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PIRATE14
05-02-2007, 7:28 PM
Someone explain bail to me.........

Can't we get 360 guys to put in a 100 bucks ea for 36,000 to get him out of the gray bar saloon........

Being in JAIL sucks.......as long as he shows.....don't you get your money back???????

:D

Liberty1
05-02-2007, 7:33 PM
Someone explain bail to me.........

Can't we get 360 guys to put in a 100 bucks ea for 36,000 to get him out of the gray bar saloon........

Being in JAIL sucks.......as long as he shows.....don't you get your money back???????

:D

Not generally. The 10% is the bondsman's profit for risking the $365,000. Now if we got 360 guys and gals to put in 1000 each then we would get all that back.

1919_4_ME
05-02-2007, 7:36 PM
Well if he cant make bail how long does he have to sit in jail for til the next hearing?

bwiese
05-02-2007, 7:37 PM
Someone explain bail to me.........
Being in JAIL sucks.......as long as he shows..... don't you get your money back????

I believe if bail is acquired thru a bondsman ("Wild Boyz Bail Bonds"), the bondsman keeps a pretty hefty chunk of change. You don't get it back -that's the 'service fee'.

Sometimes property can secure a bond thru a lien. I'm thinking the price of the bond fee may depend on co-signers' property, etc.

69Mach1
05-02-2007, 7:39 PM
Never mind.

ldivinag
05-02-2007, 7:45 PM
IIRC, ten percent is what you pay the bailbondsman.

and he/she keeps that.

after all, if you had the $365,000 to pay the bail, you dont have to go through the BBM.

fairfaxjim
05-02-2007, 8:00 PM
IIRC, ten percent is what you pay the bailbondsman.

and he/she keeps that.

after all, if you had the $365,000 to pay the bail, you dont have to go through the BBM.

That is correct. The 10% is "premium" or fee for posting the bail amount and processing the lien on the collateral. In addition to the premium, the bondsman will require someone to pledge collateral, property, home, etc. to cover the full amount of the bail in the event that the person bonded out fails to appear. They will process a lien on the collateral. The person "cosigning" the bond is not only responsible for the premium amount, but often they are agreeing to pay the costs of recovering the person if they skip bail. The collateral, but not the premium, is returned or released when the case is completed, or the the court otherwise returns the bond $$ to the bondsman.

LECTRIKHED
05-02-2007, 8:00 PM
If you think about it, they provide a hell of a service. It's a lot easier for people to come up with $2000 than $20,000 or $36,500 than $365,000.

cartman
05-02-2007, 9:04 PM
well no matter what the bonds man keeps, I'll pitch in a hundred or two.

mark3lb
05-02-2007, 9:13 PM
That is off the charts bail. I think someone would have to put their house up to cover for it. Maybe his parents have a plan and financial means to help him in this troubled time. They must be having it rough, too.

ts
05-02-2007, 10:11 PM
This is all very vague - I haven't read anything about the exact charges. Stolen military stuff? Credit Card fraud? and AW stuff? I think everyone wants to know if the arrest is BS or if it is more.

paradox
05-03-2007, 5:19 AM
This is all very vague - I haven't read anything about the exact charges. Stolen military stuff? Credit Card fraud? and AW stuff? I think everyone wants to know if the arrest is BS or if it is more.

Here is the charges. Condensed from: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=56722

"ev. 900-1/99 DA Case 27397183 Page 7 Case No. GA069547
| 01 MATTHEW ARTHUR CORWIN (12/11/1983) | FELONY COMPLAINT |

COUNT 1 through 5
On or about February 26, 2007, in the County of Los Angeles, the
crime of UNLAWFUL ASSAULT WEAPON/.50 BMG RIFLE ACTIVITY, in violation of
PENAL CODE SECTION 12280(a)(1), a Felony, was committed by MATTHEW ARTHUR
CORWIN, who did unlawfully manufacture, caused to the manufactured,
distribute, transport, import into this State, keep for sale, offer and
expose for sale, give and lend an assault weapon and a .50 BMG rifle, to
wit: 1919 A4, .30 CALIBER MACHINE GUN.

* * * * *
COUNT 6
On or about April 26, 2007, in the County of Los Angeles, the crime
of POSSESSION OF AN ASSAULT WEAPON, in violation of PENAL CODE SECTION
12280(b), a Felony, was committed by MATTHEW ARTHUR CORWIN, who did
unlawfully possess an assault weapon, to wit: CALIBER 7.62 MODEL MK 991.

* * * * *
COUNT 7
On or about April 26, 2007, in the County of Los Angeles, the crime
of POSSESSION OF AN ASSAULT WEAPON, in violation of PENAL CODE SECTION
12280(b), a Felony, was committed by MATTHEW ARTHUR CORWIN, who did
unlawfully possess an assault weapon, to wit: MODEL FAR-15, CALIBER 5.56
MM.

* * * * *

COUNT 8
On or about April 26, 2007, in the County of Los Angeles, the crime
of POSSESSION OF AN ASSAULT WEAPON, in violation of PENAL CODE SECTION
12280(b), a Felony, was committed by MATTHEW ARTHUR CORWIN, who did
unlawfully possess an assault weapon, to wit: 1919 A4, CALIBER MACHINE GUN.

* * * * *

COUNT 9
On or about April 26, 2007, in the County of Los Angeles, the crime
of POSSESSION OF AN ASSAULT WEAPON, in violation of PENAL CODE SECTION
12280(b), a Felony, was committed by MATTHEW ARTHUR CORWIN, who did
unlawfully possess an assault weapon, to wit: MODEL GATOR, (AR-15),
MULTI-CALIBER.

* * * * *

COUNT 10
On or about April 26, 2007, in the County of Los Angeles, the crime
of POSSESSION OF A DEADLY WEAPON, in violation of PENAL CODE SECTION
12020(a)(1), a Felony, was committed by MATTHEW ARTHUR CORWIN, who did
unlawfully manufacture, cause to be manufactured, import into the State of
California, keep for sale, offer and expose for sale, and give, lend, and
possess an instrument and weapon of the kind commonly known as a SHURIKEN,
4 BLADED THROWING STAR.

* * * * *

COUNT 11
On or about April 26, 2007, in the County of Los Angeles, the crime
of POSSESSION OF A DEADLY WEAPON, in violation of PENAL CODE SECTION
12020(a)(1), a Felony, was committed by MATTHEW ARTHUR CORWIN, who did
unlawfully manufacture, cause to be manufactured, import into the State of
California, keep for sale, offer and expose for sale, and give, lend, and
possess an instrument and weapon of the kind commonly known as a SAP
GLOVES.

* * * * *

COUNT 12
On or about April 26, 2007, in the County of Los Angeles, the crime
of RECEIVING STOLEN PROPERTY, in violation of PENAL CODE SECTION 496(a), a
Felony, was committed by MATTHEW ARTHUR CORWIN, who did unlawfully buy,
receive, conceal, sell, withhold, and aid in concealing, selling, and
withholding property, to wit, MILITARY IDENTIFICATION, MILITARY BADGE,
MILITARY CHEMICAL SUIT, TACTICAL ENTRY, which had been stolen and obtained
by extortion, knowing that said property had been stolen and obtained by
extortion.

1919s are not assault weapons, so counts 1-5 & 8 are total BS.

Given BWO’s participation here, I’m pretty sure the other firearms are in a legal state, so that’d kill counts 6, 7, & 9.

Count 10 is BS because the law defines a shuriken as having no handles, while the four bladed knife BWO had has four handles (imagine four lock back knives joined at the butt into a cross).

Count 11 is unadulterated BS: Sap Gloves are not mentioned in PC§12020 anywhere. Saps are, but a “sap glove” isn’t a “blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.”

That leaves us with count 12, which is a pretty low thing to charge a recently discharged vet with in state court.

xdimitrix
05-03-2007, 8:09 AM
If I were him I'd rather have 36k for my legal fund than burn 36k just to get bailed out.

xenophobe
05-03-2007, 8:51 AM
Well if he cant make bail how long does he have to sit in jail for til the next hearing?

He has to sit in court until the charges or dropped, the bail lowered, or until the case is over.

Franksremote
05-03-2007, 8:56 AM
If I were him I'd rather have 36k for my legal fund than burn 36k just to get bailed out.

+1

The standard is 10% but some of the BBM out there do it for less. Either way, if not putting up the whole bail with the court, it's almost a waste of resources to use the BBM.

shark92651
05-03-2007, 9:53 AM
I believe they picked him up last Friday.

jmlivingston
05-03-2007, 10:18 AM
I believe they picked him up last Friday.

He was arrested thursday night at 8pm, booking was shortly after 10pm. It's all listed on the LASD.ORG website.

fatirishman
05-03-2007, 10:25 AM
Hmm. 1983 & Bivens, methinks.

WokMaster1
05-03-2007, 1:19 PM
Wes should also be a bail bondsman. 10% Bail & Guns:D

tenpercentfirearms
05-03-2007, 2:06 PM
Get a load of this.

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,269879,00.html

Florida High School Teacher Charged With Sexual Misconduct of Students
Thursday , May 03, 2007

FORT WALTON BEACH, Fla. —

A high school coach and teacher was arrested on charges of sexual misconduct with 11 former students.

The Walton County Sheriff's Office charged Mark Cozzie with seven felony counts of lewd or lascivious conduct, one felony count of lewd or lascivious molestation and three misdemeanor counts of battery, the Northwest Florida Daily News reported.

Cozzie, 38, was arrested Wednesday and released on $50,000 bond.

According to arrest reports, his alleged victims ranged from 9 to 18 years old. They said Cozzie inappropriately touched them between 2002 and 2007 at South Walton High and Butler Elementary School.

Cozzie coached high school boys basketball and boys and girls track and field. He transferred from Butler to South Walton in 2002.

The sheriff's office began investigating Cozzie in late March after the state Department of Children and Families reported inappropriate conduct by a teacher involving a student, said sheriff's spokesman Lt. Bryan Maule.

The school board suspended Cozzie on April 3 without pay. The Florida Department of Education is also reviewing the allegations.

************************************************** *****
This guy violates students and gets a $50K bond and our boy does nothing wrong and gets $360K??? WTF? :confused:

ts
05-03-2007, 2:55 PM
Get a load of this.

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,269879,00.html

Florida High School Teacher Charged With Sexual Misconduct of Students
Thursday , May 03, 2007

FORT WALTON BEACH, Fla. —

A high school coach and teacher was arrested on charges of sexual misconduct with 11 former students.

The Walton County Sheriff's Office charged Mark Cozzie with seven felony counts of lewd or lascivious conduct, one felony count of lewd or lascivious molestation and three misdemeanor counts of battery, the Northwest Florida Daily News reported.

Cozzie, 38, was arrested Wednesday and released on $50,000 bond.

According to arrest reports, his alleged victims ranged from 9 to 18 years old. They said Cozzie inappropriately touched them between 2002 and 2007 at South Walton High and Butler Elementary School.

Cozzie coached high school boys basketball and boys and girls track and field. He transferred from Butler to South Walton in 2002.

The sheriff's office began investigating Cozzie in late March after the state Department of Children and Families reported inappropriate conduct by a teacher involving a student, said sheriff's spokesman Lt. Bryan Maule.

The school board suspended Cozzie on April 3 without pay. The Florida Department of Education is also reviewing the allegations.

************************************************** *****
This guy violates students and gets a $50K bond and our boy does nothing wrong and gets $360K??? WTF? :confused:

Florida vs. CA

FreedomIsNotFree
05-03-2007, 3:17 PM
Florida vs. CA

I'm sure tenpercent was just making the point....

I found this within 10 seconds...

Accused molester's bail reduced (http://www.sanmateodailynews.com/article/smdn/2007-4-7-04-07-07-p6ayres)

G-dude
05-03-2007, 3:52 PM
I'm sure tenpercent was just making the point....

I found this within 10 seconds...

Accused molester's bail reduced (http://www.sanmateodailynews.com/article/smdn/2007-4-7-04-07-07-p6ayres)

You don't undertand! That person didn't have cop-killing, mass-murdering weapons that can shoot down airplanes and go through bullet-proof vests and whose sole purpose is to KILL as many people as possible in seconds with one pull of the trigger!!!!!!1

All he did was touch some kids. It's not the same!!!!1

mr.v.
05-07-2007, 12:10 AM
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

$360,000?! No chance of making that kind of bail without permanently losing $36,000 just for being accused?

What happened to the "Excessive bail shall not be required" part? Is that interpreted as a collective, and not individual, right too?

G-dude
05-07-2007, 2:53 AM
$360,000?! No chance of making that kind of bail without permanently losing $36,000 just for being accused?

What happened to the "Excessive bail shall not be required" part? Is that interpreted as a collective, and not individual, right too?



"It is more dangerous that even a guilty person should be punished without the forms of law, than that he should escape."
-Thomas Jefferson


Ya. I think that completely applies here. Here's what I think we can learn from this:

If he were charged with murder or child molesting, people's instinctive reaction is, "Good. I hope he rots in jail, that bastard." Many of us, quick to judge, forget that a person is only ACCUSED and guilt must be PROVEN in a court of law.

Many also say, "Blah! How can defense attorneys defend these people."

But here's the problem with that: If that person can't get a a good defense and is allowed to be unreasonably abused by the system, SO WILL YOU when you get wrongly accused. If guilt is presumed, then all someone has to do is accuse you and your life is ruined and you will be at the mercy of authorities for good or bad.

We need to stop thinking in our little boxes start looking at the bigger picture.

They are charging gang members now under the Patriot Act laws. Why? They're not terrorists, they're criminals. Don't we already have criminal laws to charge them? No, they are doing it because they know no one will raise any voice to defend a criminal. Today it's a gangmember, who will it be tomorrow? We're like the frog in the pot and they're slowly turning up the heat.


Reading about cases like this here have really helped educate me and be much more skeptical of both LE and the Criminal Justice System. Sorry if that sounds anti-LE, it's not.

I have a strong suspicion that much of our criminal justice system was designed, even at the outset, to railroad anyone in it's path at the whim of those in authority whenever it might suit their purpose.



More Jefferson quotes (sorry, I've been on a quote binge lately):

"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive."

"Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own
government."

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."
- Thomas Jefferson

hoffmang
05-07-2007, 6:19 AM
I know there are some very RKBA friendly bail bondsmen up here in the Bay Area. Does anyone know if any of the LA Bail Bondsmen are particularly NRA/RKBA friendly down there? If so, there may be a way to get BWO out sooner rather than later - even with the high bail.

-Gene

eta34
05-07-2007, 6:29 AM
I am not sure if someone already stated this, but in LA County there is a standard bail schedule. For "Crime X" the bail is a certain dollar amount. For "Crime Y" the bail is another dollar amount. To increase the bail amount, it has to be approved by a judge.

I don't blame the judge here, and this is why. The conversation probably went like this: "Judge, we would like to increase this man's bail. He possessed 7 machine guns, ninja stars, and also had stolen military equipment. Did I mention that he was a community college student and the campus officials are afraid of him? We don't want another Virginia Tech do we?"

I am sure with the slanted opinions he was given, the judge made a reasonable decision in his eyes. Even if these are illegally configured, this is an insane bail amount.

Uberdummy
05-07-2007, 7:37 AM
I am not sure if someone already stated this, but in LA County there is a standard bail schedule. For "Crime X" the bail is a certain dollar amount. For "Crime Y" the bail is another dollar amount. To increase the bail amount, it has to be approved by a judge.

I don't blame the judge here, and this is why. The conversation probably went like this: "Judge, we would like to increase this man's bail. He possessed 7 machine guns, ninja stars, and also had stolen military equipment. Did I mention that he was a community college student and the campus officials are afraid of him? We don't want another Virginia Tech do we?"

I am sure with the slanted opinions he was given, the judge made a reasonable decision in his eyes. Even if these are illegally configured, this is an insane bail amount.

His bail was lowered to $360,000.

eta34
05-07-2007, 7:59 AM
Right, but to be $360,000 or more in the first place, it had to be raised. The judge did the right thing by lowering it, but he didn't lower it enough.

Sailormilan2
05-07-2007, 8:09 AM
Bail schedule is supposed to be the same through out the state, and for the purposes of setting bail a judge is supposed to assume the charges are true.

simonov
05-07-2007, 8:21 AM
But here's the problem with that: If that person can't get a a good defense and is allowed to be unreasonably abused by the system, SO WILL YOU when you get wrongly accused. If guilt is presumed, then all someone has to do is accuse you and your life is ruined and you will be at the mercy of authorities for good or bad.

Quick! Without googling, how many here can remember the outcome of the McMartin Preschool molestation case?

pnkssbtz
05-07-2007, 8:35 AM
Right, but to be $360,000 or more in the first place, it had to be raised. The judge did the right thing by lowering it, but he didn't lower it enough.

No, it was $500,000 from the get go. The day he was arrested, before ever arraigned before a judge it was half a mil.

So it was never "raised". It was LOWERED to $360,000

eta34
05-07-2007, 9:10 AM
Perhaps I can explain better how this works, since I am a former deputy that worked in the jails. Like I said before, when a person is booked, there is a uniform bail schedule. If the officer or detective feels that the bail should deviate from the uniform bail schedule, he/she must ask a judge telephonically to raise the bail. I can tell you from experience that $500k is not the standard bail for the charges he faces. In fact, when facing multiple charges, the bail amount is generally the single charge with the highest bail amount, not the total amount of all of the charges.

So, here is what happened. Someone felt that at the time of BWO's booking that his bail was not high enough. He/she called the judge, explained his/her reasoning, and had it raised to $500k. At his arraignment a different judge disagreed and lowered it to $360k.

Hopefully this explains how the process works a little bit.

FreedomIsNotFree
05-07-2007, 9:37 AM
Bail schedule is supposed to be the same through out the state, and for the purposes of setting bail a judge is supposed to assume the charges are true.

Actually, from what I have seen, each county has its own bail schedule. I am sure they are more or less the same, but each county does publish their own schedule.

Liberty1
05-07-2007, 3:53 PM
Perhaps I can explain better how this works, since I am a former deputy that worked in the jails. Like I said before, when a person is booked, there is a uniform bail schedule. If the officer or detective feels that the bail should deviate from the uniform bail schedule, he/she must ask a judge telephonically to raise the bail. I can tell you from experience that $500k is not the standard bail for the charges he faces. In fact, when facing multiple charges, the bail amount is generally the single charge with the highest bail amount, not the total amount of all of the charges.

So, here is what happened. Someone felt that at the time of BWO's booking that his bail was not high enough. He/she called the judge, explained his/her reasoning, and had it raised to $500k. At his arraignment a different judge disagreed and lowered it to $360k.

Hopefully this explains how the process works a little bit.

Correct! This is also my experience. The highest single bail amount, amongst the numerous charges, serves as the bail "ceiling". More charges to not normally mean higher bail, usually it's just between $20,000 - $50,000 based on the "highest" charge.

The higher initial amount for Matt ($500K) was a "special" request. It was most likely "justified" by the "information" the arresting deputies and supervisors supplied to a judge via telephone. (most law enforcement office telephones are recorded, so it would be interesting to hear that coversation-FOIA anyone?)

eta34
05-07-2007, 5:18 PM
I don't have a copy of the LA County Bail Schedule in front of me. If I remember, I will look up the "assault weapon" possession charge, as it is likely has the highest bail of all of his charges. I will guarantee you it is not a $500k bail. Felony domestic violence is $50k, possession of meth is somewhere around $10k, so I can't imagine the weapons being more than $100k. This is definitely a case of politically motivated bail deviation.

FreedomIsNotFree
05-07-2007, 6:50 PM
I don't have a copy of the LA County Bail Schedule in front of me. If I remember, I will look up the "assault weapon" possession charge, as it is likely has the highest bail of all of his charges. I will guarantee you it is not a $500k bail. Felony domestic violence is $50k, possession of meth is somewhere around $10k, so I can't imagine the weapons being more than $100k. This is definitely a case of politically motivated bail deviation.

Here you go...

http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/bail/pdf/felony.pdf

Jicko
05-07-2007, 7:30 PM
I don't have a copy of the LA County Bail Schedule in front of me. If I remember, I will look up the "assault weapon" possession charge, as it is likely has the highest bail of all of his charges. I will guarantee you it is not a $500k bail. Felony domestic violence is $50k, possession of meth is somewhere around $10k, so I can't imagine the weapons being more than $100k. This is definitely a case of politically motivated bail deviation.

You have to sum up each count.... he got 12....

USMC_2651_E5
05-07-2007, 8:03 PM
The uniform bail schedule is the same for throughout the state and bail ammounts do not change for crimes depending on county. What does vary is wether or not a county adds bail for all charges or just sets the highest bail of all the charges. I know from experience that Orange Cty will just charge the single highest bail and LA Cty will tally up bail for all charges. One reason LA Cty does this is the amount of crime that occurs and number of people going through their court system. LA won't even abstract a warrant unless it's bail ammount is over $25,000. It's not unusual to see a traffic warrant from LA Cty with a bail set at $26,000 (for infractions).

Rem1492
05-07-2007, 8:19 PM
Quick! Without googling, how many here can remember the outcome of the McMartin Preschool molestation case?

I do, I was a young kid at the time so even my parents were all up in arms, get the posse, hang em etc............

Yet if I recall (without google) they were innocent and the charges were bogus, yet their lives destroyed.
Cant remember if the false charges were some parents or a rival business just angry at them, will have to check on it now.

In any case, I agree with the judge on -dangerous guy, LOTS of big bad guns, evil student etc V-tech- so keep the bail high. I disagree on it staying insanely high for an obvious reason, the charges at a glance are bogus.

As for the patriot act and innocent until guilty. I was of the mindset, put em all in jail and kill em when I was young. My civics teacher Mr Fike asked me what If I were wrongly accused? I said it would never happen and he asked again, yeah but what if? Wouldnt you like the benefit of the doubt that you are an honest citizen? ...............made sense.

The patriot act is good for dead terrorists. I agree with it there. However I was on the understanding it was for terror only, NOT any domestic cases of non-alqueda type stuff, period. It seems to have become the tool of the Brwonshirts. And for all those anti Patriot Act democrats, where is their roar now? Nicely silent now that they are in power............thanks.

The bail system seems fair, in this case however.........it did not work and is ruining a good persons education. The system is doing more harm than good in this one.

Sailormilan2
05-07-2007, 9:38 PM
Actually, from what I have seen, each county has its own bail schedule. I am sure they are more or less the same, but each county does publish their own schedule.

You are in fact correct, I misspoke. The Unified Bail Schedule applies to Infractions, such as Fish and Game and Traffice tickets.

simonov
05-08-2007, 3:14 AM
The patriot act is good for dead terrorists. I agree with it there. However I was on the understanding it was for terror only, NOT any domestic cases of non-alqueda type stuff, period.

It never made sense.

How do you know they are terrorists? Answer: you don't, not without due process. That's why we have it. And due process is an inalienable right, for all people everywhere, that existed before the Constitution was written.

This is also one of the many objections to torture of any kind. How do you know you are torturing the right guy?

eta34
05-08-2007, 6:26 AM
I work for an LA County agency. In my experience, we use the charge with the highest dollar amount. We do not stack the charges.

hitnrun
05-08-2007, 6:30 AM
How do you know you are torturing the right guy?

That's why you torture 'em. To find out! :p

VeryCoolCat
05-08-2007, 6:43 AM
I would reccomend BWO stay in jail for the time being.

Then he can rack up a bunch of things when he goes to sues the state for all the bs charges. False Imprisonment, Harassment, Mental Anguish, the neighbors think you are crook now... you are going to have to move to a $1.2 million dollar house in beverly hills.

Keep the.... I was a military veteran harassed by the state. DO NOT accept any bargains for lesser charges which is what they'll try to pulll so you end up getting probation on the ninja star charge which is bs anyways.

This will be a very expensive legal battle. Maybe you can find a criminal attourney that would be willing to hear the case out and in turn sue the state for a percentage. Too bad johnny cochran is dead.... if the SAP GLOVE DOESN'T FIT YOU MUST AQUIT!

WTH is a "CALIBER 7.62 MODEL MK 991." I hope that is not a "simonov self loading rifle" modified to take ak mags... because that'd make this whole thing much harder to win.

Scarecrow Repair
05-08-2007, 8:06 AM
This guy violates students and gets a $50K bond and our boy does nothing wrong and gets $360K???

Both are presumed innocent until proven guilty. I certainly think the bails are out of whack, but that's becasue I think BWO's charge are B.S. on the face of it, and I know nothing of the Florida man. His supporters probably have the reverse same opinion.

Remember that huge day care fiasco many years ago, all those people charged and convicted in what turned out to be complete nonsense? This teacher may be the same for all we know.

simonov
05-08-2007, 8:21 AM
Remember that huge day care fiasco many years ago, all those people charged and convicted in what turned out to be complete nonsense?

That was McMartin Preschool, the case I mentioned before.

Defendants in jail for seven years, lives ruined, DA Ira Reiner running around following up stories of widespread satanic rituals, human sacrifice, tunnels under the buildings, etc, all completely bogus.

There's still apparently a robust industry of McMartin revisionist nutjobs still trying to get the "truth" recognized.

gn3hz3ku1*
05-08-2007, 11:05 AM
just look at the poor guys from duke... they should sue as should bwo but then dont he have to prove that the gov did it on purpose?