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View Full Version : Anyone have knowledge of Napa Police Dept. CCW Issuance?


Soldier415
05-09-2007, 4:28 PM
Been a resident of Napa for a year now. I have checked all the CA CCW related sites and no one seems to have any info about Napa.

Trying to research and cover my bases, anyone heard of what they usually accept as good cause?

Any and all info will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!

tango-52
05-09-2007, 5:45 PM
Lurking is fine with us, but if you actually sign in over at www.calccw.com we have quite a few members from northern California who will be able to give you the info for Napa. I'm in San Diego, so I'm out of luck for a CCW. But the more people in other counties that have their CCWs, the better the argument will be for loosening up the tougher counties.

Desert Rat
05-09-2007, 6:31 PM
........................... Contact them and ask what they are?

http://www.cityofnapa.org/departments/police/index.html

If they stonewall you, there are always methods outlined here:

http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/

Solidmch
05-09-2007, 11:02 PM
Been a resident of Napa for a year now. I have checked all the CA CCW related sites and no one seems to have any info about Napa.

Trying to research and cover my bases, anyone heard of what they usually accept as good cause?

Any and all info will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!

It will be tough. Liberal minded county. Many farmers that are pro guns. Many SF transplants that made it big and have moved to the country and are taking over.

anotherone
05-10-2007, 12:44 AM
I think Napa is a non-issue county that only issues to politicians, former law enforcement, and various elites. Could be wrong though so check the Cali CCW site. Regardlessly though in counties like Napa you will most likely need the services of a lawyer to pursue your CCW in court when it is denied. I know several well to do attorneys and executives up here in Sacramento county that fought for more than a few years and spent an upward of $20,000 in legal expenses who finally got CCWs. Not really worth the amount of effort and cost in legal fees for me... but if that's your thing it would be worth it if it cost $100,000 (which I'm sure some of the bigger "campaign contributers" no doubt spent over time on Sheriff's elections to get their CCW LOL!).

xrMike
05-10-2007, 10:45 AM
Check the website of the county Sheriff Dept., and the local PD website too.

They HAVE to publish (or make available to the public) their policy on CCW.

If it's not online, you should be able to show up at their main offices and pick up a printed copy just by asking for it.

xrMike
05-10-2007, 11:15 AM
http://www.co.napa.ca.us/GOV/Departments/DeptFAQ.asp?DID=23500#22

Soldier415
05-10-2007, 11:31 AM
http://www.co.napa.ca.us/GOV/Departments/DeptFAQ.asp?DID=23500#22

Yes, i have been to their site and seen the FAQ. But that does not give any inside knowledge and/or first person experience with being approved or denied and what the process was like, etc.

Which was more than what I am looking for. I have researched as much as possible through official sources.

My line of thought is do I even want to apply, if it is impossible to get in Napa then I won’t apply, I would rather not have to check the box saying Yes, I have been denied a permit in the past when and if I move to a county where it is almost shall-issue.

Trader Jack
05-11-2007, 12:10 AM
Been a resident of Napa for a year now. I have checked all the CA CCW related sites and no one seems to have any info about Napa.

Trying to research and cover my bases, anyone heard of what they usually accept as good cause?

Any and all info will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!

Are you referring to the city of Napa or Napa County?

If it is the city, only the police chief can issue a CCW AND the city must have 100,000 or more population. If it less then 100,00 then the sheriff of Napa county would be the person to issue. :) That would leave Napa City out.

Desert Rat
05-11-2007, 7:57 AM
Are you referring to the city of Napa or Napa County?

If it is the city, only the police chief can issue a CCW AND the city must have 100,000 or more population. If it less then 100,00 then the sheriff of Napa county would be the person to issue. :) That would leave Napa City out.

Wrong on all counts. Go here:

http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/legal.html

and you will find that a Chief of Police of an incorporated city of any size can issue a CCW to their residents unless they have delegated all issue to the County Sheriff.

The Sheriff also can issue a CCW to any resident of their county. However, most Sheriffs require residents to first apply to their Chief of Police if they reside in a incorporated city. If the Chief denies you then the Sheriff will often issue.

Read PC 12050. It is very straightforward.

DedEye
05-11-2007, 8:19 AM
Napa is definitely not an easy county to get a CCW in, but compared to some of the other counties and cities we live in, its a bit more possible. The FFL who transferred my OLL also does CCW training, and when I asked him about obtaining a CCW, he told me to call the PD and talk to the person who decides to issue CCWs. If your reason is good enough the officer will tell you whether or not you have a snowball's chance in hell, and from there you can apply officially.

xrMike
05-11-2007, 9:30 AM
If your reason is good enough the officer will tell you whether or not you have a snowball's chance in hell, and from there you can apply officially.I believe this is illegal because it's a kind of "pre-qualification" to the real qualification process. My county does the same thing. They basically evaluate your reason for wanting a CCW ahead of time, and then make a decision as to whether or not you can officially apply. If they decide your reason isn't good enough, you don't even get the paperwork to apply!

What good is a formalized, legal process if you can't have access to it? It's pretty damn slick, because basically what it does is allow the Sheriff's office to deny you, but in a way that covers their own butts by not creating any paperwork that could later be used against them in court.

Desert Rat
05-11-2007, 10:51 AM
I believe this is illegal because it's a kind of "pre-qualification" to the real qualification process. My county does the same thing. They basically evaluate your reason for wanting a CCW ahead of time, and then make a decision as to whether or not you can officially apply. If they decide your reason isn't good enough, you don't even get the paperwork to apply!

What good is a formalized, legal process if you can't have access to it? It's pretty damn slick, because basically what it does is allow the Sheriff's office to deny you, but in a way that covers their own butts by not creating any paperwork that could later be used against them in court.

Bottom line:

There are around 40,000 CCW holders in California. I am one, so can you be. You can either wonder out loud on a gun forum or you can get your facts together and apply. This article tells you what to do:

http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/gettingstarted/ccwarticle.html

Navigate around the site. There is a lot of information on the site including legal avenues if you are denied or stonewalled.

Winners never quit and quitters never win.

xrMike
05-12-2007, 9:55 PM
There are around 40,000 CCW holders in California. I am one, so can you be. You can either wonder out loud on a gun forum or you can get your facts together and apply. This article tells you what to do:

http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/gettingstarted/ccwarticle.html

Winners never quit and quitters never win.Dude, you need to stop talking out of your ***.

http://www.packing.org/state/california/image.php?stateimage=118

Your county is considered "Shall issue."

Mine is "Impossible to obtain."

Believe me when I say, "I've looked into it."

And don't come here with your 10 total posts and tell me what I ought to do.

M. Sage
05-12-2007, 10:54 PM
Dude, you need to stop talking out of your ***.

http://www.packing.org/state/california/image.php?stateimage=118

Your county is considered "Shall issue."

Mine is "Impossible to obtain."

Believe me when I say, "I've looked into it."

And don't come here with your 10 total posts and tell me what I ought to do.

Same boat here. San Mateo county, CCW? Cha, right. Maybe if I contributed a crapload of money I don't have to the Sheriff's re-election fund...

Not that I'm implying that the guy's crooked or anything. I mean, he didn't realize that was a brothel he was standing inside.

Knauga
05-13-2007, 7:59 PM
Dude, you need to stop talking out of your ***.

http://www.packing.org/state/california/image.php?stateimage=118

Your county is considered "Shall issue."

Mine is "Impossible to obtain."

Believe me when I say, "I've looked into it."

And don't come here with your 10 total posts and tell me what I ought to do.

I think his point is that there are ways to force the issue, unfortunately they involve legal action that will be draining on you until such time as you win. you may not actually get a CCW out of it, but if you (with Team Billy Jack's help) can prove violation of civil rights you will have the money to move to a county as nice as San Berdo ;)

There is doing and then there is DOING. How badly do you want it to change?

As to the post count issue being some sort of knowledge indicator, I can assure you that Desert Rat is very knowledgable on the subject and has been very helpful with me in the process. I would say that he has spent his efforts outside of a gun forum on the internet building that knowledge base and working towards improving CCW in California, whereas posting on said gun forum might feel like something is getting done, in the end it really is only talk. Yes I know there are "DOer's" on this forum as well, but post count indicates nothing but a propensity to chit-chat.

Right now those with what would reasonably be considered "good cause" in non-issue areas are the best candidates to sue, the rest of us peons need to work towards changing the system in other ways. If you have what would reasonably be considered "good cause" such as carrying large amounts of cash or valuable property and you live in a non-issue area I suggest you contact Team Billy Jack.

M. Sage
05-13-2007, 8:31 PM
you may not actually get a CCW out of it, but if you (with Team Billy Jack's help) can prove violation of civil rights you will have the money to move to a county as nice as San Berdo ;)

Something makes me doubt this very highly... Money award, sure. Multi-million dollar money award? Odds are as good as getting a CCW in San Mateo county (without being one of the "elite"). Ain't gonna happen.

Knauga
05-13-2007, 8:43 PM
Something makes me doubt this very highly... Money award, sure. Multi-million dollar money award? Odds are as good as getting a CCW in San Mateo county (without being one of the "elite"). Ain't gonna happen.

Which with the right candidate (real good cause under out currrent system) and good legal team can prove equal protection violations which can lead to fairly large judgements if not large settlements to get you to go away. You have to chip away at the system which has been slowly chipping away at your rights if you expect it to change. The more good planitffs with good backing the better the outcome will be.

So it comes back to either chatting about it, or trying to do something about it. You don't have to accept the "prequalification" standard, you can demand that they give you an application and you can apply. It will cost you money and you will most likely be denied --but on the record--.

Your choices are to fight to change the system, move to a better county or chat about it.

Besides, you can live fairly inexpensively in parts of San Berdo county ;)

metalhead357
05-14-2007, 8:16 PM
Napa IS semi tuff: I know several with permits: most got them 2 chiefs ago--none met from last or current chief; current speculation is current chief is only so-so on them and you neeed a "REAL" good reason.

Throw in & try...you got nothing to loose but some time if they say no......

Glock22Fan
05-15-2007, 1:42 PM
Something makes me doubt this very highly... Money award, sure. Multi-million dollar money award? Odds are as good as getting a CCW in San Mateo county (without being one of the "elite"). Ain't gonna happen.

Our principal, Billy Jack, has already won 7 figure awards (in 1984, adjust for inflation). See Guillory v. Gates for more information http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/legal/guillory.html

Guillory v. Gates took quite a few years to resolve. However, its principles hold fast today and need not be re-argued.

At that time, Orange County was no issue. Look at it now. Guillory v. Gates (and a change of Sheriffs) opened it up completely.

SensFan
05-15-2007, 2:56 PM
Our principal, Billy Jack, has already won 7 figure awards (in 1984, adjust for inflation). See Guillory v. Gates for more information http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/legal/guillory.html

Guillory v. Gates took quite a few years to resolve. However, its principles hold fast today and need not be re-argued.

At that time, Orange County was no issue. Look at it now. Guillory v. Gates (and a change of Sheriffs) opened it up completely.


Oh, Come on, John! Carona became Sheriff in 1999, 15 years after Guillory v Gates. How the hell could he have "opened it up completely?".

Also, Guillory never got his CCW as a result of the Lawsuit, he got money.

What he SHOULD Have done was carried all that money around, and used IT as his Good Cause...

IAmASensFan
05-15-2007, 3:01 PM
Our principal, Billy Jack, has already won 7 figure awards (in 1984, adjust for inflation). See Guillory v. Gates for more information http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/legal/guillory.html

Guillory v. Gates took quite a few years to resolve. However, its principles hold fast today and need not be re-argued.

At that time, Orange County was no issue. Look at it now. Guillory v. Gates (and a change of Sheriffs) opened it up completely.

At least Knauga tells it a little more accurately

I think his point is that there are ways to force the issue, unfortunately they involve legal action that will be draining on you until such time as you win. you may not actually get a CCW out of it, but if you (with Team Billy Jack's help) can prove violation of civil rights you will have the money to move to a county as nice as San Berdo

tango-52
05-15-2007, 3:05 PM
And the money awarded was not because of a denial on the CCW, it was because of the false arrests and police harassment that he endured because he dared to challenge the Sheriff at that time (1985). He had to move to another county to get his CCW. And there was no change in CCW policy until Carona became Sheriff in 1999. So if people are willing to risk the same treatment from a vindictive Sheriff, I say more power to them. They just shouldn't expect that their trouble will result in an "opening up" of CCW issuance for all their heartache.

Python2
05-15-2007, 3:08 PM
Oh, Come on, John! Carona became Sheriff in 1999, 15 years after Guillory v Gates. How the hell could he have "opened it up completely?".

Also, Guillory never got his CCW as a result of the Lawsuit, he got money.

What he SHOULD Have done was carried all that money around, and used IT as his Good Cause...

Um, plus more than ten years of fighting in the court and still did'nt get the CCW. Moved to another county to get it. If you guys want to wait that long and invest thousands of dollars in litigation then go for it. If you simply want your CCW, I think Nevada move is a better choice:)

IAmASensFan
05-15-2007, 4:04 PM
Um, plus more than ten years of fighting in the court and still did'nt get the CCW. Moved to another county to get it. If you guys want to wait that long and invest thousands of dollars in litigation then go for it. If you simply want your CCW, I think Nevada move is a better choice:)


I know, but I didn't want to steal ALL the thunder.

Glock22Fan
05-18-2007, 4:38 PM
The original posting said, in effect, that there was no real money to be made by winning court cases. In my view, $1.3 million is very real, so I think that proved him wrong.

Then a number of people attacked the court case, and Preston. If you are tempted to believe them, I ask you to

Read the court case:

http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/legal/guillory.html

Read the analysis by an attorney:

http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/opinion1.pdf

Then decide for yourselves.

Basically, Preston won a big victory for CCW applicants; not the whole war, just one battle. His ten years means that you don't have to spend ten years establishing the same basic legal principles.

The false arrest was a tactic by the defendants because they thought they were going to lose. They did, but the award was for the original lawsuit, not for false arrest.

Preston can be rude and abrasive to people who he thinks are stupid. They then prove him right by their total misunderstanding and stupidity. Not an attack on anyone here, just an observation.

Some people think that the legal system works in such a way that you prove your case, and everyone rolls over and gives you everything you want. It doesn't. CCW cases are going to be won in small increments, a little here, a little there.

Just tell me one person who has won more in court for CCW issuance than Preston. I don't know of anyone.

Rather than get into a lengthy flame battle, I do not propose to add anything more to this thread under any provocation. People who cannot understand Appeal Court judgements can carry on making fools of themselves.