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Mac7504
05-23-2012, 1:31 PM
Iím doing a bit of research for my little brother; he wants an AR style rifle but in .308 (ar10?) but doesnít want to build one and for some reason and is only looking at really expensive stuff.

This is his first rifle and seems to want to go all out instead of getting something cheaper and working his way up.
I told him if heís is really looking for this type of setup to look into the LMT .308 MWS iirc, but he is convinced it is more than the G.A.

Iíve tried to get him to look into a Remington 700, or anything else, but he doesnít want a ďhunter looking rifleĒ or bolt action; he wants quad rails and all that jazz. Iím against it, especially considering we havenít shot past 300 yards, yet, so he is wasting money on the .308. This is also the kid who wants Savage .338 lapua. sigh...lol
Iíve tried, to no avail, to get him to think about what he is using it for and what we currently do, no dice. So rather than argue with him, Iím trying to get some info so he doesnít end up with some over-priced heap.

Anyway, heís looked into a G.A. Precision GAP-10 but Iíve never heard of it and donít even know if itís available in So.Cal.


Anyone?

Thanks for the help.

BucDan
05-23-2012, 1:39 PM
I was like this also, I was dreaming big of jumping on a McMillan .338 LM in a A5 stock when I was 18 lol. It's the "cool guy" ego that says "I have the big and fun and expensive guns". Don't worry, I was looking at the GAP-10 also when I was younger, then I realized that I didn't want it anymore as I grew out of it.

But this was when I was into long range shooting but never happened, for which the longest range here in SD is 300 yards. Just to think that I was ok with shooting $1 rounds down the barrel of a GAP-10, not to speak of shooting $5 down the barrel of a .338 LM also lol.

It's just the mindset of bigger round is cooler and will get the attention, but once he realizes how much it's going to cost him to feed it match grade ammo, he'll reconsider.

The GAP-10 is available for purchase as the guys at GA Precision will custom build it with like a 6 month lead time then ship it over here.

In the end, it's a mistake for someone that has never gotten into guns or owned one himself. Once he sees how much it costs to maintain and feed it, he'll regret it.

It's the "I want to be a sniper" mentality of a youngster. How old is he?

Mac7504
05-23-2012, 1:56 PM
I was like this also, I was dreaming big of jumping on a McMillan .338 LM in a A5 stock when I was 18 lol. It's the "cool guy" ego that says "I have the big and fun and expensive guns". Don't worry, I was looking at the GAP-10 also when I was younger, then I realized that I didn't want it anymore as I grew out of it.

But this was when I was into long range shooting but never happened, for which the longest range here in SD is 300 yards. Just to think that I was ok with shooting $1 rounds down the barrel of a GAP-10, not to speak of shooting $5 down the barrel of a .338 LM also lol.

It's just the mindset of bigger round is cooler and will get the attention, but once he realizes how much it's going to cost him to feed it match grade ammo, he'll reconsider.

The GAP-10 is available for purchase as the guys at GA Precision will custom build it with like a 6 month lead time then ship it over here.

In the end, it's a mistake for someone that has never gotten into guns or owned one himself. Once he sees how much it costs to maintain and feed it, he'll regret it.

It's the "I want to be a sniper" mentality of a youngster. How old is he?

All of that...I just don't get it. He has a 9mm pistol, but that is it. Anytime we shoot, we are pretty much together so he has some experience with my DD M4 and a few others, but nothing up in the higher end. He wants to start hitting BLM spots, but doesn't realize how much work it really is.

I keep telling him that ammo is going to cost soo much be he doesn't even hear me, "well, it's not soo bad" he tells me....lol. geesh.
I know it to be a big mistake but there is no talking to the boy; he's 24. Not so young, but not so grown either..haha, I don't know what to do with the boy.


I wanted him to at least looking into A DD 6.8 or 300 blackout if he was hung up on round size, but nope.

So is G.A. a reputable company? They gurantee 3/4 accuracy so he tells me.

DirtRacer151
05-23-2012, 2:02 PM
GAP builds awesome stuff.

When I fry a barrel in my LMT MWS I'm going to have George make one for it.
The factory LMT 308s are shooting 3/4" groups all day long. I shot a 1/2" group with mine last week but those don't happen all the time.

Mac7504
05-23-2012, 2:08 PM
GAP builds awesome stuff.

When I fry a barrel in my LMT MWS I'm going to have George make one for it.
The factory LMT 308s are shooting 3/4" groups all day long. I shot a 1/2" group with mine last week but those don't happen all the time.

Thanks for the response, at least that is good to know.

Are the prices around the same area? LMT compared to GAP?

BucDan
05-23-2012, 2:15 PM
Thanks for the response, at least that is good to know.

Are the prices around the same area? LMT compared to GAP?

The GAP retails for $2600 before optics and upgrades lol.

Check out their website. G.A. Precision.

Hamstur
05-23-2012, 2:15 PM
GAP makes amazing rifles -- they're among the most popular custom rifles on the market. I'd buy a GAP-10 or GAP built AR-10 if I was in the market for one.

Wait for a used on, grab it, and if he decides it's not for him, it will re-sell very fast and he will not lose money on it minus shipping. Just tell him not to be retarded and beat it up or Krylon it.

Does he also know past 300 yards is where match quality ammo is a must? Expect at least $1 per round. He will be very sore if he thinks he can shoot junky milsurp through it and expect accuracy...

Mac7504
05-23-2012, 2:25 PM
The GAP retails for $2600 before optics and upgrades lol.

Check out their website. G.A. Precision.

Bro, just sent me a link; checking it now.

GAP makes amazing rifles -- they're among the most popular custom rifles on the market. I'd buy a GAP-10 or GAP built AR-10 if I was in the market for one.

Wait for a used on, grab it, and if he decides it's not for him, it will re-sell very fast and he will not lose money on it minus shipping. Just tell him not to be retarded and beat it up or Krylon it.

Does he also know past 300 yards is where match quality ammo is a must? Expect at least $1 per round. He will be very sore if he thinks he can shoot junky milsurp through it and expect accuracy...

Sounds like a good rifle, just not for him, at this time. He needs to get his feet wet first; he doesn't even know how to break down an ar.

If they are custom made, it sounds like used would be hard to come by, no?

I'm going to be honest, I was not even aware of this (haven't shot passed 300yards, yet). I'm going to point him to this thread so he can read for his own and make the decision. Sometimes hearing it from your bro just doesn't work...I guess. lol.

I told him about the 6 month lead time and he wasn't very happy about that...lol I told him to call and check for himself. Well shall see gents. I really just want him to get an M4 or something for now, but it's ultimatley his decision.

BucDan
05-23-2012, 2:39 PM
It's a great rifle no doubt, but it is a big purchase. Now if you don't know how to break down an AR... hmm.

They are custom made in the sense that GAP builds the rifle themselves, but GAP has a big name in the precision shooting world so it will be easy to resell as long as the rifle is maintained well.

Well it's the MAN ego, teaching a man how to do something or explain something to him is ignored as he will always believe that he is right and knows enough to get through.

For example, I was trying to teach my older brother how to use an AK, he was hard headed and didn't want me to teach him how to use it, so I just said "have at it" and handed him a mag. Yeah, he needed my help after a minute of being gentle with the gun.
Same applies when in a relationship, the boyfriend tries to teach the girlfriend, but she doesn't listen as she believes the boyfriend is yelling at her lol ( an instance for which my brother's girlfriend would get mad at him, so he had me teach her since it would be more formal and I was the instructor on using a Glock 17).

When I said the 6 month wait, it could even be longer or shorter. I remember in 2009, the wait was like 1 year to get the rifle lol. Rediculous. I don't know how high the demand is right now with GAP for their GAP-10 rifles but expect a wait time for sure.

By no means am I saying no to the purchase, but after seeing how inexperienced he is with firearms in the sense that he doesn't own an AR platform, it wouldn't be the wisest(?) purchase for him.

Think about it, $2600 rifle + $1500 optic (you can get by with one that is about $600, but I'd like to pay for clarity when looking far down range) + $1/round (match grade, hopefully he doesn't shoot milsurp through it) + accessories.

By the way, I was expecting him to be my age at 20 years lol.

Or he can try the AR-15 DMR/SPR build that can be had for about $2600 after the optic possibly. The cost of the round can be had for similar price or slightly less, and he can get out to 800 yards nicely, but the holes won't be as big and the boom not as big.

Mac7504
05-23-2012, 3:59 PM
It's a great rifle no doubt, but it is a big purchase. Now if you don't know how to break down an AR... hmm.

They are custom made in the sense that GAP builds the rifle themselves, but GAP has a big name in the precision shooting world so it will be easy to resell as long as the rifle is maintained well.

Well it's the MAN ego, teaching a man how to do something or explain something to him is ignored as he will always believe that he is right and knows enough to get through.

For example, I was trying to teach my older brother how to use an AK, he was hard headed and didn't want me to teach him how to use it, so I just said "have at it" and handed him a mag. Yeah, he needed my help after a minute of being gentle with the gun.
Same applies when in a relationship, the boyfriend tries to teach the girlfriend, but she doesn't listen as she believes the boyfriend is yelling at her lol ( an instance for which my brother's girlfriend would get mad at him, so he had me teach her since it would be more formal and I was the instructor on using a Glock 17).

When I said the 6 month wait, it could even be longer or shorter. I remember in 2009, the wait was like 1 year to get the rifle lol. Rediculous. I don't know how high the demand is right now with GAP for their GAP-10 rifles but expect a wait time for sure.

By no means am I saying no to the purchase, but after seeing how inexperienced he is with firearms in the sense that he doesn't own an AR platform, it wouldn't be the wisest(?) purchase for him.

Think about it, $2600 rifle + $1500 optic (you can get by with one that is about $600, but I'd like to pay for clarity when looking far down range) + $1/round (match grade, hopefully he doesn't shoot milsurp through it) + accessories.

By the way, I was expecting him to be my age at 20 years lol.

Or he can try the AR-15 DMR/SPR build that can be had for about $2600 after the optic possibly. The cost of the round can be had for similar price or slightly less, and he can get out to 800 yards nicely, but the holes won't be as big and the boom not as big.

He doesn't, I tried to show him when I first got my M4, but he didn't seem interested - so I let it be.

I understand, I wasn't saying you said "not to get it", I'm simply trying to talk him out of it...haha
Now that I know it's a quality rifle, I do not feel so stronly about pestering him to get a different one. I know he is not ready for it, and may kick himself later but I just may have to let him do that. He doesn't even want to look into an ar-15, he wants something that will reach further out; he doesn't even know what further out is..haha.

Yeah, I don't think we mature at a rapid rate in our family...lol. I was sort of like him (All out) when I was younger (still sort of am), but have since learned it's not always the best way. Car, motorcycles, arms, I can't very well go all out on all them, I mean, I could but would be broke very fast...lol.

I'm interested to see what turn around time is now, just curious. Even tried talking him into a Scar of something else, that was "cool looking" but he wants he "sniper" rifle...laugh, ohhh brother...

HKJay
05-23-2012, 4:15 PM
The GAP-10's are sold fairly often on snipershide.com.

Best bet is to call and find out how long the current turnaround time is.

BucDan
05-23-2012, 4:16 PM
Lol good luck!

Mac7504
05-23-2012, 4:22 PM
The GAP-10's are sold fairly often on snipershide.com.

Best bet is to call and find out how long the current turnaround time is.

Thanks, I'll tell him to start looking there; the rest of the leg work is his.

Lol good luck!

Thanks, I'll need it. Trying NOT to get into a big fuss with him over it. I know, he wants what he wants, but it's just seems like a waste as he's not a long range shooter just yet.

Will keep you guys posted.

Hamstur
05-23-2012, 6:20 PM
On the flip side, he may have no experience but you sometimes don't get that 'feel' unless you do get the chance to flavor the goods.

A co-worker of mine didn't really care for or understand the whole precision/long range thing -- he was born and raised a hunter. I met up with him at the range a few times cause I was load testing and developing. He was playing around with his trusty Model 70 in 30-06 and thought my gear was over-priced fancy stuff. I threw him behind a GAP custom bolt action and it was over -- now he owns a custom heavy-barrel 30-06 in McMillan A3 stock and a Nightforce. Hung out with him a few times during his load development, then dragged him out to plink steel up to 800 yards away. Now he has no desire to ever go to the firing range. After a few more practice weekends, I'm gonna see if he wants to try out a LR practical match we go to monthly. To this day, he says even though he's been shooting his whole life, if he didn't shoot that damn Crusader, he would never have realized how much fun it is.

My own entry into precision/long range wasn't very different. I never had interest in or cared for bolt action rifles. I loved semi-autos. I loved carbines. I loved my M1A. I wanted to try out a bolt action and batted the idea of getting a basic Remington 700 to get a flavor for it. On a WTF whim, I bought a Sako TRG and USO. WHAM -- who ever thought I would love it that much if I didn't decide to try? Today, I own 1 semi-auto but 7 high-end bolt actions. Same as my buddy, I know I wouldn't have gotten hooked if I was playing around with some cheapo Rem 700.

If he has the disposable income to try it out, I'd say give him support and find a way to join him when he wants to hit BLM land.

Fact -- with used high-end firearms and optics, you have very little risk of losing money when you want to get out of it. Just shop smart & be patient both when you're buying and selling.

Tackman11
05-23-2012, 8:39 PM
I had a chance to got behind GAP gas gun and it was a shooter. If he want to get into long range I would recommend him to get a bolt gun and work his away up and try to learn to reload.

rksimple
05-23-2012, 8:42 PM
I have a handful of GAP bolt guns. My next new build is a GAP 10 in a 6mm flavor. Its the only precision semi I would trust to actually shoot a match with.

Mac7504
05-23-2012, 9:09 PM
On the flip side, he may have no experience but you sometimes don't get that 'feel' unless you do get the chance to flavor the goods.

A co-worker of mine didn't really care for or understand the whole precision/long range thing -- he was born and raised a hunter. I met up with him at the range a few times cause I was load testing and developing. He was playing around with his trusty Model 70 in 30-06 and thought my gear was over-priced fancy stuff. I threw him behind a GAP custom bolt action and it was over -- now he owns a custom heavy-barrel 30-06 in McMillan A3 stock and a Nightforce. Hung out with him a few times during his load development, then dragged him out to plink steel up to 800 yards away. Now he has no desire to ever go to the firing range. After a few more practice weekends, I'm gonna see if he wants to try out a LR practical match we go to monthly. To this day, he says even though he's been shooting his whole life, if he didn't shoot that damn Crusader, he would never have realized how much fun it is.

My own entry into precision/long range wasn't very different. I never had interest in or cared for bolt action rifles. I loved semi-autos. I loved carbines. I loved my M1A. I wanted to try out a bolt action and batted the idea of getting a basic Remington 700 to get a flavor for it. On a WTF whim, I bought a Sako TRG and USO. WHAM -- who ever thought I would love it that much if I didn't decide to try? Today, I own 1 semi-auto but 7 high-end bolt actions. Same as my buddy, I know I wouldn't have gotten hooked if I was playing around with some cheapo Rem 700.

If he has the disposable income to try it out, I'd say give him support and find a way to join him when he wants to hit BLM land.
Fact -- with used high-end firearms and optics, you have very little risk of losing money when you want to get out of it. Just shop smart & be patient both when you're buying and selling.

I agree with your sentiment after thinking about it a bit; I just wanted him to start right. To me, that 'right', would be to get familiar with a less expensive unit. As I posted above, he doesn't even understand the internals of an AR, but that's no biggie as he just corrected me by stating, "I can learn, right"...lol smartass...:43::p Like many folks, I started with a .22, and started to work my way up, however, as you stated, that doesn't interest everyone.

He just started a his first full time job (EMT) so he has more money coming in that he every had, so I guess he has the extra income (why not buy all the goods now when you have little responsibility, right?)

As far as BLM land, I will def be right next to him on that. We usually go shooting together, so I know whatever he gets, I will get to play with as well.. :D
He may very well convert me to a long range shooter...lol Well, sooner than I expected...


I had a chance to got behind GAP gas gun and it was a shooter. If he want to get into long range I would recommend him to get a bolt gun and work his away up and try to learn to reload.

That's jus the thing, he wants nothing to do with bolt guns at time. He did mention he wants a Savage in 338. (bolt) but I don't think he thought about ammo price yet.

I have a handful of GAP bolt guns. My next new build is a GAP 10 in a 6mm flavor. Its the only precision semi I would trust to actually shoot a match with.

Very good to know.

Saym14
05-23-2012, 9:19 PM
GAP makes top notch stuff. If I was getting a AR-10 it would definitley be the GAP-10

motorwerks
05-23-2012, 9:21 PM
His money would be much better spent on something a little cheaper. GAP-10's are amazing rifles but that will only take you so far with out any sort of training, and a huge budget to feed it. I built my TM-10 with the best stuff I could find and got in under $1300.00 before optic. Its treated me well its no GAP-10 but it's WAY more accurate than I am.

FMJBT
05-23-2012, 11:37 PM
LaRue 7.62 OBR would be worth looking into as well:

http://www.laruetactical.com/obr-762

Mac7504
05-24-2012, 4:29 PM
His money would be much better spent on something a little cheaper. GAP-10's are amazing rifles but that will only take you so far with out any sort of training, and a huge budget to feed it. I built my TM-10 with the best stuff I could find and got in under $1300.00 before optic. Its treated me well its no GAP-10 but it's WAY more accurate than I am.

I think it would as well. I showed him a few posts from yesterday and he seems to really be thinking about the entire situation. He is mostly worried about wait time, he is not willing to wait.

LaRue 7.62 OBR would be worth looking into as well:

http://www.laruetactical.com/obr-762

Trying to get him into something cheaper not more expensive.

HK Dave
05-24-2012, 4:31 PM
For a precision gas 308 gun... the only other names that can play at the level of GAP are Larue, Noveske, JP and a very small handful of other names.

Your brother chose just about the best 308 AR made today.

Mac7504
05-25-2012, 12:57 PM
So my brother started to do some leg-work and called GAP; it's currently a 4 month wait and some extra cash to install BB, and cut down a pmag for it to work correctly in 10 round config. They had some issues in the past with cycling reliability for any mag less than 20.

To install bb ($35) to modify mag ($85), YIKES!!!! It appears they simply use a regular magpul mags but in 20, can't he just put a magblock in there in a 20 unit to limit it to 10?

problemchild
05-25-2012, 1:10 PM
I have an MWS. Its the cats meow as far as how it shoots. I can stay around 1/2 inch if I use good ammo and do my part. One thing that some forget is the cost of feeding 308 is double that of a 223. Consider that price jump if you go shooting every weekend.

The MWS is a fine weapon if you choose to go that brand.

http://www.michaelkdickson.com/webjunk/LMT/Nightforce/NF-LMT%20001a.jpg

http://www.michaelkdickson.com/webjunk/LMT/Nightforce/NF-LMT-range%20001a.jpg

BucDan
05-25-2012, 1:12 PM
So my brother started to do some leg-work and called GAP; it's currently a 4 month wait and some extra cash to install BB, and cut down a pmag for it to work correctly in 10 round config. They had some issues in the past with cycling reliability for any mag less than 20.

To install bb ($35) to modify mag ($85), YIKES!!!! It appears they simply use a regular magpul mags but in 20, can't he just put a magblock in there in a 20 unit to limit it to 10?

$85 seems a bit high for a neutered mag. Yes he should be able to use a mag block. Else,

http://www.riflegear.com/p-690-magpul-pmag-lr20-10-round-20-body-magazine-762x51.aspx

The funny thing is, I thought they built the GAP-10's out of the AR-10 platform and not the AR-308 style of DPMS? Unless they are one of those few manufacturers that make it AR-10 based, but accepts DPMS style mags like KAC.

Mac7504
05-25-2012, 1:20 PM
I have an MWS. Its the cats meow as far as how it shoots. I can stay around 1/2 inch if I use good ammo and do my part. One thing that some forget is the cost of feeding 308 is double that of a 223. Consider that price jump if you go shooting every weekend.

The MWS is a fine weapon if you choose to go that brand.

http://www.michaelkdickson.com/webjunk/LMT/Nightforce/NF-LMT%20001a.jpg

http://www.michaelkdickson.com/webjunk/LMT/Nightforce/NF-LMT-range%20001a.jpg

That looks pretty damn tight to me...I keep telling him about the price of ammo but 1 dollar a round really doesn't seem to bother him for some reason. ha. We shoot every month, just about - not every weekend though.

$85 seems a bit high for a neutered mag. Yes he should be able to use a mag block. Else,

http://www.riflegear.com/p-690-magpul-pmag-lr20-10-round-20-body-magazine-762x51.aspx

The funny thing is, I thought they built the GAP-10's out of the AR-10 platform and not the AR-308 style of DPMS? Unless they are one of those few manufacturers that make it AR-10 based, but accepts DPMS style mags like KAC.

Does seem high, but i guess becasue they are doing all the work. I know about the 10/20 and 10/30 bodies, but unsure if GAP had issues with those as well. I'd have to call and ask for myself, my bro is not too good with details. sigh.

I'm not even sure on your last comment, I personally haven't dug into that far.