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USMCM16A2
05-12-2012, 4:11 PM
Guys,



Here is a bill that could set a dangerous precedent, brought to you by that moron DeLeon. The Legislature at this point are the only ones that have power to regulate BB devices (i.e. air rifles) and imitation firearms (not bullet buttons) but this bill would give Los Angeles county the ability to put its own rules on the books.
Could this be a back door attempt at destroying state preemption over firearms laws. Legal guys chime in please, thanks ja308 for bringing this to our attention. Thanks, A2

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=sb_1315&sess=CUR&house=B&author=de_le%F3n
Original text: THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

SECTION 1. Section 53071.5 of the Government Code is amended to
read:
53071.5. (a) By the enforcement
enactment of this section, the Legislature
occupies the whole field of regulation of the manufacture, sale, or
possession of imitation firearms, as defined in subdivision (a) of
Section 16700 of the Penal Code, and that subdivision shall preempt
and be exclusive of all regulations relating to the manufacture,
sale, or possession of imitation firearms, including regulations
governing the manufacture, sale, or possession of BB devices and air
rifles described in Section 16250 of the Penal Code.
(b) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), the County of Los Angeles,
and any city within the County of Los Angeles, may enact and enforce
an ordinance or resolution regulating the manufacture, sale,
possession, or use of a spot marker gun that expels a projectile
larger than 16mm.

Current amended Text: THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

SECTION 1. Section 53071.5 of the Government Code is amended to
read:
53071.5. (a) By the enactment of this section, the Legislature
occupies the whole field of regulation of the manufacture, sale, or
possession of imitation firearms, as defined in subdivision (a) of
Section 16700 of the Penal Code, and that subdivision shall preempt
and be exclusive of all regulations relating to the manufacture,
sale, or possession of imitation firearms, including regulations
governing the manufacture, sale, or possession of BB devices and air
rifles described in Section 16250 of the Penal Code.
(b) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), the County of Los Angeles,
and any city within the County of Los Angeles, may enact and enforce
an ordinance or resolution regulating the manufacture, sale,
possession, or use of a spot marker gun that expels a projectile
larger than 16mm. that is more restrictive than state
law regulating the manufacture, sale, possession, or use
of any BB device, toy gun, replica of a firearm, or other device that
meets both of the following requirements:
(1) The device is so substantially similar in coloration and
overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a reasonable
person to perceive that the device is a firearm.
(2) The device expels a projectile that is no more than 16
millimeters in diameter.

Strikeout is text that exists and would be removed. This is in relationship to prior versions of the bill.

Italic is text added by the bill.

jaymz
05-12-2012, 4:26 PM
A link to text of the bill would be nice.

USMCM16A2
05-12-2012, 4:32 PM
Guys,




Here is a link that might help www.leginfo.ca.gov, that lists DeLeons bill. Thanks, A2

wjc
05-12-2012, 4:32 PM
Here ya' go. Google is your friend.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/sen/sb_1301-1350/sb_1315_bill_20120223_introduced.html

bwiese
05-12-2012, 5:10 PM
YES. This is the most dangerous gun bill in CA right now.

The antis want to break up state preemption.

Right now we just have to fight one entity, generally, for gunrights matters - i.e, sue the state.

The antis want to fragment that to multiply our workload by 58.

njineermike
05-12-2012, 5:25 PM
And I thought making the possession of BB gun in a car a criminal offense was a bad idea, but this is even worse.

chris
05-12-2012, 6:03 PM
YES. This is the most dangerous gun bill in CA right now.

The antis want to break up state preemption.

Right now we just have to fight one entity, generally, for gunrights matters - i.e, sue the state.

The antis want to fragment that to multiply our workload by 58.

without preemption this state will be a disaster.

USMCM16A2
05-12-2012, 6:19 PM
Guys,



The more I research the topic, i.e preemption, the more dangerous this bill becomes. LA could make airsoft,bb guns, imitation firearms illegal. This is just a start, if somehow the states preemption capacity is taken away we as Bill W pointed could be fighting on 58 fronts (local DA). It cannot be over-emphasized, somehow this bill needs to be attacked and destroyed.
Traveling from county to county with a BB gun or airsoft could become a felony. A2

GettoPhilosopher
05-12-2012, 6:38 PM
Wait, I'm confused. I get what Bill's saying; destroying preemption in any form sets a dangerous precedent. The last thing I want is LA county setting its own firearms laws.

That being said, am I misunderstanding or does this bill only affect paintball? Airsoft uses 6mm bbs, pellet guns are 4.5mm-6.35mm, etc.

CrazyPhuD
05-12-2012, 7:01 PM
Well one bonus of this if it were to pass....thank god for federal preemption at least....

Drivedabizness
05-12-2012, 7:16 PM
This bill should be part of a Federal lawsuit seeking to take away CA's right to legislate on firearms AT ALL without federal court approval. Given the egregious nature of their multiple infringements of our 2A rights, I'd love to see us with CA having to get Fed approval before they do ANYTHING that a reasonable person might conclude limit our 2A rights on any way.

Lacunacraft
05-12-2012, 7:33 PM
I understand the threat, but i don't see how this passes without getting immediately slapped down in court. Doesn't the state automatically have preemption over any county within the state? Just like the federal government has preemption over the states in certain areas?

GOEX FFF
05-12-2012, 7:38 PM
Hasn't Ole' Kevin got smacked down on all of his bills within the past year or so?
Even though some passed, they never became law. This Dolt never gives up.

AB962
SB427
SB124
SB798

SanPedroShooter
05-12-2012, 7:39 PM
Doesnt the city of LA already violate pre-emption? Ammo purchase fingerprint req's and a de facto mail order ban, no FFL sales of sub compact pistols or their holsters....

There is probably some stuff I am forgetting, since most people in LA just ignore these law anyway... I just put down 'San Pedro' instead of Los Angeles and order ammo all the time.

I always assumed they were in violation of state pre-emption, they just didnt care, and no one was going to call them on it.

SanPedroShooter
05-12-2012, 7:42 PM
Hasn't Ole' Kevin got smacked down on all of his bills within the past year or so?
Even though some passed, they never became law. This Dolt never gives up.

AB962
SB427
SB124
SB798

This is a good point. He will have the full support of the Tony Villar, the city council, the COP and of course the police union goon squad.

Did he have the same support for all his other dead bills? Or was that just windmill tilting?

Librarian
05-12-2012, 7:54 PM
I understand the threat, but i don't see how this passes without getting immediately slapped down in court. Doesn't the state automatically have preemption over any county within the state? Just like the federal government has preemption over the states in certain areas?

With existing state law, yes. What this bill would do is change existing law to add an exception.

Librarian
05-12-2012, 7:56 PM
Doesnt the city of LA already violate pre-emption? Ammo purchase fingerprint req's and a de facto mail order ban, no FFL sales of sub compact pistols or their holsters....

There is probably some stuff I am forgetting, since most people in LA just ignore these law anyway... I just put down 'San Pedro' instead of Los Angeles and order ammo all the time.

I always assumed they were in violation of state pre-emption, they just didnt care, and no one was going to call them on it.

Pre-emption on actual firearms is pretty narrow (though a little bigger than the black letter law via the suit against SF). See the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/State_Preemption_of_Some_Gun_Regulation

USMCM16A2
05-12-2012, 8:45 PM
Librarian,



Thank you for clarifying my post, but I am still a bit confused. How big a danger is DeLeons bill to preemption?. I read your wiki, and it is pretty clear as to what state preemption covers. But is there anything in this bill that represents a chance that counties can start making their own AW Bans and so on?. Thank You A2

wurger
05-12-2012, 9:05 PM
Man, I detest DeLeon. He's after both of my hobbies, guns and airsoft.

This bill is another example of people with similar interests not sticking together. The paintball lobby threw airsoft under the bus on DeLeon's bill last year, and it looks like he is still making them happy. A typical paintball is 17mm in diameter. So LA can't restrict an realistic imitation firearm paintball marker, but could ban an airsoft gun.

More stupid, inconsistent, irrational laws. Last time I checked, the only people killed by airsoft guns were idiots who pointed them at LEOs. Sounds kind of like natural selection at work to me.

Librarian
05-12-2012, 10:16 PM
Librarian,



Thank you for clarifying my post, but I am still a bit confused. How big a danger is DeLeons bill to preemption?. I read your wiki, and it is pretty clear as to what state preemption covers. But is there anything in this bill that represents a chance that counties can start making their own AW Bans and so on?. Thank You A2

That's harder to call.

The 'imitation firearm' language in Government Code is the stronger of the two, in terms of what it covers and intentional language.

Adding an exception for some local government might be taken as indicative that weakening the 'real firearms' language would also be acceptable. That looks to me to be harder - the arguments in Fiscal v. City and County of San Francisco (http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=10313407778878388943) on what the state preempts suggest the legislature would have to do something really different to the Government Code, with legislative intent part of the statute, to get that change to fly.

It isn't out of the question, though.

No new bills can be introduced this session; however, the legislature can gut an existing bill and amend it to cover new content.

I just used your post as the basis for the thread on the bill; thanks for posting it.

kcbrown
05-12-2012, 10:34 PM
YES. This is the most dangerous gun bill in CA right now.

The antis want to break up state preemption.

Right now we just have to fight one entity, generally, for gunrights matters - i.e, sue the state.

The antis want to fragment that to multiply our workload by 58.

That's why this, or something with essentially the same effect, will pass, either now or in a (very) near future session.

The antis aren't as stupid as some here think. It is pretty much guaranteed that they will pass law(s) making it possible for localities to regulate firearms more strictly than does state law, thereby making state restrictions a floor.

Wrangler John
05-13-2012, 6:04 AM
Guys,



Here is a bill that could set a dangerous precedent, brought to you by that moron DeLeon. The Legislature at this point are the only ones that have power to regulate BB devices (i.e. air rifles) and imitation firearms (not bullet buttons) but this bill would give Los Angeles county the ability to put its own rules on the books.
Could this be a back door attempt at destroying state preemption over firearms laws. Legal guys chime in please, thanks ja308 for bringing this to our attention. Thanks, A2

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=sb_1315&sess=CUR&house=B&author=de_le%F3n
Original text:

Current amended Text: Strikeout is text that exists and would be removed. This is in relationship to prior versions of the bill.

Italic is text added by the bill.

In the above post, USMCM16A2;8567760, Senator DeLeon is labeled a moron. However, we should examine the connotation of the word "Moron".

At one time in history, mentally challenged individuals were labeled according to the degree of their mental and moral deficit. The classifications were:

The Idiot possessed an I.Q. between 0-25, the Imbecile an I.Q. between 26-50, and the Moron between 51-70. Everyone above the I.Q. of 70 was considered qualified for Congressional membership and could serve as Governor of California, Oklahoma, New York or Massachusetts. These were actual terms of medical science, and were mentioned by SCOTUS Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes in the Buck vs Bell (1927) decision regarding forced sterilization of the mentally defective. Thus, using these terms is not solely descent into name calling, but a discussion of the relative mental faculties of the individual; the subjective becomes an objective assessment.

Now comes the question: Should our esteemed friend DeLeon remain at the relatively high functioning level attributed to the Moron, or should he be reassessed due to his performance to a lower category? :)

USMCM16A2
05-13-2012, 6:33 AM
WranglerJohn,



I both sit and stand corrected, in saying that Deleon is a moron. He has been given far to much credit in my summing up of his capabilities. He is a true idiot. Great reply,LMAO. A2 :D :D :D

ja308
05-13-2012, 9:02 AM
A politician does what his /her constituants want .

Obviously californians like what is being done ,these same people keep getting elected.

I get confused when i hear of a democrat wanting to move to another state .
If I were a democrat , I would literally dance in the street with advances my party has made at all important levels .
Added to that ,some really nice people ,a great climate, and tolerance for everything but RKBA .

No hard feeling's we get the govt we vote for.

USMCM16A2
05-13-2012, 10:36 AM
ja308,



I could not agree with you more, it is the political climate in the state. Libs want libs in office, I remember when California was a Conservative state had money, jobs, and a strong respect for the 2A. Since those of us who are friends of the 2A are outnumbered by those who would take our Rights away.
This is now taken on the elements of Civil Rights struggle.
We have people in power that supposedly represent the majority, who are trying to destroy our freedoms. And this must be met with all the legal firepower we can muster, A2

wjc
05-13-2012, 5:58 PM
Irregardless, this is still an anti-gun ban. I personally think DeLeon is a dolt but that doesn't matter.

Call your reps and let's get some action on this!

BTW, thanks for calling our attention to this USMCM16A2..I had not heard of this bill!

nicki
05-13-2012, 6:01 PM
Seems to me that airsoft, bb guns and other non firearms type guns are commonly used as training tools versus real guns.

As such, perhaps such tools are constitutionally protected.


L
It is obvious that DeLeon hasn't heard of Ezel

wjc
05-13-2012, 6:06 PM
Seems to me that airsoft, bb guns and other non firearms type guns are commonly used as training tools versus real guns.

As such, perhaps such tools are constitutionally protected.


L
It is obvious that DeLeon hasn't heard of Ezel

I don't think he cares about that. Last time I watched him argue an anti-gun bill he was using the "I'm a Latino from a poor area and I know guns are bad" position.

He's basically trying to ban guns.

scarville
05-13-2012, 6:45 PM
I don't think he cares about that. Last time I watched him argue an anti-gun bill he was using the "I'm a Latino from a poor area and I know guns are bad" position.
That explains a lot. Bet his parents fed him the paint off the walls...

He's basically trying to ban guns.
For the law-abiding.

ja308
05-13-2012, 7:02 PM
When deleon is termed out ,his loyalty to the democratic party ideal's will earn him a nice cushy appointment to some commission.
Willy Brown got his .

failing that ,the Joyce foundation (Obama's one time employer) has a few perks awaiting this guy .
A state budget of around 100 billion leaves lots of room to reward favors .

I agree ,we should get 2A lawyers to look at all these attacks on law abiding gun owners .
Kids start with bb guns deleon and his democratic party know this.

njineermike
05-13-2012, 7:35 PM
So where are the usual "I don't vote single issue" apologists now?

LARRYPIRRONE1
05-14-2012, 6:44 AM
one city after another will fall. It will create a hodgpodge of regs that no one can navigte. This is precisely why state preemption was established by the legislature back in the 80's. Since it was established by the legislature it can be repealed by the legislature. Pretty difficult to fight it in court i imagine.

De Leon has spent a lot of effort on "imitaiton firearms" trying to wrap BB guns and air rifles into that definition. He and the anti's recognise that bb guns and air rifles (and now airsioft) is the gateway for kids to eventually get into firearms. Kill off bb guns and pellet guns and in one generation you have created the ambivalance that will allow the gutting of the 2nd amenment. We are one generation away from kissing 2A goodbye.

ja308
05-14-2012, 7:35 AM
So where are the usual "I don't vote single issue" apologists now?

They are in "off topic lounge "bashing Romney and talking about the 12 or so anti gun bills signed by republicans after being passed by a democratic legislature/senate. Some of their examples go back nearly 50 years (mulford act)

I am beginning to believe these folks are democratic hacks lurking in cal-guns to disrupt any attempt to change the anti gun democratic majority .
Yeah this includes our rocket science friends who bought into George Soros 'Libertarian party "

njineermike
05-14-2012, 7:38 AM
They are in "off topic lounge "bashing Romney and talking about the 12 or so anti gun bills signed by republicans after being passed by a democratic legislature/senate. Some of their examples go back nearly 50 years (mulford act)

I am beginning to believe these folks are democratic hacks lurking in cal-guns to disrupt any attempt to change the anti gun democratic majority .
Yeah this includes our rocket science friends who bought into George Soros 'Libertarian party "

You're just NOW believing that? Welcome to the party. :)

Fate
05-14-2012, 8:11 AM
Now comes the question: Should our esteemed friend DeLeon remain at the relatively high functioning level attributed to the Moron, or should he be reassessed due to his performance to a lower category? :)

DeLeon is non-sentient pond scum. I despise that guy and everything he stands for.

SilverTauron
05-14-2012, 8:23 AM
State preemption is the cornerstone to recognition of the 2nd Amendment.Without it,even a 'shall issue' ccw system won't work.You may be able to get a state sanctioned permit to carry,but it won't do a lick of good should the local authorities pass their own gun ban.That's the biggest difference between Illinois and California:indeed IL doesn't have ccw at all,but that's no different than a may issue system that's perverted into No Issue as it is in large parts of CA.Looking long term,that's what the Disarmament Lobby wants:you can buy a gun and get a CCW,but without preemtion it won't be legal to take that firearm out your front door.

I wouldn't rely on a federal preemtion statute either.New York State DAs allegedly have policy to charge any traveller with a firearm who doesnt posses a local state ownership permit,FOPA be da**ed.

loather
05-14-2012, 11:42 AM
without preemption this state will be a disaster.

This state is a disaster with pre-emption. At least it's a disaster we can manage.



On a related note: What makes Los Angeles so special? If you're going to have an exemption, might as well make it a global exception. Can't LA just fall off into the sea? (I joke).

Fyathyrio
05-14-2012, 1:45 PM
...He and the anti's recognise that bb guns and air rifles (and now airsioft) is the gateway for kids to eventually get into firearms. Kill off bb guns and pellet guns and in one generation you have created the ambivalance that will allow the gutting of the 2nd amenment. We are one generation away from kissing 2A goodbye.

You're forgetting all the fun they are having using the "real" thing in their video games. I'd surmise significantly more kids are learning about the subtle differences between an M-16 and M-4 via Xbox then pellet guns.

Tyson
05-14-2012, 4:02 PM
This bill should be part of a Federal lawsuit seeking to take away CA's right to legislate on firearms AT ALL without federal court approval. Given the egregious nature of their multiple infringements of our 2A rights, I'd love to see us with CA having to get Fed approval before they do ANYTHING that a reasonable person might conclude limit our 2A rights on any way.


F*** yeah! This!

huntercf
05-14-2012, 10:04 PM
In the above post, USMCM16A2;8567760, Senator DeLeon is labeled a moron. However, we should examine the connotation of the word "Moron".

At one time in history, mentally challenged individuals were labeled according to the degree of their mental and moral deficit. The classifications were:

The Idiot possessed an I.Q. between 0-25, the Imbecile an I.Q. between 26-50, and the Moron between 51-70. Everyone above the I.Q. of 70 was considered qualified for Congressional membership and could serve as Governor of California, Oklahoma, New York or Massachusetts. These were actual terms of medical science, and were mentioned by SCOTUS Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes in the Buck vs Bell (1927) decision regarding forced sterilization of the mentally defective. Thus, using these terms is not solely descent into name calling, but a discussion of the relative mental faculties of the individual; the subjective becomes an objective assessment.

Now comes the question: Should our esteemed friend DeLeon remain at the relatively high functioning level attributed to the Moron, or should he be reassessed due to his performance to a lower category? :)

Well said, downgrade him to idiot. How long before this cancer is termed out?

donw
05-15-2012, 7:42 AM
Doesnt the city of LA already violate pre-emption? Ammo purchase fingerprint req's and a de facto mail order ban, no FFL sales of sub compact pistols or their holsters....

There is probably some stuff I am forgetting, since most people in LA just ignore these law anyway... I just put down 'San Pedro' instead of Los Angeles and order ammo all the time.

I always assumed they were in violation of state pre-emption, they just didnt care, and no one was going to call them on it.

this is an open practice among legislative entities at all levels: "Hey, we'll try it, if we get away without being challenged...we're home free."

the Constitution is a historical, wooden, sailing ship as far as they're concerned. :(

glockman19
05-15-2012, 7:53 AM
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IMITATION FIREARMS...
It has to do with the arrogant Politicians who have no respect for state law.

Imagine if every county had different laws across the state? just crossing county lines would criminalize most Californians.

DeLeon has the dumbest constituents I've seen second only to Maxine Watters...Thank god she's retiring...but again teh corruption in politics...what happened to her Ethics Violations? That said...What can we do about Richard "liar" Alarcon.

Alarcon, DeLeon, Bacca, Calderon, Molina, Padilla, Ammiano, Cedillo, Fuentes, Hernandez, Lara, Perez, Portantino, Solario...

All salute California's Mexican Maffia...

The ones that want to drastically change our state's laws to allow undocumented immigrants, disregard 2A rights and basicall so whatever they want...Don't like the law...change it.

donw
05-15-2012, 7:59 AM
WranglerJohn,



I both sit and stand corrected, in saying that Deleon is a moron. He has been given far to much credit in my summing up of his capabilities. He is a true idiot. Great reply,LMAO. A2 :D :D :D

my sentiments exactly! :D:D:D:

BobB35
05-16-2012, 6:37 AM
Just another reason to spin both SoCal - south of the Grapevine and SF off into their own utopian hellholes. If those clowns want to pass stupid laws let them...the rest of us just what to be left alone....

Wherryj
05-17-2012, 7:38 AM
YES. This is the most dangerous gun bill in CA right now.

The antis want to break up state preemption.

Right now we just have to fight one entity, generally, for gunrights matters - i.e, sue the state.

The antis want to fragment that to multiply our workload by 58.

It's not only an effort to fragment the laws to multiply the workload for civil rights groups, it is also a clear effort to ensnare honest, law-abiding citizens with a virtual patchwork of laws that vary from city to city. Just how in the Hell is anyone supposed to know the huge number of mostly insane laws on the books already without multiplying that job by the number of counties-and possibly even the number of cities-in the state?

This is an opening that could make something perfectly legal in the central valley and a felony along the coasts. Our law makers have absolutely lost focus on their responsibilities. They are NOT there to try to make criminals out of honest people. They are there to write the minimum number of laws required to promote safety and reduce chaos.

Wherryj
05-17-2012, 7:40 AM
This bill should be part of a Federal lawsuit seeking to take away CA's right to legislate on firearms AT ALL without federal court approval. Given the egregious nature of their multiple infringements of our 2A rights, I'd love to see us with CA having to get Fed approval before they do ANYTHING that a reasonable person might conclude limit our 2A rights on any way.

This doesn't go far enough. I want a CA bill that takes away the right of California legislators to write laws in the state. It could only improve things.

Wherryj
05-17-2012, 7:53 AM
This state is a disaster with pre-emption. At least it's a disaster we can manage.



On a related note: What makes Los Angeles so special? If you're going to have an exemption, might as well make it a global exception. Can't LA just fall off into the sea? (I joke).

I think that LA is trying very hard to end its tourism. They have a law that allows a $1000 fine for throwing anything other than a beach ball on the beach (frisbee, football, etc.) and for digging a hole in the sand over a certain depth on their county beaches.

How are tourists supposed to know about these "special" (as in "short bus special) laws? The more people that get hit with this crap, the fewer will want to risk charges or fines by stepping foot there.

I hope that the LA businesses are paying attention. This WILL affect their bottom line.

HBrebel
05-17-2012, 7:55 AM
can we get a mob to go to this clowns house for a good old tar and feather party?

njineermike
05-17-2012, 8:30 AM
This doesn't go far enough. I want a CA bill that takes away the right of California legislators to write laws in the state. It could only improve things.

I'm voting for ^^this^^ guy in the next election



can we get a mob to go to this clowns house for a good old tar and feather party?

Too good for him. Public flogging before the tar and feathering.

ALSystems
05-18-2012, 8:55 AM
can we get a mob to go to this clowns house for a good old tar and feather party?
Just make sure the tar is heated first. Then we can put him out as a warning statute to other such politicians. :rolleyes:

HBrebel
05-18-2012, 2:22 PM
I'm voting for ^^this^^ guy in the next election





Too good for him. Public flogging before the tar and feathering.

how about the stocks. That way we can all walk by and spit on him or throw rotten fruit in his face.

HBrebel
05-18-2012, 2:26 PM
If only this were the 1770s. We could have him in a stock in the middle of town. That way he can be accessible to his constituents instead of just sitting around trying to pass laws that help him keep his pathetic little pecker up.

Cylarz
05-24-2012, 12:45 AM
Doesnt the city of LA already violate pre-emption? Ammo purchase fingerprint req's and a de facto mail order ban, no FFL sales of sub compact pistols or their holsters....

There is probably some stuff I am forgetting, since most people in LA just ignore these law anyway... I just put down 'San Pedro' instead of Los Angeles and order ammo all the time.

I always assumed they were in violation of state pre-emption, they just didnt care, and no one was going to call them on it.

Good question. Yolo, Napa and Ventura Counties and the cities of Oakland, SF and Sacramento have similar policies.

I always wondered - how in the heck does the ammo seller know which county you live in? It's not part of your shipping address, so do they actually go look it up if they see you live in California? Because of the patchwork of laws, many of them simply refuse to do business with us outright. I love telling them that it's perfectly legal to sell me ammunition since I don't live in any of those areas, and have them not believe me or simply ignore me...but I suppose that's a separate complaint.

I do know we're not the only state which contains such municipal-level restrictions on ammo sales and other related items.

Cylarz
05-24-2012, 12:56 AM
DeLeon has the dumbest constituents I've seen second only to Maxine Watters...


He ran unopposed in his bid for Senate. Literally walked over from the state Assembly after his constituents rubber-stamped what was already a sure thing. You'd think they could have at least dug up someone to challenge him for the Democrat nomination or (gasp) found a Republican willing to at least run against him and spend a little money campaigning.




Alarcon, DeLeon, Bacca, Calderon, Molina, Padilla, Ammiano, Cedillo, Fuentes, Hernandez, Lara, Perez, Portantino, Solario...


The fact that you can recite this list, illustrates why DeLeon being term-limited out isn't going to solve our problems with the anti's. For much of this week most of the 2nd Amend threads have been about Sen Leland Yee.

Don't like the law...change it.

Actually in California's case it seems to be: "Don't like the law? Ignore it, until some citizens' group sues your government, and then waste a bunch of their money defending yourself in court."

GOEX FFF
05-24-2012, 1:32 AM
Good question. Yolo, Napa and Ventura Counties and the cities of Oakland, SF and Sacramento have similar policies.

I always wondered - how in the heck does the ammo seller know which county you live in? It's not part of your shipping address, so do they actually go look it up if they see you live in California? Because of the patchwork of laws, many of them simply refuse to do business with us outright. I love telling them that it's perfectly legal to sell me ammunition since I don't live in any of those areas, and have them not believe me or simply ignore me...but I suppose that's a separate complaint.

I do know we're not the only state which contains such municipal-level restrictions on ammo sales and other related items.

False...

Ventura has NO ban/policy on shipping ammunition to the county.
Just because some places like Cheaper Than Dirt or Sportsmans Guide says it does, they are flat wrong.

Read this thread -

http://www.mobile.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=425769

scarville
05-24-2012, 5:57 AM
I always wondered - how in the heck does the ammo seller know which county you live in? It's not part of your shipping address, so do they actually go look it up if they see you live in California

The USPS address database has county code information and there are online look up forms to access parts of it. Go here :

http://www.melissadata.com/lookups/ZipCityPhone.asp

and put in your zip code.

nic
05-24-2012, 2:44 PM
This state is a disaster with pre-emption. At least it's a disaster we can manage.



On a related note: What makes Los Angeles so special? If you're going to have an exemption, might as well make it a global exception. Can't LA just fall off into the sea? (I joke).

Learn to swim, see ya down in Arizona Bay!

GW
05-24-2012, 4:28 PM
Come on guys. Time to cough up another donation to the CalGuns foundation.

Davisje011
06-19-2012, 10:58 AM
http://www.facebook.com/pages/No-On-California-SB-798/220859654597216

The last step for this to pass, the Assembly Public Safety Commitee is due to meet on this June 26th.

It is extremely frustrating to see my city and held by the balls by a few individuals.

Pure ignorance and partisanism drives this bill to fruition.

There are 2 Reps and 4 Dems on this commitee.

the only reason 798 did not pass is because 2 people did not show up.

Now, all they need is one dem not to show up, as there is one less member this time.

I also worry about the fact that this bill is to grant discretionary powers to the city and county of la regarding bb devices, which means that they can set the penalty to whatever they like. I can just imagine the poor truck driver who will spend time in jail for cargo he did not even know was illegal.

Librarian
06-19-2012, 11:24 AM
http://www.facebook.com/pages/No-On-California-SB-798/220859654597216

The last step for this to pass, the Assembly Public Safety Commitee is due to meet on this June 26th.



NOT the last step: needs to pass Public Safety, then Appropriations (not that that one is much of a barrier) then Assembly Floor; if any changes, must go back to the Senate for concurrence on those, and then to the Governor.

redhead
06-26-2012, 5:57 AM
Hearing in Public Safety today. I'm sorry I haven't paid more attention to this. I have to leave in a few minutes and won't be able to make any phone calls until early this afternoon. I'll have to follow this more closely and do the phone calls, faxes, etc. This thing needs to die.

Davisje011
06-26-2012, 9:28 PM
SB 1315 (de Leon) Imitation firearms: regulation: County of Los Angeles failed to pass out of the Assembly Public Safety Committee today.

curtisfong
06-26-2012, 9:40 PM
finally, some good news.

njineermike
06-27-2012, 4:07 AM
Wait. Something sensible happened in Sacramento? I must be an alternate universe and just not realize it.

redhead
06-27-2012, 6:48 AM
Well, good. I hope this one doesn't resurrect.

donw
06-27-2012, 8:05 AM
something that has become very alarming over the last few years, in particular, is the brazenness of city councils, county and state entities, to assert their power, is they are willing to say "Screw you...we're gonna do what we want." whether it's constitutional or not.

if they go unchallenged...it then becomes case law and very hard to strike down.

stop light cameras are a good example; how many places use them even though courts have ruled them unconstitutional? the city of temecula is one.. San Diego another.

i remember the sdpd chief saying that "The traffic light camera is a good enforcement tool; we'll keep on using them."

so basically...they don't care what you think, say or do, or whether it's constitutional or not...it's a POWER play and they will KILL you to enforce it.

RazzB7
06-27-2012, 8:21 AM
I'm very happy this idiot's bill didn't make it out of committee. This legislation was probably a bigger threat to gun owners than Yee's SB249 although it didn't look like it on the surface. On the surface it was just a silly little airsoft bill, right? Why should we worry about those mall ninja airsofters?

One word: pre-emption

JSolie
06-28-2012, 12:20 PM
Am I reading this correctly in that this could be re-heard by the committee on July 3? (Interesting that's the same date as they might hear about SB249)

LARRYPIRRONE1
06-28-2012, 7:28 PM
this will be re-heard. It did not pass because enough Dems were not present. This committe is dominatd by Dems. hopefully some dems will be absent again. If it passes it goes to the assembly floor. hopefull it will stop there.

for interesting reading see the legislative analysts take on it. Here is a link i hope works
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/sen/sb_1301-1350/sb_1315_cfa_20120625_104002_asm_comm.html.

in spite of obvious issues the Dems will still vote for it.

Wherryj
07-06-2012, 7:40 AM
something that has become very alarming over the last few years, in particular, is the brazenness of city councils, county and state entities, to assert their power, is they are willing to say "Screw you...we're gonna do what we want." whether it's constitutional or not.

if they go unchallenged...it then becomes case law and very hard to strike down.

stop light cameras are a good example; how many places use them even though courts have ruled them unconstitutional? the city of temecula is one.. San Diego another.

i remember the sdpd chief saying that "The traffic light camera is a good enforcement tool; we'll keep on using them."

so basically...they don't care what you think, say or do, or whether it's constitutional or not...it's a POWER play and they will KILL you to enforce it.

I have an even better example. Traffic enforcement via airplane has been determined to be an "unlawful speed trap" in CA.
40801:
No peace officer or other person shall use a speed trap in arresting, or participating or assisting in the arrest of, any person for any alleged violation of this code nor shall any speed trap be used in securing evidence as to the speed of any vehicle for the purpose of an arrest or prosecution under this code.

40802 A "speed trap" is either of the following:
(a) A particular section of a highway measured as to distance and with boundaries marked, designated, or otherwise determined in order that the speed of a vehicle may be calculated by securing the time it takes the vehicle to travel the known distance.

The ONLY way that an airplane can determine your speed is with sections of the highway having been measures at to distance and the speed calculated by the time.
However, nearly EVERY city I pass through has at least one "enforced by air" sign. I-5 makes a TON of money off the trap.

Our politicians and agencies have NO respect for the Constitution OR any of the laws that they themselves have written.


http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd17c3a1.htm
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d17/vc40801.htm
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d17/vc40802.htm

RRangel
07-06-2012, 8:52 AM
On Tuesday July 3, the California Assembly Public Safety Committee passed SB 1315 in a 4 to 2 vote. It is now expected to go on to the Assembly Floor.

tuolumnejim
07-06-2012, 9:09 AM
ja308,



I could not agree with you more, it is the political climate in the state. Libs want libs in office, I remember when California was a Conservative state had money, jobs, and a strong respect for the 2A. Since those of us who are friends of the 2A are outnumbered by those who would take our Rights away.
This is now taken on the elements of Civil Rights struggle.
We have people in power that supposedly represent the majority, who are trying to destroy our freedoms. And this must be met with all the legal firepower we can muster, A2
So do I and I miss it dearly, with the current crop of power hungry commies in this State I fear it's done.

Donk310
07-06-2012, 9:13 AM
Doesnt the city of LA already violate pre-emption? Ammo purchase fingerprint req's and a de facto mail order ban, no FFL sales of sub compact pistols or their holsters....

There is probably some stuff I am forgetting, since most people in LA just ignore these law anyway... I just put down 'San Pedro' instead of Los Angeles and order ammo all the time.

I always assumed they were in violation of state pre-emption, they just didnt care, and no one was going to call them on it.


HAHA.. I do the same thing. Just use my community instead of the actual city. I mail order ammo all the time.