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View Full Version : AKS triangle side folder.... compliance ideas...


Jeepers
05-08-2012, 11:51 AM
looking for detailed pics on the trunnion inside and out of the reciever with the stock in closed , open , and 1/2 way positions .....


thanks .....

Hey nice pic! One good lift deserves another, here's a side view of the trunnion:

http://www.k-var.com/shop/images/d_1266.jpg

-MRA

Hey nice pic! One good lift deserves another, here's a side view of the trunnion:

http://www.k-var.com/shop/images/d_865.jpg

-MRA
https://w1jz2a.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pV0buqo_PN1JFvBMpqVVKLOzBuEmovSVNMzk5sRmqOvikuDg DGAEducK-q74TsQcR1xq33wveODNgzyXQdX3haQ/Triangle%2001.jpg?psid=1

Jeepers
05-08-2012, 12:26 PM
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4715/cimg2715q.jpg
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8093/cimg2714g.jpg
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8373/cimg2708m.jpg
http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/2029/cimg2707.jpg
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/6651/ak431ri01.jpg
pics from Google thanks to whoever took them ....

its looking promising :D but will take fabbing up a new part more then modding a orig ones

MadRiverArms
05-08-2012, 12:32 PM
FYI, that last pic is of the commercial 5.5mm trunnion with the slot that is used in conjunction with the trigger block.

One thing you have to realize is that unlike the underfolder, where the locking mechanism stays pushed in until the stock is completely open or folded, the side folder release pops back out as soon as the stock is rotated.

-MRA

Jeepers
05-08-2012, 12:39 PM
FYI, that last pic is of the commercial 5.5mm trunnion with the slot that is used in conjunction with the trigger block.

-MRA
do you know of anyplace that has pics or drawings of that and how they work, my idea is useing a pivoting blocker bar and a pin on the back of the stock that will disengage the safety with the stock locked open ...

MadRiverArms
05-08-2012, 1:21 PM
Ooh that just gave me an idea for using a center support type sleeve between the ears of the trunnion and a long rivet to give something to pivot off.

As for pics of the internals I have only seen views of it all assembled and cannot for the life of me remember where it was. The link was somewhere in a thread on one of the AK forums. Hopefully somebody else has it.

-MRA

Jeepers
05-08-2012, 1:24 PM
Ooh that just gave me an idea for using a center support type sleeve between the ears of the trunnion and a long rivet to give something to pivot off.

As for pics of the internals I have only seen views of it all assembled and cannot for the life of me remember where it was. The link was somewhere in a thread on one of the AK forums. Hopefully somebody else has it.

-MRA
;) ...

i am thinking "sortof" the same , but with it pivoting left to right instead on up and down ....

nicoroshi
05-08-2012, 1:37 PM
:lurk5:

MadRiverArms
05-08-2012, 2:08 PM
;) ...

i am thinking "sortof" the same , but with it pivoting left to right instead on up and down ....

How about a trigger blocking bar that could pivot around a vertical post on a modified pistol grip nut. A bar that pivots around the nut could be linked at the right side to an arm that goes out the rear of the trunnion on the right side. The bar could be torsionally spring loaded to rotate clockwise around the pivot point so that when the stock is unlatched the bar would rotate clockwise over the left trigger leg. Unfolding the stock would push the link into the receiver thus rotating the bar counterclockwise off the trigger leg.

-MRA

Jeepers
05-08-2012, 2:51 PM
How about a trigger blocking bar that could pivot around a vertical post on a modified pistol grip nut. A bar that pivots around the nut could be linked at the right side to an arm that goes out the rear of the trunnion on the right side. The bar could be torsionally spring loaded to rotate clockwise around the pivot point so that when the stock is unlatched the bar would rotate clockwise over the left trigger leg. Unfolding the stock would push the link into the receiver thus rotating the bar counterclockwise off the trigger leg.

-MRA
i like that idea more then welding on a pivot point to the trunnion ...

the issue i am running into is how to "force" the operator to have to engage the safety to fold the stock..... thinking ...thinking ...... thinking ..............

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/5554/conceptv.jpg

MadRiverArms
05-08-2012, 2:55 PM
The safety blocks the trigger at the right leg. the left leg is available and would allow opening the stock regardless of safety position. There can be a lot of friction in the safety lever so designing something that would generate the leverage to move it automatically could end up being too big.

I was just thinking that if you have something that extends out the back of the trunnion then the operator could push it and fire the weapon when the stock is folded. I'm beginning to understand why the Russian design is contained between the trunnion and receiver, back to the drawing board for me...

-MRA

Jeepers
05-08-2012, 3:05 PM
ok i need some pics of one complete with FCG installed and safety so i can sort of judge some things a lil better ... will be back at this later tonight gots to get some paying work to get done ... lol

RustyMacHine
05-08-2012, 3:12 PM
Just let me know when you guys are done.

"I'll take it"One in UF and one in SF.

:D


.

Jeepers
05-08-2012, 5:09 PM
ok i think i have the "forced" safety figured out but need to know if this latch is solid and about how far it push's into the receiver before the stock is released

http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/9423/catch.jpg

The safety blocks the trigger at the right leg. the left leg is available and would allow opening the stock regardless of safety position. There can be a lot of friction in the safety lever so designing something that would generate the leverage to move it automatically could end up being too big.when i say "forced" safety i mean something that forces the operator of the weapon to put the gun on safe before the stock can be unlatched

I was just thinking that if you have something that extends out the back of the trunnion then the operator could push it and fire the weapon when the stock is folded. I'm beginning to understand why the Russian design is contained between the trunnion and receiver, back to the drawing board for me...this is why i am adding some kind of pin/small block to the back of the stock to insert into the slot in the trunnion,that should prevent hand manipulation of the safety bar

-MRA

MadRiverArms
05-08-2012, 6:10 PM
That part is hollow but not the same diameter all the way through. The same part as used on the 5.5mm hinge pin trunnion is supposed to be solid but I have not seen one in person.

As for how far you push it in I'd say about 3/16".

-MRA

Jeepers
05-08-2012, 7:45 PM
ok guys i think i have it figured out to make it operate like the underfolder mod, thinking along the lines of shorting the spring in the catch adding a short collar around the catch so that the spring will now ride on the collar instead of the right side of the receiver, that will give the room i need on the catch needed to "force" the shooter to have to engage the safety before the catch can be pressed

but really cant go any further with having parts in hand...

damn you guys i dont have a 74 and now going to go have to look for a kit ....lol

MadRiverArms
05-08-2012, 8:44 PM
Sounds similar to what I posted in the other thread. When the selector is off safe it engages the collar so that the catch cannot be pushed in. Moving the selector to safe frees the collar to move. Push the catch in and release the stock. Once you start moving the stock the catch will move left under the spring force. Along the way the selector could be taken off safe and the stock locked in the folded position. Another opportunity to disengage the safety occurs when the stock is almost completely folded as it pushes the catch in again.

Interested in seeing/visualizing how you would make the connection between the safety lever and the collar.

-MRA

MadRiverArms
05-08-2012, 10:03 PM
I've been digging for this link all day:

http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/43/189234.html

It's in Russian but has a lot of pictures showing how the side folder locking mechanism is set up. Looks to prevent the catch from being pushed in and once the stock starts rotating prevents the safety from being disengaged as the rod can no longer go backwards.

-MRA

Jeepers
05-08-2012, 10:37 PM
I've been digging for this link all day:

http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/43/189234.html

It's in Russian but has a lot of pictures showing how the side folder locking mechanism is set up. Looks to prevent the catch from being pushed in and the stock from rotating. Seems redundant but it looks to do both.

-MRA

you rock and believe it or not do understand those pics quite well even if its in Russian ...lol thank you for digging that up


ok so here is the part that connects from the safety to the button

http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000563/563256.jpg

http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000563/563287.jpg

http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000563/563662.jpg

notice the bottom on the safety on the left side, that slides in that connector... also note the slot in the latch button

http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000563/563292.jpg

here is the connector in the fire position thus locking the button by a slot in the button

http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000563/563299.jpg

the reason for the connector coming out the back is so if the weapon in on fire with the stock folded and you swing the stock closed it will hit this and push the safety to safe and unlock the button at the same time
i think to interfere with the hinge to keep it on safe this pic shows the safety on fire, on safe it would be flush

http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000563/563648.jpg


.... so with that i definitively think that a mod could be done, but it would be alot more work then the underfolder due to having to mod/slot the trunnion....


ETA if the hinge wont allow that tail to come out the back while being folded it would prevent the weapon from moving off safe in any position other then stock locked open ....done deal

MadRiverArms
05-09-2012, 7:06 AM
Yes the pictures make it very clear how things work. Now if we could just get some of those parts here for future builds.

-MRA

Jeepers
05-09-2012, 2:02 PM
Yes the pictures make it very clear how things work. Now if we could just get some of those parts here for future builds.

-MRA

ya if those parts where available it would be cool , but i dont see any real issues with someone making that system up in there shop, heck that link you posted even have the dimensions on the connecting rod ....

i priced out those trunnions and stocks and kits , and its just not for me at the price i am way to poor ....lol

RustyMacHine
05-09-2012, 2:25 PM
Are we done yet?

Nico! on my way to HD.

Text you later.



:43:



The suspense... :shifty:


.

13204u
05-10-2012, 12:05 AM
So without the slot in the trunnion prior to install this is a no go? As in no other way to do this without that particular setup?

MadRiverArms
05-10-2012, 7:16 AM
Pretty much due to the fact that slot is the only thing tying the stock to the safety. Every design I dreamed up had the same flaw.

-MRA

liv4spd
05-12-2012, 6:12 AM
Sub'd - dig where your heads at guys. :lurk5: