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1010
05-10-2012, 9:11 PM
I can borrow a semi auto 22 but it's a fixed mag. Could I still participate in appleseed and possibly get the badge?

ironpete
05-10-2012, 10:56 PM
Appleseed is a "run what ya' brung" marksmanship clinic.

We want you to be proficient with your rifle.

We'll work with you and your equipment to get the fundamentals down. It isn't an equipment race. If you master the fundaments you should be able to shoot a 4MOA group with any rack grade rifle and surplus ammunition.

That said our testing standard has timed stages with specific challenges (mag changes, multiple targets and fundamental shooting positions). If you can score a 210 or higher out of 250 within the rules we would award you a Rifleman's patch.

I've seen people do it with bolt actions, mag fed, tube fed, rimfire, centerfire almost any combination you can think of. Heck one guy was able to do it with a single shot bolt action rifle! It isn't about the equipment, it is about the shooter.

I'm excited to get you up and shooting on your rifle. If you don't have one you can request a loaner from the "Shoot Boss" who will be running the shoot (information available when you sign up).

You expressed an interest in using a friend's rifle. Do you have the make and model of the rifle available?

-Peter

pennys dad
05-12-2012, 7:09 AM
1010, you can also, if you are not comfortable borrowing the rifle from your friend, ask the Shoot Boss if their will be an extra rifle you could use. If you do decide to ask, give the Shoot Boss a few weeks notice to be prepared.

thedrifter
05-12-2012, 12:31 PM
Ive shot with a single shot before, i dont recommend it but it can be done

how many rounds does the tube fed hold? 10?

1010
05-16-2012, 7:28 AM
Browning semi auto 22. Knock off, looks like this

http://www.advantagetradingpost.com/images/catalog/category100.jpg



You expressed an interest in using a friend's rifle. Do you have the make and model of the rifle available?

-Peter

1010
05-16-2012, 7:29 AM
I think it is 11 rounds + 1

Ive shot with a single shot before, i dont recommend it but it can be done

how many rounds does the tube fed hold? 10?

ironpete
05-16-2012, 8:47 AM
Nice, Browning SA22...I've always wanted one.

A true JMB design, takedown, tube mag, bottom ejecting. I borrowed one from a friend once and was spoiled.

10 round magazine will make things a little more difficult but not terribly so.

My recommendation:
Since it isn't your rifle anyway I would suggest just borrowing one from the Shoot Boss. Wherever you can I strongly suggest taking people up on borrowing equipment. When you go to purchase your own rifle or if people ask you your opinion you at least have some experience.

Hope you have a great experience at your first Appleseed!

-Peter

SoCal Gunner
05-21-2012, 7:29 PM
OK, after hearing about timed events, mag changes, etc., let me pose this question: If you had to choose between a Sig 522 semi-auto and a CZ-USA 455 series bolt action, which would you choose and why?

as_rocketman
05-21-2012, 9:12 PM
I'd pick the one that fit me better. If fit was the same, then I'd pick the one that I was more likely to use at the range, hunting, whatever.

If the Sig has a good swivel for a loop sling, the stock fits well, you can get a good cheek weld, and you're happy with the sights, use it.

The only real hurdle with a bolt-action is that you break position with each shot, making it harder to find and keep your NPOA (something we'll teach you about in the class). However, I've handed out patches to bolt-gunners before. Even to a couple of single shot bolt-gunners.

I've also shot our course of fire with an M1917 Enfield, and didn't have any problems. It's the rifleman, not the rifle.

ironpete
05-21-2012, 9:30 PM
+1 ^^^ what he said
==============
Disclaimer: I'm not trying to be a wise guy

Answer: Either

The point of the clinic is fundamental marksmanship skills. Those skills apply to ALL rifles at ALL times. There are those who would short themselves and turn this into an equipment race. In the end, if you can only shoot well with that very specific piece of equipment you've missed the point of ALL rifles at ALL times. Are you doing this to get a silly patch or to become a skilled marksman?

Of course you do have to start somewhere. Both of the rifles you picked have some inherent advantages and challenges.
Sig: semi-auto, mags don't drop free, bolt release difficult to use slung up.
CZ: Bolty smoothness, bolt action, short sight radius.
I've seen both used to great effect at an Appleseed.

Again, I'm not trying to be a smarty pants. Now that I have some basis in the fundamentals I practice with my bolt actions as well as my semi-autos. In fact I'm going to (for the first time) try to apply my skills to using an 1944 M1 carbine to shoot full distance AQTs (at the actual 100, 200, 300 and 400 yard distances) because there are those who say it can't be done.

Realize that we WANT you to be proficient with your rifle. We have special offers like the Rifleman's Opportunity Card (ROC). For the price of a $20 membership to our organization we'll waive our instructional fees and you can attend any event (at the literally 100s across the nation) for free until you earn that expert qualification on an AQT or a year has elapsed. A year's worth of training for $20...most probably you'll get it before then.

The bigger question is which would you like to be proficient with first?

-Peter

SoCal Gunner
05-22-2012, 5:43 AM
Well ironpete, unlike as_rocketman, you do come off as a smarty pants. My question was a genuine one and at no time did I make it about an "equipment race". I didn't name any fantasy rifle set ups or exhorbinant rifle/equipment costs.

Perhaps I should have asked bolt or semi-auto? Even so, that would not reflect the AR styling of the Sig522. So hoping to draw from the knowledge of CalGunners and Appleseeders, I specifically asked about the two common .22s from which I have to choose from, should I attend an event.

ironpete
05-22-2012, 7:01 AM
Well, I'm sorry you took it that way. My comments were generic so that anybody reading this will understand as in my first reply we'll, "run what ya' brung". There is no best choice for a rifle.

Also the list of advantages and challenges for the rifles you listed are what I've seen on the line. If I didn't answer your question I apologize.

To answer your question directly:
If you had to choose between a Sig 522 semi-auto and a CZ-USA 455 series bolt action, which would you choose and why?
I would choose the CZ. I like CZ rifles and would like to be proficient with a stock bolt-action rifle.

To answer your next question directly:
Perhaps I should have asked bolt or semi-auto?
Semi-auto: bolt requires lots of focus and concentration. A semi-auto will free you up to concentrate more between shots.

Have fun at your first shoot!

-Peter

Mofo-Kang
05-22-2012, 7:51 AM
I would most likely br bringing an M1 carbine as well...either that or an Enfield, and the ammo for that might be a little too expensive. Lol

ironpete
05-22-2012, 10:36 AM
If you want to use your centerfires I love hearing them on the line. If it is cost prohibitive because of ammo I've seen shooters do Saturday with their .22lr or a loaner so they get lots of practice in on the cheap. On Sunday they switch to their centerfire for the whole day or at least a couple of strings of fire. It is always good to have a backup so a broken ejector or stripped sight screw doesn't ruin your whole weekend.