PDA

View Full Version : Legal Proof of Ownership


4DSJW
05-16-2012, 4:14 PM
Didn't want to hijack the thread on the lawsuit against Oakland/SF. After reading the thread I'm wondering what is LEGALLY considered to be proof of ownership. These are (I think) obvious-

- Receipt or Invoice listing SN and make/model
- DROS for a handgun purchase
- Printout from DOJ

What if you don't have any of those for a purchase, or you have a firearm that was purchased, gifted, given, bequeathed long ago? What is considered LEGAL proof that it is your property?

- A picture of you holding it, even though the SN wouldn't show?
- A pic of the firearm showing the SN?
- A pic of the firearm with the SN listed as text?
- A text entry in a logbook?

This would be good to know before a potential loss and attempt at recovery. Personally I have a pic of everything I own that lists the model and SN on a disc. Thanks for any help you can give on what is considered legal proof.

Librarian
05-16-2012, 5:09 PM
Didn't want to hijack the thread on the lawsuit against Oakland/SF. After reading the thread I'm wondering what is LEGALLY considered to be proof of ownership. These are (I think) obvious-

- Receipt or Invoice listing SN and make/model
- DROS for a handgun purchase
- Printout from DOJ

What if you don't have any of those for a purchase, or you have a firearm that was purchased, gifted, given, bequeathed long ago? What is considered LEGAL proof that it is your property?

- A picture of you holding it, even though the SN wouldn't show?
- A pic of the firearm showing the SN?
- A pic of the firearm with the SN listed as text?
- A text entry in a logbook?

This would be good to know before a potential loss and attempt at recovery. Personally I have a pic of everything I own that lists the model and SN on a disc. Thanks for any help you can give on what is considered legal proof.

None of the above, which, of course, is the point (or one of the points) of the suit.

You don't NEED to prove ownership of most things. If someone were to demand proof that you owned the shoes you are wearing, you'd likely be stumped, unless you happened to have just bought them. The complaint points to Evidence Code (as does the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Firearms_registration#Supporting_law_of_ownership) .

4DSJW
05-17-2012, 3:27 PM
Librarian, thank you for the reply and the link. It all makes sense but revolves around possession of an item. What would you need to legally prove that an item is yours in the following situation-

The firearm is a plain-jane rifle that you purchased 30 years ago, no receipts and no one besides you to state that you are the owner.

You go out to the range and forget your rifle in the rack when you leave. Someone takes the rifle and heads home, takes a pic and enters the info and pic into their computer. You call the cops and report the gun as stolen.

You see your rifle being used the next time you are at the range and ask for it back, the thief refuses, you call the cops.

When they arrive you tell the officers, "that's my rifle, I have pics, SN, make and model #". The thief says, "so do I, you could have taken that information the last time I was here at the range and left my gun in the rack when I went to the john". The officers tell the thief that the rifle has been reported as stolen. The thief then tells the officers that you must have taken the information and reported the gun as stolen. The officers take the rifle and you and the thief end up in court... I assume.

In a situation like this where possession does not indicate ownership and ownership is contested, is there anything, outside of a receipt/invoice, that is considered by the courts to legally prove ownership?

No this is not something that actually happened but it is a plausible event that COULD happen to someone.

Thank you, to anyone, for a thoughtful response!