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View Full Version : Physics and Microstamping - mixed results


Librarian
05-06-2007, 8:07 PM
Appropriate to AB 1471 (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_1451-1500/ab_1471_bill_20070410_amended_asm_v98.html), this article (http://www.physorg.com/news97430920.html%5Dwww.physorg.com/news97430920.html).
Microstamping Guns Feasible but Flawed, Study Finds
New technology to link cartridge cases to guns by engraving microscopic codes on the firing pin is feasible, but does not work well for all guns and ammunition tested in a pilot study by researchers from the forensic science program at UC Davis. More testing in a wider range of firearms is needed to determine the costs and feasibility of a statewide program of microstamping, as called for by proposed state legislation, the researchers said.
Doesn't address some of the other obvious problems with the bill or the idea.

MIKEUSMC2005
05-06-2007, 8:13 PM
This is the most idiotic thing I ever heard of. Do anti-gun folks honestly believe micro stamping will work? Criminals will do one thing, smuggle them in from Mexico.

Patriot
05-06-2007, 8:35 PM
This is the most idiotic thing I ever heard of. Do anti-gun folks honestly believe micro stamping will work? Criminals will do one thing, smuggle them in from Mexico.

I assume that microstamps aren't observable by the unaided eye or hand lenses? Sounds like a great future excuse to confiscate ammunition "for forensic testing" on suspicions of illegal possession.

Librarian
05-06-2007, 8:56 PM
This version is for fired cases marked by the weapon; there was another one last year? the year before? where the ammo was supposed to be serialized when manufactured.

Richie Rich
05-06-2007, 10:25 PM
It is not supposed to work.

IMO, it is another step towards an outright firearms ban in the state.

Look at how the "safe handgun" laws work.

"Oh darn, you gun manufacturers can't get microstamping to work, guess you can't sell your product here in Ca"

Or someone will actually make it work, but it will make the cost of the firearm double that of a non microstamping model.

They just keep chip, chip, chipping away...

Scarecrow Repair
05-06-2007, 11:08 PM
Or someone will actually make it work, but it will make the cost of the firearm double that of a non microstamping model.

Don't misquote the article. It said the microstamping on the end of the firing pin did work in that after 2500 rounds, the microstamping was intact and did transfer legibly to the cases. Stamping on the side of the firing pin in the form of bar codes and dots did not survive 2500 rounds. It is not clear if that was 2500 rounds total for all firing pins tested, or per firing pin. It is also not clear how much difference there was between handguns and rifles.

They estimated the cost at $8 per firing pin in the first year and $2 thereafter.

It may be a gun grabber's wet dream, it may be a communist plot right up there with the black helicopters, but it does no good to misrepresent things. You must know your enemy, and you can't do that while misrepresenting facts.

Rivers
05-06-2007, 11:18 PM
How does this affect reloading of previously fired cases? Would the reloaded cartridge continue to carry the ID of the previous weapon?

If so, it seems that a smart criminal would pick up brass at a firing range, reload the cases and use those bullets in a pre-microstamping firearm. That would firmly put the blame on the unsuspecting owner of the microstamping firearm.

That is going to "help" law enforcement???

Technical Ted
05-06-2007, 11:20 PM
How does this affect reloading of previously fired cases? Would the reloaded cartridge continue to carry the ID of the previous weapon?
Since the stamp is on the primer, and primers get replaced it would seem logical that the reloaded round would no longer carry the ID stamp of the firearm the case was previously used in.

Technical Ted
05-06-2007, 11:30 PM
This is the most idiotic thing I ever heard of. Do anti-gun folks honestly believe micro stamping will work? Criminals will do one thing, smuggle them in from Mexico.
Nothing in the bill says you can't repair or replace a new handgun's firing pin after you purchase it.

shark92651
05-06-2007, 11:51 PM
Since the stamp is on the primer, and primers get replaced it would seem logical that the reloaded round would no longer carry the ID stamp of the firearm the case was previously used in.

It's probably safe to assume that a criminal is not going to bother to collect their cases for reloading after they pop a cap in somebody's azz. It's probably also safe to assume that a criminal would either get the gun from out of state or take a few minues to rub the microstamp off the firing pin with some fine-grit sandpaper. This legislation would be comical if it weren't for the fact that they are serious about passing it.

bwiese
05-07-2007, 12:04 AM
Wondering about type of primers used. I'd imagine that some primers, esp on milsurp ammo, may not ever get marked legibly, regardless of freshness/lifespan of firing pin.

Solidmch
05-07-2007, 12:29 AM
It will drive the price of handgun through the roof in California if this worthless law gets in.

aklover_91
05-07-2007, 12:57 AM
Come on, guys, this is a great idea that will work perfectly. After all, bad guys don't know what a file is, right?

socalguns
05-07-2007, 1:17 AM
SFW? The bill is garbage.

Draven
05-07-2007, 3:11 AM
Come on, guys, this is a great idea that will work perfectly. After all, bad guys don't know what a file is, right?

If I had $125 to spare, I'd have a gunsmith friend order a microstamp pin (made by ONE MANUFACTURER...) for my roomate's .380, and I'd then post a video to Youtube showing people how to remove it.

Scarecrow Repair
05-07-2007, 6:06 AM
It will drive the price of handgun through the roof in California if this worthless law gets in.

NO it won't. They predict costs of $8 per firing pin the first year and $2 afterwards.

It does no good to misprepresent the opposition. There are any number of things wrong with it, pick any of them, but cost is not the problem.

hoffmang
05-07-2007, 6:38 AM
Scarecrow,

$8 per firearm for the limited market of California and maybe one other state will discourage certain smaller manufacturers on the margin from selling into California. That's already on top of the magazine disconnect and drop testing.

For drop testing alone thats an extra $45 (I'm under the impression that it takes 5 samples to DOJ to get on the approved list.)

-Gene

Richie Rich
05-07-2007, 6:56 AM
Sorry guys, I tend to jump the gun. (pun intended).

Just really passionate about my rights and sometimes I overreact a tad. Don't mean to add fuel to the fire.

Don't they have some real criminals to catch rather then bugging people who try really hard to conform to their laws?

Think of the money and time invested into microstamping and the billion or so better uses that they could have for it.

spgk380
05-07-2007, 8:26 AM
Since when did Democrats ever let the laws of Economics, Physics or Mathematics stand in the way of the "truth", as Colbert would say...?

Liberalism is about feeling all warm and fluffy inside, like a Teddy Ruckspin, not about being educated or rational-minded.

spgk380
05-07-2007, 8:29 AM
It is not supposed to work.

IMO, it is another step towards an outright firearms ban in the state.

Look at how the "safe handgun" laws work.

"Oh darn, you gun manufacturers can't get microstamping to work, guess you can't sell your product here in Ca"

Or someone will actually make it work, but it will make the cost of the firearm double that of a non microstamping model.

They just keep chip, chip, chipping away...

Yes, but think of how warm and fuzzy mothers will feel when the the guy who shot their baby with a deadly assault weapon leaves his digits ;)