PDA

View Full Version : Saiga 12 for trap


Hallz
05-28-2012, 1:46 PM
when I was looking to buy my Saiga I saw a lot of people bad mouthing the Saiga for trap/skeet shooting. Despite the negative comments I bought it anyway.
I am happy to report that I did not find this to be true at all! My first time on the line I was 5/5 and over 80% for the day. For now I'll chalk it up to beginners luck.

There was one disadvantage I did notice, reloading! Releasing the mag and reloading does take more time. But no issues with cycling even cheap target loads or accuracy!
A few mags are a must!!!

BigDogatPlay
05-28-2012, 5:48 PM
What trap range is letting you load more than two shells, and for doubles at that, that you need to have a bunch of extra mags?

Just curious.

NorCalK9.com
05-28-2012, 7:16 PM
I wish i had a saiga 12.
But my legacy semi auto went 4/5 in my back yard and ive never shot clays before.
Heres a pic.
http://i.imgur.com/X5Ki3.jpg

ysr_racer
05-28-2012, 7:39 PM
You can pound a nail with a golf club, but that doesn't make it a hammer.

NorCalK9.com
05-28-2012, 7:47 PM
@ysrracer.
Whats that mean?
Is the saiga not a shotgun?

WDE91
05-28-2012, 9:47 PM
@ysrracer.
Whats that mean?
Is the saiga not a shotgun?

Its pretty obvious
yes the Saiga is a shotgun
just like a Remington 870 AOW with a 12" barrel is a "shotgun"

use the right tool for the job
there are certain tools that are more capable at being used for multiple things

and maybe for the OP the Saiga is his multi tool
I would find the Saiga to be rude crude and cumbersome trying to shoot trap with
lots of extra movement

Hallz
05-28-2012, 10:38 PM
Its pretty obvious
yes the Saiga is a shotgun
just like a Remington 870 AOW with a 12" barrel is a "shotgun"

use the right tool for the job
there are certain tools that are more capable at being used for multiple things

and maybe for the OP the Saiga is his multi tool
I would find the Saiga to be rude crude and cumbersome trying to shoot trap with
lots of extra movement

I get were you are comming from. Luckly I was at a public shooting area with the convenience of falily and friends willing to waite a few seconds to pop the mag every change in shooters to load, if restricted to 2...... It would not be fun!!!!

I can deffinetly see the advantages of other SG's. This was more for the na sayers flapping their gums about the acuracy of S12's.

Even if there was no bullet button, it is a lot of extra motion and possible delay. I may end up with another auto loading SG after all.
Next time I'll take my pump and possibly the S12 with a holographic site.

KWalkerM
05-28-2012, 11:16 PM
I get were you are comming from. Luckly I was at a public shooting area with the convenience of falily and friends willing to waite a few seconds to pop the mag every change in shooters to load, if restricted to 2...... It would not be fun!!!!

I can deffinetly see the advantages of other SG's. This was more for the na sayers flapping their gums about the acuracy of S12's.

Even if there was no bullet button, it is a lot of extra motion and possible delay. I may end up with another auto loading SG after all.
Next time I'll take my pump and possibly the S12 with a holographic site.

Dont listen to the naysayers, bring it out all the time. I shoot tuesday nights with my buddies and one of us always brings some unwieldy terrible trap shooting shotgun in addition to our regular pieces. My buddy has a saiga 12 he brings that or a tac'ed out shortbarreled 870. i bring my .410 rossi circuit judge that overall is barely 26 inches long and has a cylinder choke on an 18 inch barrel. To put it in perspective my 12 gauge barrel is longer than my .410. It breaks up the monotony when you have someone shooting a funky gun. Its a game, enjoy it! We also try to pick up each others misses. Which is always cool with a short barreled gun.

Slim///
05-29-2012, 12:06 AM
Never mind the naysayers, As long as you're having a good time and being safe, that's all that matters.

IntoForever
05-29-2012, 12:44 AM
I shoot with my saiga 12 all the time now and it's easier to hit clays than my 23" barrel shotgun. I hit at least 20/25 with groups of 5 in a row and I suspect some of the misses are due to not having a choke yet. Yugo seems to have fun as well. I can't wait to convert it and put a .5 choke on it!

ysr_racer
05-29-2012, 5:54 AM
use the right tool for the job


Yep, that's where I was going.

Can you do it? Sure. Is it the right tool for the job? No.

CSACANNONEER
05-29-2012, 6:10 AM
I get were you are comming from. Luckly I was at a public shooting area with the convenience of falily and friends willing to waite a few seconds to pop the mag every change in shooters to load, if restricted to 2...... It would not be fun!!!!

I can deffinetly see the advantages of other SG's. This was more for the na sayers flapping their gums about the acuracy of S12's.

Even if there was no bullet button, it is a lot of extra motion and possible delay. I may end up with another auto loading SG after all.
Next time I'll take my pump and possibly the S12 with a holographic site.

So, you were just throwing clays at a public shooting area and not on a trap range? There's a big difference between that and an actual trap range. I've hit almost every clay I've ever shot at with a 7 1/2" barrelled KEG-12 but, the thrower was next to me. If it had been 16 yards in front of me, I would have missed more than a few.

I do not know of a trap range that allows you to load more than one round per clay being thrown. In other words, no more than 2 rounds in the gun IF you are shooting doubles. This is a safety rule that should ALWAYS be followed.

Why isn't the S12 a good choice for trap? It would be like entering a crotch rocket in an freestyle motorcross competition. It's just the wrong tool for the job.

Hallz
05-29-2012, 8:19 AM
So, you were just throwing clays at a public shooting area and not on a trap range? There's a big difference between that and an actual trap range. I've hit almost every clay I've ever shot at with a 7 1/2" barrelled KEG-12 but, the thrower was next to me. If it had been 16 yards in front of me, I would have missed more than a few.

I do not know of a trap range that allows you to load more than one round per clay being thrown. In other words, no more than 2 rounds in the gun IF you are shooting doubles. This is a safety rule that should ALWAYS be followed.


That could be a PIA with the Saiga. For this reason I can Deffinetly see the opposition to using a S12 for the activity.

We also try to pick up each others misses. Which is always cool with a short barreled gun.

Thats what we were doing as well and were my misses were. As shooter 1&2 at the furthest position from the thrower (about 20') I was 100%.

It was still fun and I will deffinetly be doing more. Bitter sweet reality is, I'll probably be buying another "tool"

Good news is, I have a few diffrent sb's to sell and no longer need.

bruss01
05-29-2012, 9:46 AM
Its pretty obvious
yes the Saiga is a shotgun
just like a Remington 870 AOW with a 12" barrel is a "shotgun"

use the right tool for the job
there are certain tools that are more capable at being used for multiple things

and maybe for the OP the Saiga is his multi tool
I would find the Saiga to be rude crude and cumbersome trying to shoot trap with
lots of extra movement

So, tell me how the average person who owns a Saiga 12 for home defense, civil unrest, zombie uprising is supposed to be able to gain proficiency at standing up, taking out moving targets? Most ranges only allow firing at static targets, and most ranges I know of only allow firing long-arms from a bench rest. That is in no way any kind of real preparation or practice to use a weapon intended for CQB where the adversary is moving at you rapidly from possibly several directions. The exception is the trap/skeet fields, where standing and hitting moving targets is what everyone is (ostensibly) there for. Now you're going to say to the tactical shotgun crowd "You don't fit in here, we don't want you around with those EEEEEVIL looking bastardized freak shotguns?"

The suitability of the gun for trap/skeet depends on why one is there in the first place. Is it to impress your banker and lawyer with your $3000 engraved shotgun? Or is it to gain skill to defend your life? There needs to be room in what is rapidly degenerating into a snooty rich-boys club for folks who want to be able to plunk down a couple bucks a few times a month to get good at hitting moving targets. No, it's not a perfect simulation but it's the closest the average joe is going to get in this day and age. I have a Mossberg 590 shotgun... it's a pump but too "tactical" for the elite duck & pheasant blasters... I didn't care and went to the skeet fields week after week until I got good at picking up the doubles, yes with a heavy, overweight muzzle bore choke (i.e. NONE) pump shotgun. That level of skill gave me confidence in using the weapon for defense, and also put me at a level of competence where I can really benefit from a formal combat shotgun class. Without going in with this level of experience, it would have been a VERY steep learning curve for me.

So word to all the members of the snooty polished wood and engraved steel club... make room for the tactical guys. Your "sport" is not only for the rich, and not only for the hunters of watefowl or upland game.

WDE91
05-29-2012, 10:01 AM
nice try...
My used Wingmaster which is a very nice looking gun was $235 out the door
I bought another barrel for $125
so I have got a gun that hunt,home defense,shoot clays for $360 ya, thats clearly a $3k gun...

If Im not mistaken a Saiga is at least DOUBLE what I have got into my Wingmaster...

WDE91
05-29-2012, 10:05 AM
So if anything I have got the better buy here
Classy=check
multitool=check
HALF as much=check

you seem to have a chip on your shoulder against people who like different things than you and some of whom own more expensive things

Sent from my Iphone while driving my BMW
yours truely
Joseph Kearns

IntoForever
05-29-2012, 10:26 AM
So, you were just throwing clays at a public shooting area and not on a trap range? There's a big difference between that and an actual trap range. I've hit almost every clay I've ever shot at with a 7 1/2" barrelled KEG-12 but, the thrower was next to me. If it had been 16 yards in front of me, I would have missed more than a few.

I do not know of a trap range that allows you to load more than one round per clay being thrown. In other words, no more than 2 rounds in the gun IF you are shooting doubles. This is a safety rule that should ALWAYS be followed.

Why isn't the S12 a good choice for trap? It would be like entering a crotch rocket in an freestyle motorcross competition. It's just the wrong tool for the job.
As long as your target moved, you hit it! :D

Angeles allowed me to have fully loaded magazines in my S-12 and the range officers were watching me.

Just like the KEG? I don't see any problem when practicing regarding "right tool" however I wouldn't try to take fowl with #8 in a S-12 unless I had a choke on it. Some of us are out there for fun, just like when I shoot at the steel, no way to really tell how accurate I am, I just like hearing the ping!

bruss01
05-29-2012, 10:30 AM
So if anything I have got the better buy here
Classy=check
multitool=check
HALF as much=check

you seem to have a chip on your shoulder against people who like different things than you and some of whom own more expensive things

Sent from my Iphone while driving my BMW
yours truely
Joseph Kearns

I have a bit of a chip against rich bastards who look down their nose at others who have a different "take" on things... which I experienced PLENTY of out shooting skeet with my 590.

Nothing wrong if you want a certain tool, want to play the game a certain way... but the grunts of disgust and disparaging looks... yeah, that's a "sportsman"... what a sport.

Paradiddle
05-29-2012, 10:50 AM
I have a bit of a chip against rich bastards who look down their nose at others who have a different "take" on things... which I experienced PLENTY of out shooting skeet with my 590.

Nothing wrong if you want a certain tool, want to play the game a certain way... but the grunts of disgust and disparaging looks... yeah, that's a "sportsman"... what a sport.

I think you are having trouble comprehending the words other people are using in this thread.

Your responses seem based on a misunderstanding.

Hallz
05-29-2012, 11:09 AM
.



What do you guys think of the 9 shot Mossberg 930 JM Pro as a multi tool?
http://www.mossberg.com/press/pdf/79.pdf


.

CSACANNONEER
05-29-2012, 12:19 PM
As long as your target moved, you hit it! :D

Angeles allowed me to have fully loaded magazines in my S-12 and the range officers were watching me.


Angeles doesn't have a trap range. They just have throwers next to the shooters. Regulation trap has rules that don't always apply at public blasting ranges.

Paradiddle
05-29-2012, 1:43 PM
.



What do you guys think of the 9 shot Mossberg 930 JM Pro as a multi tool?


.

Funny - that is identical to the mod's I put on my 930. Took a bird 930, had Dave at DMW cut the barrel down, thread for chokes, 8 round tube, larger bolt handle, welded feed ramp - wala - a poor mans Benny Hill Benelli.

Mine runs great - I think that would be a great shotgun for most things.

KWalkerM
05-29-2012, 2:30 PM
I shoot at regulation trap with .410. Shooting clays at the 16 yd line is tough but im averaging 15-18 clays out of 25 with it whereas im hitting 23/25 with my 12 gauge autoloader with an ejector akin to a booster rocket. Thank god for shell catchers. Anyway i digress. Im not a fan of the snooty shooters either and thats why i try to shoot my .410 in their squad. Its fun as long as you dont be rude or interrupt their routine.

BigJ
05-29-2012, 2:53 PM
I listened to the naysayers way back when, and bought myself a beautiful Citori O/U right out of the gate. I shot sporting clays and trap with it for a couple years, and got to the point where 23/25 was a guarantee.

I basically got to the point where I had to decide if investing in a stock that fit me exactly right was worth it ($1000+ minimum). And then, I get to spend thousands of rounds finding that 24th consistently, and THEN I get to spend 10s of thousands more finding that 99/100. As a hobbyist non-sponsored non-reloading full time+ job working man for-fun shooter, I decided it wasn't worth it. I can have just as much fun shooting 23s, and the occasional good day's 24 or 25 as I might have 10 years from now shooting 98 or 99/100.

So I locked the Citori up in the safe and started taking out the 18" Benelli Nova to get some practice with it. Guess what? Yup... after an initial adjustment period my numbers are right back where they were with the Citori. The Citori has recently found a new home.

I definitely don't regret buying one of 'the best' production "sporting clay" shotguns right off the bat, but on this side of things I am convinced that with a little practice, anyone can have fun with pretty much any shotgun they take out. Yeah, you're gonna see more than a few noses up in the air when you show up with your blacked out tacticool 18" pump. But ya know, those looks have a way of disappearing when the dust starts flying ;)

Hallz
05-29-2012, 3:03 PM
Anyway i digress. Im not a fan of the snooty shooters either and thats why i try to shoot my .410 in their squad. Its fun as long as you dont be rude or interrupt their routine.

That is part of the reason I bought it, you have the people that buy a gun off the prestige or drool factor of their friends but can not shoot worth crap.

I love the WTF or wispers alternate arms cause. The irritation factor from the guys that have spent 2-3x (or more) on a Mall Ninja AR, TOL Benelli, High End or Custom 1911 and get out shot by something they have never seen or touched for them selves = Priceless!

Case in point, the S12's and HiPoint carbines. Way to many people have only read about them on the internet or talked to someone that read something on the net.

Putting your finger on the trigger a few times and lead down range yourself is the only way to truly know what works for you and what does'nt

Lifeon2whls
05-29-2012, 3:07 PM
Why isn't the S12 a good choice for trap? It would be like entering a crotch rocket in an freestyle motorcross competition. It's just the wrong tool for the job.

Not quite a Freestyle competition but hey...

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307965

That said, I LOVE going to the range with something totally out of its element and showing up people who are regulars with all of their fancy equipment. Give me a S12 all day to shoot against someone with a really nice over/under :)

BigJ
05-29-2012, 3:07 PM
LOL. I hear ya, and agree to some extent, but don't swing too far the other way. The truth is you with your bowie knife will NEVER out cut a surgeon with a scalpel in his or her hand ;).

Just keep it low key, get your hits in and let the dust fall where it may :)

Mana4real
05-29-2012, 3:09 PM
I shoot at regulation trap with .410. Shooting clays at the 16 yd line is tough but im averaging 15-18 clays out of 25 with it whereas im hitting 23/25 with my 12 gauge autoloader with an ejector akin to a booster rocket. Thank god for shell catchers. Anyway i digress. Im not a fan of the snooty shooters either and thats why i try to shoot my .410 in their squad. Its fun as long as you dont be rude or interrupt their routine.

I had a bunch of guys giving me a hard time when I was shooting my .410 at trap a few months ago. I think that motivated me to do better then them all which I did. I hit 21 that round LOL (that was my best round ever with the .410). I've only shot the .410 around ten times at trap. To expensive to do all the time. I only reload 12 gauge. I can normally hit 22-25 at trap with my full choke 12 gauge. Skeet, Looks like I'm starting to average in the 21-22 area. Just need more practice. But it's funny when you have guys that get the wrong impression about someone. I just go out to have a good time. Skeet I'm happy with anything over 20 since I just started. Trap, I like to see 23 or better.

Hallz
05-29-2012, 3:09 PM
Yeah, you're gonna see more than a few noses up in the air when you show up with your blacked out tacticool 18" pump. But ya know, those looks have a way of disappearing when the dust starts flying ;)

I am with you there, Thanks for the input!

IntoForever
05-29-2012, 4:15 PM
Angeles doesn't have a trap range. They just have throwers next to the shooters. Regulation trap has rules that don't always apply at public blasting ranges.
:shrug: I just like to shoot the flying orange things. :D

stix213
05-29-2012, 4:45 PM
My Saiga 12 with 22" barrel and adjustable polychoke hits clays just fine all day. Reloading is also not difficult. I generally just flip out my wave opening EDC knife and activate the mag release with it. If I was rushed for time I can swap the mag out and chamber a round in about 2 seconds. I don't do regulation trap, so not sure how I'd do with it, but just out shooting clays with my buddies I typically get around 90%.

Bottom of the pic
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/9535/img1009m.jpg

ysr_racer
05-29-2012, 4:54 PM
Hell, I know a guy that can throw rocks and hit clays tagrets, that doesn't make it the best way to break them.

TZL
05-29-2012, 5:52 PM
I love saiga 12s (own 4 of them) but its far from an ideal clay weapon

Reloading makes it a pita......which is why I'm usually sporting my Beretta A400 xtreme or my o/u

I used my EO tech equipped akdal 1919 to bust some clays this weekend, much easier to do mag changes...compared to a S12....

CSACANNONEER
05-29-2012, 6:07 PM
I shoot at regulation trap with .410. Shooting clays at the 16 yd line is tough but im averaging 15-18 clays out of 25 with it whereas im hitting 23/25 with my 12 gauge autoloader with an ejector akin to a booster rocket. Thank god for shell catchers. Anyway i digress. Im not a fan of the snooty shooters either and thats why i try to shoot my .410 in their squad. Its fun as long as you dont be rude or interrupt their routine.

That's awesome. I wish I could break the double digit mark with my .410s. Then again, I've only shot two rounds with my 870 and none with my other .410s. I can break birds nonstop at Angeles with any of my .410s. That extra 16 yards sure makes a difference. I did break a couple birds in the #5 position of a skeet range with my Routledge (.22lr smoothbore) once. But, I only took about 10 shots with it. It was at my first skeet clinic and the only time I've ever tried skeet. I did shot a 12g for the clinic.

MichaelM
05-29-2012, 7:44 PM
As long as you are being safe, who cares if you piss off the duck hunters and master clay blasters. If they are not at risk of being harmed they should mind their own business and stop being such whiny little b*tches.

yellowfin
05-29-2012, 8:06 PM
As long as you are being safe, who cares if you piss off the duck hunters and master clay blasters.
I care, because I WANT to piss them off then educate them once I have their attention. I want Fudd mentality eradicated from the gun owning ranks.

MichaelM
05-29-2012, 8:16 PM
I care, because I WANT to piss them off then educate them once I have their attention. I want Fudd mentality eradicated from the gun owning ranks.

You can't stop insane people from doing insane things. Mind your own business.

SJgunguy24
05-29-2012, 8:31 PM
You can't stop insane people from doing insane things. Mind your own business.

True but mixing it up and doing something beyond the norm is a good thing. That's how innovation happens. You never know what someone could come up with next.
I like to piss off the old farts when I bang steel at 100yards off hand right after said old fart told me I couldn't hit the side of the hill with my AK. Talk smack about my crappy CZ, so i'll hit the 100 yard steel with that, next the same thing with the Saiga 12.
If you don't kick that line and try something different, you never know what your capable of.

MichaelM
05-29-2012, 9:04 PM
True but mixing it up and doing something beyond the norm is a good thing. That's how innovation happens. You never know what someone could come up with next.
I like to piss off the old farts when I bang steel at 100yards off hand right after said old fart told me I couldn't hit the side of the hill with my AK. Talk smack about my crappy CZ, so i'll hit the 100 yard steel with that, next the same thing with the Saiga 12.
If you don't kick that line and try something different, you never know what your capable of.

No doubt, I don't think its insane I was just quoting the guys signature who was complaining about people having fun at the range with different toys.

ysr_racer
05-29-2012, 9:09 PM
I know trap shooters who cry like little girls at the sight of a Rem 1100. They'd stroke out at the sight of that thing.

GettoPhilosopher
05-29-2012, 9:35 PM
I know trap shooters who cry like little girls at the sight of a Rem 1100. They'd stroke out at the sight of that thing.


Why do you think I'm so tempted to show up at a skeet clinic with my evil, black, russian, cylinder bore, muzzle brake'd, foregrip'd Saiga 12? :D

Who knows if I'd do good or suck, but it'd be fun.

CSACANNONEER
05-30-2012, 5:04 AM
Why do you think I'm so tempted to show up at a skeet clinic with my evil, black, russian, cylinder bore, muzzle brake'd, foregrip'd Saiga 12? :D

Who knows if I'd do good or suck, but it'd be fun.

Most ranges have rules regarding barrel lengths, PGs, etc. So, chances are you would not get ro shoot it. Whether you agree with the rules or not is not really the issue. The issue is respecting the rules or opening your own range and making your own rules.

BTW, I'm not against S12s or even using them to break clays. But, I respect the rules when I'm shooting at any facility. I have shot and allowed others to shoot S12s and AOWs at my home but, I would never expect guns like those to be welcome at every trap range.

GettoPhilosopher
05-30-2012, 7:02 AM
Most ranges have rules regarding barrel lengths, PGs, etc. So, chances are you would not get ro shoot it. Whether you agree with the rules or not is not really the issue. The issue is respecting the rules or opening your own range and making your own rules.

BTW, I'm not against S12s or even using them to break clays. But, I respect the rules when I'm shooting at any facility. I have shot and allowed others to shoot S12s and AOWs at my home but, I would never expect guns like those to be welcome at every trap range.

Yes dad, I'm aware that you have to follow range rules. :p

Btw, I've already asked for the LA clinics and was told my Saiga was fine.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2