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Scuba Steve33
05-30-2012, 1:21 AM
I'm sure this has been asked before but I tried searching everything I could think of related to this and came up with literally nothing.

Does anyone have experience buying an AK-47? Through who? I want a pistol grip so I know I have to have the mag lock. How are they? I've never used one.

After some searching I found this site and this particular deal. http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct946.aspx Anyone have experience with them? Should I stick to buying in person?

I love the stock looks of original AKs so I wouldn't want to do anything to it EXCEPT with the stock. I want to put a paratrooper stock onto it. Are these illegal being that they can collapse and thus be shorter than 31 inches? Do they make non-collapsible para stocks? Only after quickly searching I couldn't find any para stocks for sale. Is the swap possible? The only experience I have with AKs is when we messed around with the Afghan Army weapons from time to time while I was in Afghanistan. Not too familiar with them. Obviously the top one.

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7398/polytechak47.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/polytechak47.jpg/)

Thanks fellas. I'm sure I forgot some info so I apologize if something was left out.

IntoForever
05-30-2012, 1:32 AM
Some of the guys on here have created a mod to make the underfolder inoperable with the stock collapsed thus making it legal. I have an idea that would work the same with any folding stock however it would be a PITA to do to an already assembled rifle. There are build parties all the time and you can build your own - good luck with the search button, or use google. Just make sure you avoid IO rifles or you will be in for a nightmare.

Arkangel
05-30-2012, 1:37 AM
If you want to keep the stock functional you must make the rifle at lest 30" with the stock folded, this usually means a barrel extension.

Depending on your location an EBR shop may be your best bet. In San Diego you have Parallax Tactical and DAS for top notch shops to help you out and answer all your questions.

SJgunguy24
05-30-2012, 1:57 AM
First off what's your location, and what's your price range?
I would head to a local shop with a good selection and people who know WTF they're talking about.
I have a pretty diverse collection of AK's, if,your in the bay area maybe we could meet at a range. All I ask is you pay for your range fee and ammo.

russt
05-30-2012, 6:59 AM
I bought my wasr 10/63 at river city gun exchange in Sacramento for 579 a few months back

Scuba Steve33
05-30-2012, 9:10 AM
Some of the guys on here have created a mod to make the underfolder inoperable with the stock collapsed thus making it legal. I have an idea that would work the same with any folding stock however it would be a PITA to do to an already assembled rifle. There are build parties all the time and you can build your own - good luck with the search button, or use google. Just make sure you avoid IO rifles or you will be in for a nightmare.

What's the deal with IO rifles? I don't mind having to work with the stock to make it non-collapsible. I'm just not familiar with AKs as much as M4s and such so I don't know all about their stocks and such.

If you want to keep the stock functional you must make the rifle at lest 30" with the stock folded, this usually means a barrel extension.

Depending on your location an EBR shop may be your best bet. In San Diego you have Parallax Tactical and DAS for top notch shops to help you out and answer all your questions.

I don't mind if it's non-functional. I'm in the Bay Area. I'll travel but don't want to leave the area.

First off what's your location, and what's your price range?
I would head to a local shop with a good selection and people who know WTF they're talking about.
I have a pretty diverse collection of AK's, if,your in the bay area maybe we could meet at a range. All I ask is you pay for your range fee and ammo.

I'm in the Bay Area near San Jose. Gilroy actually. That's a hell of a deal I appreciate that. I'll send you a PM.

I bought my wasr 10/63 at river city gun exchange in Sacramento for 579 a few months back

Do you have a bullet button installed? How do you like it?

jeep7081
05-30-2012, 9:14 AM
Have you looked at Saiga?


http://www.jgsales.com

http://armsofamerica.com/saiga223rif...utofstock.aspx

http://centerfiresystems.com/SAI-223.aspx

MigNoche
05-30-2012, 9:17 AM
I got my AK from Riflegear.com its a California company.

Scuba Steve33
05-30-2012, 9:24 AM
Have you looked at Saiga?


http://www.jgsales.com

http://armsofamerica.com/saiga223rif...utofstock.aspx

http://centerfiresystems.com/SAI-223.aspx

I like Saigas. When we got back to NY (where I was stationed) a buddy bought a Saiga. It was a lot of fun and a great weapon but I've always wanted an AK. Especially after being on the receiving end of it many times I have a new-found respect for it. ;) The original AK look is very appealing to me.

I got my AK from Riflegear.com its a California company.

Who made it? Nice site so far, thanks.

NYsteveZ
05-30-2012, 9:25 AM
I have NUMEROUS AKs of different flavors....Sidefolding, underfolding and classic stock-all legal. I.O. inc AKs SUCK and have very poor quality even though they are made in the USA. Atlantic Firearms is good to go, and Ive purchased a Vepr from them a few months back.
You didnt mention what you want to spend, but a great entry level AK would be a Wasr. Make sure you check for canted sites, mag wobble and bent gas tubes. Century has improved by leaps and bounds but its still better to check for these three things. A Zastava PAP M70 is a step up from the Wasr, but a little more, and then the highest priced ones would be Arsenals.
I am in San Diego, and my side/underfolders are operable, but this is due to the custom barrel extensions on them. +1 for DAS (Direct Action Solutions) and if you speak to them they can maybe ship one to your FFL. I got a Polish underfolder and Tantal from them. Also...Do you want 7.62 or 5.45?

jeep7081
05-30-2012, 9:27 AM
I like Saigas. When we got back to NY (where I was stationed) a buddy bought a Saiga. It was a lot of fun and a great weapon but I've always wanted an AK. Especially after being on the receiving end of it many times I have a new-found respect for it. ;) The original AK look is very appealing to me.



Who made it? Nice site so far, thanks.

You're welcome. Saiga is AK47 ;) Made in Russia. You mean you like the wood like. Gotcha.

Saiga comes in .223, 7.62, and .308

emptybottle151
05-30-2012, 9:29 AM
Get a AK 74 parts kit and attend a build party.
http://ak-builder.com/
http://whatacountry.com/parts-kits.aspx

Scuba Steve33
05-30-2012, 9:33 AM
I have NUMEROUS AKs of different flavors....Sidefolding, underfolding and classic stock-all legal. I.O. inc AKs SUCK and have very poor quality even though they are made in the USA. Atlantic Firearms is good to go, and Ive purchased a Vepr from them a few months back.
You didnt mention what you want to spend, but a great entry level AK would be a Wasr. Make sure you check for canted sites, mag wobble and bent gas tubes. Century has improved by leaps and bounds but its still better to check for these three things. A Zastava PAP M70 is a step up from the Wasr, but a little more, and then the highest priced ones would be Arsenals.
I am in San Diego, and my side/underfolders are operable, but this is due to the custom barrel extensions on them. +1 for DAS (Direct Action Solutions) and if you speak to them they can maybe ship one to your FFL. I got a Polish underfolder and Tantal from them. Also...Do you want 7.62 or 5.45?

Thanks for the reply. The link I posted to Atlantic had it for 650 and I was comfortable spending that but I know that may be on the low end for AKs. Of course the less I spend the better but I don't want to sacrifice much quality. I'm not sure what they go for but if I could get something decent for around 700 I'd be happy. I don't want to have barrel extensions, I'd rather have the stock locked in the fixed position. I want 7.62.

Also, I hear California is trying to get rid of the bullet button feature to make these guns illegal. Anyone hear anything more about this?

You're welcome. Saiga is AK47 ;) Made in Russia. You mean you like the wood like. Gotcha.

Saiga comes in .223, 7.62, and .308

I did not know that, thank you. Yes I'm a fan of the wood haha.

Get a AK 74 parts kit and attend a build party.
http://ak-builder.com/
http://whatacountry.com/parts-kits.aspx

Hmm, that could be interesting. I'm pretty backed up on projects now though. Not sure I want to do that versus buying a complete one.

IEatZ28
05-30-2012, 9:44 AM
Bullet buttons arnt horrible, but they're not great. If you get the hang of if it's alright. I've got 2 Saigas (S223&S308) and one the S223 I have a raddlock which so far is my favorite cause it's kinda easy to use once you get the hang of it. And on my S308 i got the BB that clamps on the magazine release and ya gotta stick a bullet or something in to detach the magazine it's a PITA because my mag release is pretty darn stiff.
I also just got a solar tactical-like mag lock off amazon for my polish UnderFolder kit, can't tell ya how that one works cause the gun is still in pieces ;-).

And in all honesty, it's cheaper, more fun, and you'll get even MORE respect if you build it from a kit at a party or something.

emptybottle151
05-30-2012, 9:52 AM
If they ban the BB you can always go featureless. I know you want a AK47 7.62x39 but you can't beat ammo prices for the AK74 5.54x39
http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/rifle-ammunition/545x39?sort=asc&order=Price

13204u
05-30-2012, 9:52 AM
If you want to be in at your budget just go over to Henderson Defense and pick up an AK from them. While they were on a really LONG hiatus their website is up and running again and restocked. This was due to the fact they moved their shop and had the gentleman whom took care of most of their website leave the company. They inspect all their century AKs for defects and do not ship the ones with issues to customers, so you won't have to worry about that problem endemic to them. BTW the only time site cant issues are truely a problem is if the gun can't be sighted in at all. I have a TGI AMD that while the sight post is straight it literally has the front sight drum pushed all the way to the left to zero it, works fine though. Henderson Defense is also extremely California friendly. I have bought and had them middleman me alot of stuff over the years. They a very easy to deal with and highly recommended. They may not have the selection that Atlantic Firearms does but I have never had an issue with them. What ever you decide to do, good luck!

http://www.hendersondefense.com/store/pc/AK47-Rifles-and-Carbines-c50.htm

NYsteveZ
05-30-2012, 9:53 AM
Remember with the price that Atlantic is asking, you have to add the bullet button to the cart, pay for shipping, and when it arrives at your gun shop, you WILL have to pay Cali. sales tax on top of DROS fees which are about $25. There is also another AK showing up called the M10, which is very tacti-cool looking and about your price range, but it does not have that classic look.
Ah...the bullet button issue. No one knows where that is going, but we will see. There is way too much to post in this reply about that, but here- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=576813

dbo31
05-30-2012, 10:01 AM
I am in San Diego, and my side/underfolders are operable, but this is due to the custom barrel extensions on them. +1 for DAS (Direct Action Solutions) and if you speak to them they can maybe ship one to your FFL. I got a Polish underfolder and Tantal from them. Also...Do you want 7.62 or 5.45?


DAS got my underfolder GTG with the extension..great guys

MigNoche
05-30-2012, 10:03 AM
I like Saigas. When we got back to NY (where I was stationed) a buddy bought a Saiga. It was a lot of fun and a great weapon but I've always wanted an AK. Especially after being on the receiving end of it many times I have a new-found respect for it. ;) The original AK look is very appealing to me.



Who made it? Nice site so far, thanks.

The one I got was a Romanian Wasr 10/63. I think I paid $450 for it in 2011.

ZX-10R
05-30-2012, 10:05 AM
If you want to keep the stock functional you must make the rifle at lest 30" with the stock folded, this usually means a barrel extension.

Depending on your location an EBR shop may be your best bet. In San Diego you have Parallax Tactical and DAS for top notch shops to help you out and answer all your questions.

DAS IMO has the best selection in regards to AK patterns. You can do the Atlantic purchase but inspection is key for me.

ZX-10R
05-30-2012, 10:11 AM
I have NUMEROUS AKs of different flavors....Sidefolding, underfolding and classic stock-all legal. I.O. inc AKs SUCK and have very poor quality even though they are made in the USA. Atlantic Firearms is good to go, and Ive purchased a Vepr from them a few months back.
You didnt mention what you want to spend, but a great entry level AK would be a Wasr. Make sure you check for canted sites, mag wobble and bent gas tubes. Century has improved by leaps and bounds but its still better to check for these three things. A Zastava PAP M70 is a step up from the Wasr, but a little more, and then the highest priced ones would be Arsenals.
I am in San Diego, and my side/underfolders are operable, but this is due to the custom barrel extensions on them. +1 for DAS (Direct Action Solutions) and if you speak to them they can maybe ship one to your FFL. I got a Polish underfolder and Tantal from them. Also...Do you want 7.62 or 5.45?

This is your answer...Steve and I shop at the same place though I live in Norcal...Perks of a great job.

Join a AK specific site for further information so you can filter Saiga biased responses. I would not buy a Saiga to convert...I would buy it as a rifle but that is it. There is more value and cache to an out of the box AK pattern versus a Saiga conversion but as I said, join an AK specific site for info.

CAI has upped their game but don't spread that to much Steve...I need to buy a few more AK patterns.

Good luck.

ZX-10R
05-30-2012, 10:15 AM
If you want to keep the stock functional you must make the rifle at lest 30" with the stock folded, this usually means a barrel extension.

Depending on your location an EBR shop may be your best bet. In San Diego you have Parallax Tactical and DAS for top notch shops to help you out and answer all your questions.

DAS IMO has the best selection in regards to AK patterns. You can do the Atlantic purchase but inspection is key for me.

Scuba Steve33
05-30-2012, 10:27 AM
Bullet buttons arnt horrible, but they're not great. If you get the hang of if it's alright. I've got 2 Saigas (S223&S308) and one the S223 I have a raddlock which so far is my favorite cause it's kinda easy to use once you get the hang of it. And on my S308 i got the BB that clamps on the magazine release and ya gotta stick a bullet or something in to detach the magazine it's a PITA because my mag release is pretty darn stiff.
I also just got a solar tactical-like mag lock off amazon for my polish UnderFolder kit, can't tell ya how that one works cause the gun is still in pieces ;-).

And in all honesty, it's cheaper, more fun, and you'll get even MORE respect if you build it from a kit at a party or something.

I don't think I would mind a BB simply because I wouldn't NEED to be doing quick mag changes. It'd be nice but it's not necessary for me. I'll have to look into getting a kit and building it. Would definitely be a cool experience.

If they ban the BB you can always go featureless. I know you want a AK47 7.62x39 but you can't beat ammo prices for the AK74 5.54x39
http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/rifle-ammunition/545x39?sort=asc&order=Price

I definitely want 7.62 over 5.54 but if I can't due to a new ban then I'm SOL.

If you want to be in at your budget just go over to Henderson Defense and pick up an AK from them. While they were on a really LONG hiatus their website is up and running again and restocked. This was due to the fact they moved their shop and had the gentleman whom took care of most of their website leave the company. They inspect all their century AKs for defects and do not ship the ones with issues to customers, so you won't have to worry about that problem endemic to them. BTW the only time site cant issues are truely a problem is if the gun can't be sighted in at all. I have a TGI AMD that while the sight post is straight it literally has the front sight drum pushed all the way to the left to zero it, works fine though. Henderson Defense is also extremely California friendly. I have bought and had them middleman me alot of stuff over the years. They a very easy to deal with and highly recommended. They may not have the selection that Atlantic Firearms does but I have never had an issue with them. What ever you decide to do, good luck!

http://www.hendersondefense.com/store/pc/AK47-Rifles-and-Carbines-c50.htm

Thanks for the info! Great site from what I've seen so far. They even have a Polish AK with the para stock set up for CA. Definitely saving that link.

Remember with the price that Atlantic is asking, you have to add the bullet button to the cart, pay for shipping, and when it arrives at your gun shop, you WILL have to pay Cali. sales tax on top of DROS fees which are about $25. There is also another AK showing up called the M10, which is very tacti-cool looking and about your price range, but it does not have that classic look.
Ah...the bullet button issue. No one knows where that is going, but we will see. There is way too much to post in this reply about that, but here- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=576813

Yeah, that's why I said around 700 would be nice because that 649 is not the total price. On the high end I think I would be okay doing 800 but don't want to push too close to a grand. Thanks for the link to the other thread. Appreciate it.

The one I got was a Romanian Wasr 10/63. I think I paid $450 for it in 2011.

Thanks for the info.

DAS IMO has the best selection in regards to AK patterns. You can do the Atlantic purchase but inspection is key for me.

This is your answer...Steve and I shop at the same place though I live in Norcal...Perks of a great job.

Join a AK specific site for further information so you can filter Saiga biased responses. I would not buy a Saiga to convert...I would buy it as a rifle but that is it. There is more value and cache to an out of the box AK pattern versus a Saiga conversion but as I said, join an AK specific site for info.

CAI has upped their game but don't spread that to much Steve...I need to buy a few more AK patterns.

Good luck.

Thanks for the reply. I would definitely prefer to buy in person I was just using the Atlantic deal as an outline for what I'm looking for at what range I guess you could say.

SJgunguy24
05-30-2012, 10:32 AM
Join a AK specific site for further information so you can filter Saiga biased responses. I would not buy a Saiga to convert...I would buy it as a rifle but that is it. There is more value and cache to an out of the box AK pattern versus a Saiga conversion but as I said, join an AK specific site for info.



I don't know about that, Arsenal seems to fetch a good penny for their Saiga conversions.
The thing you do get with Saiga conversions are all matching number Russian AK's with intact OEM barrels. What would you pay for that as a kit? 6,7,800$? Think about it before making a "don't listen to the Saiga guys" comment.
People are dropping 500$ for Russian AK 74 kits without barrels, what's a Saiga cost with a cheap bulgy 74 parts kit?

FiveSeven
05-30-2012, 11:30 AM
I don't know about that, Arsenal seems to fetch a good penny for their Saiga conversions.
The thing you do get with Saiga conversions are all matching number Russian AK's with intact OEM barrels. What would you pay for that as a kit? 6,7,800$? Think about it before making a "don't listen to the Saiga guys" comment.
People are dropping 500$ for Russian AK 74 kits without barrels, what's a Saiga cost?

+1
To much nonsense and non factual opinions.
Saiga is an AK as any other AK. Properly converted it's the best quality AK one can get. Parts kits are for hobbyist and people who like to build things for no other reason then just building. They are not any better, superior or cheaper vs factory build AK (which Saiga is).
All those other AK sites are overrun by Arsenal, Krebs, Legion, Rifle Dynamics etc etc and all of them are based on Saiga. And they (companies) admit that no one is U.S can build a better receiver and barrel then what Saiga is.
Others run around with U.S made AK's from I.O, Century, Lancaster, etc that are crap build that have issues with rust, fit & finish, rivets, BC/FC group etc.
As far as AK market goes THAT is IT. No country imports a REAL military AK for U.S market (I have limited experience with Romanian and Chinese AK's and I'll pass on both same goes for Zastavas AK's noting against them, just personal preference).

If I wanted the best quality AK with wood furniture I'd get this.
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct1076.aspx
then go here
http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-ALL-SAIGA-PARTS/Categories
and here, great company Excellent product.
http://ironwooddesigns.com/IWDNEWAK74_2.html

Here's one of their walnut stocks on AK before I converted it to more practical version.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/sergey25/Guns/Image4766.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/sergey25/Guns/IMGP3321.jpg

chead
05-30-2012, 11:47 AM
Some of the guys on here have created a mod to make the underfolder inoperable with the stock collapsed thus making it legal.

It's VERY easy. Wrap a small length of rubber tube around the stock piston to prevent the button from being pushed. In fact, if you're interested in a folder, I'd say go with an underfolder if you can find one for a reasonable price. I've owned both underfolders and sidefolders and the underfolders are in my opinion easier to deal with in California and more comfortable to shoot. And they look cool ;)

Scuba Steve33
05-30-2012, 12:23 PM
+1
To much nonsense and non factual opinions.
Saiga is an AK as any other AK. Properly converted it's the best quality AK one can get. Parts kits are for hobbyist and people who like to build things for no other reason then just building. They are not any better, superior or cheaper vs factory build AK (which Saiga is).
All those other AK sites are overrun by Arsenal, Krebs, Legion, Rifle Dynamics etc etc and all of them are based on Saiga. And they (companies) admit that no one is U.S can build a better receiver and barrel then what Saiga is.
Others run around with U.S made AK's from I.O, Century, Lancaster, etc that are crap build that have issues with rust, fit & finish, rivets, BC/FC group etc.
As far as AK market goes THAT is IT. No country imports a REAL military AK for U.S market (I have limited experience with Romanian and Chinese AK's and I'll pass on both same goes for Zastavas AK's noting against them, just personal preference).

If I wanted the best quality AK with wood furniture I'd get this.
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct1076.aspx
then go here
http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-ALL-SAIGA-PARTS/Categories
and here, great company Excellent product.
http://ironwooddesigns.com/IWDNEWAK74_2.html

I enjoy building or working on things so getting a kit would interest me in that aspect. I'm semi-restoring my '70 Chevelle right now (almost done!) and that is the only reason I wouldn't want to get one because I'm trying to focus on the car and this last stretch has already been troubling. I'd also prefer to buy a complete AK than conversion kits and what not.

It's VERY easy. Wrap a small length of rubber tube around the stock piston to prevent the button from being pushed. In fact, if you're interested in a folder, I'd say go with an underfolder if you can find one for a reasonable price. I've owned both underfolders and sidefolders and the underfolders are in my opinion easier to deal with in California and more comfortable to shoot. And they look cool ;)

I definitely want the underfolder versus the sidefolder. The sidefolder was never an interest to me. I like them but not nearly as much as the unders.

NYsteveZ
05-30-2012, 12:46 PM
With the bullet button issue on the horizon, wanting to save a few bucks AND you like to tinker, a Saiga might be for you. An Arsenal AK is no more than a professionaly converted Saiga. I own an Arsenal sidefolder, but I spent a LOT to get it when I couldve converted it myself.
Like ZX-10R said, DAS is good to go and I know they have connections all over this state. Im sure they will ship to your FFL. I know they do not ship SSE pistols, but that doesnt affect you. The shop has been a zoo lately so the website isnt so up to date. They are on here, and the inventory is more up to date here and facebook. Here is my latest purchase from them- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=568561 I also know they have Wasrs, and they even had a Wasr 22 for about $350.

FiveSeven
05-30-2012, 1:11 PM
I enjoy building or working on things so getting a kit would interest me in that aspect. I'm semi-restoring my '70 Chevelle right now (almost done!) and that is the only reason I wouldn't want to get one because I'm trying to focus on the car and this last stretch has already been troubling. I'd also prefer to buy a complete AK than conversion kits and what not.

I definitely want the underfolder versus the sidefolder. The sidefolder was never an interest to me. I like them but not nearly as much as the unders.
Converting a Saiga is actually working on something which you like to do (except all the major stuff is already done)....
It's cool that you want or like the look or underfolder but from practical point of view they are horrid to shoot with. Very unnatural and it's all about sacrifice of ergonomics to have compactness (designed mainly for paratroopers, that is it). Since you live in CA you get none, no compact rifle and worse ergonomics. Shoot both at 100yd target and see exactly what I mean.
There's a very good reason why Russians dropped underfolder early on and it never transitioned to 74 model in the 70's.

But hey, at the end it's all about what your cup a tea is.

valley82
05-30-2012, 2:05 PM
Personal opinion, buy a parts kit from whatacountry, apexgunparts, Atlantic, etc. Get the flat,rivots and necessary parts from AK-BUILDER.COM. Go to a build party and build it, I attended one with my two fourteen year old sons and we all finished them that day. Nothing quite like shooting a rifle you built/assembled yourself. Check out the build party sticky at the top of.the gunsmithing forum. Just my.two cents...

Scuba Steve33
05-30-2012, 2:09 PM
With the bullet button issue on the horizon, wanting to save a few bucks AND you like to tinker, a Saiga might be for you. An Arsenal AK is no more than a professionaly converted Saiga. I own an Arsenal sidefolder, but I spent a LOT to get it when I couldve converted it myself.
Like ZX-10R said, DAS is good to go and I know they have connections all over this state. Im sure they will ship to your FFL. I know they do not ship SSE pistols, but that doesnt affect you. The shop has been a zoo lately so the website isnt so up to date. They are on here, and the inventory is more up to date here and facebook. Here is my latest purchase from them- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=568561 I also know they have Wasrs, and they even had a Wasr 22 for about $350.

Interesting stuff, thanks. I've been reading a lot of good things about Wasrs especially for a first time AK buy.

Converting a Saiga is actually working on something which you like to do (except all the major stuff is already done)....
It's cool that you want or like the look or underfolder but from practical point of view they are horrid to shoot with. Very unnatural and it's all about sacrifice of ergonomics to have compactness (designed mainly for paratroopers, that is it). Since you live in CA you get none, no compact rifle and worse ergonomics. Shoot both at 100yd target and see exactly what I mean.
There's a very good reason why Russians dropped underfolder early on and it never transitioned to 74 model in the 70's.

But hey, at the end it's all about what your cup a tea is.

I fired quite a few AKs, RPKs, PKMs, etc. in Afghanistan (even a few bursts of a DShK) to include several folding stocks. I understand they are not practical at all. Most of the shooting I do is recreational and for fun. For long and accurate fire I have other weapons. A buddy has some land that we shoot at and with what else I already have I don't mind if the stock isn't the most practical for medium range shooting. Something about the underfolder stock just appeals to me.

Personal opinion, buy a parts kit from whatacountry, apexgunparts, Atlantic, etc. Get the flat,rivots and necessary parts from AK-BUILDER.COM. Go to a build party and build it, I attended one with my two fourteen year old sons and we all finished them that day. Nothing quite like shooting a rifle you built/assembled yourself. Check out the build party sticky at the top of.the gunsmithing forum. Just my.two cents...

I'll definitely go check it out. I wouldn't mind spending a day with fellow enthusiasts building my own rifle. I definitely enjoy stepping back and admiring my own work versus paying someone to do it.

ZX-10R
05-30-2012, 6:34 PM
I don't know about that, Arsenal seems to fetch a good penny for their Saiga conversions.
The thing you do get with Saiga conversions are all matching number Russian AK's with intact OEM barrels. What would you pay for that as a kit? 6,7,800$? Think about it before making a "don't listen to the Saiga guys" comment.
People are dropping 500$ for Russian AK 74 kits without barrels, what's a Saiga cost with a cheap bulgy 74 parts kit?

A kit is a good way to go as well...Nothing wrong with it at all. I would still like to go back in time and gobble up all the Yugos I missed out on for cheap
that now go for over $900 now same for kits...They used to be dirt cheap.

Saiga...Over what? Yugo...NO. Saiga of over a Polish...NO. Saiga over a Norinco...NO. Saiga over a SAR...NO. As one forum stated in a thread...WASRs are what SARs used to be. Saigas will always be there...You can dress it up to look like whatever AK pattern you want but it is still just a Saiga conversion. Heck Yugos werethe same price as WASRs 4+ years ago...People who bought a Saiga then were the losers...Just go to gunbroker to verify that or even for sale here in Calguns...Bunch of people selling Saiga conversions for silly prices. Someone posted a Yugo here not to long ago...If I could lurk all day I would have offered more for it than what was asked...Someone posted a Saiga conversion for $600 and I laughed.

Pretty biased site Calguns. There is no denying that.

ZX-10R
05-30-2012, 6:40 PM
With the bullet button issue on the horizon, wanting to save a few bucks AND you like to tinker, a Saiga might be for you. An Arsenal AK is no more than a professionaly converted Saiga. I own an Arsenal sidefolder, but I spent a LOT to get it when I couldve converted it myself.
Like ZX-10R said, DAS is good to go and I know they have connections all over this state. Im sure they will ship to your FFL. I know they do not ship SSE pistols, but that doesnt affect you. The shop has been a zoo lately so the website isnt so up to date. They are on here, and the inventory is more up to date here and facebook. Here is my latest purchase from them- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=568561 I also know they have Wasrs, and they even had a Wasr 22 for about $350.

They had a WASR 22...I would have bought that. I called Colby and them up since a buddy is looking for a COLT 1911...I am so busy the Tantal they have is mine (paid) but undrosed...I will get down there one day when my life is not so busy and I have time. My Engineer and I are going down there one day in Mid June I believe. Let's hook up and go shooting?

ZX-10R
05-30-2012, 6:40 PM
With the bullet button issue on the horizon, wanting to save a few bucks AND you like to tinker, a Saiga might be for you. An Arsenal AK is no more than a professionaly converted Saiga. I own an Arsenal sidefolder, but I spent a LOT to get it when I couldve converted it myself.
Like ZX-10R said, DAS is good to go and I know they have connections all over this state. Im sure they will ship to your FFL. I know they do not ship SSE pistols, but that doesnt affect you. The shop has been a zoo lately so the website isnt so up to date. They are on here, and the inventory is more up to date here and facebook. Here is my latest purchase from them- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=568561 I also know they have Wasrs, and they even had a Wasr 22 for about $350.

They had a WASR 22...I would have bought that. I called Colby and them up since a buddy is looking for a COLT 1911...I am so busy the Tantal they have is mine (paid) but undrosed...I will get down there one day when my life is not so busy and I have time. My Engineer and I are going down there one day in Mid June I believe. Let's hook up and go shooting? I'll bring my crappy CAI guns.:p I'll PM you.

FiveSeven
05-31-2012, 7:57 AM
I know I'm :beatdeadhorse5: but hey, whatever.
I'm not on the mission to change anyone's mind and would actually prefer people don't think to high of a Saiga conversion as it would keep the price lower for the rest of us (who know what it is).


Saiga...Over what? Yugo...NO.
Yes, Saiga has chromed lined barrel, factory receiver, newer/improved bolt-carier etc. Yugo has neither except good for nothing grenade launcher/gas cutoff parts that serve only as extra weight + Who's the biggest re-manufacturer? Century? Or the best route is home building it?
No thanks I'll take Saiga which is more of an AK then out of specs Yugo.

Saiga of over a Polish...NO.
When was the last time a real polish AK was sold here?
All of them are build from parts kits, be it U.S manufacturer or home builder and that itself makes it a pass in my book. Not a Polish AK by any means, more of a hybrid of parts and shouldn't be even called Polish unless it was actually made there.
Even if there was a real Polish, What exactly make it better then Saiga converted AK? How is it better? Polish make better guns all of a sudden even though it's a copy with a slight mod?

Saiga over a Norinco...NO.
Since when did Chinese Norico factory are known as a craftsmanship quality company. Last time I saw Norico AK's they had tool marks all over as though made in 5'th grade metal shop. Horrible fit & finish and rough FCG that would cut you if your not careful in detail striping it.
One reason I can even think of anyone owning a"real" Norico AK is for collection purpose and not for it's superior build over other AK's (which is laughable) not to mention in CA you can't buy one so it's a moot point to begin with.

Saiga over a SAR...NO.
Yes, Saiga over.
No Romanian rifle is better made then a Russian one, it just does not exist. Fit and finish is not even close, if anything they are the AK's that gave AK a bad name as a crude, cheap poorly build guns. It offers absolutely nothing what Saiga is. If stating that somehow they're better is delusional or dishonest with oneself.

As one forum stated in a thread...WASRs are what SARs used to be. Saigas will always be there. You can dress it up to look like whatever AK pattern you want but it is still just a Saiga conversion.
True, you can call it WASR or SAR's it's still a Romanian build AK, I'll pass. I fired/handled a few and own one of their pistols and I'm fully aware what they are.
Saiga is a better quality made AK then any WASR.

Heck Yugos werethe same price as WASRs 4+ years ago...
Honestly, no offense to their owners here and I'm only stating my own views here but I'd pass both no matter how inexpensive they were (if I had to keep them - not re sell).

People who bought a Saiga then were the losers...Just go to gunbroker to verify that or even for sale here in Calguns...Bunch of people selling Saiga conversions for silly prices.
Someone posted a Yugo here not to long ago...If I could lurk all day I would have offered more for it than what was asked...Someone posted a Saiga conversion for $600 and I laughed.

Saiga conversion are like AR mods, not everyone likes cheap furniture or parts that were put in it. People will change stuff on it and it will cost more.
Arsenal and Krebs are Saiga conversions, show me one for $600 here. If I saw Krebs for even a $1,000 I'd get it in a heartbeat but won't even consider a Yugo for $300.

SDS-Ruger
05-31-2012, 2:35 PM
thanks all for the good info. Some very good links in this thread.

ZX-10R
05-31-2012, 7:44 PM
Do the research OP you owe it to yourself not to rely on one source of information.

Let me know when anyone wants to go shooting and put the boutique guns to test. Open challenge for over a year. :43: