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rob86
05-17-2012, 2:23 PM
Its a AR upper and lower but the barrel is short. They classify it as a pistol but would California consider this a pistol? If they do view it as a pistol would it be legal in Cali?

http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=24

the86d
05-17-2012, 2:27 PM
I think ALL pistols have to be safety approved to be sold to Kommufornistein.

Unless you build it yourself, or 80% one... I don't think they would approve. I might be wrong.

Garadex
05-17-2012, 2:31 PM
I know that they have banned 'em at the range I frequent. IIRC I read somewhere that a pistol has to have the magazine be inserted into the grip to be allowed in here.

rob86
05-17-2012, 2:37 PM
What a bummer. I totally dig this setup.

the86d
05-17-2012, 2:38 PM
What a bummer. I totally dig this setup.

Mill an 80%...

morfeeis
05-17-2012, 2:39 PM
Its a AR upper and lower but the barrel is short. They classify it as a pistol but would California consider this a pistol? If they do view it as a pistol would it be legal in Cali?

http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=24
I don't know the facts on that AR pistol but i do know that AR pistol are legal in CA. you have to import them via SSE though, unless you just import the lower and dros it as a pistol then buy the upper separate. even then i think you need a BB, but i'm not sure on the BB part.

rob86
05-17-2012, 2:43 PM
what do you mean mill 80%

morfeeis
05-17-2012, 2:44 PM
Some reading for ya
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=565836&highlight=AR+pistol

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=475775
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=563269&highlight=AR+pistol
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=561998&highlight=AR+pistol


to make your mouth water
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=110703&highlight=AR+pistol

rob86
05-17-2012, 2:52 PM
Thanks for the info

luchador768
05-17-2012, 2:52 PM
Are you talking about the Diablo? There are a few members on here that have built pistols with that upper. For the AR pistols you either have to build an 80% lower or buy a complete pistol and SSE it. I guess it's possible to DROS a stripped virgin lower as a pistol, but I've only had dealers laugh at me when I asked. Search the galleries and you'll find a few pics of the diablo.

MrPlink
05-17-2012, 2:52 PM
The pistol itself can be made legal, it must comply with the AWB, ie it needs a magazine lock and you cannot use mags that hold 11 or more rds.

There are numerous ways to aquire one. If this is the exact one you want, go to the pistol forum and research "single shot exemptions"

MrPlink
05-17-2012, 2:54 PM
And unless you are LEO, you cannot DROS a lower as a pistol if purchased from a FFL. However, you can do a PPT for just a pistol lower.

luchador768
05-17-2012, 2:59 PM
^^^thanks!^^^

morfeeis
05-17-2012, 3:02 PM
And unless you are LEO, you cannot DROS a lower as a pistol if purchased from a FFL. However, you can do a PPT for just a pistol lower.
That's news to me, i thought you could DROS a stripped lower for pistol use. In fact i thought the only way you could use a lower as a AR pistol is if it was DROS'ed as a pistol lower. Well that's how my brother did it in AZ so it must be different in CA.

Sorry about that part.....

EvolutionGSR
05-17-2012, 3:08 PM
You can buy ar pistols at riflegear set up for legal transfer to a non leo in CA.

MrPlink
05-17-2012, 3:10 PM
Moorfeeis, AZ does not have a safe pistol roster to deal with like we do. Ar receivers are definintely NOT on the roster.

tonyxcom
05-17-2012, 3:20 PM
You have to buy them as complete pistols. There are shops that "buy back" your upper so you can then put whatever upper you want on it.

Capybara
05-17-2012, 5:05 PM
Michael at www.ebrworks.com built my AR pistol, err, Title I Firearm for me. He does great work and has all of the fun toys. I looked into it, it is fine to build your own AR pistol but in California, trying to get a pistol lower is a hassle and you aren't going to save any money over having a pro like Michael assemble it.

I picked my lower, upper, hand grip, BAD, VFG and added the Aimpoint and Michael put it together. Custom without having to do it yourself.

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w489/capybara84/ART1Angle.jpg

Fighting_Badger
05-17-2012, 7:10 PM
doing it yourself is most of the fun.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
05-17-2012, 8:31 PM
^this

And if you do, you can have something like this along with the pride that comes from actually making part of it yourself and not just assembling a pile of parts.

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt279/grumpyoldretiredcop/AR%20Pistol%20Project/ARPistolFinishedRightSideSightUp01.jpg

MrPlink
05-18-2012, 1:26 AM
you aren't going to save any money over having a pro like Michael assemble it.



Really?
I have a LMT upper with a BCM bcg in mine. I built it for under 700 dollars.
What did yours cost?

morfeeis
05-18-2012, 2:22 AM
Moorfeeis, AZ does not have a safe pistol roster to deal with like we do. Ar receivers are definintely NOT on the roster.
Should have thought about that.......:svengo:

alice901212
05-18-2012, 2:45 AM
I don't know the fact on that ,I don't think they would approve.

Don29palms
05-18-2012, 7:57 AM
I don't know much about pistols so I could be very wrong but I thought you coud not use a forward vertical grip on a pistol in the USSK.

Arkangel
05-18-2012, 8:27 AM
I don't know much about pistols so I could be very wrong but I thought you coud not use a forward vertical grip on a pistol in the USSK.

AR Pistols with an OAL above 26" are ok to have a vfg.

zfields
05-18-2012, 9:33 AM
Should have thought about that.......:svengo:

Also in free states, a stripped lower is an "Other" on the 4473 form, not a pistol/rifle like in CA.

Capybara
05-18-2012, 10:20 AM
Really?
I have a LMT upper with a BCM bcg in mine. I built it for under 700 dollars.
What did yours cost?

Not including the Aimpoint, just a few dollars more than yours. I agree, it is possible to do it yourself cheaper, but just like regular ARs, most Calgunners report that they end up spending more on building their own than buying a pre-built because it is so easy to order a brand XX upper that is super high quality, and this trigger because it is so much better...

I talked to a lot of guys over on the AR15.com AR pistol thread and a surprising amount of them spent over $2k on their AR pistols, which to me, it is a lot of money for a range toy.

You know the drill.

ICONIC
05-18-2012, 10:27 AM
I am not the biggest fan of the AR pistol. Are they cool looking, definitely. But as far as shooting one, I am sticking with my carbine.

But like many others said you have to buy a completely built one or mill one from an 80%.
Unless you know how to mill or have a friend with a mill and the knowledge I would just rather buy. Look on the commercial sales page for an ffl that can do the sse for you

CHS
05-18-2012, 5:01 PM
Also in free states, a stripped lower is an "Other" on the 4473 form, not a pistol/rifle like in CA.

In CA stripped lowers are also "other"'s on the 4473.

killemall419
05-18-2012, 5:52 PM
Alright, let me see if I can be of any help, and I'm sure someone with more knowledge can correct me and/or chime in at any time. Oh yeah, and in before the read the flow chart nazis:
First, yes I believe that particular model of firearms would be legal in California with a bullet button and a ten round magazine. However, to get said model of firearms into California, since it is not on the California Department of Justice Roster of Handguns Cetified for sale, it would have to be in SSE configuration (Single Shot Exempt). In order to do this, PWS would need to install a bullet button and then insert a "block" of some sort into the firearm to insure it could only fire one shot before being reloaded (other requirements of a SSE pistol are at least a 6 inch barrel and at least 10 inches in overall length.) Once those things are done, the firearm is exempt from the Handguns Certified For Sale list. Once you have DROS'D the pistol into your name, and have picked it up after the ten day wait, you can then remove the "block" and insert a ten round mag legally, with a bullet button. No more than ten rounds and never remove the bullet button. The only other way I know of to get just a pistol lower in California would be by building one from and 80% lower. (An 80% lower is a lower that has not technically been fully milled out to a full lower receiver yet i.e. needs the holes drilled for detents, takedown pins, etc.)
Second, you can not DROS just a pistol lower in California, as there would be no way to make it single shot or any way to certify it safe for sale in California. Once again, only an 80% lower would be legal in California for a pistol, on its own. (Unless Private Party Transferred)
Next, as a sort of side note, as far as I know, you can't put a vertical forward grip on a pistol, even over 26" of overall length, unless its the particular XO-26 model from Franklin Armory, who got a specific letter from the government saying it was approved. Any other pistol with a forward grip would have to go through a Title 1 process for a firearm (as it appears Capybara did for his pistol with a forward grip.) However, if you do go through the title 1 process, the upper does not have to be a specific length, nor does the firearms have to meet the 26" overall length requirement. (Again, anyone feel free to chime in if I am incorrect).
I feel like I may have missed a few things, and as always, this is just friendly advice. It's worth what you paid for it, lol. If you have any more questions or if anyone wants to correct any of my info. Please feel free to do so. And again, I am not a lawyer, so don't take anything I've said so far as legal advice.

CHS
05-18-2012, 8:39 PM
Second, you can not DROS just a pistol lower in California, as there would be no way to make it single shot or any way to certify it safe for sale in California. Once again, only an 80% lower would be legal in California for a pistol, on its own. (Unless Private Party Transferred)


The law says you can DROS a lower as a pistol in CA. The DOJ disagrees, but the law is pretty clear. Until the DOJ is forced to agree with THE LAW, you should not ask your FFL to DROS a lower as a pistol.


Next, as a sort of side note, as far as I know, you can't put a vertical forward grip on a pistol, even over 26" of overall length, unless its the particular XO-26 model from Franklin Armory, who got a specific letter from the government saying it was approved. Any other pistol with a forward grip would have to go through a Title 1 process for a firearm (as it appears Capybara did for his pistol with a forward grip.) However, if you do go through the title 1 process, the upper does not have to be a specific length, nor does the firearms have to meet the 26" overall length requirement. (Again, anyone feel free to chime in if I am incorrect).
I feel like I may have missed a few things, and as always, this is just friendly advice. It's worth what you paid for it, lol. If you have any more questions or if anyone wants to correct any of my info. Please feel free to do so. And again, I am not a lawyer, so don't take anything I've said so far as legal advice.

If the firearm is over 26", then it's title 1. Period. It can have a forward vertical grip. CA still considers it a pistol, but the forward vertical grip doesn't really matter since that's just an AW matter, and that's already covered by the bullet button it has.

FourLoko
05-18-2012, 9:08 PM
I finally shot some AR pistols last weekend. While they look super awesome, even in 9mm they seem rather pointless. I felt like I was wasting ammo.

Capybara
05-19-2012, 10:24 AM
Fun to shoot, the closest and Californian can get to an SBR, what's not too like? I wouldn't want on as my
only AR, but if you already have a good AR, they are a fun range toy. I have seen people be very accurate with them.

RustyMacHine
05-19-2012, 10:58 AM
I don't know the facts on that AR pistol but i do know that AR pistol are legal in CA. you have to import them via SSE though, unless you just import the lower and dros it as a pistol then buy the upper separate. even then i think you need a BB, but i'm not sure on the BB part.

You sir are slippin' (underlined)- You get a pass though in my book! :D

The ways you can get a pistol lower imported here:

-If you're LEO exempt from roster.

-Intrafamilial transfer.

(these are the only two that I know of)

must have bullet button/mag- lock

@ OP- if it is not in the banned list and has a magazine lock then it's good to go, but from what it looks like you're trying to order the whole package on-line from out of state... Good Luck!


In CA stripped lowers are also "other"'s on the 4473.

^^This- but I haven't found a dealer yet close to me that would let me do this. DROS a stripped lower and build it into a pistol.



.
.

CAglock20c
05-19-2012, 11:36 AM
You sir are slippin' (underlined)- You get a pass though in my book! :D

The ways you can get a pistol lower imported here:

-If you're LEO exempt from roster.

-Intrafamilial transfer.

(these are the only two that I know of)

must have bullet button/mag- lock

@ OP- if it is not in the banned list and has a magazine lock then it's good to go, but from what it looks like you're trying to order the whole package on-line from out of state... Good Luck!




^^This- but I haven't found a dealer yet close to me that would let me do this. DROS a stripped lower and build it into a pistol.



.
.

you forgot about buying one already built in SSE configuration

RustyMacHine
05-19-2012, 11:52 AM
you forgot about buying one already built in SSE configuration

You can buy those complete AR pistol anywhere they're sold or even PPT a pistol lower almost anywhere. What I was referring to was IMPORTING a stripped pistol lower from out of state.



.

CHS
05-19-2012, 1:34 PM
^^This- but I haven't found a dealer yet close to me that would let me do this. DROS a stripped lower and build it into a pistol.


I think you're confused about the 4473 and DROS.

4473 is the federal paperwork. In CA, all receivers are marked as "other" on the 4473, period. All receivers, all FFL's.

The DROS is a California thing, and receivers are either DROS'ed as "long gun" or "pistol".