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View Full Version : Prototype AR15 stock, is it legal? Thoughts?


CaptainSlav
05-20-2012, 12:07 PM
Hello fellow calguns members, captain slav here. I am in the process of experimenting with stock
ideas for featureless builds. Before I go any further I want to make sure I am designing in the legal right.
In the attached image you can see my S15CA prototype 01. You can see how similar the grip looks to a pistol grip;
however, it does not allow for a total pistol styled grip. Your thumb is always higher then the index unless you modify
the stock. I was thinking of the JAE stock while designing this prototype. Either my interpretation of the law
is incorrect (and it could be haha), the DOJ.pdf is wrong or they said somewhere else you can't have any fingers
under the trigger. If none of that is the case we should be good to go right? I just need you guys to clarify and hopefully
give me feed back before I pursue prototype 01 any further. Thanks guys. Worst case, I have to go back to the drawing board
and buy some more foam. This is only a test and not the final prototype.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/CaptainSlav/S15CA2.jpg

You can see the Magical DOJ line and how we are so close to it yet so far.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/CaptainSlav/mms_picture.jpg

Another angle.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/CaptainSlav/mms_picture_2.jpg

And another angle.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/CaptainSlav/Screenshot2012-05-20at114927AM.png
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/CaptainSlav/Screenshot2012-05-20at115004AM.png
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/CaptainSlav/6350514895_8c61dbccb9.jpg


Above is the JAE stock and a grip comparison to it and prototype S15CA01. The grip on my stock looks awkward due to me trying to prevent it from falling over while holding it up. Anything you have seen today is my Intellectual property, so please don't steal. So what do you all think? I am trying to invent products that make our lives as gun owners in CA a bit easier. Thanks for taking the time to read all this. Keep criticism constructive please. Thank you all again.

Full Clip
05-20-2012, 12:13 PM
How's the clearance for your thumb between the stock and the (not pictured) buffer tube? Looks tight. (The JAE doesn't have to worry about that, of course.)

ElvenSoul
05-20-2012, 12:15 PM
If you can get a DOJ Letter you could sell those.

CaptainSlav
05-20-2012, 12:22 PM
How's the clearance for your thumb between the stock and the (not pictured) buffer tube? Looks tight. (The JAE doesn't have to worry about that, of course.)

I cut thumb groves just incase your thumb cant clear it. Not thumb holes mind you haha. Here is an attachment of where your thumb would be. I have thick fingers mind you.

CaptainSlav
05-20-2012, 12:30 PM
If you can get a DOJ Letter you could sell those.

Well thats great to know. I might have to redesign though if thumbs can't clear the buffer tube haha. Gotta work the bugs out now.

morthrane
05-20-2012, 12:54 PM
Silly observation: even though it would make for a really bad/awkward shooting grip, it looks like a shooter could get his thumb around the back of the protrusion at the bottom and still reach the trigger. This would put the web of the hand below the magic line and possibly qualify as a "pistol grip".

Peter.Steele
05-20-2012, 12:56 PM
Looks like it would be legal, but it also looks like it could cause a couple of other problems.

1. There's a reason that the barrel and stock are in a direct line. By changing the geometry of the interaction between the recoil vector and your shoulder, this will probably increase muzzle rise.

2. With the buffer tube in the way, you're going to probably have cheek weld issues.

3. Will your sights be in the correct line of sight anymore?

CaptainSlav
05-20-2012, 1:03 PM
Silly observation: even though it would make for a really bad/awkward shooting grip, it looks like a shooter could get his thumb around the back of the protrusion at the bottom and still reach the trigger. This would put the web of the hand below the magic line and possibly qualify as a "pistol grip".

Show me. Open up paint and draw it for me.

I attached a drawing to show what I think you mean. I can sand that away if that's a problem.

CaptainSlav
05-20-2012, 1:12 PM
Looks like it would be legal, but it also looks like it could cause a couple of other problems.

1. There's a reason that the barrel and stock are in a direct line. By changing the geometry of the interaction between the recoil vector and your shoulder, this will probably increase muzzle rise.

2. With the buffer tube in the way, you're going to probably have cheek weld issues.

3. Will your sights be in the correct line of sight anymore?

1. Noted thank you.

2. Also noted and I did think of an idea to solve that problem but I do not have a buffer tube to play with right now. Attached is an image of what I wanted to do with the buffer tube to solve the cheek weld issue and I guess this muzzle climb issue.

3. You should be able to gain the correct line of sight even with the stock lower I believe. I am no expert though.

Here is another image of something I could do to fix that.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/CaptainSlav/S15CAidea.jpg

sharxbyte
05-20-2012, 2:31 PM
Good Idea. I've played with it before. Check our last drawing though; the thumb clearance is still extremely small.

vliberatore
05-20-2012, 3:38 PM
I notice on the buffer tube you drew in paint, you have the positions for an adj. stock. Wouldn't an AR pistol buffer tube give you more thumb clearance?

NorCalK9.com
05-20-2012, 4:39 PM
I like your idea bud and please pm me if you decide to produce these Legally. I'll pay in advance. Buy i dont want pink lol

peter95
05-20-2012, 4:41 PM
looks up to spec IMO.

mocos
05-20-2012, 4:57 PM
1. Noted thank you.

2. Also noted and I did think of an idea to solve that problem but I do not have a buffer tube to play with right now. Attached is an image of what I wanted to do with the buffer tube to solve the cheek weld issue and I guess this muzzle climb issue.

3. You should be able to gain the correct line of sight even with the stock lower I believe. I am no expert though.

Here is another image of something I could do to fix that.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/CaptainSlav/S15CAidea.jpg

that's essentially what the SU-15 was all about...google it...

IPSICK
05-20-2012, 5:46 PM
that's essentially what the SU-15 was all about...google it...

You mean the U-15 (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=42322). Which I believe is no longer in production.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j97/Toolbox-X/California%20Rifles%20U-15%20Stock/U-15Rifle-LongRange.jpg

dfletcher
05-20-2012, 6:33 PM
I have a 1918 BAR and the stock configuration, relationship of thumb to receiver and trigger is one that I think could be duplicated for an AR to avoid the "pistol grip" offense. Coupled with something like the RRA upper that doesn't use a buffer it might be an interesting alternative.

The 1918 BAR is kind of a PITA to shoot - it doesn't "hold" all that well.

HBchevelle68
05-20-2012, 8:12 PM
Id say your good to go!

MrPlink
05-20-2012, 8:39 PM
You mean the U-15 (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=42322). Which I believe is no longer in production.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j97/Toolbox-X/California%20Rifles%20U-15%20Stock/U-15Rifle-LongRange.jpg

this survives though, cheap too!

http://exilemachine.net/images/IMG_8572_C.JPG