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View Full Version : CGF, SAF Vs Oakland, SF lawsuit in Wall Street Journal article


tankarian
05-15-2012, 7:22 AM
SAF is joined in the lawsuit by the Calguns Foundation and two private citizens. The case is known as Churchill, et al. v. Harris, et al. More (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/saf-calguns-foundation-sue-oakland-san-francisco-police-2012-05-14)

Congratulations!

Paladin
05-15-2012, 7:34 AM
Great article.

I can't wait until we win (assuming we will...), a public RKBA and strict scrutiny. That's when a barrage of these cases get filed all around the nation! :43:

Sutcliffe
05-15-2012, 7:40 AM
When public officials can actually be prosecuted for such behavior.

viet4lifeOC
05-15-2012, 8:11 AM
In regards to "proof of ownership of firearm"....Can't you just get DOJ transcript to the DROS of the firearm(s)?

When I DROSed a firearm, most FFL never gave me the form. Can't I get a list of firearms that I DROSed from DOJ?

thanks

Librarian
05-15-2012, 8:17 AM
In regards to "proof of ownership of firearm"....Can't you just get DOJ transcript to the DROS of the firearm(s)?

When I DROSed a firearm, most FFL never gave me the form. Can't I get a list of firearms that I DROSed from DOJ?

thanks

Not long guns - that info is not retained beyond 5 days, IIRC, and has no identifying information anyway; and not all handguns are registered. That's the point of the suit.

If a gun can be found in the Automated Firearms System (AFS), the database that retains DROS info, then theoretically there would be no problem getting those guns back.
----

While the Marketwatch piece is nice, that's not an article - that's the SAF press release: http://saf.org/viewpr-new.asp?id=403

njineermike
05-15-2012, 8:24 AM
The issue isn't any specific method of ownership proof. It's a "you're not getting these back at all" issue. I wouldn't need to provide proof of ownership for a watch or my car keys had they been confiscated. It's because the items in question are firearms and they have no intention of returning them.

Californio
05-15-2012, 8:27 AM
In regards to "proof of ownership of firearm"....Can't you just get DOJ transcript to the DROS of the firearm(s)?

When I DROSed a firearm, most FFL never gave me the form. Can't I get a list of firearms that I DROSed from DOJ?

thanks


I have a .22 rifle that my Father bought as a Christmas gift for me in 1964, it has no serial number, was not required at the time, no record except if you could find the old records from the FFL, which was also a Bicycle Shop, exist.

Is the rifle mine? Can I prove it, NO, but I have posssesed it for the last 48 years.

viet4lifeOC
05-15-2012, 8:50 AM
Don't get me wrong. I do understand that SF is doing this only because it's a FIREARM and giving the owners a HARD TIME.

So..Can I get a list of all the handguns that I've DROSed in the last 2 years (when I started)? I would like to keep it in my safe.

I have an inventory list of who I bought the handgun from, when it was DROSed, when it was picked up, make/model, and serial number.

I just want a list by DOJ so I can keep it in my safe.

When you DROSed a handgun...it's not registering the gun is it?

thanks

Kukuforguns
05-15-2012, 9:42 AM
In regards to "proof of ownership of firearm"....Can't you just get DOJ transcript to the DROS of the firearm(s)?

When I DROSed a firearm, most FFL never gave me the form. Can't I get a list of firearms that I DROSed from DOJ?

thanks

Some people may have acquired firearms legally and/or brought firearms legally into California without creating a DROS.

Librarian
05-15-2012, 5:30 PM
Don't get me wrong. I do understand that SF is doing this only because it's a FIREARM and giving the owners a HARD TIME.

So..Can I get a list of all the handguns that I've DROSed in the last 2 years (when I started)? I would like to keep it in my safe.

I have an inventory list of who I bought the handgun from, when it was DROSed, when it was picked up, make/model, and serial number.

I just want a list by DOJ so I can keep it in my safe.

You can get the list of guns CA thinks you own by sending in this form: http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/AFSPrivateCitizen.pdf?

When you DROSed a handgun...it's not registering the gun is it?

thanks
Well, if the state knows your name and address, and knows the makes, models, calibers and dates of purchase of all your handguns, would you call that registration?

I would.

Rossi357
05-16-2012, 1:08 PM
Is there a link to the complaint? Nothing to open on the docket page.

Librarian
05-16-2012, 1:14 PM
Is there a link to the complaint? Nothing to open on the docket page.

See the original thread here -- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=570442

dantodd
05-16-2012, 1:30 PM
Don't get me wrong. I do understand that SF is doing this only because it's a FIREARM and giving the owners a HARD TIME.

So..Can I get a list of all the handguns that I've DROSed in the last 2 years (when I started)? I would like to keep it in my safe.

I have an inventory list of who I bought the handgun from, when it was DROSed, when it was picked up, make/model, and serial number.

I just want a list by DOJ so I can keep it in my safe.

When you DROSed a handgun...it's not registering the gun is it?

thanks

You can but the DOJ database is known to be very unreliable. It is possible that you will find not all of your legally possessed handguns are not on the list and guns you do not own at all may show and being owned by you.

mofugly13
05-16-2012, 3:16 PM
Back when I first joined CG and found out that you can have CADOJ send you a printout of the firearms they have on record as registered to you, I did it. When I got it, it had every handgun I had bought listed, except for my Ruger 22/45 that I purchased in 1999 or so. Until recently, I was too unorganized to keep track of any firearms reciepts, so I would have no way of proving the 22/45 was mine if it was ever confiscated for any reason.

stix213
05-16-2012, 4:10 PM
I've been noticing that CGF has had its profile raised significantly over the last 2 years. From obscure organization of gun nuts to a California centric gun rights organization worthy of mention in the same paragraph as the SAF and NRA in the national media. Go team

wildhawker
05-16-2012, 5:01 PM
The reason is simple: extraordinarily generous donors, the best, most dedicated volunteers on the planet, top-shelf attorneys, and a lot of hard ****ing work.

Thank you for being a key part of this.

-Brandon

I've been noticing that CGF has had its profile raised significantly over the last 2 years. From obscure organization of gun nuts to a California centric gun rights organization worthy of mention in the same paragraph as the SAF and NRA in the national media. Go team

mag360
05-16-2012, 5:12 PM
almost time for my companys charity drive! Too bad they don't match, but chiselchsts company does....hmmm...

bussda
05-16-2012, 5:24 PM
...

Well, if the state knows your name and address, and knows the makes, models, calibers and dates of purchase of all your handguns, would you call that registration?

I would.

I agree. But the courts have ruled differently in an earlier case (Galvan?). In California, it is only recording the sale. The only registration is of "assualt weapons" and new residents via voluntary regisration. This same terminology is used on the DOJ website.

Clownpuncher
05-16-2012, 5:57 PM
When public officials can actually be prosecuted for such behavior.

I'd be happy if we could get 2a cases moved through the courts as quickly as other civil rights cases seem to move.

Librarian
05-16-2012, 6:58 PM
I agree. But the courts have ruled differently in an earlier case (Galvan?). In California, it is only recording the sale. The only registration is of "assualt weapons" and new residents via voluntary regisration. This same terminology is used on the DOJ website.

I long ago lost my ability to read DOJ's web site without a conscious effort to suspend my disbelief.

hoffmang
05-16-2012, 7:08 PM
Is there a link to the complaint? Nothing to open on the docket page.

Just a note to agree with you. Something is really odd about the RECAP entry for this docket. I'm hoping it will resolve the next time I RECAP a newly filed document.

-Gene

bwiese
05-16-2012, 7:09 PM
Can't I get a list of firearms that I DROSed from DOJ?

Yes, could be useful... but

1. Long guns (til 2014) are not recorded. There may be some audit
information for a few weeks but no details of "Mossberg 500 serial#12345"
assigned to you.

2. Even for handguns, DROS records only indicate YOU BEGAN THE PROCESS.
It does not necessarily prove you picked up the gun; DROS records are not
proof of delivery or possession.