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nicki
05-24-2012, 3:44 AM
Have a friend who is in a short term money crunch, their ex destroyed their credit.

They have guns they would rather not sell, rather they would like to do personal loans with trusted friends and giving possession of the guns as security for the loans.

Could this be done legally without all the background and DROS checks? The transfer fees back and forth would kinda make it not worth the trouble.

Nicki

Dutch3
05-24-2012, 3:58 AM
I believe the time limit for the loan of a firearm is 30 days. After that, it becomes an illegal transfer unless a legal transfer is done.

Also, if the firearm is a handgun, the borrower must have a valid HSC.

Don29palms
05-24-2012, 5:21 AM
So the owner would have to take possesion of the firearm back every 29 days and then loan it back out.

morrcarr67
05-24-2012, 5:23 AM
I believe the time limit for the loan of a firearm is 30 days. After that, it becomes an illegal transfer unless a legal transfer is done.

Also, if the firearm is a handgun, the borrower must have a valid HSC.

So the owner would have to take possesion of the firearm back every 29 days and then loan it back out.

Yup, Dutch hit it right on the nose.

CSACANNONEER
05-24-2012, 5:29 AM
So the owner would have to take possesion of the firearm back every 29 days and then loan it back out.

I believe the law reads "infrequent loans". Reloaning something over and over again would not fall into this catagory.

Quiet
05-24-2012, 5:52 AM
I believe the law reads "infrequent loans". Reloaning something over and over again would not fall into this catagory.

You are correct.

Loans lasting more than 30 days and frequent loans must be transferred through a CA FFL dealer.

edwardm
05-24-2012, 6:07 AM
Have a friend who is in a short term money crunch, their ex destroyed their credit.

They have guns they would rather not sell, rather they would like to do personal loans with trusted friends and giving possession of the guns as security for the loans.

Could this be done legally without all the background and DROS checks? The transfer fees back and forth would kinda make it not worth the trouble.

Nicki

See PC26505(a). Then reference PC16960(b).

I've wondered about that exception under "operation of law" for 6 or 7 years now, and I've never quite had the time to chase it down. It may be what you want to look into.

Librarian
05-24-2012, 11:37 AM
See PC26505(a). Then reference PC16960(b).

I've wondered about that exception under "operation of law" for 6 or 7 years now, and I've never quite had the time to chase it down. It may be what you want to look into.

(b) A secured creditor or an agent or employee of a secured
creditor when a firearm is possessed as collateral for, or as a
result of, a default under a security agreement under the Commercial
Code.might indeed be what you're looking for, but I don't know how formal the agreement must be for it to qualify as "a security agreement under the Commercial Code."

Might have to file an OPLAW form for handgun(s) going to the lendee and and back each time, putting a $38 (total) tax on the loan process.

tpuig
05-24-2012, 1:21 PM
What if he charges a "rental" fee for storage in the friends' safe? Not really on loan, just being stored in a safe location. Hmmm.....

Meplat
05-24-2012, 2:41 PM
When any party to the lending of the arm is asked by anyone about when the loan was made the answer is: "Last unday.":43:

Quiet
05-24-2012, 3:32 PM
What if he charges a "rental" fee for storage in the friends' safe? Not really on loan, just being stored in a safe location. Hmmm.....

Default to what BATFE says is "storage".
Firearms need to be stored locked away with the owner being the only person possessing the key/combo to the locked container. No one can have access to the firearms without the owner present.

rysmithjr
05-24-2012, 4:56 PM
were the loaners of the cash expecting to use the weapons during the period of the load, or just hold as collateral? Wouldn't a written contract stipulating the guns as collateral for the debt be enough? only go thru the transfer process if they default on the loan.

bwiese
05-24-2012, 4:57 PM
I believe the law reads "infrequent loans". Reloaning something over and over again would not fall into this catagory.

Yup.

Plus if things fall thru there's a "transfer without DROS" that's an issue.

alfred1222
05-24-2012, 5:38 PM
were the loaners of the cash expecting to use the weapons during the period of the load, or just hold as collateral? Wouldn't a written contract stipulating the guns as collateral for the debt be enough? only go thru the transfer process if they default on the loan.

I think this works for sure

CSACANNONEER
05-24-2012, 5:39 PM
Default to what BATFE says is "storage".
Firearms need to be stored locked away with the owner being the only person possessing the key/combo to the locked container. No one can have access to the firearms without the owner present.

:confused: Is this just an AFTE opinion or actual law?

Quiet
05-24-2012, 9:35 PM
:confused: Is this just an AFTE opinion or actual law?
BATFE NFA Branch position on storage of Title 2 firearms in another state.

It's the only thing about what "storage" is, that I know about.