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halifax
05-05-2007, 2:45 PM
I believe I already know the answer to this but please confirm.

Recently I was out at a favorite shooting spot when two guys show up. They took a rifle with a pistol grip out of a case and I noticed it had no magazine in it. No big deal, must be a registered "assault" rifle. One of them proceeded to charge a ten-round mag and inserted into the rifle and fired ten rounds. Here's where I notice that he used a bullet to remove the mag.

Here's my question. If that was not a registered "assault" rifle but a built-up OLL instead, isn't the shooter violating CA law by not having the mag in it when it still has evil features attached?

Please don't include the word "search" in your response. This should be a simple yes-or-no answer.

Thank you.

hoffmang
05-05-2007, 2:47 PM
No.

There are about 4 current threads that answer this exact question. I know - I've posted in all 4.

-Gene

tenpercentfirearms
05-05-2007, 2:55 PM
Simple answer: No.

halifax
05-05-2007, 2:56 PM
OK thanks

bwiese
05-05-2007, 6:05 PM
The caution about open mag wells was overconservativeness at the start of the OLL revolution.

The real concern is only whether the magazine is detachable or not: the only definition of 'detachable magazine' that is relevant is the one in 11 CCR 5469(a), which says that a mag is not detachable if it requires a tool to remove.
We thus end up with the legally-defined status of 'not detachable' still allowing the concept of 'removable'.

Such nondetachable magazines must be 10 rounds or less to prevent triggering the alternate definition of AW (one with a fixed mag holding over 10rounds).

If a semiauto centerfire rifle has no evil features (pistol grip, flash hider, telestock, etc.) then it can have a detachable magazine. MonsterMan grips do not count as pistol grips (as defined in 11 CCR 5469(d)) and therefore rifles equipped with such can have detachable magazines.

SemiAutoSam
05-05-2007, 6:08 PM
Since the Bullet Button or my original MAG-LOCKŪ and or my NEW PIN-MAG-LOCKŪ requires a tool to detach the magazine. it cannot accept a detachable magazine when the above mentions products are utilized.


From the regulations at http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter39.pdf ..

ARTICLE 2. DEFINITIONS OF TERMS USED TO IDENTIFY ASSAULT WEAPONS The following definitions apply to terms used in the identification of assault weapons pursuant to Penal Code section 12276.1: (a) "detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool. Ammunition feeding device includes any belted or linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc clips, or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.

hoffmang
05-05-2007, 6:51 PM
However, it is wise to travel with a bullet button rifle with a magazine in the well to make explaining its legality simple.

-Gene

tenpercentfirearms
05-06-2007, 9:33 AM
And if you do get stopped, don't tell them it is a Bullet Button. Just tell them it is a fixed magazine kit and you have to get a super small screw driving device down in there to unscrew the nut in order to remove the magazine. If they know it is really a Bullet Button and call you on it, then they probably have one themselves. If they don't know any better, it reduces your risk of being hauled in for having a legal rifle that the police just don't understand.

WokMaster1
05-06-2007, 10:08 AM
Speaking of BB, anyone know if anyone has been stopped/arrested with the Hesse (epoxied magazine) rifle or the $2000 "Cal legal"/ "you're all going to jail"
(God! I forgot the name) rifle?:)