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View Full Version : Alberto Gonzales: Guns on campus would not prevent violence


Steyr_223
05-02-2007, 12:40 PM
Why is Alberto still around as AG of the USA???

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/05/02/campus.violence.gonzales.ap/index.html

•Gonzales thinks that guns on campus would not ward off violence
•Gonzales says we can't guarantee complete security
•Gonzales believes authorities should enforce existing handgun laws

OKLAHOMA CITY, Oklahoma (AP) -- Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said Wednesday that having more guns on college campuses is not the way to prevent campus violence like the massacre at Virginia Tech.

Since the April 16 shootings that left 33 people dead, including the gunman, at Virginia Tech, some have suggested that the carnage might have been lower if a student or professor with a gun had stepped in.

"I don't think that is the answer quite frankly," said Gonzales, who was participating in a governor's task force to study safety and security on Oklahoma college campuses.

Instead, authorities should enforce existing laws concerning the ownership and use of handguns, he said.

"We can't guarantee complete security," Gonzales said. "We need to see what we can do as a government -- on the federal level, on the state level -- to ensure the safety of our students."

He said the government also needs to work closely to make campuses safe while still respecting individual freedoms and privacy.

"In a society where we really value individual freedom and respect privacy we're also concerned about public safety," Gonzales said.

The task force, which included discussions among law enforcement, mental health and higher education officials, focused on getting and sharing information about possible campus risks and how to respond to a campus attack.

"Is there additional information that we need with respect to individuals who may pose a threat to society?" Gonzales said.

In response to the shootings, Virginia Gov. Timothy M. Kaine signed an executive order requiring that anyone ordered by a court to get mental health treatment be added to a state police database of people barred from buying guns.

The Virginia Tech gunman, Seung-Hui Cho, had been judged a danger to himself by a court in 2005. But he was not added to the database because he was not committed to a hospital, instead he was ordered to get outpatient mental-health treatment.

Gonzales said authorities should know whether a mentally ill student may be prone to violence but their privacy rights should also be protected to avoid discouraging them from seeking treatment.

"We know that treatment is very, very effective," he said.

Federal officials must work closely with states to prevent and respond to threats, Gonzales said. "They know best what the problems are, and they know best what the solutions are," he said.

leelaw
05-02-2007, 12:46 PM
:rolleyes:

"He said the government also needs to work closely to make campuses safe while still respecting individual freedoms and privacy."

Personal freedoms like the ones enumerated in the Constitution?

How about that second one, Gonzo?

I guess feeling safe is more important than being safe.

simonov
05-02-2007, 1:00 PM
Why is Alberto still around as AG of the USA???

Same reason Dick and George are still in the White House.

Scarecrow Repair
05-02-2007, 3:19 PM
Why is Alberto still around as AG of the USA???

Because the Republicans had six years to keep their leader in compliance with the constitution and the rule of law but chose to abrogate their responsibility as an equal partner in government, deferring to the executive branch instead of calling him out when he strayed from legality and the principles for which they supposedly stood. Thus it ever was. One of the few clear cut differences between the two parties is that Democrats at least are too disorganized to ever be fascists, not that they wouldn't like to be. Righty tighty, lefty loosey means they will both screw you, it's just a difference of how.

jumbopanda
05-02-2007, 3:30 PM
If a putting a bullet in the head of someone who tries shooting up a school doesn't stop him, I don't know what will. :confused:

pnkssbtz
05-02-2007, 4:01 PM
Because the Republicans had six years to keep their leader in compliance with the constitution and the rule of law but chose to abrogate their responsibility as an equal partner in government, deferring to the executive branch instead of calling him out when he strayed from legality and the principles for which they supposedly stood. Thus it ever was. One of the few clear cut differences between the two parties is that Democrats at least are too disorganized to ever be fascists, not that they wouldn't like to be. Righty tighty, lefty loosey means they will both screw you, it's just a difference of how.

Congratulations, you are going in my text file full of awesome quotes!

shark92651
05-02-2007, 4:34 PM
Instead, authorities should enforce existing laws concerning the ownership and use of handguns, he said.

I guess he missed the fact that the authorities DID enfoce the existing laws in regards to Cho. He legally purchased his gun :rolleyes: Allowing CCW on campus may not be "the answer" to stop the introduction of homocidal psychopaths into our society but it may very well help reduce the body count when the rest of the system fails.

MrTuffPaws
05-02-2007, 5:20 PM
Man I never thought I would say this, but I miss Ashcroft.

simonov
05-02-2007, 5:21 PM
Man I never thought I would say this, but I miss Ashcroft.

Right on. I've never been comfortable with those nudie statutes in the Rotunda.

Dont Tread on Me
05-02-2007, 7:07 PM
I guess he does not recall reading the second amendment...

jumbopanda
05-02-2007, 7:11 PM
I guess he does not recall reading the second amendment...

Many politicians don't.

ElCUBANO
05-02-2007, 7:56 PM
He can read? This guy makes Bush look like a genius.

ctbassman
05-02-2007, 10:27 PM
I don't know if it having armed students with CCW's would work out all that well. While I support our 2nd ammendment, I don't think that the majority of 21+ college students are mentally mature enough to carry the burden of a CCW and a loaded weapon on campus. I did some time in college, then joined the military, and I am now back in college. I can tell you that in the majority of my classes are a number of 21-24 year old students that I would not trust with a potato gun in a college environment, or any environment for that matter. If this were to become a reality there would have to be a much more in depth check on the student applying for the CCW to carry and to carry on a college campus. Not all students need to be armed, but definately, there are some that can, and should be trusted in our educational institutions to have the facilities to protect those around them. After all in the VT shootings it would have only taken one well trained shooter in each class to have the permission to legally carry on campus and much of the carnage that was experienced would not have happened. This is simply my thoughts on the matter from being in a college environment for the past 2.5 years. If you just heard what most of the 21-24 year old group talked about, trust me, you would not want to think that this guy sitting behind you was packing. Would have to be bery regulated in my opinion. Unfortunately, while I support the 2nd ammendment, my position on this is geared more concerned with the maturity level of the individual carrying the gun, and in modern times as CCW is not a right, the right is to bear arms, not conceal arms. I am all for open carry where applicable, and CCW in nearly every location. Think about how much money our gov't poured into airline security after 9/11, why not the same response for college campuses's? They could make it happen, and if much more of this type of violence goes on, this may be what happens. It already occurs in inner city schools, just because you are paying for a higher level education does not make you exempt from being a complete nutjob. VT is the perfect example of this. It sucks, but this instance is only going to make things worse, not better.

Pred@tor
05-03-2007, 10:32 AM
Age is just a number... I am 20 and does that make me immature? I own alot of guns too. I guess I am a problem... Gun Free zones work wonders...

artherd
05-03-2007, 6:12 PM
There is NO debate, guns in Virgina schools save lives:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting

Pred@tor
05-04-2007, 1:40 AM
Well I get offended when ever someone says no guns for thee but for me. I am a custodian for the local school district in a gun free zone. I am helpless and rely on the campus cop if there is one and thats it. I am at the mercy of an armed person what the hell could I do in such a situation? Also being a college student I am denied my rights as well but it don't stop there the state don't like it all too much either.

Hell my first gun was at age 12 a side by side 12 gauge to protect my mother at night when Dad wasn't home. My father gifted it to me on Valentines day. Its not an age issue at all... People can be responsible and mature regardless of their age.

triggerhappy
05-04-2007, 8:48 AM
:rolleyes:

"He said the government also needs to work closely to make campuses safe while still respecting individual freedoms and privacy."

Personal freedoms like the ones enumerated in the Constitution?

How about that second one, Gonzo?

I guess feeling safe is more important than being safe.

Yes, how you feel matters. Reality is unimportant.

ctbassman
05-04-2007, 8:01 PM
Pred@tor,

I did not say you yourself were immature, I said the majority of college students in that age bracket are, and I know I am right in that matter. In the original post I made, I stated that not all students need to be armed, but DEFINATELY some can be, and SHOULD be. I did not say I should be either. Your comment of guns for me but not for thee was implied, and you took my post rather personally. I do not care how old you are or how many guns you have, that is irrelevant. As you said, age is just a number, and so is the number of guns you own, that is all based on the cash flow you have, and how many you can afford. There are responsible citezens with only one gun and irresponsible citiznes who have many. Furthermore, it would not be up to me to decide if you are responsible enough to carry on a college campus or in the "gun free" workplace. I can say that I do hope the day that you turn 21 you go get a handgun and immediately sign up for a CCW class and attempt to get your license. The truly unfortunate fact is that most people in CA who ***** about our CCW laws have never tried to get one, or think it is impossible, it is not. As a matter of fact, the Sheriff in San Diego will issue you a CCW for a good reason, and with a bit of thought and preparation, it is not that hard to get one, just pricey. We all must come to terms with the fact that CA is the state that we live in, and no matter what, with our lawmakers and very liberal voting base there is no brighter day in the future. If the right to bear arms and CCW matters that much to you, you must do something more than be pissed at me for a post that I made on this forum.

Artherd,

As I said to Pred@tor, I do not disagree with guns on campus totally, I disagree with every 21 year old who can purchase being able to carry. The background check system is so lax, VT proved that. If you read my post again it states that there SHOULD be some students authorized to carry in order to protect their other classmates. It is not up to me to decide that, and I made no implication that it was, or that it should be me. What you posted just proved my point. One of the guys was a Sheriff's deputy who was involved in the apprehension of this shooter. So, did it take all 21+ individuals to be armed to stop this guy, no, it took a couple. Would all 21+ students being armed have stopped 3 people from passing on, no, more than likely, like in the VT shootings the perpetrator storms in and, unfortunately would get a few before others really realized what was happening and had a chance to act.

ravenbkp
05-05-2007, 3:08 PM
Ok so they can go off at 17 and kill or die for their country but..........puhleeze engage brain then type! thank you!

Satex
05-05-2007, 3:42 PM
Why is Alberto still around as AG of the USA???


Why? Is that a rhetorical question?

It’s because we have an incompetent president that has a group of cronies, and they get assigned to key positions in the administration. The AG is no different.

Fate
05-05-2007, 8:26 PM
...I disagree with every 21 year old who can purchase being able to carry. The background check system is so lax, VT proved that.
CCW background checks are different (and more extensive) than the normal "buying a gun" kind. Lax is not a word I'd use in the same sentence with CCW licensing.

ctbassman
05-05-2007, 8:56 PM
While this is true in CA, it is not in other states with shall issue. Obtaining one in a state with shall issue is very easy. An easy example is the Florida/Utah CCW. So in some instances CCW and lax can be used in the same sentence.

ctbassman
05-05-2007, 9:01 PM
Of course they can, and they will attend boot camp, then infantry shool, and then a training regimen to ensure that they are adequately prepared to the job that they volunteered to do. Seems like a lot more taillored training to me than a 16 hour state mandated course and the application and interviewing process of obtaining a CCW.