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SJgunguy24
05-26-2012, 9:04 AM
On VTA (public transit) Guns in locked containers are Good To Go! How did I come to find this out?
I was pulled off the train at gun point by 2 deputies, had my ID checked and he ran the serial on my gun. I protested to my gun being run and of course he didn't give 2 sh*ts about what I said.
I have no clue how anybody got the idea I had my gun with me but it doesn't really matter to me because i'm legal and now on my way. It was maybe a 5 minute interaction, Deputy Eng was professional but still caused me to miss my train.

SanPedroShooter
05-26-2012, 9:10 AM
How did they know? That would puzzle me. Can you give more details? What kind of container? Was is in your hand? Did you have loaded mags with it?

How about at the stop, did you open the case or anything?

Intimid8tor
05-26-2012, 9:11 AM
What kind of case did you have it in?

SJgunguy24
05-26-2012, 9:27 AM
How did they know? That would puzzle me. Can you give more details? What kind of container? Was is in your hand? Did you have loaded mags with it?

How about at the stop, did you open the case or anything?

Not sure, I was talking to a girl about personal protection and what works best for self defense.
I use a "fanny pack" with a lock, and of course I have 2 loaded mags.
They ran my ID and the serial on my gun. I protested to the serial but he didn't seem to care. He seemed more pissed off then anything else. They had absolutly nothing and I kept my cool the whole time. When they asked about a CCW I told them when their boss gets tossed in jail for her unconstitutional and subjective ccw policy or the county goes shall issue it'll be easier to get my license. They were aware of the law suit.

taperxz
05-26-2012, 9:29 AM
If this really happened why did you open the container for them?

taperxz
05-26-2012, 9:31 AM
What I'd also like to know since this is LUCC, did they ask about your destination?

t0kie
05-26-2012, 9:31 AM
Gun point? Shut, that's something. Glad you worked it out fine & clear to go.

SanPedroShooter
05-26-2012, 9:31 AM
My take is your conversation would have less to do about with it than a locked fanny pack as far as a giveaway. Just speculating. A cop sees a locked fanny pack, and they are all over it.

Did they seem absolutley sure you had a gun in there? Or were they just fishing (with dynamite)? Also, did you know the woman at all? Were there others around?

Just curious.

SJgunguy24
05-26-2012, 10:06 AM
I told them my carry gun was in my back pack. I really didn't want this to take any longer than it did. As it was with me cooperating I was done in 5 minutes. I couldv'e been a dick but so could they, and I wouldn't be able to start this thread because I might still be there or on my way to jail for something they made up. It happens, we all know that. The better thought from my point of view is go with the flow and i'll be on my way.

vantage
05-26-2012, 11:16 AM
Very interesting. Thanks for posting and great attitude.

M

Steyr_223
05-26-2012, 12:53 PM
Interesting..Thanks for the post..Wonder how BART police, Muni or AC transit police would have handled it..

Wondered if they would have acted if you looked "dangerous" .

The Original Godfather
05-26-2012, 1:01 PM
I guess since you volunteered info about your gun being in your fanny pack, you relinquished your right to "not consent to search", which is why the deputy didn't care if you consented or not.


And, did they really take you at gunpoint or is that an exaggeration? To my understanding, if you did not draw on them (or brandish your weapon), they can not draw on you...

wash
05-26-2012, 1:12 PM
Interesting, today I saw a group of people memorializing Zaim Bojcic who was tasered, shot and killed by SJPD for smoking.

I guess you got lucky today.

The police are really out of control and these kinds of things need to be fixed.

Even in Bosnia the police only tortured Zaim Bojcic, they didn't kill him.

Army
05-26-2012, 1:13 PM
I would have handed them the pack, then plugged my ears and closed my eyes and wait for their reaction :43:

nicoroshi
05-26-2012, 1:18 PM
Glad it ended well for you brother but sorry that you had to endure that when doing nothing illegal.

Tripper
05-26-2012, 1:26 PM
I would have handed them the pack, then plugged my ears and closed my eyes and wait for their reaction :43:


oh, thats just mean

LMFAO

Flopper
05-26-2012, 2:18 PM
Glad everything worked out, I love your store (especially the new location), best gun shop in the Bay Area!

SJgunguy24
05-26-2012, 4:56 PM
I guess since you volunteered info about your gun being in your fanny pack, you relinquished your right to "not consent to search", which is why the deputy didn't care if you consented or not.


And, did they really take you at gunpoint or is that an exaggeration? To my understanding, if you did not draw on them (or brandish your weapon), they can not draw on you...

It was a Colt AR type, ACOG optic, with a 16" barrel and an A2 FH. The other had a Remington 870 with ghost ring sights and a speed feed stock. I'm not known as a BS artist nor will I be.
I didn't present myself as a threat but I did let them know right from the start i'm not some newB who doesn't know the law. I told them where my gun was because I deemed that to be the best and quickest way to end this contact. I could've taken another attitude and who knows what could've happend. Would I be in jail on some trumped up charge having to wait until tuesday to get out, or what? I handled it the way my instincts told me to, and that doesn't let me down.
We each choose a course of action in a situation, yours may have been different. Then again, you may have ended up in custody for 3 days for nothing, who knows. My reason for this was, guess what. Guns in locked containers on VTA are GTG.

Intimid8tor
05-26-2012, 5:15 PM
It was a Colt AR type, ACOG optic, with a 16" barrel and an A2 FH. The other had a Remington 870 with ghost ring sights and a speed feed stock. I'm not known as a BS artist nor will I be.
I didn't present myself as a threat but I did let them know right from the start i'm not some newB who doesn't know the law. I told them where my gun was because I deemed that to be the best and quickest way to end this contact. I could've taken another attitude and who knows what could've happend. Would I be in jail on some trumped up charge having to wait until tuesday to get out, or what? I handled it the way my instincts told me to, and that doesn't let me down.
We each choose a course of action in a situation, yours may have been different. Then again, you may have ended up in custody for 3 days for nothing, who knows. My reason for this was, guess what. Guns in locked containers on VTA are GTG.

I'm confused. Did you have a handgun in a fannypack or an AR and shotgun in a case?

SJgunguy24
05-26-2012, 5:27 PM
I'm confused. Did you have a handgun in a fannypack or an AR and shotgun in a case?

There was a question if I was really taken out at gunpoint, the AR was pointed at me and his back up had the shotgun.

rromeo
05-26-2012, 5:32 PM
The deputies had an AR and a shotgun, respectively.

proclone1
05-26-2012, 6:08 PM
There was a question if I was really taken out at gunpoint, the AR was pointed at me and his back up had the shotgun.

Holy ****!

johnny1290
05-26-2012, 10:13 PM
An AR and a shotgun pointed at you? for a fannypack?

these cops are so far out of control and told the public is the enemy.

disgusting.

ebencikiv
05-26-2012, 10:57 PM
Glad you are ok!

goober
05-26-2012, 11:12 PM
that you walked away from this after choosing to be so cooperative is great, and thank you for sharing your experience.
that you were subjected to such treatment, is unfortunate.
the possible outcomes, had you been less "compliant" (read: totally uncaring of your rights), would have been inexcusable.

clutchy
05-26-2012, 11:14 PM
I was at a hotel recently and caught a glimpse of COPS the show on TV while surfing channels. It was in CA and they were making a traffic stop for a guy who had run. One of the cops had an AR pointed at this guy...

I was a little suprised, and now i'm even more surprised these guys showed up armed like that...

further militarization arising from threats that don't exist... perfect.

MaceWindu
05-26-2012, 11:18 PM
Deputy Eng

That would be Deputy Robert Eng...hmmph...know him well. Piece of work that one is...


MW

blap59
05-26-2012, 11:32 PM
Kind of weird that two showed up with more than pistols. Wonder what really turned them on to you. Hardly ever see them working in pairs.

Glad everything worked out, I love your store (especially the new location), best gun shop in the Bay Area!

What store is this?

Write Winger
05-26-2012, 11:59 PM
Valkyrie Arms.

That's some crazy stuff. Maybe they knew you were a gunsmith somehow.

Ron-Solo
05-27-2012, 12:49 AM
An AR and a shotgun pointed at you? for a fannypack?

these cops are so far out of control and told the public is the enemy.

disgusting.

Unless you know what information was provided to the police that initiated the contact, you are jumping to conclusions without any facts to support your assumption that they are way out of control.

tankerman
05-27-2012, 12:55 PM
Sounds like an undercover or off duty officer on the train spotted you and called it in.


Glad the encounter came to a conclusion with out any violence.

wash
05-27-2012, 9:40 PM
Unless you know what information was provided to the police that initiated the contact, you are jumping to conclusions without any facts to support your assumption that they are way out of control.
Wait a second, what kind of probable cause do you think justifies stopping a guy and pointing an "assault weapon" at him when there is no visible evidence that he is violent or violating the law?

Since the fact of the matter is that he wasn't violating any laws, what can this be beside a totally out of control use of force/threat?

If some cop decided to point an AR at me when I'm not doing anything even vaguely illegal, I would want to take it away from him and then feed it to him butt first. I would feel totally justified doing it too.

I've personally been threatened with jail for not agreeing with the police, that's not quite in the same league but when stuff like this happens over and over, there is a problem and there is no excuse for this kind of problem.

Meplat
05-28-2012, 3:29 AM
Unless you know what information was provided to the police that initiated the contact, you are jumping to conclusions without any facts to support your assumption that they are way out of control.

I usually agree with you Ron, but this time I may have to differ a bit. While I have no problem with how the officers were armed I do have an issue with how casually police take pointing guns at people. It’s getting fairly universal so I have to believe it is part of the training. Now if it was just in the OP’s general direction, without actually pointing at his body, that’s different, but I am taking the OP at his word.

A few years ago an 11yo boy was killed by an officer in a drug raid. The officer had the kid proned out in his room with a shotgun pointed at his back. The gun went off. The officer said it just went off; a malfunction. Neither the Modesto police, nor the CA DOJ, nor the FBI ever were able to duplicate the malfunction, no one could find anything wrong with the gun. It was not the first recorded ND of the officer’s career. A year earlier he accidentally shot a dead man on a suicide call. He was later promoted to detective.

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/sep/15/news/mn-21559

I just think that some tragedy could be avoided at minimal added risk to officers if they would not point guns right at people. How long does it take to move your muzzle a quarter of an inch?

Ford8N
05-28-2012, 6:38 AM
Yet another example of legal gun owners in California considered by the police as potential criminals. Avoid the police at all costs if you own guns in California.

mrdd
05-28-2012, 7:05 AM
So what do we learn from this?

Don't walk around with a locked fanny pack in California unless you like having guns pointed at you by police.

scarville
05-28-2012, 7:48 AM
Yet another example of legal gun owners in California considered by the police as potential criminals. Avoid the police at all costs if you own guns in California.
That may or my not be the best advice but it is a good idea to remember that it is "Us versus Them" because of Them not because of Us.

So what do we learn from this?

Don't walk around with a locked fanny pack in California unless you like having guns pointed at you by police.
The LUCC crowd could start video recording police encounters and putting them on You Tube. It shouldn't take long for someone in the Sacramento Axis of Dumbassery to propose a law making lockable fanny-packs illegal.

colossians323
05-28-2012, 8:11 AM
Curious, do you think they are using the type of technology that allows them to see in back packs and the like, or just the fact that he had a locked fanny pack?

CSACANNONEER
05-28-2012, 8:14 AM
Glad it ended the way it did.

I would have handed them the pack, then plugged my ears and closed my eyes and wait for their reaction :43:

Thanks, now my dogs are looking at me like I'm completely nuts. I almost fell out of my chair laughing.

Unless you know what information was provided to the police that initiated the contact, you are jumping to conclusions without any facts to support your assumption that they are way out of control.

Ron,

You do bring up a good point and the OP has clearly stated that he has no idea what provoked the initial contact in the first place. However, the fact that we know the agency involved makes it easy to "jump to conclusions" or form a reasonable hypothisis based on the informatin provided and knowledge of the prevailing attitude of the higher ups in that department. After all, their attitudes and beliefs are going to dictate training and policy for their underlings on patrol. It also sounds like the officers involved violated the law by conducting an illegal search (running the SN). I know this was after the initial contact was made but, it does further support the fact that these officers either ignored their training or have not been properly trained in the first place. Their lack of training or outright ignoring the law could go further than just an unconstitutional search. It could also be part or all of their reason for removing law abiding citizens from a train at gun point. I, for one, am glad that the OP was not in Fullerton when this happened. It could have turned out a lot worse. Let's not forget about how one officer in EPA openly bragged about how he would handle a similar situation.

SJgunguy24
05-28-2012, 8:54 AM
That would be Deputy Robert Eng...hmmph...know him well. Piece of work that one is...


MW

I think this had something to do with the way I was handled. Deputy Eng seemed to have more of a negative attitude with me. I understand the way leo's need to act in certian situations, but once one has been in uniform long enough you get a feel for people. Eng's back up knew I didn't present a threat, he was much more relaxed with me.


So what do we learn from this?

Don't walk around with a locked fanny pack in California unless you like having guns pointed at you by police.

The fanny pack was in my backpack.
Update:
Had the same driver this morning, when I got onto the train 2 security guards walked the train. I can't tell how many times I been on the train or bus with rifles in a locked case. Now on I'm not talking to anybody, just iPod in and to hell with everybody.
I was contacted by someone with the CGF, just in case I wanted to press this matter.

mrdd
05-28-2012, 9:21 AM
Now I am really confused. So all you had was a backpack? What did they say to you at first contact?

freonr22
05-28-2012, 9:28 AM
I think this had something to do with the way I was handled. Deputy Eng seemed to have more of a negative attitude with me. I understand the way leo's need to act in certian situations, but once one has been in uniform long enough you get a feel for people. Eng's back up knew I didn't present a threat, he was much more relaxed with me.




The fanny pack was in my backpack.
Update:
Had the same driver this morning, when I got onto the train 2 security guards walked the train. I can't tell how many times I been on the train or bus with rifles in a locked case. Now on I'm not talking to anybody, just iPod in and to hell with everybody.
I was contacted by someone with the CGF, just in case I wanted to press this matter.
Why wouldn't you want to?

mud99
05-28-2012, 9:44 AM
IMO, I don't care if the officers have drawn, but the moment they have their sights on me they are endangering my safety.

We all know the first rule of gun safety is to keep firearms pointed in a safe direction.

When they identified you as the suspect, they had a moment to decide whether to engage you or not, and instead of trusting their EYES, they trusted a report from an anonymous individual.

As to Ron Solo's comment, the proper time to engage is when you see a threat to your or others safety. That is the standard that every other individual is heald to, being a cop shouldn't get you a free pass. Police are far too complacent about using force.

I would pursue this, it would be a nice clean case and a good way to challenge excessive use of force.

DeanW66
05-28-2012, 3:11 PM
I'm torn between "thanks for sharing" (good info to know about VTA) and "holy crap what got them started?"

Meplat
05-28-2012, 3:39 PM
Curious, do you think they are using the type of technology that allows them to see in back packs and the like, or just the fact that he had a locked fanny pack?

Please tell me your Avatar was taken with a remotely operated camera. It gives me the willies to think of the example that is being set for that young man if it was not.