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hondo44
05-23-2012, 5:55 PM
Is anyone familiar with a recent DOJ ruling that says holders
of the California Certificate of Eligibility (COE) may no longer use it to
avoid the 10-day wait on purchase of C&R handguns?

What is the status or when does it go into effect?

I understand a couple of CA firearms attorneys are challenging the ruling, but I still don't know what the status is.

Thanks,
Jim

wildhawker
05-23-2012, 6:11 PM
As of May 14.

http://oal.ca.gov/res/docs/pdf/Web_Daily_Reports/Underground_Regs.pdf

-Brandon

ColdDeadHands1
05-23-2012, 6:53 PM
Brandon:
What does that list mean? Is that "our" Jason Davis or someone else.

I can tell you all that I just bought two C&R handguns recently on the same day, in two different DROS's, with no 10 day wait with my FFL-03 + COE. :43::43::43:

hondo44
05-23-2012, 7:11 PM
Brandon,

Thx for the speedy response.

Is it the first item listed in the chart, 'Assault Weapon' at the link you sent?

I believe the propose bill is AB 1559 "Firearms Dealer Regulatory Reform".

Jim

TheExpertish
05-23-2012, 7:16 PM
Well that's a crock. I'll have to search for that. I got my COE not too long ago and was looking forward to this.

hondo44
05-23-2012, 7:40 PM
Don't be too disheartened yet. Here's what I found:

The bill is: AB 1559 "Firearms Dealer Regulatory Reform", amending Section 33300 of the Penal Code, relating to firearms. The bill summary as of 5/1/12 was:
http://blog.crpa.org/?page_id=1269

However, it appears as though all the odious language was scratched in hearings including the "is not a handgun" in context to exemption from the Brady Law (10 day wait), and if you click on STATUS in the top bar in the link below, as of 5/17/12 it's "Referred to Com. on PUB. S."
http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201120120AB1559
Bottom line, it does not appear to be in affect, rather still in process and going in the right direction.

run8
05-23-2012, 7:44 PM
Well I guess I won't bother to renew my COE, may not even renew my FFL 03 either, to hell with CA.

wildhawker
05-23-2012, 7:47 PM
ColdDeadHands1,

Yes, it's our Jason.

http://calffl.org/news/news/93-california-office-of-administrative-law-accepts-petition-challenging-doj-assault-weapons-provision.html

-Brandon

wildhawker
05-23-2012, 7:50 PM
Brandon,

Thx for the speedy response.

Is it the first item listed in the chart, 'Assault Weapon' at the link you sent?

I believe the propose bill is AB 1559 "Firearms Dealer Regulatory Reform".

Jim

The Portantino 1559 bill is unrelated to COE or our OAL petition.

We'll have more news soon. Hang tight for a day or two.

-Brandon

hondo44
05-23-2012, 8:03 PM
The Portantino 1559 bill is unrelated to COE or our OAL petition.

We'll have more news soon. Hang tight for a day or two.

-Brandon

Thanks Brandon. My original post was about the elimination of the C&R handgun 10 day wait exemption with a California Certificate of Eligibility; AB 1559.

But Jason's action about eliminating "underground regulation" is great news.
Thx,
Jim

wildhawker
05-23-2012, 8:05 PM
Read AB 1559. Think about why it's been amended...

-Brandon

hondo44
05-23-2012, 8:17 PM
Read AB 1559. Think about why it's been amended...

-Brandon

Oh I read it and the latest scratched version; the original amendment language seems to have been scratched in hearings. I'm sorry I don't see your point. Are you referring to AB 1559 as a case of a thwarted attempt to legalize “underground regulation”?

Jim

wildhawker
05-23-2012, 8:28 PM
Oh I read it and the latest scratched version; the original amendment language seems to have been scratched in hearings. I'm sorry I don't see your point. Are you referring to AB 1559 as a case of a thwarted attempt to legalize “underground regulation”?

Jim

I suppose I'm not understanding your posts, either, then.

AB 1559 has to do with import issues. That's it.

-Brandon

ke6guj
05-23-2012, 9:00 PM
does anybody have a link to the ruling?

why would they say that you can't use a COE to eliminate the 10-day wait on a C&R handgun when that exemption is codified in the PC. I could see them trying to claim that you can't C&R+COE a modern handgun (since that probably wasn't the intent of the law), but why wouldn't it work for a C&R handgun?

wildhawker
05-23-2012, 9:03 PM
does anybody have a link to the ruling?

why would they say that you can't use a COE to eliminate the 10-day wait on a C&R handgun when that exemption is codified in the PC. I could see them trying to claim that you can't C&R+COE a modern handgun (since that probably wasn't the intent of the law), but why wouldn't it work for a C&R handgun?

There isn't any link yet. Give me 1-2 days and we'll have more.

-Brandon

hondo44
05-23-2012, 9:09 PM
As amended yes it does pertain to importation issues. But as it was originally proposed it included some onerous changes eliminating exemptions of the 10 day wait for handguns by holders of C&R licenses with a COE.

As stated by The Ca Rifle and Pistol Assoc. in the 1st link of my #6 post:

"Purpose of Legislation: This bill would provide that the current requirement to complete the transfer through a licensed firearms dealer does not apply to the transfer of a firearm if the transfer is infrequent, the firearm is not a handgun, the firearm is a curio or relic, the person receiving the firearm has a current certificate of eligibility,..."

Currently C&R handguns are included in the exemption from transfer through an FFL and 10 day wait, but as AB 1559 was proposed, the underlined portion above excluded handguns.

wildhawker
05-23-2012, 9:19 PM
I'm not sure why you're investing so much energy into a bill that is no longer what you're talking about, and hasn't been for months.

-Brandon

As amended yes it does pertain to importation issues. But as it was originally proposed it included some onerous changes eliminating exemptions of the 10 day wait for handguns by holders of C&R licenses with a COE.

As stated by The Ca Rifle and Pistol Assoc. in the 1st link of my #6 post:

"Purpose of Legislation: This bill would provide that the current requirement to complete the transfer through a licensed firearms dealer does not apply to the transfer of a firearm if the transfer is infrequent, the firearm is not a handgun, the firearm is a curio or relic, the person receiving the firearm has a current certificate of eligibility,..."

Currently C&R handguns are included in the exemption from transfer through an FFL and 10 day wait, but as AB 1559 was proposed, the underlined portion above excluded handguns.

goober
05-23-2012, 9:24 PM
AB 1559 did not, as originally written, have any wording that would remove the exemption from the normal 10-day wait for purchase of C&R handguns by those possessing an 03 FFL and COE.
As amended, it applies only to importation of certain items, as Brandon mentioned.
A search of current session legislation with the terms ":handgun", "certificate", and "eligibility" yields no bills that propose the changes suggested in the OP.
Perhaps there is some confusion w/ SB1567 La Malfa, which exempts folks having an LTC from the 10 day wait for delivery of a firearm?

goober
05-23-2012, 9:28 PM
As amended yes it does pertain to importation issues. But as it was originally proposed it included some onerous changes eliminating exemptions of the 10 day wait for handguns by holders of C&R licenses with a COE.


No, it didn't. You linked to the bill text yourself. Please indicate the stricken portion to which you are referring. The line you just quoted does not do what you are claiming it does. If anything it would have been a good thing. But it's gone now, so its moot anyway.

As stated by The Ca Rifle and Pistol Assoc. in the 1st link of my #6 post:

"Purpose of Legislation: This bill would provide that the current requirement to complete the transfer through a licensed firearms dealer does not apply to the transfer of a firearm if the transfer is infrequent, the firearm is not a handgun, the firearm is a curio or relic, the person receiving the firearm has a current certificate of eligibility,..."

Currently C&R handguns are included in the exemption from transfer through an FFL and 10 day wait, but as AB 1559 was proposed, the underlined portion above excluded handguns.

No, they aren't. You can't currently buy a C&R handgun in CA without going through an FFL, regardless of whether you have a COE.

hondo44
05-23-2012, 9:55 PM
AB 1559 did not, as originally written, have any wording that would remove the exemption from the normal 10-day wait for purchase of C&R handguns by those possessing an 03 FFL and COE.
As amended, it applies only to importation of certain items, as Brandon mentioned.
A search of current session legislation with the terms ":handgun", "certificate", and "eligibility" yields no bills that propose the changes suggested in the OP.
Perhaps there is some confusion w/ SB1567 La Malfa, which exempts folks having an LTC from the 10 day wait for delivery of a firearm?

As originally written yes, quoted post #16, last line. That's how they try to slip this crap by us, one can not even 'see' what they're writing.

As currently written (amended), no, not since 4/11/12 which I found out today.

No confusion with SB 1567, which only deals with waiting period exemptions relative to CCW holders and Law Enforcement Officers and we should all support.

goober
05-23-2012, 10:00 PM
As originally written yes, quoted post #16, last line. That's how they try to slip this crap by us, one can not even 'see' what they're writing.

As currently written (amended), no, not since 4/11/12 which I found out today.

No confusion with SB 1567, which only deals with waiting period exemptions relative to CCW holders and Law Enforcement Officers and we should all support.

Huh?
Last line of post #16 is your incorrect statement regarding the fact that C&R handgun purchases are exempted from transfer through FFL. referring to it doesn't make it accurate.

Another hint: Don't get your legislative info from CRPA.

hondo44
05-23-2012, 10:34 PM
Huh?
Last line of post #16 is your incorrect statement regarding the fact that C&R handgun purchases are exempted from transfer through FFL. referring to it doesn't make it accurate.

Another hint: Don't get your legislative info from CRPA.

goober.
Sorry, no but stating it clearer will:
Currently C&R handguns are included in the exemption from transfer through an FFL WITH 10 day wait,...

Yes I know you currently have to go thru an FFL, but not WITH the wait.

So just to be clear you're not aware of any proposal to require the wait on C&R firearms when transferred thru a dealer?

goober
05-23-2012, 10:59 PM
OK.
Currently:
An 03 FFL holder must go though an 01 FFL in order to purchase a C&R handgun in CA.
If the purchaser also has a COE, there is no 10 day wait.


I know of no current bills (including AB1559) or other proposals to change those rules.

Even prior to amendment AB1559 would not have changed those rules. It would have given licensed manufacturers of ammunition the same exemptions (and more) as FFL03 licensees w/ COE, but it would not have removed any privileges from 03FFL/COE holders.

Cylarz
05-24-2012, 1:12 AM
OK.
Currently:
An 03 FFL holder must go though an 01 FFL in order to purchase a C&R handgun in CA.
If the purchaser also has a COE, there is no 10 day wait.


I know of no current bills (including AB1559) or other proposals to change those rules.

Even prior to amendment AB1559 would not have changed those rules. It would have given licensed manufacturers of ammunition the same exemptions (and more) as FFL03 licensees w/ COE, but it would not have removed any privileges from 03FFL/COE holders.


This is news to me. It was my understanding that in California (unlike in other states), C&R license+COE was always useless for getting around the 10-day wait for handguns, even C&R eligible ones. Long guns only, I thought.

Maybe I thought that since my favorite gun shop in this area (which I'll leave unnamed) simply refuses to exempt any of its customers from the 10-day wait for any handgun. (Is this legal? Or is there some provision in the law stating that FFL01's don't have to honor the exemption if they don't feel like it? I'm guessing they're on solid ground, since most service-based businesses reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.)

They'll still do it for C&R eligible rifles & shotguns, but the store owner seems to spend a lot of time worrying about CA-DOJ bursting through his store's front door and putting him out of business.

Only one other gun shop in this area even has C&R eligible weapons - of any type - and I would imagine they have a similar policy.

Cylarz
05-24-2012, 1:14 AM
Oh, and since we're on the subject of COE's....is mine going to serve any purpose when the long gun registration goes into effect on 1/1/14? Is it even going to be possible to purchase C&R-eligible long guns from an FFL01 w/o a 10-day wait?

My renewal notice for my COE came yesterday. I'll renew it this year since this go-around will expire in mid-2013, but should I bother with it when it comes up for renewal *again* at that time?

Stainned
05-24-2012, 8:20 AM
A few moths ago I walked out with a modern handgun the day I purchased it FFL03 & COE. The same store recently said that the DOJ contacted them saying they are no longer allowed to do so with modern guns.

stitchnicklas
05-24-2012, 8:38 AM
A few moths ago I walked out with a modern handgun the day I purchased it FFL03 & COE. The same store recently said that the DOJ contacted them saying they are no longer allowed to do so with modern guns.

c&r only allowed