 and #2 are basically correct. Of course the problem you are having basically boils down to #1 being correct. IE. that most left leaning pols are not A2 supporters and are therefore not endorsed by the NRA.

As others have pointed out the NRA does endorse some left leaning pols such as Harry Reid simply because they are nominal A2 supporters. This one example clearly illustrates just how 1 issue the NRA is even if you don't want to agree that this is the case. If you want the NRA to endorse more left leaning pols then those with leftist views like yourself need to work at getting more of these left leaning pols to be A2 supporters.

Blaming the NRA for the fact that the left generally does not support the A2 is not going to wash here. That dog simply does not hunt as the logic does not add up. Leftist pols have, for the most part, decided to oppose A2 rights and the NRA responds by endorsing their opponents. The Boolean math (logic) is very simple and most 5th graders would understand how to get to the right conclusion based on the fact set. I don't understand how you reach a totally different conclusion. Perhaps because you are not using logic in this case and are being driven by emotions instead.

Absolutely nailed it on the head!

IVC
06-01-2012, 10:25 AM
I am no fan of Obama or Romney, but they should both get an F. The active anti-Obama campaigning, is strictly based on party bias. It began before an opposing candidate was selected, which is presumptuous considering the historical grading system.

Good post, but I must disagree with this statement. The current President has demonstrated his agenda from how he set up BATFE, over private meetings with Sarah Brady to what the Secretary of State Clinton is doing on the small arms treaty. This is not a D vs. R division. Remember, the NRA supported Reid over Angle who was, to put it mildly, pretty far right.

Dr Rockso
06-01-2012, 10:36 AM
Remember, the NRA supported Reid over Angle who was, to put it mildly, pretty far right.

The NRA endorsed neither candidate. They claimed their decision not to endorse Reid was due to his support of Kagan's SCOTUS confirmation.

dfletcher
06-01-2012, 10:52 AM
Subject: URGENT: Obama Executive Order Gives Amnesty to 20 Millions Illegals
Date: 6/1/2012 4:59:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time
From: patriot@minutemanhqupdate.com


Another Gem from another NRA proxy....





None of the e-mails come from NRA, but there's an assumption they must have been sent by others because NRA sold the info - correct? It seems to me the link could have come from any number of sources - a credit card company, a warranty or purchase. Gun show tickets bought on line, raffle tickets. I get all sorts of junk mail when I by tickets on line for the Reno Gun show.

I understand you don't like NRA. Perhaps this dislike causes you to make the connection?

Just asking.

Glock22Fan
06-01-2012, 11:02 AM
None of the e-mails come from NRA, but there's an assumption they must have been sent by others because NRA sold the info - correct? It seems to me the link could have come from any number of sources - a credit card company, a warranty or purchase. Gun show tickets bought on line, raffle tickets. I get all sorts of junk mail when I by tickets on line for the Reno Gun show.

I understand you don't like NRA. Perhaps this dislike causes you to make the connection?

Just asking.

I think it is simpler than that. It goes more like:

"The NRA supports more Republicans than Democrats and the NRA does not condemn certain people I condemn. Therefore the NRA is violently fascist.

This organization sending me emails appears to be violently fascist.

Therefore the NRA gave them my email information, (but somehow forgot to send them most of the other NRA member's email addresses)."

vincewarde
06-01-2012, 11:54 AM
Subject: URGENT: Obama Executive Order Gives Amnesty to 20 Millions Illegals
Date: 6/1/2012 4:59:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time
From: patriot@minutemanhqupdate.com


Another Gem from another NRA proxy....



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obama Exec Order To Give 20 Million Illegals Amnesty!

ALERT: Washington is buzzing with the rumors that Obama is planning to circumvent Congress enacting Stroke-of-the-pen AMNESTY for ALL illegal aliens in the United States via an Executive Order! Obama will once more defy the majority of Americans and DICTATE his brand of social justice OBAMALISM and do the exact opposite of what the people demand. This is an overt violation of the Constitution!

FAX NOW Stop STROKE-OF-THE-PEN AMNESTY!

Fax Now Tell Congress To STOP Obama's AMNESTY Order!

Select Here - FAX All Congressmen - No Obama Amnesty!

With plummeting public support and faced with mounting concerns over his ability to lead, President Obama is quickly becoming a lame duck president. It must seem clear to Obama that the coming election will end the Democrat control of Congress. Without his mindless pocket politicians voting for whatever he wants to jam down the throat of the American electorate, it is clear that he will not be able to further force his National Socialist agenda on the American people and expand OBAMALISM.

Obama will circumvent Congress and the Senate in pursuit of his own model of what our nation should become. He could care less what the American people think. 62% of Americans favor stricter border security over amnesty. But this government doesn't care. They will use "whatever means necessary" even SPITTING ON THE CONSTITUTION and the laws of our country, and crushing the state of Arizona in order to get what they want.

Just look at this letter written to the President and signed by Sens. Grassley, Hatch (R-Utah), Vitter (R-La)., Bunning (R-Ky)., Chambliss (R-Ga)., Isakson (R-Ga)., Inhofe (R-Okla)., and Cochran (R-Miss)..

There is one give away in the above email: "Select Here - FAX All Congressmen"

My guess is that if one clicks on the link, a fee is charged to send the fax. Hmmm - perhaps the people who are going to make money are the one's who generated the email. The old adage, "Follow the Money" will always be true.

As for the issue, no president should ever use "executive orders" to avoid the pesky need to actually follow the constitution and go through Congress. Presidents from both parties have done this and probably will continue to do so. I will oppose any such action, by any president, EVEN IF I AGREE WITH THE INTENT OF SUCH AN ORDER.

Why? Simple: What a president I agree with does today, a president in the future will use to justify something I do not want in the future. I am a strong conservative who believes that comprehensive reform, encompassing both greater security and some form of what many would call amnesty, is desperately needed - but executive orders are not the way to do it.

(BTW this story is from 2010 (http://www.wnd.com/2010/06/169837/))

(I have also confirmed (http://www.alipac.us/f9/obama-circumvents-congress-stroke-pen-amnesty-227391/#1226611)that sending the faxes does cost money - and that this spam has been out there for a while.)

I HIGHLY DOUBT THAT THE NRA HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THESE EMAILS!

IVC
06-01-2012, 12:08 PM
The NRA endorsed neither candidate. They claimed their decision not to endorse Reid was due to his support of Kagan's SCOTUS confirmation.

I stand corrected. However, if the NRA was all about the right wing, they would have supported Angle, which they didn't.

Meplat
06-01-2012, 12:37 PM
I stand corrected. However, if the NRA was all about the right wing, they would have supported Angle, which they didn't.

They did endorse Reid for many years and I think the Kagan thing is a valid point.

vincewarde
06-01-2012, 1:35 PM
I stand corrected. However, if the NRA was all about the right wing, they would have supported Angle, which they didn't.

I disagree. In research, there is a very important principle that is often overlooked: Correlation does not equal causation.

There is a strong correlation between the NRA and conservatives - however, this does not prove that the NRA only supports conservatives. Indeed there have been times (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/06/AR2010100606329.html) when the NRA endorsed a pro-gun Democrat over a pro-gun Republican challenger or a pro-gun Democrat over an anti-gun Republican.

This is because the NRA's policy favor incumbents over challengers - assuming both are equally pro-gun.

The correlation between the NRA is caused by the fact that conservatives are more likely to support gun rights - not that the NRA is itself a conservative organization.

dfletcher
06-01-2012, 1:38 PM
The NRA sent me the same stuff all day long, I was tired of it. I opted out but that did not slow down the mailings. Then my name got on other lists and there seemed no way out.

I wrote the NRA and told them I wanted to quit. Apparently quitting the NRA is not as easy as joining. They wanted a letter saying why I want out, and it had to be witnessed by another, and some other dramatic stuff I cannot recall.

I was livid. I wrote back and said whatever I get in the mail next asking for money, well I will send that money to the Brady Group and give the NRA credit as the donor. Sure enough I got another mailing so I sent the $25 to the Brady Group and sent a copy of the check to the NRA.

Mailings ceased overnight!!!!

You know, you could have sent a copy of the Brady check to NRA without actually mailing it to the Brady group - I doubt NRA would call and ask Sarah if they got $25.00 bucks form so and so ...

I don't know that I'd bet the farm on the "quit the NRA" experience, seems to me all one has to do is not pay dues.

dfletcher
06-01-2012, 1:53 PM
I disagree. In research, there is a very important principle that is often overlooked: Correlation does not equal causation.

There is a strong correlation between the NRA and conservatives - however, this does not prove that the NRA only supports conservatives. Indeed there have been times (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/06/AR2010100606329.html) when the NRA endorsed a pro-gun Democrat over a pro-gun Republican challenger or a pro-gun Democrat over an anti-gun Republican.

This is because the NRA's policy favor incumbents over challengers - assuming both are equally pro-gun.

The correlation between the NRA is caused by the fact that conservatives are more likely to support gun rights - not that the NRA is itself a conservative organization.

I think of it as parallelism and the same could probably be said of gun control groups and liberals. Liberal politicians tend to support gun control so organizations promoting gun control tend to support them. For all we know Sarah Brady and her group could be "balance the budget, send them illegals home and abortion is murder" but on guns they tend to take a liberal approach.

I believe NRA would support a pro-gun liberal Democrat (or Republican) over a conservative who happened to support gun control. Much as we like to think otherwise politicians are people too, they have their foibles and personal positions.

I prefer that NRA remain focused on a politician's position on guns and not take into account other positions.

amd64
06-01-2012, 5:52 PM
I've been an NRA member since 1985 and I don't get emails like that, and the NRA does have my email address. I haven't even opted out from mailings, because I don't receive enough email from them to bother.

mofugly13
06-01-2012, 6:01 PM
The NRA sent me the same stuff all day long, I was tired of it. I opted out but that did not slow down the mailings. Then my name got on other lists and there seemed no way out.

I wrote the NRA and told them I wanted to quit. Apparently quitting the NRA is not as easy as joining. They wanted a letter saying why I want out, and it had to be witnessed by another, and some other dramatic stuff I cannot recall.

I was livid. I wrote back and said whatever I get in the mail next asking for money, well I will send that money to the Brady Group and give the NRA credit as the donor. Sure enough I got another mailing so I sent the $25 to the Brady Group and sent a copy of the check to the NRA.

Mailings ceased overnight!!!!


I think this guy may be a gun owners worst ally. Talk about cutting off your nose tyo spite your face.

383green
06-01-2012, 6:21 PM
To the folks who have responded rationally in this thread full of logic failure, I thank you for reminding me to renew my NRA membership, which lapsed a month or three ago. I signed up for another five years, and opted out from the magazine. I was disappointed to not find a way on the online renewal form to opt out from receiving their silly tote bag, but it probably cost under a buck to make, anyway.

gunsmith
06-01-2012, 7:04 PM
I've been a life member for yrs, never had any reason to complain about anything.

OniKoroshi
06-01-2012, 7:34 PM
"delete, delete, delete..." usually solves the problem...

bubbapug1
06-01-2012, 8:28 PM
I am far from a liberal...totally agaisnt gun control, defense cuts, welfare as its dished out now, medicare, and social security...I'd like to believe in alternative energy, but since I am an engineer, and know what a BTU is, I realize the free market policies to replace oil is the best bet, not governement intervention.

I support the cause of the NRA, but not the side antics the NRA and its president are engaged it, but like I keep saying, they have gone off the deep end.

For those who choose not to believe my email was given to the far right groups by the NRA, thats your call...I talked to the NRA, they said they did give my Email to some of their associates, give...not sold...give.


This is going no where except in some ugly mental masturbation....please close this thread.

Squid
06-01-2012, 8:48 PM
all those urgent pleas for more donations.

I'd be afraid to actually make a extra donation. I only have regular sized mail box.

Meplat
06-01-2012, 10:07 PM
I think this guy may be a gun owners worst ally. Talk about cutting off your nose tyo spite your face.

My BS detector went off scale and pegged out on his post!

Meplat
06-01-2012, 10:22 PM
This is going no where except in some ugly mental masturbation....please close this thread.

Were you not the one who said you were going to keep posting every ugly email you got on this forum? Now you want to stop the debate? Mood swings?

goober
06-01-2012, 10:51 PM
classic:
1) Have an axe to grind
2) Observe things around you that you don't like, and associate them (incorrectly) with said gripe
3) Increase fervor of gripe & repeat cycle
:rolleyes:

bubbapug1
06-01-2012, 11:10 PM
Were you not the one who said you were going to keep posting every ugly email you got on this forum? Now you want to stop the debate? Mood swings?

No, no mood swings, its just a waste of time and a further devisive issue which no ones going to budge on opinion wise so why beat a dead horse unless you have no life and just love conflict which leads to nothing but harder opinions and future civil strife...but if you want to continue the thread without me...go for it.

451040
06-02-2012, 4:55 AM
Have you purchased any phallus stretchers or anarchist cookbooks lately?


http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac284/451040/1.gif