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LOW2000
05-14-2012, 7:33 AM
Ok, say I own a home in Idaho, walk into an Idaho gun store, and purchase a pistol from them, providing all of the documents necessary to satisfy their requirements for a legal sale.

I am also a resident of CA and own a home in CA, if I want to bring that pistol (on or off roster, does it matter?) back to CA, what do I need to do?

On the OAG site, the form to be filled out is for "New" residents http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/ab991frm.pdf? which I am not, does that not matter?

Can I just bring it here, shoot it, and enjoy it without anything being done and be 100% compliant with the law?

littlejake
05-14-2012, 8:18 AM
Do you have a state issued ID card or driver's license in both states?
(Advice -- do not answer that question)

Owning a home in two states does not confer dual residency.

You are a resident of one state or another. The concept of dual residency does not exist.

Under the Real ID Act, the DMV requires disclosure of any other state's ID or driver's license when you apply for an ID or DL -- failure to disclose and forfeit is a crime. So, if your signature line is true, you do not have ID in two states.

Let us assume you are a resident of Idaho and you also own a home in CA. You can buy a gun in Idaho and bring it to CA when you're in your 2nd home -- you don't have to file any paperwork.

Do not bring any AW or >10 round magazines.

Residency is a function of a number of questions:
Who issued your ID?
Where do you vote?
To whom do you pay taxes?
What address do you put on your federal income tax form?
What state are your vehicles registered in?

Librarian
05-14-2012, 9:12 AM
Let me entirely avoid the 'how do I establish that I am a resident of more than one state' issue. It's not that the subject is uninteresting, but that it's none of my - or, in my opinion, anyone else's - business. If a state thinks you are a resident, for purposes of discussion here, that's good enough.

The answer to what do you do about guns purchased in the OTHER state of residence, not CA, is not clear. In this matter, CA seems not to have considered that multiple-state residence was possible, so it seems to have not been addressed.

I believe if you follow the no mags > 10 rounds, no CA 'assault weapons', you are free to act as if you are visiting and do nothing about registering. Otherwise, the 'new resident' form would be the logical path; that form is for registering firearms within 60 days of bringing them here, not when you yourself moved here. (Again, the logic of the new resident law fails to consider that 'moving to California' might take more than crossing the state border once.)

LOW2000
05-14-2012, 9:46 AM
This question is being asked for an acquaintance, this is an actual situation, and this person wants to know what he needs to do to follow all of the rules.

There are no 10rd/AW issues at play here, the gun is a revolver not on the safe handgun list.

The person has "purchased" the pistol already from the gun store, however the gun is on backorder.

I'm guessing that once the gun is received by the store, and they have the actual serial number with which to DROS the gun, that the gun store is going to ask for his 2 proofs of residency and he is going to be blocked from the sale at that point. He did tell the gun store that he wanted to bring it back to CA, and they mentioned something about a form on the CA website and $20 (the above linked CA Transfer form i'm assuming).

And while this is going somewhat offtopic, if he already has "residency" here in CA as well, and he had an old pistol that was non-papered and had always existed here in CA, would he be obligated to fill out one of the New Handgun Resident forms for that as well?

liketoshoot
05-14-2012, 9:58 AM
If buying a new gun in an other state and wanting to take it to Ca. he will need to have the Idaho FFL ship it to an FFL in Ca., but only if Ca. is his legal residents, if not then no issue.

I'm not a lawyer so do what you want

LOW2000
05-14-2012, 11:18 AM
Per the ATF:

Q: May a person (who is not an alien) who resides in one State and owns property in another State purchase a handgun in either State?
If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that State.

[27 CFR 478.11]


That being said, he is obeying Federal firearms laws, the question then becomes one of CA state law and how he can bring the weapon into the state, and if it needs to be registered with a New Resident Handgun form or not.

Librarian
05-14-2012, 11:23 AM
The question is, does ID think he's an ID resident?

If so, there is no reason to expect the sale in ID would be blocked. If not, I don''t understand why an ID FFL would start the sale, unless it was for delivery to a CA FFL.

If the handgun is off-Roster, he cannot have it sent to a CA FFL and have it delivered, unless he is exempt from the Roster.

And while this is going somewhat offtopic, if he already has "residency" here in CA as well, and he had an old pistol that was non-papered and had always existed here in CA, would he be obligated to fill out one of the New Handgun Resident forms for that as well? Assume, for the moment, that he legally acquired this pistol when he was a CA resident; if so, no paper needed until the handgun is transferred in CA.

Too many worms in this can ...

LOW2000
05-14-2012, 11:28 AM
The question is, does ID think he's an ID resident?

If so, there is no reason to expect the sale in ID would be blocked. If not, I don''t understand why an ID FFL would start the sale, unless it was for delivery to a CA FFL.


Its not for delivery to CA FFL, so if he is recognized as being a legal Idaho purchaser, and the sale is completed, what does he need to do if he wants to bring the gun into CA, either temporarily or permanently?

ETA: The offtopic question was completely hypothetical, I really was just thinking outloud about if that is a requirement or not...

CenterX
05-14-2012, 11:43 AM
Bring it with him and take it back when he leaves. He is not a resident of CA if he doesn't have a CA DL, vote here, and the like. He is traveling basically on vacation when in CA, ?, right? May need to look and see if there is a travel time limit in the CA gun-laws.

There are lots of retired folks that left CA to live in other states and return to visit. Even own real property in two or more states. But, CA is not the place they vote, pay taxes or have ID from. Some I know have CA ID cards with the out-of-state residence on them. Others have local CA address to cash local checks at accounts they have local. Still, DL and all residence documents are out-of-state.

Dicy - but loopy too. Does he expect to be searched at the boarder or at his home or at the range?

If he is bringing in and selling then he may get tracked via the DROSS system - not a thing I'd do.

-hanko
05-14-2012, 11:52 AM
Ok, say I own a home in Idaho, walk into an Idaho gun store, and purchase a pistol from them, providing all of the documents necessary to satisfy their requirements for a legal sale.

I am also a resident of CA and own a home in CA, if I want to bring that pistol (on or off roster, does it matter?) back to CA, what do I need to do?

On the OAG site, the form to be filled out is for "New" residents http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/ab991frm.pdf? which I am not, does that not matter?

Can I just bring it here, shoot it, and enjoy it without anything being done and be 100% compliant with the law?
Simply fly or drive the gun into CA, locked box if by car, declared if by airplane, etc.

If you are an ID resident (which you would be if you are able to buy the gun and take possession in ID), the form is not required...

hth

-hanko