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ns3v3n
05-05-2007, 6:18 PM
so i'm making a varmint built, with a DPMS 20" LoPro varmint upper, it's a flat top, and a simmon whitetail classic 6.5x20x50mm scope. can you guys suggest some scope rings to hold it in place? something that wont cost like a hundred bucks. thanks.

maxicon
05-05-2007, 7:06 PM
I like QR rings, as I swap optics around a lot. Remember that sturdier rings are also heavier rings, so there's a bit of tradeoff there if you want to keep the weight down.

If you want QR, Leupold's QRW (be sure it's QRW, not QR, which are for their proprietary mounts) have worked very well for me, and they run about $50 a set. The recoil lug on these is the cross-slot screw, so they're not as solid under heavy recoil as rings with built-in recoil lugs, like ARMS, but I haven't had any problem with them.

I also have some Warne Optima QR rings that are sturdy and cost about the same as the Leupolds, but the recoil lug on them is a separate piece, and it's not only a bit loose, it falls out as I mount the rings sometimes and I find it lying on the bench.

For non-QR, Leupold's PRW are only around $35 a pair, and Warne's non-QR rings are also popular for around $30 - both are similar to the QR versions, but without the levers.

Many folks are happy with the Burris Xtreme rings, which are extra-wide (3 screws) and extra-sturdy. This can cause fit problems with some scopes and can limit adjustment, but they get great reviews. I don't have any, but the budget-oriented folks at arfcom tend to like them.

Finally, the Burris Zee rings are popular rings in the $20 range, and will hold up to AR recoil just fine. You probably don't want to go any cheaper than that!

You can read some user reviews on various rings over at midway:
http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse?TabID=10&Categoryid=8582&categorystring=657***698***

ns3v3n
05-05-2007, 8:24 PM
I like QR rings, as I swap optics around a lot. Remember that sturdier rings are also heavier rings, so there's a bit of tradeoff there if you want to keep the weight down.

If you want QR, Leupold's QRW (be sure it's QRW, not QR, which are for their proprietary mounts) have worked very well for me, and they run about $50 a set. The recoil lug on these is the cross-slot screw, so they're not as solid under heavy recoil as rings with built-in recoil lugs, like ARMS, but I haven't had any problem with them.

I also have some Warne Optima QR rings that are sturdy and cost about the same as the Leupolds, but the recoil lug on them is a separate piece, and it's not only a bit loose, it falls out as I mount the rings sometimes and I find it lying on the bench.

For non-QR, Leupold's PRW are only around $35 a pair, and Warne's non-QR rings are also popular for around $30 - both are similar to the QR versions, but without the levers.

Many folks are happy with the Burris Xtreme rings, which are extra-wide (3 screws) and extra-sturdy. This can cause fit problems with some scopes and can limit adjustment, but they get great reviews. I don't have any, but the budget-oriented folks at arfcom tend to like them.

Finally, the Burris Zee rings are popular rings in the $20 range, and will hold up to AR recoil just fine. You probably don't want to go any cheaper than that!

You can read some user reviews on various rings over at midway:
http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse?TabID=10&Categoryid=8582&categorystring=657***698***

will these be high enough for the 50mm scope on a flattop Ar?

ns3v3n
05-05-2007, 8:29 PM
i just want to find out what height of rings do i need, med/high/extra high? thanks for your help.

swift
05-06-2007, 11:00 AM
good luck getting the right height on the rings. I purchased low profile, medium and high for my varmint upper (low pro) with a B-square riser. with teh B-square, the low rings are too low and the medium rings are too high. Without the B-square, the high rings are too low. I guess I should have gotten the extra-high rings as a buddy suggested. It just seemed like the scope would be so far off the rifle.

My scope is a Vari-X III with a 40 mm objective. I have choate stock with the hook. I should have just bought the stock with the adjustable comb.

maxicon
05-06-2007, 12:15 PM
Welcome to the confusing world of magnified optics on the AR.

For 50mm mounted directly to the flat top, you'll probably need extra high, depending on the rings, the scope, and the handguard. As Swift says, it's a bit of a gamble - ring height is different for each manufacturer, and not all of them tell you how tall they are.

If you have the scope and rifle already, you should check for eye relief before you buy any mounts. This is easiest with 2 people. I like to shoulder the rifle with my eyes closed, then open them and have the other person move the scope until I get a clear field of view. At this position, look at whether a ring mounted on the front half would still be on the upper.

For many people, it'll be ahead of the upper, and you'll be better off with an extended rail or mount. I find an extended rail offers the most flexibility, as you can move the scope a lot, and try different rings.

I need the eyepiece ahead of the charging handle, as in this pic:
http://www.maxicon.com/guns/ar/varmint_leup_clone_rra_scout-a.jpg

If I mount directly to the flattop, it's too far back for eye relief, and the scope gets in the way of the charging handle, like so. These are Warne Maxima medium 30mm QR rings on a 40mm Leupold clone.
http://www.maxicon.com/guns/ar/varmint_leup_clone_warne_qrw-a.jpg

This is different for everyone, though, which is why you see a lot of mounts and rings selling cheap at arfcom's equipment exchange.

If you have the ring height measurement, you can calculate how high the scope needs to be. Measure the bell of the scope and add a few tenths of an inch to provide some space above the rail, then divide that in 2. This gives you where the centerline of the scope needs to be. If it's a 1" tube, your centerline is 1/2" above the ring, so subtract 1/2" from the number you got, and that gives the minimum height of the ring you need to clear the rail. If your handguards are above the rail, you need to add that distance to the required ring height to clear them.

For example, the Leupold clone above has a 2" bell and a 30mm (1.2") tube, and the Warne mounts are 0.46" tall.

2" bell divided by 2 gives 1"; 1.2" tube divided by 2 gives 0.6". 1" - 0.6" gives 0.4", and the Warne rings are 0.46" tall, so they'll fit with a little room to spare, as seen in the pic. It helps that the handguard is below the rails, so that gives extra room. Still, this is mounted a bit low for some people.

If I had a higher profile handguard, I'd have to measure how much the handguard sticks above the rail and add that in. Mounting on an extended rail helps avoid that problem, but some extended rails don't clear tall handguard either.

You can see from the picture of the scope on the RRA rail, there's plenty of handguard clearance, but the scope rear bell to rail clearance is the same as if it's mounted directly to the flattop, since the rings are the same.

If you want BUIS, it gets more complicated, since you need to mount the BUIS directly to the flattop, and some rails, like the RRA above, don't leave any room for that. The rear bell will also need to clear the BUIS, which you can calculate like above, but adding the BUIS height to the ring height.

Here's a chart at Midway that helps with general heights:
http://www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/staticpages/charts/ring_height.htm

and a chart of some ring heights:
http://www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/staticpages/charts/ring_height_comparisons.htm

I'd double-check against Midway's numbers, though, since mistakes add up over time...

6172crew
05-06-2007, 1:07 PM
Get a RRA, Armalite, Larue one piece scope mount, all of them are pretty sturdy bbut only the Larue will return zero if removed.

maxicon
05-06-2007, 9:01 PM
The RRA has very little eye relief extension, the Armalite has more, and the LaRue has the most, plus they make an extended version with even more. The LaRue's definitely the best (but is $200), especially for quick release, since it's got throw levers rather than thumbscrews. My Armalite's been fine for return to zero, though, and costs half the price, if you don't need the ultra-quick release or the eye relief. One-piece mounts are less flexible but more solid than rail and ring combos, so it's a tradeoff.

We've been talking about the Mueller IGR 50mm over at arfcom, which is a big scope, and one of the folks there has just mounted his in Warne ultrahigh mounts for a perfect fit on his upper. That scope's got a 2.45" objective bell, so if your Simmon's around the same size, they should work. They're reasonably priced, and sturdy.

Here's the thread, with pics:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=326988&page=1�

ns3v3n
05-06-2007, 11:56 PM
i appreicate this info, it will be in good use.


The RRA has very little eye relief extension, the Armalite has more, and the LaRue has the most, plus they make an extended version with even more. The LaRue's definitely the best (but is $200), especially for quick release, since it's got throw levers rather than thumbscrews. My Armalite's been fine for return to zero, though, and costs half the price, if you don't need the ultra-quick release or the eye relief. One-piece mounts are less flexible but more solid than rail and ring combos, so it's a tradeoff.

We've been talking about the Mueller IGR 50mm over at arfcom, which is a big scope, and one of the folks there has just mounted his in Warne ultrahigh mounts for a perfect fit on his upper. That scope's got a 2.45" objective bell, so if your Simmon's around the same size, they should work. They're reasonably priced, and sturdy.

Here's the thread, with pics:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=326988&page=1�