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tinman1
05-28-2012, 4:10 PM
I've been reading up on building an AR pistol in CA. From what I've read the only way to be legal is to use an 80% lower because you can't buy a pistol lower in CA, and to use a stripped lower you get in trouble with he feds because they see it as an AOW.
However, Franklin Armory now builds an AR that CA designates as a pistol with a 11.5" barrel and a vertical fore grip (photo attached). They have a letter from ATF that states that since it has a VFG it is not a pistol, and since it's over 26" in OAL it's not an AOW. They classify it as a 'firearm' only, with no special licensing or tax stamps (ATF letter attached).
Since the ATF doesn't have a problem with it, could we now build an AR pistol in this configuration from a stripped lower in CA? Could it be volregged in CA as a pistol even though it was DROSsed in CA as a long gun? Again, we're talking a stripped receiver that's never been built.
I have a couple of lowers in the safe, and I see no reason to buy another that's an 80% and machine it if I don't have to to be legal. The wealth of knowledge on this site is awesome, and I know someone on this board has the skinny. Thanks.

Baconator
05-28-2012, 4:49 PM
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

j.hors
05-28-2012, 4:58 PM
Wouldn't California view that as a short barrel rifle? I mean they view the Judge as a short barrel shotgun

Dark Sky Solutions
05-28-2012, 4:59 PM
Yes you can. 14th ammendment. If it is ok with the ATF for FA to do it it has to be OK for everyone else.

CA laws now that is trickier. Some say yes some say no.

This is not legal advice at all just my understanding of the law.

Dark Sky Solutions
05-28-2012, 5:00 PM
Wouldn't California view that as a short barrel rifle? I mean they view the Judge as a short barrel shotgun

It can't be a SBR since it has no butstock or the capability of jut putting one on there.

They consider the judge a short barrel shotgun cause it fires a shotgun round. The AR pistol can fire a rifle or pistol round depending on the build and barrel

tinman1
05-28-2012, 6:19 PM
I'm more concerned with the CA laws. Apparently the BATFE doesn't have a problem with it since it's not a pistol, SBR or AOW. However, CA designates it as a pistol. Under CA law can you build a pistol using a stripped lower that's not marked PISTOL?

shooperman
05-28-2012, 6:50 PM
If you originally purchase a lower reciever from a shop, chances are it has already been designated as a "long gun"/rifle reciever. The only way that I am aware of, to legally build an AR pistol, is to mill one yourself from an 80% lower. Depending on where you're located, check out this link for more details. What's up Doc, you know what I'm talking about!!

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=563331&highlight=80%25

shooperman
05-28-2012, 6:52 PM
Oh and to answer your question, using a stripped lower designated as a rifle lower, and using it to build a pistol is a big no no.

killmime1234
05-28-2012, 6:54 PM
CA state still defines it as a pistol. As far as the Feds are concerned you'd be good, but the state classifies it differently and since you'd be DROSing the frame in CA, you'd be DROSing the frame as a long gun which means making it into a pistol (per CA) is a no-no.

I'd look into NeRFs if you're interested, but remember it's controversial at this stage of the game.

wildhawker
05-28-2012, 7:03 PM
It's disheartening to read this thread when so many entirely on-point reference threads - not to mention the Wiki - can be found with a simple search.

-Brandon

Dark Sky Solutions
05-28-2012, 7:25 PM
If you originally purchase a lower reciever from a shop, chances are it has already been designated as a "long gun"/rifle reciever. The only way that I am aware of, to legally build an AR pistol, is to mill one yourself from an 80% lower. Depending on where you're located, check out this link for more details. What's up Doc, you know what I'm talking about!!

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=563331&highlight=80%25

What's up Shoop? Same old' here. Just finishing up my last project soon. Waiting for my 21 lb box of duracoat products to come in lol. Then time to start another!!!!

Ps. Shooperman knows what he's talking about

wildhawker
05-28-2012, 7:31 PM
Ps. Shooperman knows what he's talking about

No, he doesn't.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/images/the-blind-leading-the-blind.jpg

-Brandon

Purple K
05-28-2012, 9:06 PM
Here's the method I used to get my AR-type pistol. I purchased all of the parts that I would need to assemble the pistol, except the lower receiver. I took my box of parts ( 10 1/2" upper, LPK, pistol buffer/tube, single shot magazine, etc.) to my local 07 FFL. I paid the FFL a nominal fee to assemble my parts as a pistol on a stripped lower in his inventory. I then purchased the SSE pistol. DROS'd as a pistol. No issues.

ssaction
05-28-2012, 9:26 PM
Here's the method I used to get my AR-type pistol. I purchased all of the parts that I would need to assemble the pistol, except the lower receiver. I took my box of parts ( 10 1/2" upper, LPK, pistol buffer/tube, single shot magazine, etc.) to my local 07 FFL. I paid the FFL a nominal fee to assemble my parts as a pistol on a stripped lower in his inventory. I then purchased the SSE pistol. DROS'd as a pistol. No issues.

This is how I did it too. Just make sure your lower is DROS's as a pistol.

Palmaris
05-28-2012, 11:53 PM
Why just don't buy Franklin Armory SSE pistol-they have all flavors available.

phrogg111
05-29-2012, 3:58 AM
I saw a guy who bought a single shot ar pistol and converted it, using a bb and 10 rd mag. Because he purchased a single shot pistol, it also got around dumb laws, and was registered as a pistol.

killmime1234
05-29-2012, 4:49 AM
Here's the method I used to get my AR-type pistol. I purchased all of the parts that I would need to assemble the pistol, except the lower receiver. I took my box of parts ( 10 1/2" upper, LPK, pistol buffer/tube, single shot magazine, etc.) to my local 07 FFL. I paid the FFL a nominal fee to assemble my parts as a pistol on a stripped lower in his inventory. I then purchased the SSE pistol. DROS'd as a pistol. No issues.



You have to be careful doing it this way. If you possess a regular rifle AR and also possess a <16" barrel without already owning an AR pistol, you then have constructive possession of an SBR (Felony). Basically, the only way you could legally do what you're describing is to either:
a. Own no AR rifles before you do this
Or
B. already own at least 1 AR pistol

Purple K
05-29-2012, 9:05 AM
Technically correct about the constructive possession. However, all of the rifle lowers in my possession were complete rifles, not just a completed lower. Not having a completed lower without a corresponding rifle upper attached minimizes your potential. Also, within an hour of UPS delivering my pistol upper, I was enroure to the FFL.

Capybara
05-29-2012, 9:45 AM
I just had one built by www.ebrworks.com It came out great.

The range I shoot at has a Franklin XO-26 in rental and they have one for sale in their case. I would consider just buying it and be done with it. For all of the hassle you will go through, the Franklin is just as good, if not better and will have a factory warranty.

Capybara
05-29-2012, 1:51 PM
Calling Tinman http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=577786