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sierratangofoxtrotunion
05-05-2007, 11:23 AM
Last night I was listening to the fun times being had by the local PD on the scanner. It was a Friday night, and even with about a double shift on duty, everybody's kept busy. At one point I turned it on to hear about some guy with a shotgun in his apartment, and wouldn't come out. I'm not sure of the circumstances or why, but they had about half the department outside, hanging around. Eventually he came out and surrendered.

Anyway, as I continued to listen, the cops asked dispatch to check on the legal status of the shotgun he had. She reported back "No dealer record of sale" and it was that term that my ears perked up on. I thought DROS had to be destroyed, and that it couldn't be tracked back?

cvela
05-05-2007, 11:38 AM
YIKES!

ok, now thinking about it afterward a bit. Shouldnt that have been the proper response from dispatch for any long-gun?

anotherone
05-05-2007, 11:41 AM
Despite what the laws say about DROS I have no doubt that the state maintains huge lists of all the firearms we own. If you have lawfully purchased any type of firearm they probably know about it.

artherd
05-05-2007, 1:04 PM
I thought DROS had to be destroyed, and that it couldn't be tracked back?
Yeah, right.

FortCourageArmory
05-05-2007, 2:56 PM
What Kimbercarry said. Long guns are not serially recorded when you register them. You can register 1 to 1,000 long guns at a single setting and the state would have no clue whether they were 10/22s, Remington 700s or anything else.

thedrickel
05-05-2007, 3:01 PM
What Kimbercarry said. Long guns are not serially recorded when you register them. You can register 1 to 1,000 long guns at a single setting and the state would have no clue whether they were 10/22s, Remington 700s or anything else.

Right, until they go to audit the FFL and copy all of the info out of their bound book.

CSACANNONEER
05-05-2007, 3:09 PM
To bad the LE community (at least the dept. in question) has no idea how firearms transactions are done. I guess, to them, every longgun in this state must be illegally owned. I'm sure they don't even know that many of us legally own handguns that they can't tract because, the handguns were transfered FTF before Ca. reqiured all transfers to go through an FFL. Why can't the state require all LEOs to take a basic class on state firearm laws? Half the LEs I have delt with seem to get their "firearm law facts" from TV. Before I get bashed by the LEOs out there, I've been an employee of a county sherriff/coroner's office and my father just retired after 30+ years as a federal LEO. So, I'm not anti-LE just anti-missinformed know-it-alls that happen to have a badge.

Shane916
05-05-2007, 3:34 PM
The firearms that LE check are through AFS which only contains handguns and registered AW/.50BMG.

When going through POST a 24 hour Firearms course is required :)

Shane916
05-05-2007, 4:00 PM
Ohh yeah!! ... Students these days!! They're the worst! Especially the ones in Criminal Justice aspiring to become LE! God help em all!! :D

JALLEN
05-05-2007, 4:06 PM
Anyway, as I continued to listen, the cops asked dispatch to check on the legal status of the shotgun he had. She reported back "No dealer record of sale" and it was that term that my ears perked up on. I thought DROS had to be destroyed, and that it couldn't be tracked back?

All that might mean is that they had no record of sale for that address. The State doesn't know where the guy who bought a pistol or rifle in 1982 might be, unless he just happenss to still be at the same address. In my case, I've moved 3 or 4 times since I bought that Ruger pair.... unless the info is tied to drivers licenses somehow, or something like that.

moulton
05-05-2007, 4:11 PM
what kind of police scanner do you have? im saving up for one right now and I have been using my dad's old Ham radio to listen to the local pd's and CHP:D

1919_4_ME
05-05-2007, 5:34 PM
DOJ shreds the DROS after 30 days but the dealer keeps a record of the sale permamently until he or she gives up there liscense then there records go to the ATF for storage.If the ATF or DOJ ever wants to find out about a record of sale then they must contact the FFL and go through there 4473's.
Back to the police thing if the dispatch said there was no record of sale then that means the shotgun was purchased more than 30 days ago.If it had just been purchased then there would still be a Dros on file with the DOJ.
*Edited to add* This is what I heard,lol.

CSDGuy
05-06-2007, 1:08 AM
When going through POST a 24 hour Firearms course is required :)
That is the minimum required... If someone completes the Regular Basic Course or completes the training for Level 1 Reserve, they'll get 72 hours of Firearms/Chemical Agents training and 12 hours in "Use of Force" training. That's the minimum for RBC/L1 Reserve training and is FAR above the 24 hours you quoted...

It's ALL on the POST website.

CSACANNONEER
05-06-2007, 7:16 AM
That is the minimum required... If someone completes the Regular Basic Course or completes the training for Level 1 Reserve, they'll get 72 hours of Firearms/Chemical Agents training and 12 hours in "Use of Force" training. That's the minimum for RBC/L1 Reserve training and is FAR above the 24 hours you quoted...

It's ALL on the POST website.

OK. I really don't care how many hours of "training" someone gets. I'm more concerned with the amount and relivance of material that is covered and the amount of knowledge that must be retained by the student. I have seen many students sit through a years worth of class on any giving subject and not retain a single fact. I'm not saying that this is happening here but, the arguement that X number of hours of training means that the student learned more than another student who was only trained for X/2 hours has some serious flaws.

gunrun45
05-06-2007, 10:33 AM
The dispatcher didn't know what she was talking about. When we run guns (any guns) they come back as stolen or not stolen and handguns or AW's come back for registration. If any firearm has been taken for any reason by a LE agency, we record that info into the same database as the registration database.
That's it. No special secret vodo list of black ops security ;)

rorschach
05-06-2007, 11:48 AM
The firearms that LE check are through AFS which only contains handguns and registered AW/.50BMG.

When going through POST a 24 hour Firearms course is required :)

Unfortunately, 24 hours isnt nearly enough to aquaint a future police officer with even a fraction of the firearms laws in California.

CSDGuy
05-06-2007, 3:07 PM
Unfortunately, 24 hours isnt nearly enough to aquaint a future police officer with even a fraction of the firearms laws in California.

Which is why they're given 48 MORE hours. They're also tested on the material. They're also trained and tested in use of force and weapons violations. Then they're retested... It's all available at the POST website. One good question to really ask is just WHAT does a street cop need to know in order to do the job? The training they receive covers a lot of that. Now then, a specialized unit would train the cop to be far better in enforcing laws in that specialized area than most cops. For instance, I'd EXPECT that a cop on a gang or drug detail to be much better educated/trained about gangs or drugs than the "beat" cop.

The arguement that the student that receives more hours is going to retain the info better than a student receives the same info in less hours... doesn't fly. It's about the exposure of that student to the material and it takes time to present that material appropriately to the student. I have done some teaching. It can be very difficult to present enough information to a class as it is. To shorten that time up OR to cram more stuff into that time makes it actually counterproductive to a student's ability to learn and RETAIN that info.

The average cop isn't going to be familiar with all the nuances of firearms law. If you're lucky, you'll run into a cop who actually IS an expert in that field and that cop WILL be up on those nuances. One will detain or arrest you and let the DA sort it out. As long as you're actually "legal", the other won't. Guess which one you're more likely to run into?

Shane916
05-06-2007, 3:11 PM
Unfortunately, 24 hours isnt nearly enough to aquaint a future police officer with even a fraction of the firearms laws in California.

lol so true! Need at least a month of CA gun laws to decipher the hieroglyphics they call law :)

sierratangofoxtrotunion
05-07-2007, 5:26 PM
what kind of police scanner do you have? im saving up for one right now and I have been using my dad's old Ham radio to listen to the local pd's and CHP:D

Uuuum, it's black. And handheld. And has a rubber antenna. :D Seriously, I think it might be a Uniden. I picked it up a couple months ago at Fry's Electronics for something around like $80.

Shane916
05-07-2007, 6:52 PM
I used to have a Uniden BC250D. Worked really well and is digital capable for those departments that are switching to it.