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E Pluribus Unum
05-01-2007, 1:13 PM
Because Blackwater was brought up on charges for selling/distributing assault weapons...make sure everything is legal.

tenpercentfirearms
05-01-2007, 1:23 PM
So what did everyone do to make sure their M1919A4 was legal? Does the pistol grip on it meet the definition or is the web above the trigger sufficiently? Does the spade grips take care of that because the grip is not below the action of the firearm? What do you guys think?

Super_tactical
05-01-2007, 1:27 PM
I think it's about time to rise up.

grammaton76
05-01-2007, 1:32 PM
I think it's about time to rise up.

Kinda pointless to do so if this case has the expected results (all gun-related charges won or dropped). If he wins, it's case law and life just got better, if they're dropped, that DA won't touch a similar case again. In a way, this case is rising up.

Solidsnake87
05-01-2007, 1:42 PM
So the guy had a 1919 in his collection? I thought those were legal in the standard configuration they came in. They are advertised on the site as being 50 state legal?!?!?!? Did the guy link more than 10-rounds together in his myspace pics too, or does that matter? I am working hard toward one of these rifles. Is it a bad idea to get one now?

E Pluribus Unum
05-01-2007, 1:44 PM
So the guy had a 1919 in his collection? I thought those were legal in the standard configuration they came in. They are advertised on the site as being 50 state legal?!?!?!? Did the guy link more than 10-rounds together or does that matter? I am working hard toward one of these rifles. Is it a bad idea to get one now?

11 round + links are cool if they were assembled before 2000 (no way to tell).

He was not charged with that.


The rifle is legal but the cops are ignorant. Its not a bad idea to buy one. Its a bad idea to buy one and the simulate full-auto fire by bump firing it, taking video and upload it to myspace. Then have comments on your myspace about killing people. That might get you undo attention.

Solidsnake87
05-01-2007, 1:49 PM
The rifle is legal but the cops are ignorant. Its not a bad idea to buy one. Its a bad idea to buy one and the simulate full-auto fire by bump firing it, taking video and upload it to myspace. Then have comments on your myspace about killing people. That might get you undo attention.

lol, when you put it that way.....Why would u bring that kind of attention to urself? I figure that maybe the case is being pushed harder due to the VT shootings. Especially since he pointed a gun at the camera in his myspace pics. Meh.

So how do I go about trying to transfer a 1919. Do i walk to the owner and say "yes, i'd like to purchase a browing 1919 belt fed semi-auto version of the famous machine gun through u???????"

E Pluribus Unum
05-01-2007, 1:52 PM
lol, when you put it that way.....Why would u bring that kind of attention to urself? I figure that maybe the case is being pushed harder due to the VT shootings. Especially since he pointed a gun at the camera in his myspace pics. Meh.

So how do I go about trying to transfer a 1919. Do i walk to the owner and say "yes, i'd like to purchase a browing 1919 belt fed semi-auto version of the famous machine gun through u???????"

Depends on where you live.... if I were you I would contact Allied Armament (the people who make the gun- http://alliedarmament.homestead.com/B1919.html ) and ask for the nearest buyer. They can tell you which gun distributors or gun shops buy from them.

If you are near BakersHell contact 10%

50 Shooter
05-01-2007, 1:54 PM
Buy a kit and build your own 1919, 100% legal.

Michael303
05-01-2007, 3:36 PM
Oh that’s reassuring.

xenophobe
05-01-2007, 4:30 PM
So what did everyone do to make sure their M1919A4 was legal?

The M1919 in any configuration is legal. It is not a rifle, it is a firearm. Even ATF or DOJ (forget which) determined the A6 configuration was not considered a rifle, even with a pistol grip and stock, because it was designed as a crew served weapon.

AJAX22
05-01-2007, 5:11 PM
I have an 80% ohio rappid fire side plate and a nice 1919A4 kit that I'm waiting on an opportunity to build up.

It is 100% legal, its not a grey area or a loophole, its pretty straightforward really, I don't understand how they could have made such a bonehead move on the part of the DA's office with BWO.

This isn't some newfangled thing either, people have been buying/building these for years now.

DRH
05-01-2007, 5:34 PM
The DOJ approved these weapons for sale and use in the state almost seven years ago. The fact that they have not done their job in updating the AW guide to include this and other information is tragic.
http://img476.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kalye7.jpg

Allied Armament
05-01-2007, 5:50 PM
Someone called my shop today about this situation, is there anywhere where I can find more information about blackwater Ops situation I would like to send him all of the required information to help his cause.

Solidsnake87
05-01-2007, 5:53 PM
Thanks for that picture. As to the whole linked ammo thing, I don't care if they can't prove it was or was not linked before 2000. I'd rather just link 10 because any cop would you you are guilty as sin otherwise. I'd rather not play to the limit of the law.

I would not mind building a 1919 if it were cheaper (including tool costs) that the allied armament one. However, I have no clue how to build one nor do I know where to find instructions on building one. At this point I have my mind pretty much set on buying. It also comes with the benefit of a warranty and functionality when you buy.

DRH
05-01-2007, 6:02 PM
Someone called my shop today about this situation, is there anywhere where I can find more information about blackwater Ops situation I would like to send him all of the required information to help his cause.

James, I would contact his Lawyer and offer any assistance they might need in paperwork or information. Here is the website. http://www.tmllp.com/

50 Shooter
05-01-2007, 6:04 PM
www.1919a4.com all the info that you'll ever need is there.

naimad
05-01-2007, 6:31 PM
Someone called my shop today about this situation, is there anywhere where I can find more information about blackwater Ops situation I would like to send him all of the required information to help his cause.

WOW:eek: thats a serious post count you got there

Kestryll
05-01-2007, 6:41 PM
WOW:eek: thats a serious post count you got there

What do you mean? Nothing is wrong with his post count..... ;)

M. Sage
05-01-2007, 6:50 PM
So what did everyone do to make sure their M1919A4 was legal? Does the pistol grip on it meet the definition or is the web above the trigger sufficiently? Does the spade grips take care of that because the grip is not below the action of the firearm? What do you guys think?

Pistol grip doesn't matter, since it's not a rifle... Do you DROS an M1919 as a "rifle?" I don't think that's the way it is...

Jicko
05-01-2007, 6:50 PM
Not a "rifle", not a "pistol"... then what is it? "WMD"?

AJAX22
05-01-2007, 6:53 PM
Its considered by the ATF and regulatory agencys to be a 'crew served weapon'

there is actually a letter from the ATF that explains why it is exempt from SBR legislation as well as AOW regulation.

Japedo
05-01-2007, 7:08 PM
You can find that letter on this board, I've seen it posted on this website numerous times. It states something about the pistol grip being placed behind the action, instead of under the action, and that why it is legal here. I'd do a search but am lazy, someone will dig it up.

wilit
05-01-2007, 7:31 PM
Someone called my shop today about this situation, is there anywhere where I can find more information about blackwater Ops situation I would like to send him all of the required information to help his cause.

Now that's some awesome customer service. Thanks for supporting us that still live in the PRK.

M. Sage
05-01-2007, 7:34 PM
Not a "rifle", not a "pistol"... then what is it? "WMD"?

I'd heard they DROS as "firearm" or something like that.

Search up Bill's post about why we can buy .50 cal semi-auto M2 clones. He's much better at this stuff than me.

E Pluribus Unum
05-01-2007, 7:57 PM
I'd heard they DROS as "firearm" or something like that.

Search up Bill's post about why we can buy .50 cal semi-auto M2 clones. He's much better at this stuff than me.

It derives from the legal definition of a rifle. It describes it as "shoulder-fired".

Because the M2 an M1919 are not shoulder-fired, they are not rifles by legal definition.

-hanko
05-01-2007, 8:02 PM
WOW:eek: thats a serious post count you got there

:rolleyes: Huh??

This forum has never been sensitive to post count, starting way back before the first 2 crashes.

-hanko

E Pluribus Unum
05-01-2007, 8:04 PM
Because Blackwater was brought up on charges for selling/distributing assault weapons...make sure everything is legal.

Fee Fii Fo Fum.... I smell the blood of moderatum.... :)

psssniper
05-01-2007, 8:09 PM
got the DOJ 1919A4 letter printed off,
Oll's checked for compliance,
ducks in a row,
so now i'm waiting for the "meter reader" to kick in my door :)

50 Shooter
05-01-2007, 8:12 PM
Just make sure that the 10/22 you have is yours.:p :D

They'll hog tie you and take you away if not.;)

E Pluribus Unum
05-01-2007, 8:18 PM
got the DOJ 1919A4 letter printed off,
Oll's checked for compliance,
ducks in a row,
so now i'm waiting for the ATF to kick in my door :)

Thats not good enough.... you must immediately transfer all OLL and M1919 rifles into my name.... I am willing to take the risk.. :)

kantstudien
05-01-2007, 9:17 PM
I'd heard they DROS as "firearm" or something like that.


You heard wrongly. A firearm is DROSed as either a handgun or a long gun. There are several options for handgun DROS (PPT, C&R, Dealer, etc.), but the DROS for a M1919A4 would be a "long gun" DROS.

CSACANNONEER
05-01-2007, 9:23 PM
The M1919 in any configuration is legal. It is not a rifle, it is a firearm. Even ATF or DOJ (forget which) determined the A6 configuration was not considered a rifle, even with a pistol grip and stock, because it was designed as a crew served weapon.

I will err on the side of caution and will not put a flashhider on mine. But, that's because, I don't want to end up in jail on bogus charges.

M. Sage
05-01-2007, 9:24 PM
You heard wrongly. A firearm is DROSed as either a handgun or a long gun. There are several options for handgun DROS (PPT, C&R, Dealer, etc.), but the DROS for a M1919A4 would be a "long gun" DROS.

Ah, good call. Sorry about that.

Michael303
05-01-2007, 9:53 PM
From a personal standpoint, what disturbs me most about being a 1919 owner now is having to worry about a less than friendly visit from local law enforcement. Maybe I’m just over reacting, but in spite of all the documents and PC sections discussing how OLLs,, FALs and 1919s are legal, I am concerned that any one of us (espically me) could be railroaded like BWO. It seems that they will get you regardless of law or facts. And that really creeps me out.

69Mach1
05-01-2007, 10:25 PM
Well for those that took part in the group buy, I'd recommend that you also request that info. packet from Allied Armament just in case. Except for the Texan of course. It could still be an on-going investigation. I don't understand why ATF couldn't figure out it wasn't a machine gun in less than a day. They're supposed to be the "experts".

psssniper
05-02-2007, 12:31 AM
50shooter

I swear that Prince50 nabbed that 10/22, I was just an innocent bystander;)
geez I'll never live this down.................

Allied Armament
05-02-2007, 3:16 AM
Heres the original letter we received from the ATF.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e192/shadyirishmen/approvalletter19191.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e192/shadyirishmen/approvalletter19193.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e192/shadyirishmen/approvalletter1919.jpg

For anyone who has one of our 1919's its good to have this letter and every single letter from the 1919a4.com boards.

E Pluribus Unum
05-02-2007, 4:06 AM
Heres the original letter we received from the ATF.
For anyone who has one of our 1919's its good to have this letter and every single letter from the 1919a4.com boards.

Sounds good... do you have anything from Cal DOJ?

Nefarious
05-02-2007, 5:59 AM
Can anyone get the Approval letters to print out decent? Ive tried a couple of times here to have print up a respectable looking copy... and it keeps comming out like some hackjob

FreshTapCoke
05-02-2007, 1:57 PM
I don't understand why ATF couldn't figure out it wasn't a machine gun in less than a day. They're supposed to be the "experts".

My guess is they're trying to figure out how they can convince a jury that what he did was illegal.

leelaw
05-02-2007, 2:08 PM
I don't understand why ATF couldn't figure out it wasn't a machine gun in less than a day. They're supposed to be the "experts".

They must be letting Iggy take it to the range with a camera and a bag of tools. He's good at that kind of stuff, just ask his desk.

He'll be back whenever he gets it to fire fully auto.. the owner must have put some material in the way preventing it which required some filing to remove. That tricky owner. :rolleyes:

Hunter
05-02-2007, 3:09 PM
So what did everyone do to make sure their M1919A4 was legal? Does the pistol grip on it meet the definition or is the web above the trigger sufficiently? Does the spade grips take care of that because the grip is not below the action of the firearm? What do you guys think?

As DRH already pointed out, the CA -DOJ has approved these weapons (even as a semi-auto rifle) since they donot meet the requirements for a pistol grip. So all this talk about them being rifles or not is really a moot point.

http://img476.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kalye7.jpg

bwiese
05-02-2007, 3:21 PM
As DRH already pointed out, the CA DOJ has approved these weapons (even as a semi-auto rifle) since they do not meet the requirements for a pistol grip. So all this talk about them being rifles or not is really mute.

http://img476.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kalye7.jpg

Um, "moot", but the idea's right :)

Yeah, and this is also not a random Iggy approval-du-jour letter - it went out under the signature of the Director and the AG so it has full-bore weight.

guns_and_labs
05-02-2007, 3:37 PM
I always miss the cool stuff. Darn. There was even a group buy that I missed?

I need to get one of these... someone in the Bay Area must transfer them.

[Can they be mounted on a Prius?]

Nefarious
05-02-2007, 6:10 PM
I always miss the cool stuff. Darn. There was even a group buy that I missed?

I need to get one of these... someone in the Bay Area must transfer them.

[Can they be mounted on a Prius?]

Theres talks of another group buy - SHHHHHHHHHH

Isi_man_ica
06-26-2007, 1:10 PM
Hey Nefarious have you gotten it to print out good? I can get them printed out pretty well myself. I could mail you a copy if you want? Also AA got banned from 1919a4.com

Nefarious
06-26-2007, 1:22 PM
Hey Nefarious have you gotten it to print out good? I can get them printed out pretty well myself. I could mail you a copy if you want? Also AA got banned from 1919a4.com

James actually mailed us photocopies of the originals - I made LOTS of copies :D. Now that im saying that... I have no idea where I put them ;)

Did he get banned over that closed sticked thread HAHAH ... something about swapping out parts not suposedly approved? And that our 1919's could suposedly be illegal. I was going to mention that there has already been a test case for the AA build here in Cali - but thread closed

AJAX22
06-26-2007, 2:37 PM
Does anyone know of a Build party or CA machinist who does work on the internals? I keep feeling the urge to throw mine togeather.

Hunter
06-26-2007, 3:51 PM
Does anyone know of a Build party or CA machinist who does work on the internals? I keep feeling the urge to throw mine togeather.

I sent my 1919 internals out to a fellow back east (I have his name/number if you need it). Cost was $90 machined and shipped back to me. I looked into getting the necessary tooling to do my own as I have a mill and it would have cost me about the same plus the learning time, setup time, jigs ect.... Turn around from him was 1 week. Keep in mind that $90 only pays for about 1.5 hrs of a machinist's time here in CA, so finding a person to do it could be more expensive if they don't already have the carbide fly cutters and such and are setup to handle these bolts/accelertors/trigger frames.

Nefarious
06-26-2007, 6:51 PM
Does anyone know of a Build party or CA machinist who does work on the internals? I keep feeling the urge to throw mine togeather.

Theres a guy over on the 1919 forums with a tremendous rep for building 1919's.
He used to sell them, but has decided to stop - he will still build up if you send him the parts.

Look him up.. his name is John B McGuire www.1919a4.com

pnkssbtz
06-26-2007, 7:08 PM
11 round + links are cool if they were assembled before 2000 (no way to tell).

He was not charged with that.


The rifle is legal but the cops are ignorant. Its not a bad idea to buy one. Its a bad idea to buy one and the simulate full-auto fire by bump firing it, taking video and upload it to myspace. Then have comments on your myspace about killing people. That might get you undo attention.

A tad of exaggeration =P

If I quote apocalypse now, does that mean that I just went and napalmed a bunch of villages in vietnam?

What if I quote Star Wars with a video of me "shooting a heavy repeating blaster" and blowing up some "government buildings", did i just commit a terroristic act?


It's Myspace. It means nothing and is most likely fictitious. I mean, how many pot smokers post pictures of them smoking bongs on myspace?

1919_4_ME
06-26-2007, 7:32 PM
For all your 1919 machining contact Brian at BLPenley@AOL.com .He also sells the KMP trigger and sears so you can get everything from him.
:chris:

E Pluribus Unum
06-26-2007, 7:52 PM
A tad of exaggeration =P

If I quote apocalypse now, does that mean that I just went and napalmed a bunch of villages in vietnam?

What if I quote Star Wars with a video of me "shooting a heavy repeating blaster" and blowing up some "government buildings", did i just commit a terroristic act?


It's Myspace. It means nothing and is most likely fictitious. I mean, how many pot smokers post pictures of them smoking bongs on myspace?

You'll get no argument here; that being said... This was a couple weeks after Virginia Tech; that myspace page was fine by my standards but it was enough to freak out the average liberal. La being the second liberal capital of the state it was not surprising that the ignorant DA filed charges.

pnkssbtz
06-26-2007, 8:35 PM
You'll get no argument here; that being said... This was a couple weeks after Virginia Tech; that myspace page was fine by my standards but it was enough to freak out the average liberal. La being the second liberal capital of the state it was not surprising that the ignorant DA filed charges.

Ok, sorry for sidetracking your thread =P

Hunter
06-26-2007, 8:44 PM
For all your 1919 machining contact Brian at BLPenley@AOL.com .He also sells the KMP trigger and sears so you can get everything from him.
:chris:

That's the man!

I highly recommend him for his price (low), quality (very high) and speediness (very fast)!

50BMGBOB
06-27-2007, 4:36 AM
Big +1. Brian did mine and even did a sppedy replacement part when I broke a part later.

Isi_man_ica
06-27-2007, 5:33 AM
James actually mailed us photocopies of the originals - I made LOTS of copies :D. Now that im saying that... I have no idea where I put them ;)

Did he get banned over that closed sticked thread HAHAH ... something about swapping out parts not suposedly approved? And that our 1919's could suposedly be illegal. I was going to mention that there has already been a test case for the AA build here in Cali - but thread closed

Yeah I mentioned that in a PM to the guy but I think that there is more going on from both sides. I don't know the whole story but knowing how things go for you guys in the Communist Rpublic of California, I think the ATF and cali would have been all over it like white on rice.

Pokey
06-27-2007, 9:34 AM
I sent my 1919 internals out to a fellow back east (I have his name/number if you need it). Cost was $90 machined and shipped back to me. I looked into getting the necessary tooling to do my own as I have a mill and it would have cost me about the same plus the learning time, setup time, jigs ect.... Turn around from him was 1 week. Keep in mind that $90 only pays for about 1.5 hrs of a machinist's time here in CA, so finding a person to do it could be more expensive if they don't already have the carbide fly cutters and such and are setup to handle these bolts/accelertors/trigger frames.

That sounds like the guy I used (I have his name somewhere). He did great work, provided excellent service and turn around was great too. Plus you can get the semi trigger and sear from him in a package deal. I'll have to look up his name.
His name is Brian, here is contact info. BLPenley@aol.com

Pokey
06-27-2007, 9:38 AM
Oops, a couple of you beat me to it.:sleeping::D

tlillard23
06-27-2007, 9:59 AM
For all your 1919 machining contact Brian at BLPenley@AOL.com .He also sells the KMP trigger and sears so you can get everything from him.
:chris:

I have one complaint about Brian, he got my parts back to me too quickly. i thought I would have time to get some $$ saved for ammo. :D