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View Full Version : Do AR's have an AK complex?


Shrubmaster
05-28-2012, 4:02 AM
Just seems like the AR world is doing everything they can to make non AK AK AR just to say they can finally beat the AK. Its just kinda pathetic is all... just stick to your SPORTS method, your expensive ammo, your little bullets, and your cabinet full of special products to clean your pride and joy. ARs are good at those things. Let that stupid old outdated ak be. It never breaks so why are they trying to fix it!!!:TFH:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/01/foghorn/new-from-rock-river-arms-lar-47-ar-15-in-7-62x39-that-takes-ak-mags/

Travis590A1
05-28-2012, 4:13 AM
:troll:

roushstage2
05-28-2012, 4:55 AM
Totally :chris:

The War Wagon
05-28-2012, 5:06 AM
Can we keep our superior accuracy, too? :D

DarkSoul
05-28-2012, 6:24 AM
Can we keep our superior accuracy, too? :D

+1

The great thing with an AR, is if you ever have to go up against someone armed with an AK, just stay outside of 150 yards with your AR, and the AK loses :D

sonnyt650
05-28-2012, 6:59 AM
Sorry RRA but if I wanted an accurate, get the job done 7.62x39 I'd just continue playing video games :facepalm:. Nobody makes great bullets for that caliber (.310) while the Western world makes more flavors of .308 than are needed for any job that requires bullets and not miniature cannon shells. Yeah I'd go .300 Black before x39, and since I'm putting in the money for .308 caliber bullets I might as well just use .308 Winchester.

FiveSeven
05-28-2012, 7:01 AM
+1

The great thing with an AR, is if you ever have to go up against someone armed with an AK, just stay outside of 150 yards with your AR, and the AK loses :D


Interesting..... since majority of firefights (war zone) happen in less then 100yd, in urban/city environment its even less then that.
I guess by your logic AK is a superior rifle?
Most AK's are more accurate then the users. I can hit gal milk jug with a scoped AK (7.62) repeatedly @ 200 yd with ease.

As to OP's AR that takes AK mags. I think it's a great rifle since AR mags in 7.62x39 suck.
If I was in to AR's I'd definitely consider it.

vliberatore
05-28-2012, 7:31 AM
Interesting..... since majority of firefights (war zone) happen in less then 100yd, in urban/city environment its even less then that.
I guess by your logic AK is a superior rifle?
Most AK's are more accurate then the users. I can hit gal milk jug with a scoped AK (7.62) repeatedly @ 200 yd with ease.


No, by his logic, the AK is not as accurate as the AR, especially outside of 150yds. He never said a thing about the AK being better since most firefights happen in close quarters. That's a real stretch that you'd even come to that conclusion.

sonnyt650
05-28-2012, 7:31 AM
majority of firefights (war zone) happen in less then 100yd, in urban/city environment its even less then that.

No the .223 doesn't lose effectiveness below 100 yards since not even a class III vest will stop that bullet at that distance. Shooting blind through concealment yeah ok maybe the 7.62x39 will perform better, but realistically are you going to waste your carried rounds shooting through a wall where you're assuming the enemy is lurking? There are no outright winners in that situation, just the lucky or better trained.

CSACANNONEER
05-28-2012, 7:35 AM
+1

The great thing with an AR, is if you ever have to go up against someone armed with an AK, just stay outside of 150 yards with your AR, and the AK loses :D

Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

colossians323
05-28-2012, 7:36 AM
:troll:

What are you trying to say?

H2O MAN
05-28-2012, 8:08 AM
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/01/foghorn/new-from-rock-river-arms-lar-47-ar-15-in-7-62x39-that-takes-ak-mags/


This is pretty Cool. (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/P1120554.jpg)
An AR that shoots 7.62mm x 39 from regular AK mags and I would think also from AK drum mags

FiveSeven
05-28-2012, 8:11 AM
No, by his logic, the AK is not as accurate as the AR, especially outside of 150yds. He never said a thing about the AK being better since most firefights happen in close quarters. That's a real stretch that you'd even come to that conclusion.

The logic is implied. It's like saying it without actually admitting it.

if you ever have to go up against someone armed with an AK, just stay outside of 150 yards with your AR

If you are under 150yd then you're screwed? Or what?
What difference should it make if you're under that distance?

FiveSeven
05-28-2012, 8:17 AM
No the .223 doesn't lose effectiveness below 100 yards since not even a class III vest will stop that bullet at that distance. Shooting blind through concealment yeah ok maybe the 7.62x39 will perform better, but realistically are you going to waste your carried rounds shooting through a wall where you're assuming the enemy is lurking? There are no outright winners in that situation, just the lucky or better trained.

Personally, it's my preference and I'm not trying to debate ballistics here.
I prefer heavier and bigger bullet.

Why? Again, personal preference.

weber_2
05-28-2012, 8:25 AM
F the AR, F the AK, M1A all day

Baconator
05-28-2012, 8:27 AM
I have both, I like them both. My sister wives.

a1fabweld
05-28-2012, 9:04 AM
The AK would be great if it could hit the broadside of a barn @100yds. In my experience anyway.

BTW, who gives a sheet? If you think the AK is the cats whiskers, great! Run it! I have been bashed for my love of the HK91 design by AR10 guys, but IDGAF. I still think its superior. No need to try to convince the masses that what you like is the best.

gmcal
05-28-2012, 9:08 AM
An AR using AK mags isn't an AR.

Get an AR in 5.56x45 and some USGI mags or PMAGs and it will function just fine.

H2O MAN
05-28-2012, 9:15 AM
An AR using AK mags isn't an AR.



I guess that's why RRA named it the LAR-47... anyway, it's nothing new, KAC made the SR-47 (http://www.quarterbore.com/kac/sr47.html) many years ago

slomofo
05-28-2012, 9:17 AM
That AR47 design which uses AK mags has been out for a fairly long time now.


As for converting ARs to AKs.... meh... I see a lot of AK owners trying to make their guns look like ARs and even the countries that produced the AKs made their own variants in 5.56, so it's not like it's a big deal or anything. The idea is to make a better gun and even though I'll probably get flamed I think SIG Sauer made that gun with the SIG556 which is essentially an AK with AR ergonomics using the AR caliber.

NorCalK9.com
05-28-2012, 9:37 AM
I dont care about looks when it comes to guns. I care about function. My ak74 does about 2moa at 100 yards. I can go out to 400yards with it. I didnt switch my ak74 to look cool i switched it for ergos. Now it handles comftorably like an ar but gets the job done like an AK.
Here.
http://i.imgur.com/jjDlt.jpg

AK all day
05-28-2012, 9:48 AM
Tagged.:) I will post my WASRs 100 yard group with irons later. I love both guns.

icenix
05-28-2012, 9:49 AM
Just seems like the AR world is doing everything they can to make non AK AK AR just to say they can finally beat the AK. Its just kinda pathetic is all... just stick to your SPORTS method, your expensive ammo, your little bullets, and your cabinet full of special products to clean your pride and joy. ARs are good at those things. Let that stupid old outdated ak be. It never breaks so why are they trying to fix it!!!:TFH:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/01/foghorn/new-from-rock-river-arms-lar-47-ar-15-in-7-62x39-that-takes-ak-mags/

OR, maybe by making an AR that takes AK mags, they are just trying to make things more universal for those people who own AKs and ARs. I don't see how just making it take AK magazines means they are trying to make it into a better AK or whatever. What I think is pathetic are comments like yours. Get off your pedestal, both AKs and ARs are great rifles. I own an AR and I am looking at getting an AK for my next rifle. I would take either any day. I don't think you can go wrong either way. I don't understand why some AK owners are so defensive.

X231
05-28-2012, 9:51 AM
The AK would be great if it could hit the broadside of a barn @100yds. In my experience anyway.


I agree! But on the other hand I've heard that if you get hit with a .223 it doesn't even hurt. I'm having a hard time picking a good battle rifle.:D

H2O MAN
05-28-2012, 9:53 AM
I feel for AR owners that are trying to make their guns run like AKs by adding piston systems
... I even considered doing the same at one time, but I ended up with a Daewoo AR 100 instead.

robert101
05-28-2012, 10:41 AM
I don't care about the AR AK debate. Neither one fires a caliber sufficient to my prescribed needs. I believe the 308 or 7.62x51 is what is necessary to fit my criteria. People or the military can justify the 22lr if they want ..... That's fine with me.

Harrison_Bergeron
05-28-2012, 10:51 AM
No, no, no, you missed the point entirely, he simply said that if you have an AR and find yourself up against an AK within 150 yards you should just run away. Stop trying to twist his words around.

Interesting..... since majority of firefights (war zone) happen in less then 100yd, in urban/city environment its even less then that.
I guess by your logic AK is a superior rifle?
Most AK's are more accurate then the users. I can hit gal milk jug with a scoped AK (7.62) repeatedly @ 200 yd with ease.

As to OP's AR that takes AK mags. I think it's a great rifle since AR mags in 7.62x39 suck.
If I was in to AR's I'd definitely consider it.

tujungatoes
05-28-2012, 11:08 AM
Oh dear god not this again...Calling all fanboys!

1.they're both great rifles.
2.If you get shot with either one you will probably die.
3.If you think being behind a wall or beyond 150yds will save you from one or the other you're a fool.
4.I :facepalm: at this continual ARvsAK thing.

stormvet
05-28-2012, 11:12 AM
AR>AK>AR....Whatever. Both have pros and cons, I would not feel under gunned with either.

Dhena81
05-28-2012, 11:13 AM
OP congrats you obviously have your ego tied into your AK :troll:

Training trumps caliber and weapons anytime.

FatalKitty
05-28-2012, 12:36 PM
MY AR-15 stays true to the original concept (rifle gas system, iron sights, no do-dads)

I don't seam to have any problem :)

I also own a Polish AK folder

I prefer my AR because it's lighter, the mags are easier to acquire, it has been more reliable, and it's much easier to change out barrels/sights/ect if/when I feel the need. (sometimes I just swap uppers to get a completely different set up, takes less than 5 seconds)

pyro3k2
05-28-2012, 12:47 PM
Oh dear god not this again...Calling all fanboys!

1.they're both great rifles.
2.If you get shot with either one you will probably die.
3.If you think being behind a wall or beyond 150yds will save you from one or the other you're a fool.
4.I :facepalm: at this continual ARvsAK thing.

FANBOYS!!!!! ASSEMBLE!!!!!

loosewreck
05-28-2012, 12:56 PM
I like cats. I like dogs too.

Norcalkid
05-28-2012, 12:59 PM
I have both, like both. If I had to choose one it would be the AR. Why? It’s so easily customizable. Not that I think the AR is a better gun. But I have owned my AR since the late 90’s and I’m still not board of it. My AK for the most part will stay the same. I love it and shot it yesterday but 10 years down the road it will most likely shoot the same. Who knows what my AR will look like by then?

My personal opinion is we should all have both. :43:

FX-05 Xiuhcoatl
05-28-2012, 1:05 PM
just get an sks, no BB.

H2O MAN
05-28-2012, 1:29 PM
My personal opinion is we should all have both. :43:

Agreed!

hellraiser
05-28-2012, 2:34 PM
The AK would be great if it could hit the broadside of a barn @100yds. In my experience anyway.


+1

The great thing with an AR, is if you ever have to go up against someone armed with an AK, just stay outside of 150 yards with your AR, and the AK loses :D


Statements such as this really have me questioning people's shooting skills.

Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

Agreed.

romeo26
05-28-2012, 2:44 PM
m1a, fal or other 308 win rifle ftw!

MrPlink
05-28-2012, 2:50 PM
It goes both ways, look at all the tacticool crap you can buy for AKs!

What this really comes down to:


hammer versus screw driver?

or

the color blue versus the number 3?

Who will win!

:rolleyes:

bob7122
05-28-2012, 2:54 PM
nice i think i want a lar-47

and just get both. for those that cant hit anything with an AK at 100 yards plus, you just need practice/training. the sights are different.

QABoEzyBm9wACcrtrFgDE8

nick
05-28-2012, 3:00 PM
Can't we all get along? :p

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_504/1274040692177cjA.jpg

gmcal
05-28-2012, 5:11 PM
Can't we all get along? :p

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_504/1274040692177cjA.jpg

No. Because then the keyboard commandos would have to find something else to do with their time other than argue ak v. ar, 9mm v. 45acp, glock v. 1911, etc.

mjmagee67
05-28-2012, 5:19 PM
TASTE GREAT errrrrr LESS FILLING. Another worthless pointless debate.

Springfield45
05-28-2012, 5:51 PM
I have both in my toolbox.

morthrane
05-28-2012, 6:53 PM
Much as I love my .308 saigas, I wouldn't call the .308win the win-all end all. .308win rifles are heavy, the ammo is heavy and expensive as hell, and I bet if you had to actually carry that rifle and ammo for miles, you'd really want a lighter gun.

Statements such as this really have me questioning people's shooting skills.

Always thought I was a mediocre shot at best, and I find alternating 19" steel targets at 100 yards offhand rapid fire (2-3 seconds between shots) to be almost too easy with a 7.62 converted saiga iron sights. So easy I'm betting that 200 yards wouldn't be much more difficult.

Maybe these are the guys I see at the range who have bipods and magnified optics and lasers and flashlights shooting from the bench at 25 yards, or bust out a bolt action with a high power scope to hit a giant steel target at 100 yards... :D

Kerplow
05-28-2012, 6:59 PM
hrmm. the ease of dropping and inserting AR mags is one of the things I prefer over AK style mags. I like the straight push vs. the rocking action.

edwardjames
05-28-2012, 8:24 PM
me likey to put many accessories on my gun. so i choose AR




but seriously, i feel more comfortable with an AR platform over an ak.... i am more accurate with it
go ahead ak guys, criticize me on my opinion :nopity:

bighead
05-28-2012, 9:37 PM
:troll:

Actually, AR owners have Barbie Doll complex.

Everytime someone assembles an AR they take 50 pictures of it and give a detailed bibliography of all the overpiced name brand junk they'll never need in an attempt to justify the money they blew and to earn internet points.

Some people actually shoot their rifles and dont whore pictures on the internet.

NorCalK9.com
05-28-2012, 9:42 PM
@bighead.
Lmao i am guilty of whoring my pics of my ak74 lol. But in over 18k rounds im still in love with her.
Heres a pic lol.
http://i.imgur.com/X5Ki3.jpg

NorCalK9.com
05-28-2012, 9:44 PM
Wrong pic lol.
http://i.imgur.com/Krb9n.jpg?1

pyro3k2
05-29-2012, 2:19 PM
:troll:

Actually, AR owners have Barbie Doll complex.

Everytime someone assembles an AR they take 50 pictures of it and give a detailed bibliography of all the overpiced name brand junk they'll never need in an attempt to justify the money they blew and to earn internet points.

Some people actually shoot their rifles and dont whore pictures on the internet.


Sig worthy material...I want it so bad...please please please can I use this?

ZombieTactics
05-29-2012, 3:28 PM
In case nobody - especially the OP - has noticed, there's a whole industry growing up around "fixing up" AK pattern rifles to make them more "AR-like". Even the Russians themselves are adopting AR-like features in their newer builds. Perhaps the point is just that these are the 2 best military rifles in existence, and the "bestest evaaaaar" lies somewhere in between.

Seems to kill the point of the opening post.

FiveSeven
05-29-2012, 4:05 PM
In case nobody - especially the OP - has noticed, there's a whole industry growing up around "fixing up" AK pattern rifles to make them more "AR-like". Even the Russians themselves are adopting AR-like features in their newer builds. Perhaps the point is just that these are the 2 best military rifles in existence, and the "bestest evaaaaar" lies somewhere in between.

Seems to kill the point of the opening post.

Not really. It has nothing to do with "AR like" and more modern or updated fighting rifle/carbine like.
Attaching a flashlight is not AR invention, forward pistol grips were designed for guns long before first AR was built, and Eotech, Aimpoit or any other red dot sight is not exclusively manufactured for AR only in mind.

Sure some stocks are designed around AR buffer tube but installing those stocks on AK type rifles does not turn them into AR look a like, not even close + with all various drop in adapters it's as modular as anything else.
When you have a great proven platform, updating~perfecting it only makes sense.

I do agree that so much customizing can be done to AK that it's not far behind AR in modularity. On par actually.
And yes, I'm a picture taking whore. I like to shoot but I also like looking at pictures, be it online, gun rags or tv (that probably includes most here).

cannon
05-29-2012, 4:07 PM
The AK would be great if it could hit the broadside of a barn @100yds. In my experience anyway.

BTW, who gives a sheet? If you think the AK is the cats whiskers, great! Run it! I have been bashed for my love of the HK91 design by AR10 guys, but IDGAF. I still think its superior. No need to try to convince the masses that what you like is the best.

I'd bet it's the shooter not the rifle. ;)

The HK91 & 93 are two of the best rifles I've ever owned or shot. Very ergonomic, accurate, a breeze to get on target, intuitive and the recoil is straight back as opposed to the the AR or AK. Let's you do a very fast and accurate follow up shot.

tacticalcity
05-29-2012, 4:10 PM
Troll post if ever there was one.

robert101
05-29-2012, 4:10 PM
I guess I'd rather have an AK over a rock or maybe a stick. Well, it depends on the quality of the rock or stick I guess.

That was a smart $%# comment made just for the fun of it. No issues here with whatever pride of ownership one likes to offer.

Charlie50
05-29-2012, 4:33 PM
Troll post if ever there was one.

Yeah yeah but we both read the stupid thing didn't we! :rolleyes:

Blondes are Better than Brunettes
45 is better than 9mm
Chevy over Ford
will the maddness ever stop! ... make it stop, make it stop, pleeaassse

tujungatoes
05-29-2012, 4:57 PM
Blondes are Better than Brunettes
45 is better than 9mm
Chevy over Ford
will the maddness ever stop! ... make it stop, make it stop, pleeaassse

WTF?!? Blondes > Brunettes?

What kind of crack are you smoking, and where can I get some?....everybody knows it's all about the brown haired women. Mmmmm....Especially in blue jeans.:drool5:

pyro3k2
05-30-2012, 2:14 AM
WTF?!? Blondes > Brunettes?

What kind of crack are you smoking, and where can I get some?....everybody knows it's all about the brown haired women. Mmmmm....Especially in blue jeans.:drool5:

ummm WTF??? it's all about geeky girls...I love it when they talk nerdy to me.

Shrubmaster
05-30-2012, 2:16 AM
Troll post if ever there was one.

I would never ever do that. Ever.. atleast I brought to light RRA's new mutant "ARK"

Kinda destroys my favorite thing about the AR, quick caliber swaps. I don't know of any rifle that can utilize so many different kinds of ammo using the same lower. You jack the functionality of this feature with specialized lowers like this one. I mean, it'll still gonna jam like a SOAB but atleast its kinda cool.

How does it go again?
Squeeze, Pull, make appointment with your OBGYN, Rack, Tap dance on one foot, Say ten hail marys??? Clear that jam right up!:hurray:

captbilly
05-30-2012, 11:16 AM
I just bought a BMW M3 and I really like it. It's fast, it handles beautifully, it has a nice leather interior, etc, but it cost almost $80k out the door and it gets terrible mileage and I went through a set of $350 per tire rubber in 10kmiles. But more to the point, a base model Corvette for under $50k is probably faster and will go around corners at least as fast, and even gets better mileage. Or for even less money I could have gotten a Mustang that is also just as fast as the M3, so why did I spend all the money on the BMW? For me the precision of the engine, tyranny and suspension on the M3 were worth the extra $, for someone else the massive torque of the Corvette, or the extremely reasonable price of the Mustangs would be bigger priorities.

The AK is a different rifle than an AR. The AR is more precise but more expensive to build. The AR can shoot 0.5 moawith great ammo but the ammo is more expensive and the gun can be a bit less willing to shoot crap. The AK was designed with a different set of criteria than the AR. But Just as the f-15 was a very different ride than the Mig of the same generation, yet they were compared because they may have ended up shooting at each other, the AK is compared to the AR/M-16/M4, even though they aren't really comparable. It is a bit like comparing the M98 Mauser to the M1, they certainly shot at each other but they weren't really similar in other ways. The AK made sense in the Soviet Union where manufacturing was done under what the west would consider to be some pretty crude conditions. The Soviets knew that the ammo was likely to be inconsistent so they made the ability to shoot weak and powerful ammo with no adjustments a priority. The US had the largest and most sophisticated manufacturing base in the world so the idea that the M-16 would need to shoot sooty steel cased ammo never entered into the design. American commanders felt that accuracy was very important because the US had the resources to train their soldiers to shoot well. Soviet commanders had just come out of WW2 where they were fighting with poorly trained, often illiterate and totally technically inexperienced peasants, so they prized simplicity over all else.

If I were buying a rifle for the US military, with it's air conditioned, internet connected, tents and trillion dollar supply chain then the AR style makes much more sense than the AK, but if I wanted to supply some third world resistance army with a cheap easy to use rifle then the AK starts to look like a good choice.

Agent Tikki
05-30-2012, 11:44 AM
to the OP

Yes, ARs want to be more like AKs

conversely

AKs want to be more like ARs.


Neither is perfect. Both have strengths and weaknesses.

tujungatoes
05-30-2012, 12:07 PM
ummm WTF??? it's all about geeky girls...I love it when they talk nerdy to me.

Agreed! But they better have brown hair and librarian glasses.

ebola zaire
05-30-2012, 12:28 PM
:lurk5:

EvolutionGSR
05-30-2012, 12:42 PM
I think my favorite part of the post is that you find one example of an AR that that shoots AK rounds and suddenly the whole AR world is trying to make ARs more like AKs.


Edit - 5.56 aks and 7.62x39 ars have both been around for years.

Paper Boy
05-30-2012, 12:54 PM
I think this fits here, as well as in every one of these debates :D
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/loud-noises.jpg