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View Full Version : 2 Private Party Transfers Back 2 Back Illegal?


wayne93117
05-28-2012, 7:36 AM
Yet another negative NorCal gun shop experience.

On Friday I was at an east bay shop to transfer a Sig to a fellow cal gunner and purchase a Glock from a forum member as well. I was told by the owner that he would only do the transfers because it was a quiet Friday and not busy. He said that by his estimation that I was trafficking without a license and that he'd never do two in one day again. What gives?

Why would this be his assumption? Was I out of bounds doing two transfers?

This shop owner is notorious for being short fused and I made sure I had all my paperwork prepared and kept my demeanor curtious and proffesional. I just don't understand the consistent bad service at these shops.

skyscraper
05-28-2012, 7:39 AM
He was wrong

Penal Code 12070
(a) No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless he or she has been issued a license pursuant to Section 12071. Any person violating this section is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not include any of the following:
(4) The infrequent sale, lease, or transfer of firearms.
(c)(1) As used in this section, "infrequent" means:
(A) For pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, less than six transactions per calendar year. For this purpose, "transaction" means a single sale, lease, or transfer of any number of pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person.
(B) For firearms other than pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, occasional and without regularity.


Just because you bought one after selling one, does not mean you are trafficking


He might have been angry because he had to do two transfers for which he does not make a lot of money on.

Baconator
05-28-2012, 7:41 AM
You aren't allowed to do more than six selling transactions in a year, so no you are not out of line here.

rromeo
05-28-2012, 7:42 AM
Did you ask if he has ever taken a gun in trade when selling a new gun? It's the same deal.

G60
05-28-2012, 8:08 AM
He just doesn't like doing PPT's. What FFL was it?

jlbflyboy172
05-28-2012, 8:13 AM
So since you can buy a new handgun every thirty days, that means you could buy 12 news handguns a year. That would obviously be more than 6 transactions. Does that make you illegal? I don't think so. I called the ATF and DOJ about this wording and asks what their position was on it. I was told by a field agent that they just don't want people doing business commercially or for profit without a firearms license. I asked what if a guy had 50 handguns he inherited from his father and was not a collector himself and wanted to sell of the collection. Could he do it. They said no problem.

alfred1222
05-28-2012, 8:13 AM
Who was it??

bombadillo
05-28-2012, 8:17 AM
He was a real a-hole and I wouldn't do business with him again due to his attitude and not knowing the law. Why would you want to do a transfer through him... :shrug:

Baconator
05-28-2012, 8:18 AM
So since you can buy a new handgun every thirty days, that means you could buy 12 news handguns a year. That would obviously be more than 6 transactions. Does that make you illegal? I don't think so. I called the ATF and DOJ about this wording and asks what their position was on it. I was told by a field agent that they just don't want people doing business commercially or for profit without a firearms license. I asked what if a guy had 50 handguns he inherited from his father and was not a collector himself and wanted to sell of the collection. Could he do it. They said no problem.

You could do a ppt purchase every single day of the year. I said selling transactions.





12070. (a) No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless he or she has been issued a license pursuant to Section 12071. Any person violating this section is guilty of a misdemeanor.

(b) Subdivision (a) does not include any of the following:

(4) The infrequent sale, lease, or transfer of firearms.

(c)(1) As used in this section, "infrequent" means:
(A) For pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, less than six transactions per calendar year. For this purpose, "transaction" means a single sale, lease, or transfer of any number of pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person.
(B) For firearms other than pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, occasional and without regularity.


I'm sure you could transfer more rifles, but i think someone might stop by if you are trying to unload 50 hand guns.

e46sc3
05-28-2012, 8:20 AM
OP said he was in the East Bay ... was this in El Cerrito? That owner seems to hate doing PPT's.

missiontrails
05-28-2012, 8:20 AM
One per month new gun, used guns are exempt.... but that doesn't mean "they" aren't watching:)

CSACANNONEER
05-28-2012, 8:20 AM
Yea, "trafficing" right. Dealing maybe but, I don't think any weapons trafficers do PPTs through FFLs. OUT THE IDIOT who only does PPTs when he feels like it.

wayne93117
05-28-2012, 8:26 AM
Old West Gun Room in El Cerrito.

skyscraper
05-28-2012, 8:33 AM
So since you can buy a new handgun every thirty days, that means you could buy 12 news handguns a year. That would obviously be more than 6 transactions. Does that make you illegal? I don't think so. I called the ATF and DOJ about this wording and asks what their position was on it. I was told by a field agent that they just don't want people doing business commercially or for profit without a firearms license. I asked what if a guy had 50 handguns he inherited from his father and was not a collector himself and wanted to sell of the collection. Could he do it. They said no problem.

You need to closely read this thread. The question was in regards to selling more than 5 handguns per year. The 50 handguns could be sold, but only in 5 transactions or less.(so multiple guns at a time)

By the way, it is 5 transactions or less.

ke6guj
05-28-2012, 8:50 AM
He was a real a-hole and I wouldn't do business with him again due to his attitude and not knowing the law. Why would you want to do a transfer through him... :shrug:

maybe because he is required by law to do them, and if he puts up enough of an attitude and chases PPTs away from his ship, he is just putting additional PPTs to other shops. as much as I hate the phase, he's "not doing his fair share".

dadoody
05-28-2012, 8:58 AM
Yet another negative NorCal gun shop experience.

On Friday I was at an east bay shop to transfer a Sig to a fellow cal gunner and purchase a Glock from a forum member as well. I was told by the owner that he would only do the transfers because it was a quiet Friday and not busy. He said that by his estimation that I was trafficking without a license and that he'd never do two in one day again. What gives?

Why would this be his assumption? Was I out of bounds doing two transfers?

This shop owner is notorious for being short fused and I made sure I had all my paperwork prepared and kept my demeanor curtious and proffesional. I just don't understand the consistent bad service at these shops.

You should post up a review of the experience, but, yes, owner also owns a butt hat it seems.

kpinole
05-28-2012, 9:17 AM
That's Ol' Cowboy Bob! LOL

CalGuns should do one of those flash mob type things where everyone goes to do a PPT at his shop!

morrcarr67
05-28-2012, 9:28 AM
One per month new gun, used guns are exempt.... but that doesn't mean "they" aren't watching:)

Not quite.

If you are buying from a dealer it does not matter if the handgun is new or used; it will count towards your 1 in 30.

You can buy as many as you want from a private party and they won't count towards your 1 in 30.

drkphibr
05-28-2012, 9:33 AM
Yet another negative NorCal gun shop experience.

On Friday I was at an east bay shop to transfer a Sig to a fellow cal gunner and purchase a Glock from a forum member as well. I was told by the owner that he would only do the transfers because it was a quiet Friday and not busy. He said that by his estimation that I was trafficking without a license and that he'd never do two in one day again. What gives?

Why would this be his assumption? Was I out of bounds doing two transfers?

This shop owner is notorious for being short fused and I made sure I had all my paperwork prepared and kept my demeanor curtious and proffesional. I just don't understand the consistent bad service at these shops.

No shortage of LGS ignorance. Or rudeness on PPTs for that matter. Case and point:

1. I did a PPT at a LGS over a year ago that was handled so poorly (they cut my lock [their own initiative, NOT a DOJ audit/agent request] without calling me and gave me the worst customer service I'll never step foot in the shop again or spend another penny with them.

2. Did a PPT at a not-so-local gun shop (45 mi ea way) last year and I've since spent >$3,000 on purchases from the shop. Customer service and attitude for the PPT was so OUTSTANDING I hung out in the shop to FIND something I might be interested in and have been going back ever since. My last few purchases have been through them exclusively.

The point being, a PPT is simply a vehicle that brings potential new customers into the shop. You can make or break future business with attitude and customer service.

We all know LGSes don't make squat off PPTs and they are a pain in the butt to do (from their perspective ---ESPECIALLY at TMs ;-0 ). But you never know who has a fat wallet and an appetite for hardware.

It's just good business practice (I would say common sense, but there seems to be significant shortages for that) to treat every customer and or transaction with some respect and decency.

mc21
05-28-2012, 9:45 AM
No shortage of LGS ignorance. Or rudeness on PPTs for that matter. Case and point:

1. I did a PPT at a LGS over a year ago that was handled so poorly (they cut my lock [their own initiative, NOT a DOJ audit/agent request] without calling me and gave me the worst customer service I'll never step foot in the shop again or spend another penny with them.

2. Did a PPT at a not-so-local gun shop (45 mi ea way) last year and I've since spent >$3,000 on purchases from the shop. Customer service and attitude for the PPT was so OUTSTANDING I hung out in the shop to FIND something I might be interested in and have been going back ever since. My last few purchases have been through them exclusively.

The point being, a PPT is simply a vehicle that brings potential new customers into the shop. You can make or break future business with attitude and customer service.

We all know LGSes don't make squat off PPTs and they are a pain in the butt to do (from their perspective ---ESPECIALLY at TMs ;-0 ). But you never know who has a fat wallet and an appetite for hardware.

It's just good business practice (I would say common sense, but there seems to be significant shortages for that) to treat every customer and or transaction with some respect and decency.

+1 I was originally going to do a PPT but just ended up buying new at full retail +5% discount at a LGS because I liked the customer service (minus 1 employee but the other 3 that helped me made up for it).

bombadillo
05-28-2012, 10:14 AM
My LGS is great to me. I can transfer anything I want and they charge me $50 per transfer and another $25 per long gun up to 5 guns per DROS. They never give me crap about it, they are ALWAYS courteous, and have never complained about doing 5 minutes worth of paperwork. Sure they have a few minutes more after I leave but seriously, they make at least 25-50 dollars on each one for pushing papers and plugging a couple numbers into a computer. How hard is it really. They're making FREE money more or less. Heck, last time I got a gun, they forgot to charge me and I called them to ask if they charged me or not. He laughed and said, "No, the last charge we made was in March" so I told him I'd be in later this week to drop off $50 bucks. Me trying to maintain my integrity just made them want to help me more and they were very appreciative. Go to a shop that LIKES to make money and doesn't complain about a transfer.

kpinole
05-28-2012, 2:08 PM
bombadillo, I see you are in Norcal, mind sharing the name of your LGS?

cwin
05-28-2012, 3:33 PM
That guy is definitely wrong. Also a side note, I believe the pc only applies to handguns.

bombadillo
05-28-2012, 4:48 PM
bombadillo, I see you are in Norcal, mind sharing the name of your LGS?

I'm proably 6 hours north of you I'd guess, but I go to "Broese's Uniforms" in Eureka, CA. They are awesome. Anglin Second Hand will also do it but require the tax to be taken there rather claiming it yourself on your long form. With 2 babies in 2 years, it more than compensates for the difference in taxes! :D

cmichini
05-28-2012, 4:54 PM
It's a shame he didn't refuse. Then you could have called the DOJ to straighten him out. I've done a couple of deals there. Douche is word that comes to mind that feels like a downright understatement.

kpinole
05-28-2012, 7:18 PM
I'm proably 6 hours north of you I'd guess, but I go to "Broese's Uniforms" in Eureka, CA. They are awesome. Anglin Second Hand will also do it but require the tax to be taken there rather claiming it yourself on your long form. With 2 babies in 2 years, it more than compensates for the difference in taxes! :D

LOL, should have known when you your location says "real Norcal". At least I now have a great gun store in Eureka!

e46sc3
06-20-2012, 5:33 PM
Old West Gun Room in El Cerrito.

Hah, I knew it ...

dem0critus
06-20-2012, 6:03 PM
That's Ol' Cowboy Bob! LOL

CalGuns should do one of those flash mob type things where everyone goes to do a PPT at his shop!

haha this would be funny..

JTROKS
06-20-2012, 6:15 PM
I knew right away it's uncle Bob. You must have caught him on his rag day. Come to think of it he gets those more often now that's why I stopped dropping by Ye Olde West Gun Shoppe. Uncle Bob has a buddy that has a real bad mouth and is inconsiderately foul mouthed even when kids are present. Go to Triple A in Vallejo or City Arms in Pleasant Hill.

JTROKS
06-20-2012, 6:20 PM
haha this would be funny..

That would be neat! Who's gonna bring the camera?

nrgcruizer
06-20-2012, 7:03 PM
Old West Gun Room in El Cerrito.

That doesn't surprise me at all. My business have been long gone from his shop. All my business is going to Bulleye & other places. I PPT'd 2 firearms there w/in the same week. No smart mouth comments, or anything.