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lethalb18c1
05-27-2012, 5:06 PM
Well I went to the shooting range today and brought my GSG1911. Was shooting CCI mini mags (100 rounds) and ran flawlessly, then starting with CCI Blazer (20 rounds) and everyone of them were either FTFeed or FTFire, then i switched to Remington golds and also ran flawlessly for about 150 rounds until I had a catastrophic failure. It exploded in my fast and on my right cheek and the ***** hurt like hell and still stings after 2hours. I was bleeding a tiny bit on my upper lip, luckily I had my mouth closed and sun glasses on.

This is my second time out with the GSG1911 and the 1st time it was great! Ate up CCI mini mags and CCI Blazer and remington golds with 2 FTFire and 1 stovepipe with over 700 rounds.
Another thing, I upgraded the barrel bushing (ed brown), the guide rod and spring combo (from cwaccessories.com), and the grips (vz operators) as soon as I bought the pistol.
BTW I've this pistol since April 24, 2012 (only 1 month!!!)

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f236/LethalB18C1/CIMG0548.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f236/LethalB18C1/CIMG0547.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f236/LethalB18C1/CIMG0546.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f236/LethalB18C1/CIMG0543.jpg




update July 4, 2012:
Its been about 3 weeks now since they had the pistol in their possession (took about 2 weeks to get the shipping label) and last week I emailed them to see whats going on... They basically told me "Its in queque to get inspected." Does this mean they forgot about me? or that they're dealing with a lot of "damaged" weapons.


Update July 12, 2012
Well came home today and saw that I received 2 boxes when I only expected 1 (from midwayusa). Saw that the other box was from Rachester NY and knew right away that it was pistol... Kinda figure that they were just going to replaced the damage parts and send it back to me without notifying me...

Anyways, everything i sent to them were sent back to me. Included in the box was a repair order saying "Disassembled and replaced the slide and recoil spring guide. Test fired with CCI Mini-Mags with no faults." I disassembled it myself and they did indeed replaced the parts listed above, but you would think they'll clean it before sending it back to me...

Well i guess i'm stuck with this pistol for a while. I guess if i decide to shoot this again, it'll always be recorded and with cci mini-mags only

cwin
05-27-2012, 5:29 PM
I wouldn't take it apart. Just contact them, explain what happened, and send it in for them to check it out. Glad you're ok otherwise.

MA2
05-27-2012, 5:34 PM
Glad injuries are not too bad :-|

Not the first time I have read of this crack on the net...ATI should cover it.

WartHog
05-27-2012, 5:38 PM
A .22LR did that? WTF material is the slide made out of - Pot Metal?

railroader
05-27-2012, 5:44 PM
Bummer. Looks like zinc alloy maybe.

PoorRichRichard
05-27-2012, 5:45 PM
Yes. They warranty their products for 2 years. Call them and send it in for replacment.

WartHog
05-27-2012, 5:58 PM
Yep - Pot Metal. See post #22 in this thread (http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/general-firearm-discussion/131801-gsg-1911-22-slide-cracked-2.html). Looks like GSG/ATI's sales just might be on a downward trend for a while :rolleyes:. Can't believe they've actually been getting $300+ for that POS.

scglock
05-27-2012, 6:03 PM
Damn. The important thing is that you're alright. Thats crazy though.

markw
05-27-2012, 6:09 PM
Here's another one.. http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16800 Sounds like the pistol is a POS.

den888
05-27-2012, 6:16 PM
Glad you are OK, kind of scary.

sneather
05-27-2012, 6:16 PM
It's one thing to get light alloys and low-grade steel in airsoft guns. But for something firing an actual bullet? No thanks.

PandaLuv
05-27-2012, 6:18 PM
****ing a, I've seen it before, glad I went with sr22 instead. Thanks for sharing!

Press Check
05-27-2012, 6:26 PM
I thought it was common knowledge that the GSG was made from pot metal. :confused:

mymonkeyman
05-27-2012, 6:34 PM
Well good thing we in California are safe from such unsafe handguns by virtue of having a roster of handguns certified by the state of California as being safe.

Oh wait.

Model Gun Type Barrel Length Caliber Exp Date
GSG1911 CA (Black) / Aluminum Slide & Frame; Steel Pistol 5" .22 LR 4/26/2013

toby77
05-27-2012, 6:51 PM
Glad you're ok, don't touch that POS again and send it back them.

lethalb18c1
05-27-2012, 7:05 PM
I've never experience having to send any of my firearms in for warranty so this will be the first hopefully it'll be replaced and they'll pay for everything including shipping :) KC&CO

curtru
05-27-2012, 7:10 PM
I'd also email the ammo company something like that happened to a friend of mine and the ammo company bought him a new gun

Heiko
05-27-2012, 7:12 PM
Definitely not the first time this has happened to a GSG 1911, as others' posts attest. The only one I have handled felt like a cap gun. I would be pretty wary of a replacement or repaired one since it seems there is a flaw in the metal used or manufacturing process and I would think that your replacement would be just waiting to go kaboom again. My old Ruger Mark II is looking better and better even if it is a PITA to clean.

Glad you are not seriously hurt.

EDIT: Lethal - KC&CO indeed!

WartHog
05-27-2012, 7:25 PM
I've never experience having to send any of my firearms in for warranty so this will be the first hopefully it'll be replaced and they'll pay for everything including shipping :) KC&CO

It's your gun & therefore your call but if I was in your shoes, I'd demand ATI refund every cent I had into the purchase including DROS/Transfer charges. If successful, I'd buy something that was designed of material made to last.

giantsfan
05-27-2012, 7:30 PM
My gawd...that is really bad. I'm glad you weren't hurt though! Get rid of that POS immediately..

Oh btw, get a Glock...that would so never happen. LOL

TAK
05-27-2012, 7:46 PM
To the people who want to know the difference between forged and cast, this is the difference. Cast just can't handle what guns need.

taloft
05-27-2012, 7:47 PM
Scary...

...Glad the OP wasn't seriously injured.

I bought one last Sept. when Turner's had a special on them. I've yet to fire it. Now I'm not too sure I want to. This is the first I'm hearing about this happening. I know that many other members picked these up the same time I did. Any one else suffering failures?

WartHog
05-27-2012, 8:02 PM
To the people who want to know the difference between forged and cast, this is the difference. Cast just can't handle what guns need.
Aren't a lot of Ruger's gun made using Investment Cast parts? Don't hear about a bunch of problems with any of their products made with that process so I think your comment needs clarification.

Bartin
05-27-2012, 8:04 PM
NO. This shows the difference between pot metal and everything else.

To the people who want to know the difference between forged and cast, this is the difference. Cast just can't handle what guns need.

626Tony
05-27-2012, 8:06 PM
Glad you are OK ! send it back to them ASAP Tues morning!

KandyRedCoi
05-27-2012, 8:16 PM
Scary...

...Glad the OP wasn't seriously injured.

I bought one last Sept. when Turner's had a special on them. I've yet to fire it. Now I'm not too sure I want to. This is the first I'm hearing about this happening. I know that many other members picked these up the same time I did. Any one else suffering failures?
glad i held off...i was really close to picking one of these up, gonna pick up a RIA 1911 9mm tactical instead

Aren't a lot of Ruger's gun made using Investment Cast parts? Don't hear about a bunch of problems with any of their products made with that process so I think your comment needs clarification.
yup...my phoenix arms hp22a has over 2.5k rounds of hv ammo thru it and still going...its a cheapo $150 pot metal saturday night special :rolleyes:

lethalb18c1
05-27-2012, 8:31 PM
It's your gun & therefore your call but if I was in your shoes, I'd demand ATI refund every cent I had into the purchase including DROS/Transfer charges. If successful, I'd buy something that was designed of material made to last.

true but it was great when it was working, but now i'm kinda scared to shoot it again. What i was thinking was either use cci mini mags ONLY or just sell it completely... Or have it as a paper weight....

colossians323
05-27-2012, 8:40 PM
Sorry for your purchase. this just goes to prove the FBI's contention that airsoft can be made into a working firearm:(

JeremyS
05-27-2012, 11:23 PM
Wow. I'm shocked to learn this about the GSG1911!!! Considering so many people seem to be seeing the same failure in the same place on the gun in 500 rounds or less, I'm really surprised it has made it through whatever type of quality control the company may have.

Glad to have my CZ Kadet Kit .22 slide conversion, made from actual forged steel.


To the people who want to know the difference between forged and cast, this is the difference. Cast just can't handle what guns need.
That's complete FUD and is plain incorrect.

compulsivegunbuyer
05-27-2012, 11:29 PM
I had heard the slides were aluminium, but now I'm guessing ZAMAK.

Tee Why
05-27-2012, 11:35 PM
Personally, I'd contact a personal injury lawyer and get checked out to make sure you're ok.

r1ghtw1ng
05-27-2012, 11:46 PM
Does the warranty paperwork say anything about upgrades voiding the warranty? You mention you through on some aftermarket parts.

Glad you're ok.

anthonyca
05-28-2012, 12:04 AM
true but it was great when it was working, but now i'm kinda scared to shoot it again. What i was thinking was either use cci mini mags ONLY or just sell it completely... Or have it as a paper weight....

Would you tell the person that you are scared to shoot it? How could someone sell something with that on their mind?

lethalb18c1
05-28-2012, 12:17 AM
Would you tell the person that you are scared to shoot it? How could someone sell something with that on their mind?

Actually I dont think I could sell it to someone else even if i worn them about that issue, but i rather not sell it to another people due to guilty conscience and on top of that i'm not that kind of person that likes to sell/buy firearms through private parties

Turbinator
05-28-2012, 12:54 AM
Personally, I'd contact a personal injury lawyer and get checked out to make sure you're ok.

My opinion, skip the lawsuit.. we don't need more lawsuits against gun makers.

Turby

Ubermcoupe
05-28-2012, 1:07 AM
Glad you’re okay OP.

Solidux
05-28-2012, 1:32 AM
My opinion, skip the lawsuit.. we don't need more lawsuits against gun makers.

Turby

but butttt..... this is amerriiicuhh....

Bug Splat
05-28-2012, 1:33 AM
Damn I still can't believe a 22lr did that. I knew the GSG1911 was cheap but..... damn!

CC Gunsmithing
05-28-2012, 1:42 AM
Thank you Turby..

g17owner
05-28-2012, 3:31 AM
A .22LR did that? WTF material is the slide made out of - Pot Metal?

yup

mod1217
05-28-2012, 6:09 AM
The only Catastrophic Failure I have ever seen in a 22LR gun is due to a Squib Round but that my friend looks like the metal on the slide is the one that fails. In this case I would ask them for a complete refund of the firearms instead of just a replacement, my life and my face is worth much more than this firearm and if they are just going to replace it with another I still wont have the "balls" to shoot it again or have the "conscience" to sell it to another person.

cmichini
05-28-2012, 6:21 AM
It's your gun & therefore your call but if I was in your shoes, I'd demand ATI refund every cent I had into the purchase including DROS/Transfer charges. If successful, I'd buy something that was designed of material made to last.

This. If this is not an isolated incident, you'll have them replace one death trap with another.

I'd try for full refund, then buy a firearm that's designed to handle the pressures of well, a firearm.

JxPakman
05-28-2012, 12:10 PM
Make it stock again before you send it back

lethalb18c1
05-28-2012, 1:51 PM
Make it stock again before you send it back

I'll do that

Arteel
05-28-2012, 2:33 PM
Wow, I had my eyes on this pistol, but am seriously having second thoughts now.

Glad you got away without any major injuries.

bsim
05-28-2012, 3:56 PM
2 months ago I was shooting next to my buddy's daughter with her new Buckmark - it exploded.

Remington Golds. BAAAD stuff.

colossians323
05-28-2012, 4:12 PM
2 months ago I was shooting next to my buddy's daughter with her new Buckmark - it exploded.

Remington Golds. BAAAD stuff. Yes but potmetal and any ammo do not mix, it was not the remington gold on this, it was clearly pot metal that is the culprit

LovingTheYear1911
05-28-2012, 5:34 PM
And I was just telling my mom yesterday to get one of these since she doesnt like shooting bigger caliber pistols. NEVER MIND.

mindwreck
05-28-2012, 7:06 PM
how did the casing look after the gun exploded?? Doesn't look like fatigue failure. Looks like the round was out of battery and just blow out top.

Capybara
05-28-2012, 9:02 PM
Dang, I was this close to buying one of those, but I saw some photos of one that had a similar slide crack as yours, then I saw some Walther P22 pictures that looked similar. I bought the SR22 instead.

As far as I am concerned, Zamak=hand grenade.

Glad you are okay, that is scary.

Snoopy47
05-28-2012, 9:06 PM
A .22LR did that? WTF material is the slide made out of - Pot Metal?

I was thinking the same thing

mlevans66
05-28-2012, 10:22 PM
2 months ago I was shooting next to my buddy's daughter with her new Buckmark - it exploded.

Remington Golds. BAAAD stuff.

:eek: What the duck sauce is going on!? A GSG and now a Buckmark? I'm glad the OP wasn't hurt to bad but hows the little girl after that situation? Man, I'm glad I got a Ruger MKIII even more now.

L84CABO
05-28-2012, 10:32 PM
Man, glad you're ok. The prolem I see here is that even if they do replace the thing, I would not want to fire that gun ever again. They clearly have an issue. Simply getting a new one isn't going to solve anything.

KandyRedCoi
05-28-2012, 10:47 PM
yea ill stick to my old plan buy 22/45


/thread

wfloo
05-29-2012, 12:01 AM
Looks like I have to be careful with my P22 as well. Put about 2K rounds of CCI Stinger and CCI Mini Mag thru. No issues so far. Bought new about a year ago.

mosinnagantm9130
05-29-2012, 12:16 AM
Holy crap, glad you are OK!

Remington Golds do suck, but this issue has happened with multiple GSG1911s in the same location. I'm putting the GSG1911 on my "do not buy" list now.

stix213
05-29-2012, 1:27 AM
Not surprised. Based on my experience with my GSG-5, this company just puts out complete junk that is hardly worthy of a BB gun. Every corner that can be cut has been and then some.

lethalb18c1
05-29-2012, 1:55 AM
yea in the begining i was worried that if it'll be under warranty to get it replaced, and now that i think about it more and more, i'mma ask for a refund and probably get a kimber 1911 and eventually a 22 conversion for it

I initially got the gsg1911 to shoot for cheap...

!@#$
05-29-2012, 10:01 AM
Not surprised. Based on my experience with my GSG-5, this company just puts out complete junk that is hardly worthy of a BB gun. Every corner that can be cut has been and then some.

but they look cool. :D

Ripon83
05-29-2012, 10:11 AM
There sure have been lots of reports on the GSG 1911 but not all are bad and most seem favorable. Curious what the guns fans think, and how do you explain some going thousands of rounds ( or so I've heard) with out these troubles? I'm guessing they had a bad production run?

joefreas
05-29-2012, 10:19 AM
Mine did the same thing. I was shooting Federal bulk .22. I sent it in and had a new one in about two weeks. I haven't got a chance to shoot it yet.
152067

SNCaliber
05-29-2012, 11:05 AM
looks like im staying far away from buying one of these

DrMoebius
05-29-2012, 11:42 AM
I hate to say this...

But, it sounds like only a class action lawsuit will get this company to stop putting customer's lives in danger, or put them out of business.

Ripon83
05-29-2012, 11:47 AM
I saw the browning, its not a full sized 1911, and that might be fine for some but not what I was looking for. Not all that certain of its construction. Might want to look at the RIA 22 which is not an exact 1911 replica either but I believe its at least full size.


Definitely on my "do not buy" list now. I'll wait for a Browning 1911-22 to show up in a store near me...

johnthomas
05-29-2012, 12:12 PM
I wrote ATI, here it is.
I recently bought a gsg 1911 from Marklrys in Watsonville California and expect to pick it up in a few days. I have now been reading the danger of these guns.

My question is, should I refuse delivery and get my money back or has the problem been fixed?
Them.
Sir,

The GSG 1911 is a safe and fun recreational pistol. There are currently no recalls or warnings to be concerned with.

Thanks for contacting us and have a great day.

Regards,



Nathan Kent

American Tactical Imports

P - 800-290-0065,

F - 585-328-4168

JeremyS
05-29-2012, 12:30 PM
I saw the browning, its not a full sized 1911, and that might be fine for some but not what I was looking for. Not all that certain of its construction. Might want to look at the RIA 22 which is not an exact 1911 replica either but I believe its at least full size.
Kimber, Sig, Umarex (Colt), and others make full-size 1911-.22's, with many parts that are interchangeable with real 1911 parts...

hefedehefe
05-29-2012, 12:40 PM
I love mine. Actually like it as much or better than my sr22. I put around 1500+ rounds through it with mo issues and I confess I haven't cleaned it once yet. I need to clean it now though, but so far so good

WartHog
05-29-2012, 2:23 PM
I wrote ATI, here it is.
I recently bought a gsg 1911 from Marklrys in Watsonville California and expect to pick it up in a few days. I have now been reading the danger of these guns.

My question is, should I refuse delivery and get my money back or has the problem been fixed?
Them.
Sir,

The GSG 1911 is a safe and fun recreational pistol. There are currently no recalls or warnings to be concerned with.

Thanks for contacting us and have a great day.

Regards,



Nathan Kent

American Tactical Imports

P - 800-290-0065,

F - 585-328-4168

OMFG - How ****ing clueless are they? Hope you don't have any trouble cancelling your order.

WartHog
05-29-2012, 2:26 PM
yea in the begining i was worried that if it'll be under warranty to get it replaced, and now that i think about it more and more, i'mma ask for a refund and probably get a kimber 1911 and eventually a 22 conversion for it

I initially got the gsg1911 to shoot for cheap...Please keep us informed as to how your request for refund of your money goes.

h0use
05-29-2012, 3:08 PM
glad your ok! let us know how ati customer service is

colhazard
05-29-2012, 3:12 PM
Here's their response to my email back in March when I got concerned about this (google: "gsg 1911 slide failure"). Mine has over 2500 rounds through it, but this thread just brought back this concern.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sir,
We are currently researching that issue. As of right now there have been very few incidents out of thousands ofGSG-1911s sold so the chances of that happening are very unlikely of course as always should this issue arise we will address it at that time. Thanks for contacting us and have a great day.
Regards,

Nathan Kent
American Tactical Imports
P - 800-290-0065,
F - 585-328-4168


I think since they are using materials for airsoft, maybe I should start wearing a full face mask while shooting it :)

m1a1driver
05-29-2012, 5:35 PM
Exactly why i didnt buy one. I had a sig mosquito split the slide as well. Got a ruger mk3 22/45 and never looked back. ATI should take care of your slide.

Domingo
05-29-2012, 6:47 PM
I wanted a 1911 .22 I saw that they are POS and I stayed away. I just bought a kimber .22 conversion. any one with a 1911 is better off buying a conversion

Dee_Dub
05-29-2012, 6:51 PM
talk about a near miss, glad your walking away

zdragon
05-29-2012, 7:54 PM
Aren't a lot of Ruger's gun made using Investment Cast parts? Don't hear about a bunch of problems with any of their products made with that process so I think your comment needs clarification.


Ruger had to beef up all their investment cast firearms.
Just compare a S&W to a Ruger revolver in the same caliber side by side. Ruger is almost twice as hefty as a forged S&W.

lethalb18c1
05-29-2012, 8:03 PM
Okay so they responded earlier today and is now sending me a box to get shipped to them so they can inspect It. We'll see how long it'll take before they decide what they want to do and hopefully I get a refund...

Antihero47
05-29-2012, 8:28 PM
Okay so they responded earlier today and is now sending me a box to get shipped to them so they can inspect It. We'll see how long it'll take before they decide what they want to do and hopefully I get a refund...

Question, if they won't refund you, where are you located and how much do you want?

jyo
05-29-2012, 8:35 PM
Yeah, several makers are using cast zinc parts on 22s---bad idea me thinks---heard of many problems---no zinc for me! Glad your injuries are slight.

wc12
05-29-2012, 8:57 PM
Ok, I'm scratching this off my buy list, for now. I wanted one so much but....

the_midwesterner
05-29-2012, 9:19 PM
Man that sucks! These things looked awesome and had peaked my interest, not so sure I will be picking one up now.

Bartin
05-29-2012, 9:27 PM
Ruger had to beef up all their investment cast firearms.
Just compare a S&W to a Ruger revolver in the same caliber side by side. Ruger is almost twice as hefty as a forged S&W.

Do you have a source for them HAVING to build a beefy revolver? They are big but also have a reputation of being some of the most durable.

MikeR
05-29-2012, 10:03 PM
Safe handgun roster my *** CA DOJ. :D

Glad you are ok.

hornswaggled
05-29-2012, 10:44 PM
Guess I'll stick with my Kimber conversion kit.

lethalb18c1
05-29-2012, 10:44 PM
Question, if they won't refund you, where are you located and how much do you want?

Not sure... But located in San bernardino

2nd Shot
05-29-2012, 10:57 PM
After reading up on the P22 and it's cast zinc alloy slide, I found that ZAMAK alloy is about as dense/heavy as steel, but much weaker and more brittle than your basic 6061 alloy aluminum. Worst of both worlds.

Translation: They could have cast the slide out of even the most basic low alloy steel, and it would weigh about the same (so the timing of the action wouldn't change), and it'd be MUCH stronger, without being much more expensive in terms of production or material cost. The Bersa Thunder .380 is a good example of this. The slide isn't very hard, but it does the job just fine with a cartridge with twice the energy. The pistol is relatively well proven, liked, and costs less than the also imported GSG-1911 or the P22.

Or, as I was wondering all along why nobody did this - they could have gone the route Ruger took with the SR22: Make the slide out of much lighter 6061 or 7075 aluminum, but make it thicker, beefier, and stronger instead.

Casting moving parts that are subject to shock, impact, and sudden acceleration out of ZAMAK is just plain cheapskate engineering, in my book.

Arondos
05-29-2012, 11:15 PM
I had a remington round go boom in my p22 a while back. Gun was working fine. Round with a big KABOOM. ejected the magazine and pulled the round out of the chamber. Almost the entire rim was blown off the .22LR. Cracked the slide in two places.

Remington replaced the slide.

Solidsnake87
05-30-2012, 12:30 AM
This is about the 10th GSG 1911 I've seen kaboom.

.....Seems to support the theory buy once, buy nice......or at least don't buy for a while till the hiccups get exposed.....

Seems like the Ruger Mark II/III and Marvel Precision are the best .22 pistols out there.

darqhelmet
05-30-2012, 12:39 AM
I have one it's showing extra wear around the slide stop. After the other threads and the metal looking like crap around the stop I don't shot this pistol anymore. I cannot suggest anyone getting one. Or any GSG for that matter. My buddy had the first run of mp5s .22lr the barrel mushroomed inside the shrowd. They told him to pound sand.

AeroEngi
05-30-2012, 12:49 AM
Well good thing we in California are safe from such unsafe handguns by virtue of having a roster of handguns certified by the state of California as being safe.

Oh wait.

Model Gun Type Barrel Length Caliber Exp Date
GSG1911 CA (Black) / Aluminum Slide & Frame; Steel Pistol 5" .22 LR 4/26/2013

+1 to this!

OP, glad you're ok and your injuries weren't worse. If I were you, I'd get rid of that POS. Send it back to the manufacturer and demand for a full refund. Put that money into a better quality .22 pistol.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Tiberius
05-30-2012, 2:12 AM
Jeez, now I'm afraid of the pots in my kitchen. What if they kaboom next?

Riflewizard
05-30-2012, 2:50 AM
this is why i always laugh at all these cheap-*** wannabe .22's on the market.

Capybara
05-30-2012, 7:13 AM
I am the last person to go for the lawyers and lawsuits but why shouldn't the OP sue the DOJ/State since they must have comprehensively tested this firearm for it to be on the Safe Gun Roster? CGF, is there any basis here to illustrate the gross negligence of the State, the ineffectiveness of the roster, could we get the roster struck down if a pattern of this gun being categorically unsafe could be shown?

Budd
05-30-2012, 7:38 AM
I am the last person to go for the lawyers and lawsuits but why shouldn't the OP sue the DOJ/State since they must have comprehensively tested this firearm for it to be on the Safe Gun Roster? CGF, is there any basis here to illustrate the gross negligence of the State, the ineffectiveness of the roster, could we get the roster struck down if a pattern of this gun being categorically unsafe could be shown?

Doubt anything like that would work - they would just take more guns off the list.

Old4eyes
05-30-2012, 8:14 AM
I am the last person to go for the lawyers and lawsuits but why shouldn't the OP sue the DOJ/State since they must have comprehensively tested this firearm for it to be on the Safe Gun Roster? CGF, is there any basis here to illustrate the gross negligence of the State, the ineffectiveness of the roster, could we get the roster struck down if a pattern of this gun being categorically unsafe could be shown?

DOJ contracts out the testing. I am sure if you sued the DOJ they'd just point to the contractor and say "They blew the testing, the law is good."

MyOdessa
05-30-2012, 11:26 AM
Ask for your money back and buy something better.

JeremyS
05-30-2012, 12:10 PM
...shouldn't the OP sue the DOJ/State since they must have comprehensively tested this firearm for it to be on the Safe Gun Roster?
Don't forget that it's NOT a Safe Gun Roster. The legal stuff all specifically says it's a "Not Unsafe" gun roster. The guns are certified as "not unsafe." Whether that means something different to you is up to you, but it's certainly more open to interpretation.

Apparently three test guns made it through the firing portion of the roster test. I'm actually surprised that as many guns make it through considering some require a "break-in" and might have an issue in the first 20 rounds, and a lot of .22 LR pistols are finicky and I wouldn't be surprised to see more than 6 issues in 600 rounds.

A handgun shall pass this test if each of the three test guns meets both of the following:
(1) Fires the first 20 rounds without a malfunction that is not due to ammunition that fails to detonate.
(2) Fires the full 600 rounds with no more than six malfunctions that are not due to ammunition that fails to detonate and without any crack or breakage of an operating part of the handgun that increases the risk of injury to the user.
(b) If a pistol or revolver fails the requirements of either paragraph (1) or (2) of subdivision (a) due to ammunition that fails to detonate, the pistol or revolver shall be retested from the beginning of the "firing requirement for handguns" test. A new model of the pistol or revolver that failed due to ammunition that fails to detonate may be submitted for the test to replace the pistol or revolver that failed.
(c) As used in this section, "malfunction" means a failure to properly feed, fire, or eject a round, or failure of a pistol to accept or eject the magazine, or failure of a pistol's slide to remain open after the magazine has been expended.

joefreas
05-30-2012, 1:48 PM
^

(d) Does not explode within first hundred rounds.

lethalb18c1
05-30-2012, 1:57 PM
Well I emailed remington this morning and got a reply asking me to call them. So as I did not to while ago, they ask me to send in the remainder of the ammo to have them inspected and is also waiting to get the pistol inspected from GSG to see what they have to say first.

SgtMerc
06-01-2012, 8:19 PM
Everything i've seen people complain about has been the slide, guide rod or barrel bushing failing.

Now, personally i've got almost 2000 rounds through my gsg, and i have no issues with her. But, in the case of someone buying a gsg and later deciding they are unsafe, couldn't one just get a replacement slide? And if so, has anyone done this and found a slide that is compatible with the gsg frame?

I love my gsg. If anything does happen to her slide, i'd like to be able to purchase a replacement. The rest of the pistol is rock solid.

Shooster
06-01-2012, 9:42 PM
yes they will take care of it i had the same thing happen to mine but i was trying to push a different rear sight onto it. they were very helpful and took care of the whole thing no charge and they also did some other tuning to it as well. it was gone maybe two weeks.

elsolo
06-02-2012, 2:39 PM
That's what you get for buying a pot metal firearm made by a toy gun company that's only niche in the marketplace is look-alikes for the airsoft crowd, now available in .22lr

Airsoft toy gun manufacturing techniques don't work for firearms.

Capybara
06-02-2012, 2:47 PM
When I looked at the GSG at the dealer, it looks and feels solid. But glad I researched who ATI is and what Zamak is. I can't believe that manufacturers are using such an unsuitable alloy in such a critical application, I would think that their own attorney's would not let them do that but I guess the KBs have mostly been non-injury. So far.

Same with the Walther P22, I have seen very similar results. Scary.

Glad I went Ruger.

gant
06-02-2012, 8:16 PM
sweet cant wait to start the paperwork on mine in a couple days lol jeeez oh well

lethalb18c1
06-06-2012, 12:43 PM
anyone know how long its suppose to take for them to send me a shipping label (maybe with box)?

SoCalSig1911
06-06-2012, 12:57 PM
Glad i read about all of this GSG nonsense because i have been in the market for a 22lr semi auto and almost picked up either the gsg-1911, the P22, SR22, or the ISSC M22.. Luckily after doing some calguns research i went over to Gunworld and picked up the S&W M&P22! It has a beefy aluminum frame and it is made by Walther in Germany.. 9 days left :(

GunHo
06-06-2012, 2:01 PM
A .22LR did that? WTF material is the slide made out of - Pot Metal?

My thoughts exactly. Imagine a 9mm or better yet, a .45 in that gun. That thing would be in pieces. The OP would have been really injured, at the least.

It's your gun & therefore your call but if I was in your shoes, I'd demand ATI refund every cent I had into the purchase including DROS/Transfer charges. If successful, I'd buy something that was designed of material made to last.

Yup, that would be my route. To salvage cost or even 75% of total cost would be in OP's best interest.

NO. This shows the difference between pot metal and everything else.

What's pot metal... my guess, the same stuff you make pots with?

And OP, thanks for sharing. I'll know better to even glimpse at a GSG. I'm really glad you're OK. Good luck with whatever you decide.

GunHo
06-06-2012, 2:05 PM
The Ruger SR22. Now that there is a cute little plinker. It'll be my first compact and polymer pistol... not yet in the budget but I'm about to break down...

hefedehefe
06-06-2012, 2:13 PM
There have been AK's and AR's and all kinds of other guns that have blown up. I love my gsg as much as my SR22. I do check it now though because of this post, but I have had another slide break before too. My HP22 was crack and I didnt even notice it. It was still shooting and I dont know how long it was cracked for. I think if you can, you should always check your guns for cracks or anything unusual

Sunday
06-07-2012, 8:04 AM
22 lr may be small in size but they are high pressure loads.

Backcountry
06-07-2012, 11:54 AM
When you spend your money on junk, expect it to perform like junk.

Turbinator
06-08-2012, 10:55 PM
What's pot metal... my guess, the same stuff you make pots with?

Read up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_metal

Turby

repubconserv
06-08-2012, 11:13 PM
I hate to say this...

But, it sounds like only a class action lawsuit will get this company to stop putting customer's lives in danger, or put them out of business.

Or... possibly... just possibly, people can stop buying this crap. I agree with turby. A lawsuit against a gun company will not help us right now. In fact if there is ANY lawsuit over this problem it probably could turn into much more retarded requirements for the roster (IANAL, so I could be wrong on that)

Jeez, now I'm afraid of the pots in my kitchen. What if they kaboom next?
:willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly:

mc21
06-08-2012, 11:43 PM
was thinking about getting this over a conversion kit so I could have a 1911 feel but after reading this I jumped on a conversion kit.

nn3453
06-08-2012, 11:47 PM
Well good thing we in California are safe from such unsafe handguns by virtue of having a roster of handguns certified by the state of California as being safe.

Oh wait.

Model Gun Type Barrel Length Caliber Exp Date
GSG1911 CA (Black) / Aluminum Slide & Frame; Steel Pistol 5" .22 LR 4/26/2013

This is the funniest thing I have read all week.

lethalb18c1
07-04-2012, 1:12 AM
A quick update:
Its been about 3 weeks now since they had the pistol in their possession (took about 2 weeks to get the shipping label) and last week I emailed them to see whats going on... They basically told me "Its in queque to get inspected." Does this mean they forgot about me? or that they're dealing with a lot of "damaged" weapons.

You would think they would get this resolved as soon as possible since something like this could potenially be a lawsuit...

PS: HAPPY 4th of JULY!!! and be safe out there

curtru
07-04-2012, 1:24 AM
Eather way it sounds shady. Keep the info comming

davaoct
07-04-2012, 2:27 AM
My gun cracked and I got a sand blast and a piece of brass on the cheek. The swelling is gone now but I can still feel the brass in my cheek. I sent the gun back to ATI and they said that they will give me a refund. It's been over 4 months now since the incident and still no refund.

DinoD
07-04-2012, 10:20 AM
Wow, really had an interest in this gun but I've been reading a lot of bad things. Not just
about the gun per say ,but about the company in general. Poor customer service and warranty service too. Glad your Ok .

B!ngo
07-04-2012, 4:22 PM
Glad the OP (and others cited in this thread) seem to be unhurt.
I for one am really surprise that a .22LR could blow up any metal gun (even pot metal) but I stand corrected.
I would not engage in a lawsuit if you're not physically injured but I wouldn't hesitate to cross-publish this thread on some high-visibility gun websites with the intent of forcing GSG et al to re-engineer this model, recall the ones that have been sold, and reissue upgraded parts if at all possible. This presumes of course that from a statistical perspective there is an inordinate number of these failures in the field. Remember that we only hear about the failures. But it does SEEM that something bad is going on. I don't recall hearing of numerous catastrophic/structural failures in a production gun as long as I've been shooting.
Anyway, best of luck and hope you get a refund. I don't see how you can continue to shoot a repaired/replaced gun of this design nor could you, in good conscience, sell this to another individual.
B

DinoD
07-04-2012, 4:41 PM
Agreed, I think a recall may be in order. Anytime a failure results in an injury it should be
investigated. Doesn't appear GSG is doing much about it though.

lethalb18c1
07-04-2012, 10:13 PM
My gun cracked and I got a sand blast and a piece of brass on the cheek. The swelling is gone now but I can still feel the brass in my cheek. I sent the gun back to ATI and they said that they will give me a refund. It's been over 4 months now since the incident and still no refund.

Dang, that pretty much described what happened to me. I've owned the pistol for 1 month before this happened and its been in their possession longer then i have... As for the 4 months thing, I really hope it doesnt take that long...

DinoD
07-05-2012, 12:25 PM
This is a email from GSG .It's a response from them after I told them I am concerned about the safety of the gun .


Please be informed we produced already more than 100.000 GSG 1911's and only very few of them have had this problem. Perhaps due to a fault in the material of those pistols, rapid firing with to poweful ammunition or a mistake during production.

Each pistol which leaves our factory is proof fired with 30% overloaded ammunition, only then each pistol gets the German Eagle controlled by German Authorities.
Nevertheless we improved since several months the breechblock with more material at the place where the bottom of the case contacts the breechblock. Therefore you should have no problem at all with our 1911 California Version.


Mit freundlichen Gruessen,
Best regards,

m.swoboda@germansportguns.de

JackRydden224
07-05-2012, 2:31 PM
Heh I am sending my GSG 1911 back to ATI for the second time. The first time it was feeding issues. This time it's failure to fire, to feed and to eject. I'm hitting the jack pot there. If it comes back with the same problem again I will just ask for a refund.

The whole point of a .22 pistol is so people can practice. Well, so much for practice when the gun only fires half of the magazine without a hiccup.

PS: I had a dream where I shot zombies with a stainless steel Ruger MK-III....maybe its time for me to get one LOL

DinoD
07-05-2012, 2:35 PM
I'm looking at a S&W MP22 . Turners also has the Ruger SR22 on sale this week .

DinoD
07-05-2012, 3:17 PM
A quick update:
Its been about 3 weeks now since they had the pistol in their possession (took about 2 weeks to get the shipping label) and last week I emailed them to see whats going on... They basically told me "Its in queque to get inspected." Does this mean they forgot about me? or that they're dealing with a lot of "damaged" weapons.

You would think they would get this resolved as soon as possible since something like this could potenially be a lawsuit...

PS: HAPPY 4th of JULY!!! and be safe out there

If you have additional questions or parts
This is Michael Swoboda's email at GSG
m.swoboda@germansportguns.de

Apec
07-05-2012, 3:40 PM
how did the casing look after the gun exploded?? Doesn't look like fatigue failure. Looks like the round was out of battery and just blow out top.

This. A few more had that issue.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1400315

Any gun can kaboom if it fires out of battery, whether the slide is made of steel or unobtanium. There's also been talk that the Remington Gold's are very inconsistent in quality (google Remington .22 gold failure) and unreliable in the GSG 1911's (thread below).

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=534222

lethalb18c1
07-12-2012, 2:20 AM
Final update?
Well came home today and saw that I received 2 boxes when I only expected 1 (from midwayusa). Saw that the other box was from Rachester NY and knew right away that it was pistol... Kinda figure that they were just going to replaced the damage parts and send it back to me without notifying me...

Anyways, everything i sent to them were sent back to me. Included in the box was a repair order saying "Disassembled and replaced the slide and recoil spring guide. Test fired with CCI Mini-Mags with no faults." I disassembled it myself and they did indeed replaced the parts listed above, but you would think they'll clean it before sending it back to me...

Well i guess i'm stuck with this pistol for a while. I guess if i decide to shoot this again, it'll always be recorded and with cci mini-mags only

DinoD
07-12-2012, 6:34 AM
Final update?
Well came home today and saw that I received 2 boxes when I only expected 1 (from midwayusa). Saw that the other box was from Rachester NY and knew right away that it was pistol... Kinda figure that they were just going to replaced the damage parts and send it back to me without notifying me...

Anyways, everything i sent to them were sent back to me. Included in the box was a repair order saying "Disassembled and replaced the slide and recoil spring guide. Test fired with CCI Mini-Mags with no faults." I disassembled it myself and they did indeed replaced the parts listed above, but you would think they'll clean it before sending it back to me...

Well i guess i'm stuck with this pistol for a while. I guess if i decide to shoot this again, it'll always be recorded and with cci mini-mags only

So did they cover the shipping?
What did it cost to ship a gun back to ATI? Seems unfair to have to pay shipping to repair a gun a few weeks old.

DisturbedAle
07-12-2012, 7:12 AM
I wonder if this has more to do with Remington than GSG. I'm still intrigued by this gun and would love to own it some day in the future...

DinoD
07-12-2012, 7:36 AM
I wonder if this has more to do with Remington than GSG. I'm still intrigued by this gun and would love to own it some day in the future...

This has been an issue with this gun for some time.
There are numerous posts with pics.
I heard GSG may have done something to reinforce the slide and the breechblock on the new models?

This email came from GSG

Please be informed we produced already more than 100.000 GSG 1911's and only very few of them have had this problem. Perhaps due to a fault in the material of those pistols, rapid firing with to poweful ammunition or a mistake during production.

Each pistol which leaves our factory is proof fired with 30% overloaded ammunition, only then each pistol gets the German Eagle controlled by German Authorities.
Nevertheless we improved since several months the breechblock with more material at the place where the bottom of the case contacts the breechblock. Therefore you should have no problem at all with our 1911 California Version.


Mit freundlichen Gruessen,
Best regards,

Michael Swoboda

lethalb18c1
07-12-2012, 1:02 PM
So did they cover the shipping?
What did it cost to ship a gun back to ATI? Seems unfair to have to pay shipping to repair a gun a few weeks old.

Yes they did cover shipping to and from my place.

DinoD
07-12-2012, 1:20 PM
Yes they did cover shipping to and from my place.

Who did? GSG or ATI ? Or your Gun Dealer?
I was told ATI doesn't cover return shipping Tags.
Maybe it was because of a special circumstance ?
I tried to ask ATI and they don't answer emails for ****.

Capybara
07-12-2012, 3:20 PM
Yikes, I would be paranoid to shoot one of those after seeing this.

lethalb18c1
07-12-2012, 4:00 PM
Who did? GSG or ATI ? Or your Gun Dealer?
I was told ATI doesn't cover return shipping Tags.
Maybe it was because of a special circumstance ?
I tried to ask ATI and they don't answer emails for ****.

ATI covered everything it seems

liberallyloaded
07-13-2012, 9:55 PM
This thread makes me want a umarex colt 1911 in 22lr... This failure is nuts! At least they covered shipping though...

lethalb18c1
07-14-2012, 2:08 AM
This thread makes me want a umarex colt 1911 in 22lr... This failure is nuts! At least they covered shipping though...

Thats what I wanted before I got the GSG1911. Gotta wait til they make a california legal one... if that ever happens...

BLR81
07-15-2012, 12:12 AM
Thats what I wanted before I got the GSG1911. Gotta wait til they make a california legal one... if that ever happens...

I contacted Colt about them having their 1911-22 tested or sold in Cal and got this return email

Unfortunately the 1911 22LR is not CA compliant due to the lack of a magazine safety disconnect.



Please let me know if there is anything else I can do for you and I will be happy to assist you. Happy Shooting!!





* If replying: Please reply to include complete conversation & allow up to 72hrs for a response *

Best Regards,

Anna Dalton

Consumer Firearm Specialist

Umarex USA

liberallyloaded
07-16-2012, 12:29 AM
I contacted Colt about them having their 1911-22 tested or sold in Cal and got this return email

Well, that's brutal... I am on a mission though, I will try my damnedest to find one through SSE!

Cali-Shooter
07-16-2012, 12:32 AM
This is the second time Ive seen a GSG1911 fail in a manner like this. Not a recommended .22 firearm in my book.

heidad01
07-16-2012, 9:43 AM
OP, Thank god that you did not get very seriously injured. Many thanks to you and others for posting and letting this flaw be known to all.
I had been thinking about getting a GSG/ATI .22, but that is now a thought as scary as a heart attack.

To the Manufacturer: quote from above post,

---"Please be informed we produced already more than 100.000 GSG 1911's and only very few of them have had this problem. Perhaps due to a fault in the material of those pistols, rapid firing with to poweful ammunition or a mistake during production.

Each pistol which leaves our factory is proof fired with 30% overloaded ammunition, only then each pistol gets the German Eagle controlled by German Authorities. Nevertheless we improved since several months the breechblock with more material at the place where the bottom of the case contacts the breechblock. Therefore you should have no problem at all with our 1911 California Version.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,
Best regards,

Michael Swoboda "---


That means you have endangered over 100,000 lives who trusted you and bought one of your guns. Oh, we should be thankful that only some of these guns and not all exploded in the shooters' face. :mad:

I am a retired Sr engineer and made Cardiac devices for many years. There is absolutely no excuse for such flaw(s). That means your quality control is nonexistant or extremely poor. None of these incidents should have happened. You are not making toasters sir, you are making guns and that is very serious business. Make it well because excuses are not acceptable in serious business.

A semi auto .22 (or otherwise) should be able to shoot any off the shelf ammo it is designed for, as fast as the mechanical parts can operate and without exploding or falling apart. It is far more profitable to spend a few more pennies/dollars and use better materials, testing, and quality control than to have such shame on your Company's name.
To add insult to injury, people are reporting long waiting time, shipping charges and other inconveniences in dealing with warranty repair after one of your guns exploded in their face and/or injured them.

The least you can do is to replace the bad product with a completely new one, overnight shiping back, and most certainly a personal call to the customer and appologies for the incident.

Apec
07-16-2012, 11:28 AM
A semi auto .22 (or otherwise) should be able to shoot any off the shelf ammo it is designed for, as fast as the mechanical parts can operate and without exploding or falling apart.

Actually, quite a few guns, even proven designs, have suffered kabooms from Remington Golden ammo. Google the following: Remington Golden kaboom.

Bad ammo does exist and is pretty easy to come by.

lethalb18c1
07-16-2012, 8:02 PM
So I've emailed them on Friday early morning (1am -ish), trying to get a refund... I also asked to get a complete replacement if they didn't want to do that but I told them I rather get the full refund. Usually they'll reply within 1 business day with all my questions answered but I guess since I have the pistol back they're going to ignore me now... I guess they're going to treat like this never happened....

I brought it with me to the gun range this past weekend but didn't want to shoot it... Also didn't have a camera to catch the action if it happened again (older bro was willing to shoot it).

davaoct
07-17-2012, 12:09 PM
I finally got my refund after almost 5 months.

KandyRedCoi
07-17-2012, 5:52 PM
moral of the story, get a ruger 22/45

bernieb90
07-17-2012, 11:17 PM
After reading up on the P22 and it's cast zinc alloy slide, I found that ZAMAK alloy is about as dense/heavy as steel, but much weaker and more brittle than your basic 6061 alloy aluminum. Worst of both worlds.

Translation: They could have cast the slide out of even the most basic low alloy steel, and it would weigh about the same (so the timing of the action wouldn't change), and it'd be MUCH stronger, without being much more expensive in terms of production or material cost. The Bersa Thunder .380 is a good example of this. The slide isn't very hard, but it does the job just fine with a cartridge with twice the energy. The pistol is relatively well proven, liked, and costs less than the also imported GSG-1911 or the P22.

Or, as I was wondering all along why nobody did this - they could have gone the route Ruger took with the SR22: Make the slide out of much lighter 6061 or 7075 aluminum, but make it thicker, beefier, and stronger instead.

Casting moving parts that are subject to shock, impact, and sudden acceleration out of ZAMAK is just plain cheapskate engineering, in my book.

Here is the deal, the reason the use ZAMAK is because they can die cast the slides. ZAMAK is intended as a die casting alloy so it melts at 714734 F. In order to cast even low carbon steel requires either sand casting or for precision parts investment casting. Both procceses are very labor intensive. Die casting is like injection molding the machine does all the work, and the people just trim the gates, and send the slides off for finish machining.

I still can't figure out why the slides are failing that far back under the rear sight. Even an out of battery discharge should not do that. I would expect brass fragments, and damage to the extractor, but not a fracture at the rear of the slide.

I guess the 22/45 is still the best bet for safety. An explosion can send fragments sideways out of the port or downward into the magazine, but not up into the face (unless you are lefty).

KandyRedCoi
08-27-2012, 9:38 AM
is there anything you can do to prevent the failure as much as possible?

like using std velocity ammo?
keeping firearm clean everytime before going to shoot it?
certain mods or new parts that should be installed to make the gun more reliable?

unfortunately theres not another 1911 in .22lr thats available in CA :(

i considered a 22/45 but the controls arent really lefty friendly

DinoD
08-27-2012, 9:58 AM
There are many different companies making .22 conversion kits.
I like the Kimber one myself .

Use good ammo for at least 300 rounds !!!!


You can see if your FFL will do a SSE on a different .22 1911
Like a Chiappa .

KandyRedCoi
08-27-2012, 10:57 AM
although the 22 conversion kit looks good and probably functions great, its good to have a complete and separate pistol...although i did consider buying/building a lower and throwing a 22conversion kit on it

not quite sure if a SSE is worth the $ for a 22 pistol LoL

DinoD
08-27-2012, 11:06 AM
although the 22 conversion kit looks good and probably functions great, its good to have a complete and separate pistol...although i did consider buying/building a lower and throwing a 22conversion kit on it

not quite sure if a SSE is worth the $ for a 22 pistol LoL

In the same boat. I heard they made some improvements to the GSG1911,but
you can only do so much. I went with a ISSC M22 because turners has them for 299 .Customer service seemed to be the real issue with ATI . That's what deterred me away from the GSG1911. Then again I read some good reviews about the GSG1911. I still intend to get one ,but I'm building a AR15 first.