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Quickdraw559
05-23-2012, 4:27 PM
Hey guys. Not too familiar with the laws regarding bullet buttons, but I have seen many ads and posts regarding tools used to operate the bullet button.

Would it be legal to have a glove with a built-in, "bullet tip?" Just a small point on the index finger or something to operate the bullet button. To my understanding, you have to use a tool, so would a bullet tipped glove be considered a tool, or an article of clothing?

AR15 Guy
05-23-2012, 4:29 PM
use the search function.....this topic comes up almost once a week:facepalm:

Don29palms
05-23-2012, 4:39 PM
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg164/don29palms/BBGlove.jpg

djleisure
05-23-2012, 4:39 PM
Hey guys. Not too familiar with the laws regarding bullet buttons, but I have seen many ads and posts regarding tools used to operate the bullet button.

Would it be legal to have a glove with a built-in, "bullet tip?" Just a small point on the index finger or something to operate the bullet button. To my understanding, you have to use a tool, so would a bullet tipped glove be considered a tool, or an article of clothing?
Yes, perfectly legal. I use a GPik in the middle finger of my glove and can drop mags almost as fast as w/o a bullet button.

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/dj_leisure/GPik/IMG_0189.jpg

Quickdraw559
05-23-2012, 8:15 PM
Hmmmm, and I thought I had an idea, there. Apparently, I did, but I'm far from the first.

:censored:

If something like that is legal, I really don't see the point in the bullet button, but I'm sure that's another discussion. Carry on, men. Carry on.

jkonquer
05-23-2012, 8:19 PM
I bought this from riflegear.com http://www.riflegear.com/p-511-raddlock-tool-wlanyard.aspx

the lanyard is actually a thicker elastic band and very comfortable to wear around your wrist.

My question is, is it illegal to hang this lanyard on the weapon itself?

glock7
05-23-2012, 8:30 PM
At don29... I see what you did there...lol

Fate
05-23-2012, 10:08 PM
A wearable (instead of hand held) "tool" might not be 100% legal. OTOH, it might be fine. As of yet, it's unlitigated. Lots of people use them. That however, doesn't mean jack.

TruEdge
05-23-2012, 10:32 PM
I don't think I would want to be anywhere near one of those things. I went to a show in Turlock and some guy was there trying to sell those. My buddy and I sat back and watched this guy sitting there dropping mags and slapping them back in over and over again. Seems like a good way to get busted over something stupid IMHO.

SgtMerc
05-23-2012, 10:42 PM
I bought this from riflegear.com http://www.riflegear.com/p-511-raddlock-tool-wlanyard.aspx

the lanyard is actually a thicker elastic band and very comfortable to wear around your wrist.

My question is, is it illegal to hang this lanyard on the weapon itself?

It's extremely questionable. Once it has been attached to the weapon, it could be no longer a "tool" and possibly organic to the firearm instead. Likewise the tool that attaches to a sling. I'd stay far far away from that.

I do however think that clothing is NOT considered organic. I have seen plenty of rings that doubled as bottle openers, or gloves that have plastic bits for iPhone/touchscreen use. Those are tools in my book.

bohoki
05-23-2012, 10:43 PM
if you can find and old golf cleat they work nice

rimfire78
05-23-2012, 10:51 PM
So by now you may have heard that there is a bill in Sacramento put forth by Leland Yee to ban the bullet button.
He apparently caught wind of the magnet bullet button "tool" which allows a bullet button equipped AR to function like a regular detachable magazine rifle by way of this magnet that fits over the bullet button.
The manufacturers of this device have been doing their rounds at the gun shows, and those willing to push the envelope have landed all of us in a situation where we may lose the right to use the bullet button, and (subsequently) evil features at all.
What you're talking about here seems just about as close to the edge as the magnet "tool" is.
Like the open carry movement got UOC banned, and the long gun open carry crowd are about to do the same for rifles, I think your fingertip glove tool is also a reckless - bad idea, that could help stoke the opposition, and contribute to the current threat.

But hey, It's probably already too late anyway. Shoot 'em while ya got 'em.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=575051&highlight=bullet+button
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=574878&highlight=bullet+button
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=574730&highlight=bullet+button

Don29palms
05-23-2012, 11:04 PM
So by now you may have heard that there is a bill in Sacramento put forth by Leland Yee to ban the bullet button.
He apparently caught wind of the magnet bullet button "tool" which allows a bullet button equipped AR to function like a regular detachable magazine rifle by way of this magnet that fits over the bullet button.
The manufacturers of this device have been doing their rounds at the gun shows, and those willing to push the envelope have landed all of us in a situation where we may lose the right to use the bullet button, and (subsequently) evil features at all.
What you're talking about here seems just about as close to the edge as the magnet "tool" is.
Like the open carry movement got UOC banned, and the long gun open carry crowd are about to do the same for rifles, I think your fingertip glove tool is also a reckless - bad idea, that could help stoke the opposition, and contribute to the current threat.

But hey, It's probably already too late anyway. Shoot 'em while ya got 'em.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=575051&highlight=bullet+button
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=574878&highlight=bullet+button
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=574730&highlight=bullet+button

BS! A finger nail is considered a tool.

rimfire78
05-23-2012, 11:08 PM
BS! A finger nail is considered a tool.

So are reason, deduction and good judgment.
And if you can drop magazines with your fingernails, then you're in line for a felony, and aren't using a bullet button anyway.

Don29palms
05-23-2012, 11:12 PM
So are reason, deduction and good judgment.
And if you can drop your magazines with your fingernail, then you're not using a bullet button anyway.

WRONG! There was a case that I can't find where the judge determined that a woman using her fingernail to drop the magazine on a bullet buttoned AR did use a tool. HER FINGERNAIL!

rimfire78
05-23-2012, 11:18 PM
I'll take your word for it.
But It still seems to me, to be asking for trouble.

Don29palms
05-23-2012, 11:26 PM
I'll take your word for it.
But It still seems to me, to be asking for trouble.

I guess if I lived in LA and owned a gun I would be overly cautious of the Gestapo there too. I can't wait until I am able to escape from the USSK!

djleisure
05-23-2012, 11:39 PM
I don't think I would want to be anywhere near one of those things. I went to a show in Turlock and some guy was there trying to sell those. My buddy and I sat back and watched this guy sitting there dropping mags and slapping them back in over and over again. Seems like a good way to get busted over something stupid IMHO.
Anywhere near one of what things? A glove with a pokey bit in the finger? A bullet button? An AR in general? Can you specify please?

ar-bullet button glove
05-24-2012, 7:35 AM
Hey guys. Not too familiar with the laws regarding bullet buttons, but I have seen many ads and posts regarding tools used to operate the bullet button.

Would it be legal to have a glove with a built-in, "bullet tip?" Just a small point on the index finger or something to operate the bullet button. To my understanding, you have to use a tool, so would a bullet tipped glove be considered a tool, or an article of clothing?

hellow .for those people who want to know if the gloves with a tool are legal look up the law first and by definition the gloves i make are with in the law but they have not been appoved or disopoved by the DOJ.before people write on here they should do some reseach on the laws before they give advice to people.the DOJ has not disoproved or appoved any tools on the market.the only tool appoved is a bullet so far.thanks for your time.

ar-bullet button glove
05-24-2012, 7:45 AM
So by now you may have heard that there is a bill in Sacramento put forth by Leland Yee to ban the bullet button.
He apparently caught wind of the magnet bullet button "tool" which allows a bullet button equipped AR to function like a regular detachable magazine rifle by way of this magnet that fits over the bullet button.
The manufacturers of this device have been doing their rounds at the gun shows, and those willing to push the envelope have landed all of us in a situation where we may lose the right to use the bullet button, and (subsequently) evil features at all.
What you're talking about here seems just about as close to the edge as the magnet "tool" is.
Like the open carry movement got UOC banned, and the long gun open carry crowd are about to do the same for rifles, I think your fingertip glove tool is also a reckless - bad idea, that could help stoke the opposition, and contribute to the current threat.

But hey, It's probably already too late anyway. Shoot 'em while ya got 'em.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=575051&highlight=bullet+button
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=574878&highlight=bullet+button
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=574730&highlight=bullet+button

there is a big difference from the magnets and my gloves.my gloves are not attached to the bullet button or the rifle .the glove has a removable tool on it.

peter95
05-24-2012, 7:54 AM
shouldn't be a problem, as long as the BB tool is not attached to the rifle in any way...

rimfire78
05-24-2012, 8:09 AM
there is a big difference from the magnets and my gloves.my gloves are not attached to the bullet button or the rifle .the glove has a removable tool on it.

Agreed, but "their" argument is that a fixed magazine is harder to reload and therefore safer.
It is now on their radar because people have found ways to get around the "spirit" of the law. Dropping mags as quickly as you ever could defeats the laws intent. In that regard, your tool and the other are just as much of a provocation to the authorities.
I don't agree with them. But If you keep hitting the nest with a stick, eventually the bees are going to swarm.

TruEdge
05-24-2012, 9:01 AM
Anywhere near one of what things? A glove with a pokey bit in the finger? A bullet button? An AR in general? Can you specify please?

Anywhere near one of these gloves. Like rimfire said its things like this glove that put bullet button owners on their radar because people are getting around the law by using these things. You are just giving the law an excuse to come down on us and put more bs laws into effect. Now because everyone wants to get around the law bullet button owners now are in jeopardy. No offense to you bullet button glove since i believe this is more about the magnet but IMHO you are causing more bad than good for us and that is why I didn't buy anything from you and I won't.

ar-bullet button glove
05-24-2012, 9:14 AM
Agreed, but "their" argument is that a fixed magazine is harder to reload and therefore safer.
It is now on their radar because people have found ways to get around the "spirit" of the law. Dropping mags as quickly as you ever could defeats the laws intent. In that regard, your tool and the other are just as much of a provocation to the authorities.
I don't agree with them. But If you keep hitting the nest with a stick, eventually the bees are going to swarm.

i agree with you.This whole thing with having to have a bullet button is lame in the first place.We should not even have to have this on there every state in the USA has a ragular magizine release. by having a bullet button on ca,rifles (AR-15) if you wanted to use this rifle for home deffence you would have no chance.whitch last time i checked you still have the right to protect your family against a threat in your home.if a person is going to commit a crime most of them do it with a hand gun and they do not have bullet buttons on those and they are a lot easyer to conseal than a rifle.I would like to see a report of anyone who has been shot with an AR-15 with a bullet button in the state of ca'i've never herd of one .these are not bees there killer bees and some times all you have to do is walk by them and they attack.lollollol .let's stick together and maybe we will have the rights our forfathers wanted us to have.2amed.thank you for your thoughts.

artoaster
05-24-2012, 9:31 AM
5469 (a) "detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool.


By literal interpretation of the above wording in the code, the photo here depicts a proper "tool".


http://i1079.photobucket.com/albums/w515/artoaster/BulletKeyChain.jpg



And from that naturally there is the bullet button to lock feeding device. Simple?

bohoki
05-24-2012, 9:59 AM
ive had a thought experiment about the bullet being a tool and have wondered why mag magnet havent put a neo-magnet in a bullet jacket the law clearly says it is a tool

Farrier-1
05-24-2012, 10:09 AM
Just one more nail in the coffin to help send our AR's off to BANnation.

Fate
05-24-2012, 10:36 AM
before people write on here they should do some reseach on the laws before they give advice to people.the DOJ has not disoproved or appoved any tools on the market.
Might want to heed your own advice.
for those people who want to know if the gloves with a tool are legal look up the law first and by definition the gloves i make are with in the law but they have not been appoved or disopoved by the DOJ.
You can't honestly prove that. It's unlitigated, and CADOJ has no written opinion on the status of these. As you mentioned, the only tool listed is a bullet. Therefore it's a big unknown if a non hand-held or wearable device is a tool or a prosthetic digit. They might be legal. They might not.

You sell these things for profit, of course you want them to be 100% justifiably legal. But the Penal Code is vague enough for interpretation and it's not beyond the realm of possibilities that someone, somewhere will be popped for using one of these and then we'll all get to know the truth after the court case.

Unless you're willing to cover people's legal fees, consumers should be careful about trusting your claims of legality especially without rock solid definitions in the PC, rulemaking documents or case law.

Quickdraw559
05-24-2012, 10:44 AM
Wow, this became a pretty long discussion. I wasn't expecting this to be such an issue, already.

I definitely see where both sides are coming from, though. Some want to keep their AR's and whatnot, no matter what tool needs to be used, and you guys have every right to be upset about someone playing the, "I'm not touching you!" game with the LEO's and lawmakers. But, at the same time, if you aren't breaking the law, you shouldn't be in harms way, and definitely shouldn't be afraid to exercise your rights.

As far as the magnetic button or whatever it's called, I did some reading on the law and I checked out the magnet thing, and in my personal opinion, it absolutely breaks the law. It is no longer a tool once it becomes attached to the firearm; it becomes part of it. This seems kinda stupid, though. A jack is a tool as long as it isn't in your car, but once you put it in your car, it becomes part of the car? Eh, either way, I think that idea is kinda crazy.

But, if you consider the function of a glove, it is CLEARLY a tool. A glove has multiple uses; it could be to absorb the sweat from your hands, to help grip the firearm, or even, "protection," for your skin from abrasion (for those with baby skin, haha). I don't see how adding another tool to that tool will be a problem with the current interpretation of the law, but I DEFINITELY see how quickly they can write up another subsection dealing with tools on ones person.

Imagine if they created a law that says you can't have any tool attached to you OR the firearm. Not even a lanyard with a tool to operate the button.

tonyxcom
05-24-2012, 10:52 AM
i agree with you.This whole thing with having to have a bullet button is lame in the first place.We should not even have to have this on there every state in the USA has a ragular magizine release. by having a bullet button on ca,rifles (AR-15) if you wanted to use this rifle for home deffence you would have no chance.whitch last time i checked you still have the right to protect your family against a threat in your home.if a person is going to commit a crime most of them do it with a hand gun and they do not have bullet buttons on those and they are a lot easyer to conseal than a rifle.I would like to see a report of anyone who has been shot with an AR-15 with a bullet button in the state of ca'i've never herd of one .these are not bees there killer bees and some times all you have to do is walk by them and they attack.lollollol .let's stick together and maybe we will have the rights our forfathers wanted us to have.2amed.thank you for your thoughts.

Whut says you?

tonyxcom
05-24-2012, 10:55 AM
The irony of all this bullet button nonsense is that 90% of AR shooters shoot from a bench, slow fire.

If you guys want to practice Chris Costa reloads than shoot 22LR.

djleisure
05-24-2012, 11:01 AM
Anywhere near one of these gloves. Like rimfire said its things like this glove that put bullet button owners on their radar because people are getting around the law by using these things. You are just giving the law an excuse to come down on us and put more bs laws into effect. Now because everyone wants to get around the law bullet button owners now are in jeopardy. No offense to you bullet button glove since i believe this is more about the magnet but IMHO you are causing more bad than good for us and that is why I didn't buy anything from you and I won't.
Well, that works out, since I'm not selling anything. I made my own glove a LONG time ago and was sharing that with the OP. No big deal either way, thanks for clearing up what you meant, I was just curious.

So, by your logic, everyone should just keep top-loading their AR's with permanently fixed mags?

djleisure
05-24-2012, 11:03 AM
The irony of all this bullet button nonsense is that 90% of AR shooters shoot from a bench, slow fire. I don't.

If you guys want to practice Chris Costa reloads than shoot 22LR. I do!
The middle of the desert is a fun place with nary a bench in sight.

Farrier-1
05-24-2012, 11:06 AM
The irony of all this bullet button nonsense is that 90% of AR shooters shoot from a bench, slow fire.

If you guys want to practice Chris Costa reloads than shoot 22LR.

:thumbsup:

tonyxcom
05-24-2012, 11:23 AM
The middle of the desert is a fun place with nary a bench in sight.

Been there many times myself Mr. 10%.

Metal Magic
05-24-2012, 11:24 AM
Wouldn't use one, common sense would dictate that a tool attached to your body is no longer a tool but an extension of the body. Although a grey area prob wouldn't want to be the first prosecuted by a over zealous DA.

djleisure
05-24-2012, 11:34 AM
Wouldn't use one, common sense would dictate that a tool attached to your body is no longer a tool but an extension of the body. Although a grey area prob wouldn't want to be the first prosecuted by a over zealous DA.
You're entitled to your opinion, but I wouldn't go throwing around your "common sense" logic. How is a GPik retained in a glove any different that a bullet dummy round hanging around your neck on a lanyard?

Don29palms
05-24-2012, 11:36 AM
Wouldn't use one, common sense would dictate that a tool attached to your body is no longer a tool but an extension of the body. Although a grey area prob wouldn't want to be the first prosecuted by a over zealous DA.

So by your own statement common sense would dictate that as soon as you put something in your hand it becomes part of your body.

TruEdge
05-24-2012, 12:08 PM
Well, that works out, since I'm not selling anything. I made my own glove a LONG time ago and was sharing that with the OP. No big deal either way, thanks for clearing up what you meant, I was just curious.

So, by your logic, everyone should just keep top-loading their AR's with permanently fixed mags?

I was talking about ar bullet button gloves post who is selling them not you. As far as my logic goes I believe in doing things how they should be done. If I need to top load I'll top load. My shooting is done strictly on my private property and I have no need to change mags in an instant my paper targets don't attack. I just don't believe in these things that bring more attention to the issue than there already is.

nothing4u
05-24-2012, 12:51 PM
The legality of this bullet button glove can be easily be solved by someone droping mags with this tool in front of every county DA's office in this state and ask them if they are willing to prosecute. How about the guy making a buck off them if he's gonna claim their legal.

ar-bullet button glove
05-24-2012, 1:19 PM
The legality of this bullet button glove can be easily be solved by someone droping mags with this tool in front of every county DA's office in this state and ask them if they are willing to prosecute. How about the guy making a buck off them if he's gonna claim their legal.
well i don't make a ton off money off these and as for droping mags infront of the DA i've droped mags infront of doj ,leo's,you name it.so i will say this some people will always place blame and also talk out of there a** about what they think they know.bla bla bla

ar-bullet button glove
05-24-2012, 1:24 PM
learn to read and maybe.you would not have wrote what you did

artoaster
05-24-2012, 1:29 PM
Here's some more grist for the mill:

Obviously the Mag Magnet violates the principle of the law as in, why don't I just make a tiny tool then weld it, glue it, screw it on, or stick it on with a magnet thereby making it work the same way as ordinary mag release but just a bit bigger?

Or, what if I design a tool for my personal use that is something that must be utilized separately in order to detach magazine from a bullet button locked magazine well?

Now, in the truest sense, this firearm cannot be handed to another user and be capable of readily detachable magazines if that person does not possess another tool of any kind.

The firearm, by itself, retains a locked magazine and remains as such always in the absence of a tool device.

This brings up an idea about having a tool, in the literal sense as it relates to the law such as a bullet or cartridge, hanging from perhaps the sling of the firearm and whether that's legal.

Since it truly qualifies as a tool and the law makes no mention as to where tool can be in relation to the overall firearm I would have to opine that a bullet or cartridge attached to a firearm as a tool is acceptable.

YMMV.

taperxz
05-24-2012, 2:23 PM
OMG who are these people?

A bullet was determined to be "A" tool. Not the only tool. A mag magnet is designed to defeat the purpose of using a tool by adapting itself through magnetic energy thus defeating the need for a tool.

There are many different tools that can be used and no one has limited what tool can be used. A pen, awl, stick, bullet, screwdriver, ect. It can also be slung from the rifle as long as its not integrated into the performance of the rifle. Like a mag magnet.

p1choco
05-24-2012, 2:33 PM
Here is a big what if. What if I make my own glove with an actual bullet attched to the glove. Would that be legit?

djleisure
05-24-2012, 2:40 PM
Here is a big what if. What if I make my own glove with an actual bullet attched to the glove. Would that be legit?
Yes. Million dollar idea! JK
Read taperzx post right above yours. ;)

tonyxcom
05-24-2012, 3:16 PM
learn to read and maybe.you would not have wrote what you did

That's a pretty ironic statement from you. Maybe if you learned to write people could understand what you are saying.

juss.say'in.

p1choco
05-24-2012, 3:19 PM
Yes. Million dollar idea! JK
Read taperzx post right above yours. ;)

HAHA! Was just being dumb since it is a "bullet button" and I would be using a bullet..........for the button.....I'll be here all night folks.

wguy00
05-24-2012, 3:22 PM
Wouldn't use one, common sense would dictate that a tool attached to your body is no longer a tool but an extension of the body. Although a grey area prob wouldn't want to be the first prosecuted by a over zealous DA.

So clipping one of these...
http://www.riflegear.com/images/Product/medium/192.jpg
to your shirt would no longer make it a tool, but an extension to your body?

In that same train of thought...

http://i1079.photobucket.com/albums/w515/artoaster/BulletKeyChain.jpg
Would taking something like ARToaster posted, but with only the bullet and keyring, and wearing the keyring around your finger like a normal ring, no longer makes it a tool?

tonyxcom
05-24-2012, 3:51 PM
UBBT.

If you are in such a hurry to change a magazine that you need to tether a tool to yourself, then just put UBBT's on your magazines.

After all, after you grab the tool to drop the empty mag you are still going to have to grab the new mag. Why not just grab the new mag and use it to drop the empty one?

IMO, everything else is just so silly to argue about. None of these devices, including the damn bullet buttons themselves are CA DOJ approved, so arguing the hypotheticals of silly lanyards and necklaces and where they are attached is just a useless mind fkuc.

If the SHTF it all goes out the window anyway. (and I will give all my Raddlocks 3 turns counter clockwise while the rest of you put on necklaces or gloves with golf cleats, rivets or bite your fingernails into the shape of a bullet) :)

taperxz
05-24-2012, 3:56 PM
UBBT.

If you are in such a hurry to change a magazine that you need to tether a tool to yourself, then just put UBBT's on your magazines.

After all, after you grab the tool to drop the empty mag you are still going to have to grab the new mag. Why not just grab the new mag and use it to drop the empty one?

IMO, everything else is just so silly to argue about. None of these devices, including the damn bullet buttons themselves are CA DOJ approved, so arguing the hypotheticals of silly lanyards and necklaces and where they are attached is just a useless mind fkuc.

If the SHTF it all goes out the window anyway. (and I will give all my Raddlocks 3 turns counter clockwise while the rest of you put on necklaces or gloves with golf cleats, rivets or bite your fingernails into the shape of a bullet) :)

They don't need to be approved. It effectively turns the firearm into a fixed magazine thus making it not part of the AWB.

Since there is case law saying that a bullet IS a tool for use on a bullet button... Its basically approved via case law.

tonyxcom
05-24-2012, 4:01 PM
I get what you are saying as that much is obvious, but that isn't the point I was trying to hammer home.

Quickdraw559
05-24-2012, 5:41 PM
OMG who are these people?

A bullet was determined to be "A" tool. Not the only tool. A mag magnet is designed to defeat the purpose of using a tool by adapting itself through magnetic energy thus defeating the need for a tool.

There are many different tools that can be used and no one has limited what tool can be used. A pen, awl, stick, bullet, screwdriver, ect. It can also be slung from the rifle as long as its not integrated into the performance of the rifle. Like a mag magnet.

Yea, but that's the real question. Is it not becoming one with the rifle due to the magnetic attraction? Would the magnetic attraction be considered a tool to attach it to the weapon? How would something magnetically attached be different than something attached by a bolt or screw? Does the law consider, "attached," as, "anything attached," or just something PERMANENTLY attached?

shadowofnight
05-24-2012, 8:25 PM
I'm so glad 80% of my AR's are already setup featureless ( The only reason some are still bullet buttoned is I bought so many UBBT's and Magblocks , guess I could sell those and go 100% featureless )


While on this subject, could somebody with a youtube account leave this guy a comment to remove his video. He bought his lower in Stockton and lives in San Francisco, magmagnet installed for video.

Even has a " Opps, get that off of there " at 3:59 minutes

I am more interested in his 1/8" 10 round groups at 100 yards with 10-15 mph crosswinds and an open sighted 20" A2 DPMS upper ( Says its super easy with his 20", but would have to be a marksman to do it with a 16" barrel. ) . :p







kOAmoYoEHRk

Fate
05-24-2012, 9:53 PM
some people will always place blame and also talk out of there a** about what they think they know.bla bla bla

Are you lumping me in that group? I'm inclined to believe you are.

Metal Magic
05-24-2012, 9:59 PM
So by your own statement common sense would dictate that as soon as you put something in your hand it becomes part of your body.


LOL common sense would dictate sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts


Did you not catch the word attached? because picking up a tool in the hand and having a tool attached to the hand are very different in my opinion.

The role of the bullet button is to limit a weapons firepower through reloading speed and dropping mags at the push of a button seems to defeat that role.

I wouldn't use one, I wouldn't buy one . . . . I certainly won't recommend them.

DinoPJR
05-24-2012, 11:34 PM
I was talking about ar bullet button gloves post who is selling them not you. As far as my logic goes I believe in doing things how they should be done. If I need to top load I'll top load. My shooting is done strictly on my private property and I have no need to change mags in an instant my paper targets don't attack. I just don't believe in these things that bring more attention to the issue than there already is.

This Dude sounds like a Libby!

DinoPJR
05-24-2012, 11:39 PM
Personally if you are at a range. Just have an extra round on the table to release your mag. It cost 20 cents. Just get a shotgun for your home defense. Thats it. It is what it is. The gloves and magnets are for people who wanna push the law and feel bad***.

artoaster
05-25-2012, 9:10 AM
Gloves and magnets are not in the same category, IMHO.

Agree that most AR usage by shooters is at a range on a table and for that a hand held ammunition cartridge or any other tool suffices.

For field shooting a tool (cartridge or tool) either secured by lanyard to wrist, belt loop or even rifle sling should be a reasonable solution.

And for carbine class work or for any kind of tactical weapon skill practice the UBBT is the only workable device I see as adaptable.

I can defend the UBBT based on the idea that the UBBT turns a 10 round magazine into an effective tool for detaching magazines from the locked mag release and that one cannot manipulate said release with the single UBBT equipped magazine in place but rather it requires a completely separate UBBT magazine to perform the action of unlocking.