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nicki
05-04-2012, 8:06 PM
Question for the board.

It was brought to my attention that "armed guards" don't have to do live fire qualifications to get their guard cards.

I was under the impression that security guards had to regularily qualify with their sidearms.

So am I getting FUD that private security guards are NOT REQUIRED to have live fire qualifications to get and maintain their guard cards?

I realize that we may have a situation where the state doesn't require live fire, but most if not all the security companies do so as a matter of company policy.

Anyone know what the law really is?

The antis say that only "trained security and police should be allowed" to carry guns in public, if security guards are not required to do live fire, that would kinda shoot some holes in that argument.

Nicki

dvcrsn
05-04-2012, 8:11 PM
to keep the gun card--we have to range qual every 6 months

sleeper2020
05-04-2012, 8:29 PM
as stated above you have to qual every six months however I use the term qual very loosly, the course of fire is a joke and your paying for the qual. So some instructors take that as meaning that they have to pass you because your paying for it. Most instructors however take a greater responsibility then that.

Markinsac
05-04-2012, 8:34 PM
The actual requirement is that you qualify twice for each year of the permit, keeping in mind that your expiration date is the last month of your year. They also require that each qualification be at least 4 months apart.

Now, the person who gave you the information may have been referring to the use of a simulator in place of an actual live firing session - that is legal, but I don't know too many places that use it. You should also be firing the weapon you carry so that you're familiar with it.

Here is the page with the informaiton:

http://www.bsis.ca.gov/customer_service/faqs/firearms_permit.shtml

cheapblaster
05-04-2012, 11:30 PM
Our housemate is qualified as an armed guard. To maintain that qualification he has to re-cert twice a year at a facility qualified to re-cert him. I'd ask him what he had to do to first qualify, but he's sleeping now and I know he has guns........

So much for FUD.

Markinsac
05-04-2012, 11:49 PM
The link I shared before will give the basic information. The minimum training is 14 hours (includes classroom and qualifications). I HIGHLY recommend that anyone not completely familiar with a weapon take additional training to become familiar and safe with it. In fact, anyone who is fairly new to carrying a weapon should take extra training if nothing else than for their own safety.

Other things to consider - the firearm permit is ONLY valid with a current guard card. You also have to be IN uniform with the necessary patches while carrying. (There is an exception for plain clothes if you also have an LTC).

Business and Professions Code, Section 7582.26(i):
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=bpc&group=07001-08000&file=7582-7582.28

nicki
05-05-2012, 11:41 AM
I will link my friend to your posts.

Nicki

tbhracing
05-05-2012, 11:41 AM
Tagged

ElvenSoul
05-05-2012, 12:02 PM
Well I gave up keeping my Card a few years ago. However if I was you, call Prado! There used to be a group of LE and Guards that qualified there every month for a very low fee.

pHredd9mm
05-05-2012, 7:28 PM
The CA BSIS guard card is for unarmed private security guards and is the basic credential (requires a background check). Requires basic training, plus more training for a total of a total of 40 hours ($$$) .

An unarmed guard can qualify through training ($$$) for credential(s) to carry handcuffs, pepper spray, tasers and batons.

An armed security guard is one who has the unarmed credential and then does the training (more $$$) and completes the range qualifications for one or more calibers (ex: .45, .40, 9mm, .38/.357) AND passes a more stringest background check. Armed guards must complete range requalifications twice a year, minimum of 4 months apart. After two years must redo the whole thing. The range qualification is not difficult from most trainers.

The armed guard firearms card is for exposed carry only, while in uniform, while actually working or going to/from an armed shift. Just having a firearms card while working as a guard does not automatically mean you can carry an exposed firearm. MOST security companies only let very few specific personnel (supervisors, mobile patrol) carry firearms. I used to work for a security company here in CA that had unarmed guards at banks. If I hadn't been an armed supervisor, I would have refused that assignment.

Gunsmith Dan
05-05-2012, 9:52 PM
I worked the whole range of armed security/security training years ago going through school and as a 2nd job. The rules have changed alot over the years since about the late 90's when California was going through its phase of passing extreme anti-gun laws and the Oklahoma Bombing. (In fact alot of the laws got updated few years after the Oklahoma Bombing. Some politicians felt undertrained contract security officer were to blame for not properly inspecting a suspicious vehicle.)

It was brought to my attention that "armed guards" don't have to do live fire qualifications to get their guard cards.

Nicki

That question you asked is actually correct in the way you asked it. Armed security guards do not need to do firearms qualifications to get "guard cards" because that is the basic card all security guards need to have armed or unarmed. The permit that you do need to get firearms qualifications 2 times a year (used to be 1) for is a "Firearms Permit" which is caliber specific and not gun specific. In other words if you qualifiy for "38/357 Cal" you not only can carry 38/357 revolvers but also .357 Sig pistols. In fact the right to carry a paticular round does not go by size of the round but the name given to it by the manufacturer. Get qualified on .45 Cal and basically any pistol round named from the manufacturer with .45 in it would be legal to carry (.45 Long Colt, .45 ACP, .45 Super etc. , yes seems silly but I personally know this is true because I got confirmation from the BSIS). So in order to get a "Firearms Permit" yes you do need to qualify and yes there is no requirement to do "live" fire training a simulator will count. The thing is most places that train DON'T use simulators because they could become liable in a wrongful death lawsuit because of lack of live fire training.

BUT here is the exception:

Persons who are employeed directly for the company they are protecting, the company NOT being in the business of providing private protection services (security companies, body guard services, private investigators, couriers, armored cars etc.) and working only on the company's property DO NOT need "Guard Cards". The employees are also in fact allowed by law to carry firearms, concealed or exposed, WITHOUT any required permits or training if allowed by the owner(s) only on company property ( driving/flying/steering around in a company vehicle/plane/boat off of company property does not count, but ships do). Most companies use private security companies because it is cheaper and if there is ever a wrongful death lawsuit the Security Company will end up paying most, if not all, of the settlement costs again saving the company money, but there is companies that want full control and hire "proprietary" guards.


So the answer to the question is yes and no depending on who they work for.

Cheers

Jimbo60
05-06-2012, 9:54 AM
BUT here is the exception:

Persons who are employeed directly for the company they are protecting, the company NOT being in the business of providing private protection services (security companies, body guard services, private investigators, couriers, armored cars etc.) and working only on the company's property DO NOT need "Guard Cards". The employees are also in fact allowed by law to carry firearms, concealed or exposed, WITHOUT any required permits or training if allowed by the owner(s) only on company property ( driving/flying/steering around in a company vehicle/plane/boat off of company property does not count, but ships do). Most companies use private security companies because it is cheaper and if there is ever a wrongful death lawsuit the Security Company will end up paying most, if not all, of the settlement costs again saving the company money, but there is companies that want full control and hire "proprietary" guards.


So the answer to the question is yes and no depending on who they work for.

Cheers

Check with the BSIS .... that's no longer true as of January 2011.

http://www.bsis.ca.gov/industries_regulated/ppso.shtml


http://www.bsis.ca.gov/customer_service/faqs/ppso.shtml

Summarized here from their PDF.

Senate bill 741 amended the Proprietary Security Services Act of 2006:

Effective on and after January 1, 2011, companies that employ security officers as employees or "proprietary private security employers" will be required to register with the department. The law requires applicants for registration to apply to the department and would require these applications to include, among other things, a $50 fee for officers and a $75 fee for employers as well as fingerprints for the officer application. The law requires that, upon approval of an application by the Director of Consumer Affairs, officer and employer applicants be issued a registration card or registration certificate, respectively.

This law also on and after July 1, 2011, requires registered proprietary private security officers to complete training in security officer skills (as shown above). The law requires employers to maintain specified records regarding the employment of officers and their completion of training in security officer skills, for no less than two years. The law also requires these officers on duty to carry a valid and current registration card or a specified alternative as well as other identification. (See Business and Professions Code section 7574.22).

(Disclaimer: A Proprietary Private Security Officer (PPSO) shall not carry a firearm or a baton)


Jim

Shenaniguns
05-06-2012, 1:03 PM
You are confusing a basic Guard Card and the exposed carry license.