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View Full Version : Any field test comparisons around between DI and piston rifles?


kAnJii
05-24-2012, 3:37 PM
I see a lot of DD VS LMT or Colt or whatever is out there. Wondering if there is a comparison between DI and piston. Love to have a XCR, but would like to see how they handle out there. Saw a torture test on it on youtube, did very well except for the heavy mud part.
If there is something in the forum, just let me know to use the search :D

Thank you for your cooperation.

MrPlink
05-24-2012, 3:41 PM
This has been covered 46767976761298 times, use search!

djleisure
05-24-2012, 3:52 PM
This is the only one you'll EVER need to see.

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steve92407
05-24-2012, 4:41 PM
Well unless you are a class 3 sot you cannot own a post 86 weapon. So what is the point?

Solidux
05-24-2012, 5:06 PM
As a civillian, you wont notice much of a difference between the 2. I kind of like DI because I enjoy cleaning my firearms. Now if you do swampland drills and hunt alligators... then the GP has ... an advantage.

818gtiguy
05-24-2012, 5:18 PM
Both of these are D.I. ..The first one (Colt) fails after around 1000rds fired in full auto, non stop mag changes..The gas tube ruptures($15 part) and the rifles turns into a single shot. I couldnt find any vids with piston ARs with similar tests.

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kAnJii
05-24-2012, 6:22 PM
This has been covered 46767976761298 times, use search!

Ya, I know..DI vs Piston has been covered so many times. But I'm looking more for a XCR comparison. I wonder if Robarm was able to get the XCR on time for the military a few years, would we be using this system today or slowly implementing it. Navy SEALs and SWAT using xcr mini instead of mp5s..etc.

NorCalK9.com
05-24-2012, 8:30 PM
Piston beats di! case closed.

tomd1584
05-24-2012, 8:34 PM
Piston beats di! case closed.

Please, stop with the nonsense.

MrPlink
05-24-2012, 8:36 PM
Incredibly unlikely the xcr would have been selected, go to m4carbine forum and do a search there on it.

NorCalK9.com
05-24-2012, 9:23 PM
Tomd1584.
Whats nonsense? Piston = greater reliability. Whats nonsense about that? Look at all the tests, piston wins. Case closed.

MrPlink
05-25-2012, 12:16 AM
Tomd1584.
Whats nonsense? Piston = greater reliability. Whats nonsense about that? Look at all the tests, piston wins. Case closed.

here come the LMT L129A1 guys!

G60
05-25-2012, 12:38 AM
Tomd1584.
Whats nonsense? Piston = greater reliability. Whats nonsense about that? Look at all the tests, piston wins. Case closed.

Link? No bull**** youtube "torture tests" either.

NorCalK9.com
05-25-2012, 9:47 AM
I cant remember the link but the best the di ar/m16 has ever done in military testing between 4 rifles 3 piston operating systems and the 4th being the di AR/m16. the Ar/m16 experinced 3.5x more failures than the 3rd place piston system and of course the only reason the di wasnt replaced is becausr of politicians wanting to save money and colt lowered their price to make the politicians happy. Im sure someone knows thr link to these military tests.
Also both my AR's are di soni aint just saying this to make my rifles look better. I DO NOT OWN A PISTON AR!

Standard
05-25-2012, 11:57 AM
The XCR is an EXCELLENT carbine. But comparing it to the operating system of a DI AR just doesn't make sense. It's more of an AK operating system, and has very little in common with an AR other than looks.
The whole piston vs DI thing is just stupid and you won't notice a difference either way.

Yemff
05-25-2012, 12:22 PM
for all practical purposes, I'm sure either one will be fine, I don't know about you but I don't go dunking under water before I go shooting. All of the justifications people will give you will most likely some super obscure testing, or something they heard about some special forces guy. But back here in the civilian world, we aren't going to encounter anything compared to people in the military, so just get which ever gun you like.

Standard
05-25-2012, 12:24 PM
for all practical purposes, I'm sure either one will be fine, I don't know about you but I don't go dunking under water before I go shooting. All of the justifications people will give you will most likely some super obscure testing, or something they heard about some special forces guy. But back here in the civilian world, we aren't going to encounter anything compared to people in the military, so just get which ever gun you like.

Yup.

BucDan
05-25-2012, 12:51 PM
I have a question, if piston was so great and known back in the days when the AR-15 was being created by Stoner and friends, why didn't Stoner just make the AR a piston design to begin with? I know that he had a design similar that was piston and another that was DI.

NorCalK9.com
05-25-2012, 2:06 PM
@bucdan.
Well why not make all vehicles run on diesel? Diesel engines are stronger and last longer, fuel economy is great and better for environment.
Thats why theres di rifles, piston rifles, bolt action, and muzzle loaders.
Why didnt stoner go with piston? Maybe less expensive to do di.
I love 1 of my ar's its a di im not bashing di im just making the point that piston runs with less malfunctions for the most part.

Inquirer
05-25-2012, 3:10 PM
The XCR is an EXCELLENT carbine. But comparing it to the operating system of a DI AR just doesn't make sense. It's more of an AK operating system, and has very little in common with an AR other than looks.
The whole piston vs DI thing is just stupid and you won't notice a difference either way.

I've heard more malfunction reports and horror stories about the XCR than any AR, DI or Piston. Certainly moreso than AKs. Not as much as the ACR, but still. This is coming from an XCR fan, though. I love that thing - aesthetics, action, etc. But the fact of the matter is the web is clogged with complaints about it. Hopefully that's worked out.

--Inq

Standard
05-25-2012, 3:40 PM
I've heard more malfunction reports and horror stories about the XCR than any AR, DI or Piston. Certainly moreso than AKs. Not as much as the ACR, but still. This is coming from an XCR fan, though. I love that thing - aesthetics, action, etc. But the fact of the matter is the web is clogged with complaints about it. Hopefully that's worked out.

--Inq

Well I've actually owned and shot mine, and it was excellent. Ergonomics, recoil, adjustability (gas/barrels), etc.

SNCaliber
05-25-2012, 4:02 PM
Piston if you have the money and are lazy and don't want to clean your rifle, I highly doubt most of us require a piston AR since we are not in combat or a LEO, DI is fine for most if you just regularly clean your rifle IMO.

NealDA
05-25-2012, 4:32 PM
I have a question, if piston was so great and known back in the days when the AR-15 was being created by Stoner and friends, why didn't Stoner just make the AR a piston design to begin with? I know that he had a design similar that was piston and another that was DI.

If you read the the history behind the designing of the platform, it was made DI for cost reasons.

CIV Tactical
05-25-2012, 5:10 PM
you want function and reliability without question. Get an AK47 my friend. Way more gun for the money comapared to any AR piston or not.

NorCalK9.com
05-25-2012, 6:44 PM
@civ tactical.
Lmao nah ak74 thats the beast thats cheap to shoot.

CIV Tactical
05-25-2012, 8:25 PM
@civ tactical.
Lmao nah ak74 thats the beast thats cheap to shoot.

big time. I like AR's and all but if your concerned about function and reliability then you got to go with AK type and HKG3/Cetme, FAL or SIG 551. these have all proven to be beasts with incredible function and reliability. The roller blowback system is the bomb in the g3/cetme and the piston operation of the rest has proven themselves in the roughest of combat conditions. the G3 is my fav:D

kAnJii
05-25-2012, 8:54 PM
big time. I like AR's and all but if your concerned about function and reliability then you got to go with AK type and HKG3/Cetme, FAL or SIG 551. these have all proven to be beasts with incredible function and reliability. The roller blowback system is the bomb in the g3/cetme and the piston operation of the rest has proven themselves in the roughest of combat conditions. the G3 is my fav:D

That's why I am impressed with the xcr. Ak system in an AR type body. If AK is the more reliable system and Robarm using using a similar system with a beefy 3 lug piece, would it overall be more reliable than DI and close to Ak?

CIV Tactical
05-25-2012, 9:30 PM
That's why I am impressed with the xcr. Ak system in an AR type body. If AK is the more reliable system and Robarm using using a similar system with a beefy 3 lug piece, would it overall be more reliable than DI and close to Ak?

Yes. Any time you can get away from directly blowing burnt propellent gasses on your functioning parts you are going to increase the reliability and reduce the fouling big time. AR's are great guns however they do require extended maintence. I have DI and piston AR's and I love them both however the AK's and G3 I own are my SHTF guns, my camping guns and my go to beasts. The xcr seems to be an overall well built firearm. I dont know how much it costs but remember there is a lot of hype and you dont want to give your money away for a firearm especially if its a tool for protecting yourself. Good guns arnt cheap and cheap guns arnt good. If you like the tactical look, there are lots of AK47 attachments and furnitures to pick from now that will give you a nice look with a functioning machine.

NorCalK9.com
05-25-2012, 9:35 PM
Here ya go.
Ones a di the others a piston. You guess.

http://i.imgur.com/VMa5X.jpg

MrPlink
05-25-2012, 9:35 PM
That's why I am impressed with the xcr. Ak system in an AR type body. If AK is the more reliable system and Robarm using using a similar system with a beefy 3 lug piece, would it overall be more reliable than DI and close to Ak?

What drives the action alone is not the only thing that determines reliability or ruggedness.

You might as well say, since Honda civics are reliable, all 4cyl cars are reliable.

You need to look at the big picture and consider the platform as a whole.

CIV Tactical
05-25-2012, 9:39 PM
What drives the action alone is not the only thing that determines reliability or ruggedness.

You might as well say, since Honda civics are reliable, all 4cyl cars are reliable.

You need to look at the big picture and consider the platform as a whole.

Thank you MR.Plink... Very well said.

Striker
05-25-2012, 9:52 PM
I see a lot of DD VS LMT or Colt or whatever is out there. Wondering if there is a comparison between DI and piston. Love to have a XCR, but would like to see how they handle out there. Saw a torture test on it on youtube, did very well except for the heavy mud part.
If there is something in the forum, just let me know to use the search :D

Thank you for your cooperation.

Most every SME will tell you that piston driven ARs are excellent if you do a lot of full auto fire and or fire a lot of suppressed rounds through an SBR. Beyond that there really are no advantages to the piston AR. Also, to my knowledge, the only piston AR to get run overseas and work well is the HK416. Good luck finding one.

The AK is a completely different beast. Better? Better is all in who you are and what you want. Given a choice, I prefer an AR, but it wouldn't bother me to stake my life on either platform as long as, and someone else mentioned this earlier, it's a quality rifle.

IIRC, Robinson says that the XCR is neither an AR nor an AK. Just as a SCAR is neither. So, if you want the XCR, by all means, get it. Run it hard and see if it will hold up. That's really the only way you're going to know for sure.

Dhena81
05-25-2012, 10:11 PM
NorKal what happened here lol

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818gtiguy
05-25-2012, 10:39 PM
^^^ That video proves the AK is a POS and the AR is superior....nuff said...

NorCalK9.com
05-25-2012, 11:25 PM
@dhena81 818gtigug
Well if either of you wanna bring your di ar's out and we can replicate that and go much beyond that.
I'll put up a nice sum of cash on the table.

NorCalK9.com
05-25-2012, 11:28 PM
Whatnhappened here? Guess the pos is still better than di.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wIFsG0ey4g&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Dhena81
05-25-2012, 11:44 PM
Whatnhappened here? Guess the pos is still better than di.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wIFsG0ey4g&feature=youtube_gdata_player

:surrender: LOL if an AR can't function with a twinkie shoved into the action then I may have to keep my AK's and trade my AR's in to get more AK's.

X7IGHWIMNE0

sd1023x
05-26-2012, 8:41 AM
...

bighead
05-26-2012, 9:43 AM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JFZ3yUMH5IA

NorCalK9.com
05-26-2012, 3:34 PM
For every 1 test you find the ar wins theres hundreds that say otherwise! but good videos though.

tbhracing
05-26-2012, 3:45 PM
Tagged

Dhena81
05-26-2012, 4:22 PM
For every 1 test you find the ar wins theres hundreds that say otherwise! but good videos though.

Maybe but remember at the same time there are tons more variables like manufactures, ammo, magazines, gas system, gas port diameter, action springs, buffer weight, and just parts in general with an AR than there is with an AK. With an AR there is a lot more stacking tolerance issues associated with the popularity and design of the weapon.

rogervzv
05-26-2012, 5:40 PM
Piston beats di! case closed.
+1 LOL :D

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a331/Roger54/Gun%20Stuff/DSC_0602.jpghttp://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a331/Roger54/Gun%20Stuff/DSC_0585.jpg

kAnJii
05-26-2012, 5:49 PM
+1 LOL :D

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a331/Roger54/Gun%20Stuff/DSC_0602.jpghttp://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a331/Roger54/Gun%20Stuff/DSC_0585.jpg

Nice sr556e :D

What do you think of it so far?