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View Full Version : Legal in California: mailorder handgun ammo?


Darto
05-16-2012, 7:54 PM
Is there a difference for purchasing mailorder handgun ammo in California, as opposed to shotgun shells and rifle ammunition?

If so, what about .38-40, .44-40 and other calibers that are chambered commonly in both handguns and rifles?

What about purchasing mailorder modern made replicas of muzzleloading antique handguns and modern replicas of cap and ball civil war era short barrel revolvers?

Here we have an expired auction for a modern replica cap and ball where the seller says a California resident buyer/purchaser/mail order receiver must go through an FFL dealer. Is it legal for a California resident who is of age, not a fellon and so forth from buying such a replica cap and ball without going through an FFL dealer, and receiving it in the mail by UPS?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=284949054

Thank you !

stix213
05-16-2012, 8:01 PM
Mail ordering ammo is just fine in California straight to your door, except a few local jurisdictions think they can restrict it. The ban on mail order of handgun ammo was struck down in the courts before it ever took effect. If you post your location someone can probably tell you if mail order ammo has no issues where you live.

If your replica guns are real guns, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't have to go through the same FFL process just like every other real gun. I don't know much about cap and ball, so hopefully someone else can verify or refute what I just said on that.

alfred1222
05-16-2012, 8:12 PM
Where do you live?? as far as i know, and i could be wrong, but you cant ship ammo to Sac, LA, or SF

Darto
05-16-2012, 8:27 PM
I receive mailorder ammo fine here is Stanislaus County, but never before handgun ammo.

I also receive modern made replica long arms through the mail, recently a muzzle loading double barrel shotgun (percussion). I was surprised this auction seemed to indicate a replica civil war blackpowder frontloader cap and ball handgun would not be just as legal as that muzzle loader longarm was.

Maybe I will ask Cabellas, who sell over a dozen models of replica cap and balls mailorder from their online site.

DoomeD
05-16-2012, 8:28 PM
The link you provided is for a handgun, not ammo.

Darto
05-16-2012, 8:43 PM
My OP had 2 questions, the second was about handguns.

Log of cabellas online help, just now, five minutes ago:

me: I live in california, stanislaus county, is there a law against buying a replica

civil war cap and ball revolver in the State of California? I know I can buy legally a replica civil

war long gun, but not sure about a pistol

cabellas.: May I have that item number ?

me: Item: IK-210082 (model 1858 Remingon cap and ball .44 civil war replica).

cabellas: we should be able to ship this to your area

me: thank you very much sir. thanks!

cabellas: You may want to check with your local authority about any local laws on this type of firearm, You're welcome. Is there anything else I can help you with?
me: nope, thanks again. Bye
cabellas : Thank you for visiting Cabelas.com! Have a great evening!

DoomeD
05-16-2012, 8:49 PM
Posted in the description, stated that it needed a FFL for California to ship to. C&R handguns still need to be sent to a FFL.

Darto
05-16-2012, 9:13 PM
Lots of ambiguities on this site, doesn't really tell me what I wanted to know:

http://www.thegunsource.com/California-Handguns-Legal.aspx

""California approved handguns, are the most regulated as well as the strictest handgun laws in the United States. All purchased handguns must be registered with the California Department of Justice, according to the Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989, which also banned a wide variety of pistols, revolvers, and various firearms configurations such as folding stocks, threaded barrels, and detachable magazines. Due to the ban of many firearms, a California testing statute has been adopted, which allows manufacturers to submit their firearms for approval, with the required fee.

Concealable Firearms must be registered (handguns mainly)
No Handguns Can Be Purchased with 30 day of Last Handgun Purchased
No Firearms that accepts more then a 10 round magazines
Registration of handguns must be completed
All Handgun sales must be done through California FFL dealer
Over the years a number of other court cases, including the NRA attempted to lift some of the strict firearms restrictions, with no pro-gun victories. We are proud to offer a wide range of California legal firearm, which can be transfer to a Federal Firearms License holder in the state of California. There are several notable exemptions to these laws which are as follows.

Police Transfers
Other FFL Dealers
Manufacturers of Firearms
Curios & Relic Firearms
Auctioning at Nonprofit or Public Benefit Corporations
Currently California has 46 handgun manufacturers that have been approved in California, which is constantly being updated with new models. According to California state testing, each firearms must be tested to approve; firearms finish, model, & make, in order to ensure you can obtain your desired firearm, please make sure it's listed on the California Department of Justice approved handguns list. According to the California DOJ the handgun finish justifies it being considered a different firearm, despite the identical working parts of other approved models. ""

Darto
05-16-2012, 9:15 PM
But thanks, all, for clearing up the handgun ammo issue for me, I see that is as legal as long gun ammo. Thanks again.

Squid
05-16-2012, 9:20 PM
just leave it on the door step.

PM720
05-16-2012, 9:37 PM
Keep in mind that many GB sellers have requirements that are not necessarily required by law. Sort of CYA in some cases I think.

Scott

HogKiller
05-16-2012, 10:01 PM
[QUOTE=Darto;8592956]Lots of ambiguities on this site, doesn't really tell me what I wanted to know:

http://www.thegunsource.com/California-Handguns-Legal.aspx

""California approved handguns, are the most regulated as well as the strictest handgun laws in the United States. All purchased handguns must be registered with the California Department of Justice, according to the Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989, which also banned a wide variety of pistols, revolvers, and various firearms configurations such as folding stocks, threaded barrels, and detachable magazines. Due to the ban of many firearms, a California testing statute has been adopted, which allows manufacturers to submit their firearms for approval, with the required fee.

Concealable Firearms must be registered (handguns mainly)
No Handguns Can Be Purchased with 30 day of Last Handgun Purchased
No Firearms that accepts more then a 10 round magazines
snip

I'll tell you right now this last one is wrong, or at least the wrong phrasing. At least one brand on the roster will accept 10+ round magazines. There may be more but the Springfield XD9 will accept a 18 round magazine. Which IS illegal to have in this greatly screwed up state. :44:

tba02
05-16-2012, 10:12 PM
Where do you live?? as far as i know, and i could be wrong, but you cant ship ammo to Sac, LA, or SF

I have received ammo in SF without a problem.

Darto
05-16-2012, 10:59 PM
11 round .22's tube magazines are legal.
11 round shotguns tube magazines are legal unless it is a lever gun, (but kind of impractical in say a 12 gauge due to weight of the shells).

Darto
05-17-2012, 12:08 AM
Me: According to these definitions, I have come to believe it is lawful in California to buy a replica black powder gun that does not use cartridges via mailorder while not using an FFL dealer:

===california site: http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/Cfl2007.pdf?

"DEFINITIONS
Firearms

The term firearm includes rifles, shotguns, revolvers, pistols, or any other device designed to be
used as a weapon from which a projectile is expelled by the force of any explosion or other form of
combustion. The term firearm includes the frame or receiver of any such weapon. (Penal Code §
12001.)

For the purposes of sections 12025 and 12031, the term firearm also includes any rocket, rocket
propelled projectile launcher, or similar device containing any explosive or incendiary material
whether or not the device is designed for emergency or distress signaling purposes. (Penal Code §
12001.)

Handguns
A handgun is any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person that
has a barrel length of less than 16 inches. The term also applies to any device that has a barrel
length of 16 inches or more which is designed to be interchanged with a barrel less than 16 inches.
(Penal Code § 12001(a).)

Exceptions
The term firearm does not apply to a federally defined “antique” firearm for the purpose of dealer
licensing requirements, sales or loans between private parties, or requirements to obtain a Handgun
Safety Certificate pursuant to Penal Code sections 12070, 12071, subdivisions (b) (c) or (d) of
12072, or 12073. The term firearm does not apply to federally defined “curio” or “relic” long guns
over 50 years old for the purpose of transfers between private parties. (Penal Code §§ 12001(e),
12078(t)(2).) ""
======

Me: so for purposes of the laws in the summary booklet a 'firearm' is not something that is federally defined as an antique because....

here is the federal definition of antique:
=========
http://usgovinfo.about.com/bloldguns.htm

""Title 18, Section 921(a)(16) then defines "antique firearm" as follows:

"The term 'antique firearm' means -

(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; and
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica -
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade." ""
================

Me: A replica of a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap gun, or similar manufactured before 1898 is an antique according to federal law, and California law exempts in their firearms FAQ booklet guns that are federally defined antiques.

b.faust
05-17-2012, 12:47 AM
I have received ammo in SF without a problem.

Same here. Certain companies *cough*midwayusa*cough* seem to take issue with it. Hell they won't even ship me brass or bullets.

But a lot of other folks do so they get my money.

No ammo in SF is like a bad urban legend that won't go away.

Librarian
05-17-2012, 1:01 AM
Me: According to these definitions, I have come to believe it is lawful in California to buy a replica black powder gun that does not use cartridges via mailorder while not using an FFL dealer:

===california site: http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/Cfl2007.pdf?

"DEFINITIONS
Firearms

The term firearm includes rifles, shotguns, revolvers, pistols, or any other device designed to be
used as a weapon from which a projectile is expelled by the force of any explosion or other form of
combustion. The term firearm includes the frame or receiver of any such weapon. (Penal Code §
12001.)

For the purposes of sections 12025 and 12031, the term firearm also includes any rocket, rocket
propelled projectile launcher, or similar device containing any explosive or incendiary material
whether or not the device is designed for emergency or distress signaling purposes. (Penal Code §
12001.)

Handguns
A handgun is any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person that
has a barrel length of less than 16 inches. The term also applies to any device that has a barrel
length of 16 inches or more which is designed to be interchanged with a barrel less than 16 inches.
(Penal Code § 12001(a).)

Exceptions
The term firearm does not apply to a federally defined “antique” firearm for the purpose of dealer
licensing requirements, sales or loans between private parties, or requirements to obtain a Handgun
Safety Certificate pursuant to Penal Code sections 12070, 12071, subdivisions (b) (c) or (d) of
12072, or 12073. The term firearm does not apply to federally defined “curio” or “relic” long guns
over 50 years old for the purpose of transfers between private parties. (Penal Code §§ 12001(e),
12078(t)(2).) ""
======

Me: so for purposes of the laws in the summary booklet a 'firearm' is not something that is federally defined as an antique because....

here is the federal definition of antique:
=========
http://usgovinfo.about.com/bloldguns.htm

""Title 18, Section 921(a)(16) then defines "antique firearm" as follows:

"The term 'antique firearm' means -

(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; and
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica -
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade." ""
================

Me: A replica of a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap gun, or similar manufactured before 1898 is an antique according to federal law, and California law exempts in their firearms FAQ booklet guns that are federally defined antiques.

All right, as far as you go, but you left out a little bit of critical info: for purposes of carry and use in crimes, and possession by felons, antiques ARE firearms under CA law.

See the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Definition_of_a_firearm/gun

Darto
05-17-2012, 7:01 PM
But on the other hand for purposes of buying them by mailorder a replica of a cap and ball revolver, kentucky pistol, Le Page deuler, ect. is an antique firearm. And therefore do not need to be purchased through an FFL. Just like a replica of a long arm using percussion, flintlock, matchlock, dog lock, etc.

Is this not true, everyone?

charlie9996
05-25-2012, 4:58 PM
I have done of couple of mail orders purchases of ammo to Los Angeles in the last month. No problem.

Farrier-1
05-25-2012, 5:09 PM
I think Darto's question/s are suspicious.

Looks like decoy questions to me.

hiyabrad
07-30-2012, 11:36 PM
I have done of couple of mail orders purchases of ammo to Los Angeles in the last month. No problem.

WHo are you buying from?

advocatusdiaboli
07-31-2012, 7:24 AM
I think Darto's question/s are suspicious.

Looks like decoy questions to me.

He/she is probably on Yee's staff and doing research for the next round of legislation. :TFH: :willy_nilly:

OlderThanDirt
07-31-2012, 8:48 AM
But on the other hand for purposes of buying them by mailorder a replica of a cap and ball revolver, kentucky pistol, Le Page deuler, ect. is an antique firearm. And therefore do not need to be purchased through an FFL. Just like a replica of a long arm using percussion, flintlock, matchlock, dog lock, etc.

Is this not true, everyone?

Yes, you can purchase black powder firearms, including handguns, on the internet and have them delivered directly to your house. There are no FFL requirements for black powder firearms in California. Some retailers will even sell you a starter kit so you can have all of the necessary components delivered in the same box. You can even get spare cylinders to facilitate "rapid" reloading.

Where I live it is common to see gang bangers walking down the street with an Army 1858 revolver tucked in their waistband. The crime rate with these firearms is huge, or would be if these retards could ever figure out how to load the boolits.

QXSOUP
07-31-2012, 4:00 PM
I live in Sacramento. I purchased 2K thru mail order last month with no problems.

I used https://www.targetsportsusa.com/default.aspx

(The link above is not an ad or an endorsement)

adampolo13
07-31-2012, 4:03 PM
www.luckygunner.com

Best site if found yet...

Farrier-1
07-31-2012, 5:24 PM
FUD question.

RudyN
07-31-2012, 8:31 PM
I have ordered cap and ball revolvers and percussion rifles through the mail and no problem. I

Gabriel80
08-01-2012, 8:07 AM
I recently ordered a ton of .40cal / .380 / .25 auto from CheaperThanDirt.com came to my house in Burbank no problem at all. Couldn't have been easier and it was still cheaper than the SALE prices at Big 5!