PDA

View Full Version : ** Tips for "new members" / "have a question about X(eg. CA legal AR)" **


Jicko
05-01-2007, 11:10 AM
*Welcome* to the family....


***** This is NOT a question and answer thread, DO NOT post questions here, go to the appropriate forum *****


OLL/AW/legal tips
> California Assault Weapons Laws: Legal Issues Involving “Off-list” AR-type & AK-type Rifles (Bwiese's memo explained it very clearly, you can cross-reference to DOJ's AW guide, but I really don't think you would want to read thru the actual Harrott's ruling) Bwiese's MEMO - copmemo2.pdf (http://www.calguns.net/copmemo2.pdf) and CA DOJ/BoF's Assault Weapon ID Guide (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf) and Supreme Court ruling on Harrott vs Kings County (http://www.rkba.org/judicial/harrott-kings-county-casupct.pdf) and Declaration of CA DOJ Special Agent Supv Ignatius Chinn in support of a "screw-fixed" magazine is NOT a "detachable magazine" (page 9 line 10) (http://calgunlaws.com/Docs/ASSAULT%20WEAPONS/Cal%20Regulations/NRA-HuntPDecOfIgnatiusChinn061205.PDF) (Please note that, as of Dec 2008, Bwiese's original Apr 2006 COP MEMO is OUTDATED.... the SacPD memo and the flowchart is more up today. -Jicko)

> A memo from a detective of the Sacramento PD, covers BB/maglock legality:
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Sacramento-PD-OLL_Training_Bulletin-2008-11-18.pdf

> AW(Assault Weapon) ID Flowchart: Very easy to follow (http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.html)

> Great advice from CGF Board Member CASE STUDY: How NOT to get arrested on an AW charge (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=2113780)

> CA Legal AR/AK FAQ: a_california_arak.htm (http://calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm); a *little* outdated, pending Bill's update, mainly on the legality of the "Bullet-Button" (read below)

> What is OLL: Off-List-Lower "Receiver",the only part of an AR15(can also be AK or other receivers) that is considered a "firearm"(and it is serialized), hence, to purchase it, you have to go thru a FFL(federal firearm license) dealer

> Who's OFF the " List ": this thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=34397) (this thread only contains some examples, there are many more these days....)

> Who's ON the " List ": this thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=53892)

> What about Large / High Capacity Magazine: (1) Using Them (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#5) and (2) Replacement Parts / DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf (http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf)

> Where to BUY X(eg. AR lowers or AK receivers): go to "Commerical Sales" forum and use the "Search this forum" feature this forum (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=105) & type in "AK47" or "OLL" or "AR-15" [tips for vendors, make sure your post turn up with these keywords] or check out the vendors who are on the top of this page....

> List of FFLs and their fees: here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=63050)

> Lastest way for "Fixed mag" Rifle, what is Bullet-Tip-Mag-Lock aka Bullet-Button: (1) original BB design (w/ gfx) (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=45322) (2) Gene/Hoffmang original explanation (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=45321) (3) 1st commerical implementation by Prince50 (w/ pic) (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=46802)

> A non-pistol-grip, what is MMG aka MonsterMan Grip (avail for both AR & AK): The Improved MMG (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=50876); with this, and no evil-features (ie. no pistol grip, no telescoping stock, no fwd pistol grip, no flash hider), you CAN use detachable magazines!!

> A "strange looking yet feels good"(according to many) rifle stock for AR15, what is U-15:
check this out (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=42322)

>Exile Machine Hammerhead Rifle Stock Adapter / Grip. Lets you hold your AR like a wooden rifle. Can be configured many different ways:
www.exilemachine.com

> Overview of different ways to build California legal rifles: here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=42478)



Calguns.net tips
> Using SEARCH: if you have a question about something, there is a "Search this forum" feature within each forum, or a "Search / Advanced Search" on top. Try it first. :D (this feature only works for registered members)

> Use GOOGLE: if "search" doesn't seem to give you THE answers, you can try using GOOGLE. Put in "<your keywords> site:calguns.net" in google. e.g. "FUD OLL site:calguns.net"

> In order to see MORE posts in some forums: go to your "User CP", "Edit Options", "Thread Display Options", change your "Default Thread Age Cut Off" to "last 2 weeks" or "last month" or longer..... some forums have defaulted to "last day" which will only show a very limited number of posts

> Acronyms: some are used ONLY here. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=61838)



AR tips
> First of all, M16A2 Operator's Manual (http://www.ar15.com/content/manuals/TM9-1005-319-10.pdf) and AR15 Operation and Safety Instruction Manual (by Bushmaster) (http://www.ar15.com/content/manuals/manual_bushmaster.pdf)

> AR15 Anatomy Animation.... (by Bushmaster) Zoom in once, view the "glass" or "split". (http://www.bushmaster.com/anatomy_bushmaster.asp)

> A 6min video by Cavalry Arms: Basic AR-15 Operations (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqxraAQ55W0&feature=PlayList&p=649DF361BBDD5233&index=11) and Firearm Safety (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO-xoVE_VJQ&feature=PlayList&p=649DF361BBDD5233&index=12)

> Important: AR15 Safety Function Check (http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/functioncheck.msnw)

> 10min Video intro to AR15 takedown on youtube (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=96908)

> What 223 rifle options? (tons of pics): this thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=26726), go thru these 1200+ posts first, if you STILL haven't find one.... then use "Search"... then ask in "The Riflesmans Forum"

> Q about 2 Stage / Match Triggers: this thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=54922); and a detailed AR trigger comparison on Sniper's Hide (http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=501733#Post501733)

> What Ammo, Barrel Twist rate: In general, best place to get answers about 223 ammo is Ammo on ar15.com (http://ammo.ar15.com); and about ammo recommendations this thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=51500); and about twist rate / 1x7 vs 1x9 an old thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=26518) newer thread, more on 1x7 vs 1x9, lots of good info (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=58204)

> Which muzzle device: brake (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=45939) or this detailed review with video on brake, flash hider & fake cans (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=49684) or this about muzzle brake and some good info (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=605907)

> Where to shoot, ie. indoor & outdoor shooting ranges: google map'ed (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=34480)

> Different AR lowers manufacturers: detailed comparison (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=50947)

> How to assemble a lower assembly: ar15.com got great info (http://ar15.com/content/guides/assembly/lower/) CALGUNs' guide (http://www.calguns.net/OLL/assembly.html) Video Tutorial (http://www.jcweaponry.com/videos/AR15_Assembly.wmv)and an upper assembly + barrel: a Great PDF on "how to build an upper assembly" (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=54921)

> Thinking about reloading: Econ 101 (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=54957) and Quick list (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=415349&postcount=7) and More about what you need (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=55286) and lower cost non-progressive approach from a beginner's POV (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=60848) and tips: Reloading for Semi-auto/Service Rifle by Sierra (http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/gasgunreload.cfm) and Introduction to Reloading (http://www.surplusrifle.com/reloading/index.asp)

> Now, I've got my AR, how to clean it? Here it is (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=54227) and a recent dupe (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=59251)

> Zero'ing your rilfe: AR and other rifles (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=82650)

> Field Spare kit: a couple of spare parts you can get, and may take you a long way (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=188241)

*cheers*



Old timers: please submit your tips, so that we can compile a list for our "newer" members.

(please feel free to comment on my posted tips, and if you know of better thread than the one i linked, please let me know, i will try to consolidate useful tips in this first post)

Jicko
05-01-2007, 5:23 PM
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8398/pic24bd0.jpg

:xeno:

:D

(hmmmm msg is too short?)

RudyN
07-18-2007, 2:20 PM
This is what I was looking for as I am getting ready to build my second AR. It will make it a lot easier to get it done "California Legal"

paradox
07-18-2007, 3:41 PM
Picture thread of the various DIY and commercial compliance parts:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=42478

chiefcrash
07-19-2007, 8:08 AM
you might want to add this to the Reloading section: http://www.surplusrifle.com/reloading/index.asp

It's a really good primer to help a newbie break through the "mystical barrier" into reloading...

htpeters
07-27-2007, 9:17 AM
I'm a newby here but not to this world or the world of shooters and reloaders. 65, 52,35.

I would like to get advise on dealing with S&W regarding my 500 mag that blew up. I was shooting moderate reloads. I've been shooting and reloading a long time and never ran into anything like this before. Where to look, what to do? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jicko
07-27-2007, 9:43 AM
I'm a newby here but not to this world or the world of shooters and reloaders. 65, 52,35.

I would like to get advise on dealing with S&W regarding my 500 mag that blew up. I was shooting moderate reloads. I've been shooting and reloading a long time and never ran into anything like this before. Where to look, what to do? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Post details on the "reloading" forum:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=89

Describe the incident, if you have pics, post them.

Then describe your reloading process, how old is the brass(# of reloads), where did the brass came from(random range pickup? or you had that brass since it was new). Tell us your powder, wt., bullet, brass-make, etc...

532Fastback
11-21-2007, 8:38 PM
Hello i am new, looking for info on building an AR. I have a bunch of questions and i'll ask them if i have any problems finding the answers.
Thanks

Kickboxer
12-05-2007, 5:10 PM
I am new to this forum. Looking for suggestions for sights for a .458 Lott Ruger #1 Tropical. I really like the idea of open sights, but the Ruger #1 "stock" sights are not very good in low light...daylight great, didn't even have to adjust for 100 yd zero with 500gr/2300fpsMV/5700ft/lbME.
This is my first "big bore" rifle...I know, its a "dangerous game" rifle, but I got a great deal on it, new ITB, unfired. I just killed an 8point buck with it (Alabama, 175lb, 130lb field dressed) the first 90 minutes I hunted with it. I love it and intend to hunt exclusively with it this year. Absolutely, fastest, most devastating kill I have ever seen. Taking it hog hunting on two trips to Texas in '08. I would really prefer something with BDC. However, my real first choice would be good low-light open/peep sights. Anyone??

aplinker
01-15-2008, 3:40 PM
Couple of suggestions...

Can we PLEASE either remove or update the AR/AK stuff that's on the home page (not the forum). It's so outdated and causes a ton of confusion. It's good from a history standpoint, but misses lots that's since been changed. Its location gives it considerable weight as the "whole truth."

Add the nice new flow charts

Add a couple of the newer DOJ letters.

The video of lower assembly is nice, too.

I just wanted to add that this thread is so, so useful and I appreciate it and your keeping it up to date. THANKS!

aplinker
03-17-2008, 9:07 PM
Add this video to the lower assembly guide.

http://www.jcweaponry.com/videos/AR15_Assembly.wmv

huck
04-25-2008, 12:32 PM
The ammo-oracle.com reference is no good anymore. They have replaced it with this one: http://ammo.ar15.com/

Please update the OP.

aplinker
04-25-2008, 10:12 PM
So, you want to build an AR and you're a n00b?

Be sure you've read through an UNDERSTAND all of the above.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=63

These are also VERY helpful:
http://www.tenpercentfirearms.com/index.php?main_page=ar15
http://blog.riflegear.com/articles/building-a-california--legal-ar-15-rifle.aspx


Now, the point of this is to get you started. As always, search is your friend. Please spend some time reading before asking the basic questions! We'll all appreciate you for it. Have fun!
(at the bottom of the post, note where to post feedback)


Please note: this is not a dedicated thread for building a combat/hard-use type gun, though some of these considerations are also mentioned here. If you're wanting to build an extremely reliable gun I highly recommend m4carbine.net as an excellent resource. This thread (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7009) has a wealth of information, as does this (http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642) and this (http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7376).
__________________________________________________ ___

The first big step is to purchase & DROS a good forged lower, using the detailed comparison from the thread above (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=50947) (bottom line - anything but Hesse/Vulcan is good - pick a roll mark/animal/picture/logo you like - just make sure it's off-list!). Billet lowers have become much more common. Their primary difference is they're formed from a block of forged aluminum rather than from an AR Lower-specific forging, which affords the cutter more latitude in how the lower is made.

You will need to decide on your rifle compliance type: a so-called featureless rifle or if you want a locked mag build. If you want to lock the mag and have features, nothing to date beats the Prince50 Bullet Button for ease of use and install - as well as looking very nice. There are a multitude of threads discussing the benefits/drawbacks of each style and variation. I'll leave that to your searching & understanding you've gleaned from the threads in the 1st post above.

Now it's time to select/gather the following build parts:

1.) Lower
2.) CA compliance parts (either Bullet Button, MonsterMan Grip, modified kydex grip "wing", Hammerhead, U-15 Stock etc.)
2.) Lower parts kit (LPK)
3.) Buttstock kit (stock, receiver extension/buffer tube, buffer spring and buffer)
4.) Complete upper
5.) magazine
6.) sights
Optional: Optics, free-float handguard, upgraded grip, sling, mounts, upgraded muzzle device, etc.

Upper Parameters:

0.) Upper brands: You're going to feel overloaded with info from many sides and will instinctively want to ask, "What brand of upper should I buy?" This shouldn't be your 1st question. Read the following, then we'll revisit brands.

02.) Upper type (flat-top or permanent A2 carry handle): unless you're building retro rifle, use a flat-top. In the modern optics age the flexibility is the only choice.

1.) Barrel length & profile: For the vast majority of shooters we recommend a 16" barrel. It's a good compromise between velocity, controllability, weight and flexibility. The flexibility comes from the 16" barrel requirement Federally for ALL rifles. If a barrel less than 16" were used the muzzle device would need to be PERMANENTLY attached, which would prevent the user from swapping out between, say, a brake (for a featureless build) or upgrading down the road (such as installation of a free-float rail) without visiting a gunsmith. Shorter barrels allow for more control, lighter weight (when shooting on the move) and better maneuverability in confined spaces. Longer barrels enhance velocity, effective range and improves long range accuracy. It might be surprising, but shorter and stiffer barrels are far more accurate at short ranges. Longer barrels improve their deficiencies in intrinsic accuracy at long ranges by causing the bullets to be less effected by wind/conditions/operator error - due to their higher velocity. The question of barrel length is also a question of how you intend to shoot. Longer, heavier barrels are best suited for shooting from fixed positions (bench, prone, etc.). Again, the 16" barrel tends to be a good compromise for most people looking for a flexible gun as their 1st AR. Barrel profile affects stiffness (which helps with accuracy) while lighter profiles reduce weight. Longer barrels will need heavier profiles relative to shorter barrels (which means you're double adding weight) for the same accuracy, due to barrel whip. With chrome-lined barrels inherent accuracy will be limited by the chrome lining, so a very heavy barrel is unnecessary. Here are some images of barrel profiles. (http://ar15barrels.com/profiles.shtml)

2.) Barrel material: There are essentially two choices: steel (chrome-moly) and stainless steel. For ALL regular steel barrels, chrome lining is practically mandatory. It prevents the build-up of carbon fouling, facilitates extraction, eases cleaning, reduces friction, enhances barrel life and helps with the reliability of the system. For the tiny price you pay for it, it pays big dividends in preventing frustration. Stainless steel has improved accuracy over a chrome-lined steel barrel, but is slightly less durable - especially under full-auto fire, but that's pretty much meaningless for us. Stainless barrels are certainly the better choice for longer barrels where accuracy is required, such as (18"+) when building a varmint-type rig or competition rifle. It also shares the eased cleaning, slickness, etc, with chrome-lined. (Please do not mix up so-called "chrome-moly" barrels with "chrome-lined"). Please note that there is much discussion about chrome-moly barrel material (4140 vs 4150) that is outside the scope of this article, but can be found deeply discussed in the "hard use" threads mentioned above.

3.) Gas system: There are 3 primary types for rifles: carbine, mid-length and rifle. The link below has an excellent primer on gas systems. Suffice to say that you should go with the longest gas system feasible. In CA, for any of the shorter practical barrel lengths (14.5"-17") a mid-length gas system is the best choice. Carbines have many associated problems due to higher pressure and shorter dwell times (and added fixes to prevent them {heavy buffers, enhanced bolts & extractors, etc}) - it's best just to avoid them in the first place, especially since a change in gas system is essentially free. Once you reach 17-18" in length, a rifle gas system is the best choice.
http://ar15barrels.com/prod/gas-systems.shtml

3B.) Gas block: See "front sights" below. The gas block functions to attach the gas tube to the barrel. There is little "specialty function" to this, so the discussion is below, as in many cases it is also the location of the front sight. The one exception is adjustable gas blocks, but these are primarily of use for tuned guns (competition) and the use of suppressors.

4.) Barrel twist & chambering: For a combat AR (chrome-moly) a 5.56 chambering is most often offered and a good choice, while a .223 Wylde is an excellent choice for accuracy builds. True .223 chamberings can lead to reliability and/or overpressure issues. For twist, 1/7 is the choice for 55-77+gr projectiles, 1/9 is for 45-62gr. These are simply "rules of thumb." It's a fallacy that it's actually the mass that creates different twist needs, rather than length, but there's a correlation between length and weight and the ease of use of the commonly used bullet masses has perpetuated this conception. 1/8 is generally ideal, but most often found only in match-style stainless barrels. For more info go here:
http://ammo.ar15.com/#twists


---> VVVVVV CONTINUED BELOW VVVVVVVVVV




**PS - DO NOT ASK AR QUESTIONS IN THIS THREAD - it's not its purpose (use the Rifleman's forum or post in the thread linked below)***
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=98275

aplinker
04-25-2008, 10:32 PM
5.) Now, back to brands. First off, please start with a reputable company. In order of quality AR-style rifles are best from (approximate relative quality): Colt, Noveske, LMT, CMMG, RRA, Bushmaster, Stag. We realize not all people can afford Noveske, Colt or LMT. Because of the availability of mid-length gas uppers and 1/7 twist, we recommend CMMG for budget rifles. Given the tiny price difference between most other comparable or lesser builders, the mid-length gas system from CMMG is the least likely to give you problems. If you insist on a carbine, we suggest LMT for its improved QC over other manufacturers. Ultimately, Colt would be better, but the cost can be prohibitive. Rock River Arms has many options available, like CMMG, and is also an appropriate choice, though lesser than CMMG. Stag only makes carbines and these will have 1/9 twist barrels.

So, now you've selected an upper...

Buttstocks: This will be determined, in part, by your barrel choice and compliance type (MMG or BB). For a fixed, very solid stock the A2 is nice and can be purchased very reasonably in cost. Most people prefer collapsible stocks. Cheap versions are available, but the collapsibility can bring the price of being less stable. As you move to higher quality (RRA collapsible -> Magpul CTR -> VLTOR EMOD -> LMT SOPMOD -> Magpul UBR) they will have less movement and wiggle. If possible, try them out. In all cases, try to get a mil-spec buffer tube, as this will give you more flexibility in the future. The CTR is probably the best "compromise" stock between cost and quality. The SOPMOD is fantastic, as is the EMOD. Much personal preference will come into play here. The UBR is very heavy.

Sights Front: The standard post front sight base is very economical and usable. Some people prefer flip sights to prevent occluding the view through optics. You will need to make this choice when purchasing your upper. The gas block will either be this standard post, a picatinny railed block, or you can have a low-profile gas block that goes under a free-float handguard. In this case the sights will be mounted to the rail. Troy makes excellent flip sights. GG&G, Knight's Armament, MI and others are out there. Sights are your eye's connection to the rifle. The best choice is to get the standard FSB if you're on a budget. It's sturdy and works well.
Rear: Fixed sights include the detachable carry handle, LaRue, LMT and others. They are less flexible and reduce your options with optics. Again, the usual suspects are good flip-sights (Troy, GGG, KAC, MI), with the addition of the Matech. The Matech is USGI and can often be found cheap (~$60) and would be a good choice for a budget AR.

LPK: Rock River Arms LPKs are universally considered better and easier to install. Armalite are also excellent (and my personal favorite). Stag, CMMG and DPMS are all serviceable, as well. You can save yourself some pain, though, by choosing RRA or Armalite.

Triggers: If you can afford to splurge, get the RRA 2-Stage (or Armalite NM 2-stage) trigger. It's a worthwhile upgrade and will greatly enhance your ability to shoot and enjoyment.

Magazines: 10rd mags are available from C-Products. 10/30 mags are available from Stag and C-Products. 10/20s are from ProMag (often shown as Armalite, Bushmaster, or others). There's a lot of cross-branding here. 10/30 Magpul PMAGS, Lancers and others are also available. Magpul followers rule the day for reliability.

Handguard: Plastic handguards are fine, though not as attractive (both in workings and looks) as free-float handguards. Decide whether you want a Free float handguard. They do improve accuracy, but if you have to make the choice, get a trigger before you upgrade this. The most highly regarded are Daniel Defense Lite Rails and LaRue Handguards. Troy, MI and others also make nice ones. I would highly recommend the DD Lite - it has a great feel and nicely made.

Optics: Suffice to say a TON has been written on this. Use search. Your two basic options are 1X reflex-type sights (Aimpoint, EOTech, Trij Reflex & clones) and magnified optics (broken into two basic types - fixed and variable). I would HIGHLY recommend you get to know your irons before buying. If you have a lot of money, get the Elcan SpecterDR :) Here's an EXCELLENT resource:
http://demigodllc.com/articles/fighting-carbine-optics-short-guide/


Special notes: I would say the biggest places not to scrimp on an AR build are: upper (especially the barrel and BCG), the trigger, the buttstock and the sights. How those inter-play is up to you. Upper is by far #1. No matter how good the other parts are, if you have a bad upper, nothing will save you. Some useful small upgrades are things like PRI's big latch, the Magpul MIAD grip, Vickers Tactical Sling, Troy sling mounts with QD, TangoDown VFG or LaRue, etc...


PLEASE - Support the vendors who support us!
http://www.calguns.net/Sponsors.html
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=75

Hope this was helpful... ENJOY!




**PS - DO NOT ASK AR QUESTIONS IN THIS THREAD - it's not its purpose (use the Rifleman's forum or post in the thread linked below)***
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=98275

My short write-up on how to make a compliant rifle:
This write-up is meant to describe how to avoid building a legal receiver as a type-3 assault weapon.

As such, it assumes you're not building on a receiver listed in the original Roberti-Roos (type 1) list or the Kasler list (type 2). Listing is now required for type 2 AW (series) by the Harrot case and the Kasler list is now static, due to DOJ giving up that right.

That leaves type 3 AWs. By not falling under the classifications by features listed in the penal code we're able to build our guns to be legally compliant and not considered an AW. This goes for any rifle type - if it doesn't fall into type 1, 2 or 3 and is not a 50BMG rifle.

Here's the 1st section:
12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276,
"assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the
capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of
the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously
beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.

What this says is that, assuming the gun is not an AW by 12276 (i.e., listed by make and model) it can still be an AW if it has any features and is built adhering to the definition given.

The 1st sentence contains 3 conditions: the rifle is semi-automatic, centerfire and with a detachable magazine. The 4th condition is having any (or all) of the features listed. To build an assault weapon by features the rifle must contain all conditions from the first sentence (semi-auto, centerfire and detachable mags) along with at least one of the features listed.

This gives us 4 ways to avoid having an assault weapon, as avoiding any one of these 4 conditions prevents meeting this definition of type-3 assault weapon.

Thus, most of the guns you see here are built either:
S1.) Having no features listed above (MMG, U-15, M1A, Saiga)
S2.) Using a bullet button (or Prince50, JumboPandaLock, Raddlock, JJPerl) to lock the magazine in place, thus allowing the rifle to have those features.
S3.) Building the rifle for .22lr (notice the definition says centerfire)
S4.) A gas system that doesn't operate (bolt-action repeater instead of semi-auto)

Lastly, there are conditions that must be met for the above types of rifles:
12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276,
"assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic..... (snip)
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a
fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10
rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an
overall length of less than 30 inches.

Now it's important to match these two additional conditions where they have relevance.

12276.1(a)-2 only applies to a fixed magazine rifle (S2 types from above - bullet button, SKS, etc) types. It requires that the magazine used only be 10rds or less. Thus, it only applies to our non-detachable magazine varieties. All other types can have any capacity available to them* (see below) Styles S1, S3 and S4 would not fall under this requirement and would be allowed to use those magazines.

12276.1(a)-3 only applies to semi-auto centerfire rifles. This includes both featureless and fixed-magazine rifles (S1 and S2 from above). That means they would need to be over 30" OAL (when measured with the stock collapsed or folded by CA court case law). Both styles of rifles that are non-semi-auto repeater (S4) or rimfire (S3) would only fall under california's definition for needing all long guns over 26" (with stock folded or collapsed).

Lastly, the rifle can not be capable of chambering the 50BMG cartridge, as described in 12278.



That concludes ALL possible ways to make an assault weapon rifle (not pistol or shotgun) in California.

Sheki
07-01-2008, 11:05 PM
Hello. I'm new to forums and I just wanted to find out what certain acroyms mean.... I've been looking at the marketplace and here are some acroynms:

bump:
ttt:
btt:
spf: sold pending funds?

and others I can't think off hand.
I would greatly appreciate your input in these acroyms and would appreciate them...
Thanks...

Z ME FLY
07-02-2008, 10:00 AM
bump.... bump the thread to the top
ttt... to the top
btt... back to the top

TWOMP
08-13-2008, 8:32 AM
nice thread

mievil
09-13-2008, 7:24 PM
> A 6min video by Cavalry Arms: Basic AR-15 Operations (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqxraAQ55W0&feature=PlayList&p=649DF361BBDD5233&index=11) and Firearm Safety (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO-xoVE_VJQ&feature=PlayList&p=649DF361BBDD5233&index=12)


This video has been removed by the user.

Left Coast WRX
10-03-2008, 4:15 AM
Hello

Here is my request/situation… My family has owned a fairly large farm (3,700 acres) in SE Washington for about 130 year+. As all good things must come to an end, we are selling the farm… It is a hard decision but there is just no one left to run the farm.

I am looking for some information on a handful for firearms that have been in my family for as long as any of can remember and I am looking for some information. I have model and serial numbers, but I am not sure where to go to get good credible information on these firearms.

Can someone point me in the right direction?

junior08
11-13-2008, 10:06 AM
Can anyone who's sure! Tell me what the laws are if I find someone interested in my small amount of amo, to ship?
Can I ship amo?
Anything I need to do differently than any other package?

Thanks,
Gary

billyjoblack
11-13-2008, 10:21 AM
How about a ((detailed comparison)) of complete uppers?

Mad Geek
11-24-2008, 6:16 PM
Read This Post:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=56818

MRpink
01-28-2009, 10:14 PM
To buy a handgun, you need to be 21 and have a handgun safety certificate. What do you need to buy a rifle?

Fantasma
01-28-2009, 10:35 PM
Tip. Don't copy the avatars already being used...

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" - Not true...

:p

1911 crazed
02-16-2009, 7:57 PM
Well? Good know Iam on the "off list" however still have tons of questions to ask. Can anyone help? New to this so please don't get mad if I posted or did a reply in the wrong area or time.

1911 crazed
02-16-2009, 8:07 PM
I have an AR15 S&W M&P lower and from what I have seen I guess it may look "evil" however I still I'm going to need to move to Cali and I need help on what I need to do to make it legal for the state. I under stand that if it has a adj. stock, front grip, and pistol grip I will need to do a ten mag holder to prevent the mag from coming out without the use of a tool?? So please help in plan english on how I am to do all this and still be legal? I do not live in CA. yet so I still have some time to make this all work. My guns will never be for sale so to fix them is my only choice.

elrcastor
02-16-2009, 8:50 PM
here's a couple of parts

http://www.riflegear.com/p-58-bullet-button.aspx

http://www.riflegear.com/p-354-california-rifles-b-16-bullet-button.aspx

USMC VET
03-06-2009, 12:02 PM
Fantastic Post!!!!! This is a huge help for someone looking to build their first AR, although it's a shame we have to build our own anyways but great info!

Jicko
03-10-2009, 10:51 AM
why doesn't search work quite right?
where can I get hk91 parts and assembly instructions or have one assembled in sacto?

***** This is NOT a question and answer thread, DO NOT post questions here, go to the appropriate forum *****

How can anyone help you, if you do not READ!?

nsmdoc
03-18-2009, 12:42 PM
http://www.gunlaws.com/GunLawUpdate3.htm
http://pagenine.typepad.com/page_nine/2009/01/gun-ban-list-proposed.html
both to do with the new definitions on new gun bans and accesories

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GonhNTvy4vs

bartt
03-26-2009, 10:46 AM
Quick note..
The MSN groups appear to be dead, which renders some of the links on the first page unreachable. Perhaps someone can review them and post updated links?
broken link...
> Important: AR15 Safety Function Check

ALMOSTxFAMOUS
04-20-2009, 11:35 AM
Hey wassup guys! New here on calguns.net and I can't wait to start my first build! I also added a store to the Google OLL list. The store is called Cobra Tactical located in Santa Clarita, CA. check them out they carry Kaiser Defense lower. Planning to pick one up from them but im still shopping around.

http://www.cobratactical.com/

Swatter911
04-23-2009, 3:41 PM
Hello! I just registered here for Calguns after being a long term lurker. I'm interested in preserving my Second Amendment rights and in sharing my love of shooting. I've been a LEO for over 20 years and believe I have absolutely nothing to fear from armed citizens. The information I've gleaned from Calguns I have shared with my coworkers in order to serve our fellow citizens better.

Thanks, I know this is an exciting time to be a gun owner in California.

the big ravioli
05-04-2009, 12:50 PM
How can I add a photo to my name?

Thanks
TBR

salasrasta
05-23-2009, 2:57 AM
Hey all just be careful on where you plan on taking your AR or Saigas or Ak's because I just left Rogers Relics and she just got subpoena (Lisa) because some guy in Monterey county got caught with legal AR and is getting charged. Since she did transfer maybe charge her. She did make the mistake in agreeing with DA when he said she sold the gun. But in all truth she just did transfer. All just be careful legal or not. To some cops these are just ASSAULT weapons. What was funny thought is that Lisa did say the guys came in with 3 friends all getting same gun and one was a Seaside PD officer so WTF!!!! Hope the best For You LISA and ROGERS RELICS. LOVE YOU GUYS>

ruffstock
06-05-2009, 11:28 PM
New to forum and was wondering if anyone knew what all the short hand lingo is that people are submitting , ie. bump, bbt, pm etc. Its driving me crazy not knowing the code

ruffstock
06-05-2009, 11:36 PM
You would be suprised how many law enforcement folks dont know the *** from a hole in the ground when it comes to firearms and the Ca. laws. Before all you L.E. folks get offended understand that most of my friends are peace officers and I love you guys to death but I can tell you how many times Ive been to functions and we start talking guns and as soon as they here AR or AK most of them ask if I got it preban and when I explian no they then follow up with well how is it legal then. Again Im not trying to put them down but dammit get yourself hip to what is going on in Ca. especially since they are legal to own meaning theres more of a chance that you will run into them in the hands of good and bad folks.

ruffstock
06-05-2009, 11:40 PM
BTW everyone really needs to understand the laws for transporting weapons. Ammo and guns seperate, guns with cable locks or in a locked case. This might be one of the reasons all that stuff went down with the thread you mentioned. I can tell you how many times people show up to the range with the shooting bags that contain the ammo and guns side by side. You might as well load the magazine ( not clip ) and keep it loaded in the gun as far as a cop's point of view.

Librarian
06-06-2009, 10:51 AM
BTW everyone really needs to understand the laws for transporting weapons. Ammo and guns seperate, guns with cable locks or in a locked case. This might be one of the reasons all that stuff went down with the thread you mentioned. I can tell you how many times people show up to the range with the shooting bags that contain the ammo and guns side by side. You might as well load the magazine ( not clip ) and keep it loaded in the gun as far as a cop's point of view.

Except that such is a misunderstanding of the law, to which both LEO and the rest of us may be sometimes prone.

There is no legal requirement to keep the ammunition separate from the gun, beyond unloaded. See http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Defining_loaded_in_California

And only handguns and 'assault weapons' must be locked for transport; so long as they are unloaded, long guns may be transported without locks (except for Federal law through school zones, relatively unenforceable).

And cable locks don't substitute for the legal requirement for locked cases.

ruffstock
06-19-2009, 11:15 PM
So you are saying that a firearm with a cable lock applied properly isnt considered legal for transport ? I am confused on that and promise you I am not trying to be a smart ***. I have heard so many different things that I dont know what to believe. Thanks for your comments Librarian.

Conundrum
07-27-2009, 7:55 PM
Cool.

Z ME FLY
07-27-2009, 8:03 PM
Looks good so far. Maybe you might want to add something about questions like

what is the best handgun for me
what is the best caliber
what is better glock or xyz
what is the best shotgun

things like this can be found using a search because these things have been beaten to death and it irks me when they come up because there is no point

js16301
07-28-2009, 8:53 AM
Just wanted to mention that this is a great thread, answered some questions I had.

Jim

guntercopeland
07-31-2009, 5:22 PM
I recently purchased a 16" DPMS barrel for my AR build. When it arrived I noticed it had a threaded tip. I was told that it was illegal to have a threaded barrel in CA. The online business I bought it from never said that to me and shipped it to CA anyway. I purchased a Vortex G6 flash hider for it. Is this legal or illegal if I just attach it tight? If not what do I need to do to make it legal. The vortex instructions say its self tightening. Not sure if this is good enough. My Ar is over 30" in Length, Has a bullet button and only will have 10 rd mags. Can anyone please let me know the straight scoop. Id appreciate it.

Z ME FLY
08-02-2009, 10:49 AM
I recently purchased a 16" DPMS barrel for my AR build. When it arrived I noticed it had a threaded tip. I was told that it was illegal to have a threaded barrel in CA. The online business I bought it from never said that to me and shipped it to CA anyway. I purchased a Vortex G6 flash hider for it. Is this legal or illegal if I just attach it tight? If not what do I need to do to make it legal. The vortex instructions say its self tightening. Not sure if this is good enough. My Ar is over 30" in Length, Has a bullet button and only will have 10 rd mags. Can anyone please let me know the straight scoop. Id appreciate it.

This thread is not for questions. Please post in the centerfire or gunsmith section

bobswire
10-22-2009, 6:21 PM
Hi, I'm new to this forum but a long time member of Chabot Gun Club though I haven't shot there in a few years I've kept up my membership dues.
I've dusted off the Dillion 550B and set it up to get ready to load some SWC 45 ACP and noticed I'm running short on primers.
It's been awhile since I've ordered any ammo or components on line (CMP,Dillon,Midway) I was wondering what if anything has changed these last 5 years? I live in San Francisco and have received ammo from CMP with no problems but that was awhile ago. Is there any problems with ordering large pistol primers on line nowadays?
One thing I have noticed the price sure has gone up.
Thanks,
Bob

mjm362004
12-15-2009, 5:35 PM
new memeber here..and new to southern california..
iam in the market to buy a complete ar-15 or simply build one..can anyone recommend a good and informative dealer in los angeles area..a dealer that knows the laws of owning and building an ar-15..
any help would be very much appreciated
thansk mike

ignatiusmael
12-20-2009, 10:56 PM
Hi everybody,

I am ignatiusmael.I am new to this site.I am here for discussing some new topics.I hope this site will help me to understand quickly.
I would like to say "hi" to all members,Welcome to the forum.

thank you!!

AndrewMendez
12-21-2009, 12:57 AM
There are soo many single posters that come and go, does CG send them emails asking for input???

asser101
12-30-2009, 6:33 PM
i have a question. If i was to buy an ar-15 223 would it be legal to have in ca

WebMoskal
12-30-2009, 9:50 PM
i have a question. If i was to buy an ar-15 223 would it be legal to have in ca

Great post, look up "CA AW ID Flowchart" http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

submoa
01-26-2010, 4:45 PM
htpeters,
I was the regional LE manager for S&W for several years. They always stood behind their stuff 100%. It's been a while since I worked for them, but I'll tell you now, if that .500 let go, there was an over pressure situation. What may have cause it, only you can answer. Moderate loads don't blow up guns unless there was a barrel obstruction. The X frame guns are tuff. I've seen them take proof loads way beyond common sense. I've seen S&W replace blown guns at no charge. Call them first. They'll pay for shipping both ways.
Tell them up front, you don't know why it happened, but don't BS them. That's all you can do.

kalefonyan
04-21-2010, 10:43 PM
Is a Norinco Mak 90 "Sporter" banned or is it different than the Mak 90 without the "sporter" marking in the end. The same question goes to a Bushmaster "Carbon 15" Pistol, as opposed to a Bushmaster Pistol without the "Carbon 15" marking. Both Mak 90 and Bushmaster Pistol are on the list, but I have my doubts about the similar named ones.

adsurf1
05-03-2010, 5:56 PM
I am new to the firearm world and have many question and can really use some direction.

I have a m1 carbine. want to install a pistol grip non-folding stock. is this a legal gun under cal law.


any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

AD

Dangerpin
05-03-2010, 7:18 PM
I'm still something of a newb, so make sure to confirm with someone more experienced but my understanding is that if you want to have a pistol grip (or other "evil" feature") you need to fix the magazine in some way. Either through use of a device that stops the gun from dropping mags without a simple tool or by making the mag permanently affixed or welded. And then you can only use 10 round mags.

There are some flowcharts on the top menu bar that are very helpful. Check them out. Here is one to get you started.

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

If you don't want to modify the gun or lose the ability to use your preban-purchased hi-cap mags you will need to not install the pistol grips.

adsurf1
05-03-2010, 9:49 PM
wow, guess i could have figured. origional stock is on. thanks for the info. ill check out the link and figure this out. again thanks!

qoodoo
05-28-2010, 3:24 PM
This was exactly the post I was looking for...great info thx

Schützenweber
06-22-2010, 12:48 PM
Great ifo, Jicko!
Thanks for putting this up to reference.
Cheers-





.

MyMalteseFalcon
11-23-2010, 1:11 AM
Why is every thing in this forum AR related? What about answers in how to deal with dishonest ppl that lie, flake and break their word on making deals?

My son got ripped off from a member, he sent him money and did not receive his gun...tune is $650.00. Other person claims he can't afford to pay him back...Who does he fall back on to get help here?? Where are the owners and mods to do something?

Where are answers to those questions??

Is there a question and answer section on these items? IE dealing with ppl that break their word on a deal, steal etc etc.

How to deal with dishonest ppl? This forum is not exempt from lairs thief's and cons. They are every where...more so here as it's take the money and look the other way...are they banned from here or just get a bad remark posted against them?

How many bad complaints b4 they are banned? Or are they banned?? Who's to say if they create another profile and continue business as usual?

Would be interesting to know.

Just wondering...but I've not been here that long and have experienced lots of flakes and wasting time, if a person gives their word then they should keep it.

What good are rules and mods if everyone does what they want?? It seems that's what's going on in here...

Whats a person to do???

i1800collect
11-23-2010, 8:18 AM
Why is every thing in this forum AR related? What about answers in how to deal with dishonest ppl that lie, flake and break their word on making deals?

My son got ripped off from a member, he sent him money and did not receive his gun...tune is $650.00. Other person claims he can't afford to pay him back...Who does he fall back on to get help here?? Where are the owners and mods to do something?

Where are answers to those questions??

Is there a question and answer section on these items? IE dealing with ppl that break their word on a deal, steal etc etc.

How to deal with dishonest ppl? This forum is not exempt from lairs thief's and cons. They are every where...more so here as it's take the money and look the other way...are they banned from here or just get a bad remark posted against them?

How many bad complaints b4 they are banned? Or are they banned?? Who's to say if they create another profile and continue business as usual?

Would be interesting to know.

Just wondering...but I've not been here that long and have experienced lots of flakes and wasting time, if a person gives their word then they should keep it.

What good are rules and mods if everyone does what they want?? It seems that's what's going on in here...

Whats a person to do???

Have you read the marketplace rules? Here is a link (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=317828). Rule #2 is the answer to a few of your questions. Sorry that you/your son got ripped off, but there really isn't much moderators or Kes can do about it. Bans aren't very effective because it is very easy to just re-register a different account.

A few suggestions on how to minimize the risk of getting ripped off:
- Look to do deals with established members, members with at least some post count and/or an iTrader rating.
- I personally only do deals with people who have an iTrader with a 100% rating. It just isn't worth the hassle for me to deal with people I can't trust.

What can you do? If the person who ripped you/your son off has a somewhat significant post count and/or an iTrader rating already, leave a negative feedback rating to warn others.

mtsul
11-23-2010, 11:18 AM
Why is every thing in this forum AR related? What about answers in how to deal with dishonest ppl that lie, flake and break their word on making deals?

My son got ripped off from a member, he sent him money and did not receive his gun...tune is $650.00. Other person claims he can't afford to pay him back...Who does he fall back on to get help here?? Where are the owners and mods to do something?

Where are answers to those questions??

Is there a question and answer section on these items? IE dealing with ppl that break their word on a deal, steal etc etc.

How to deal with dishonest ppl? This forum is not exempt from lairs thief's and cons. They are every where...more so here as it's take the money and look the other way...are they banned from here or just get a bad remark posted against them?

How many bad complaints b4 they are banned? Or are they banned?? Who's to say if they create another profile and continue business as usual?

Would be interesting to know.

Just wondering...but I've not been here that long and have experienced lots of flakes and wasting time, if a person gives their word then they should keep it.

What good are rules and mods if everyone does what they want?? It seems that's what's going on in here...

Whats a person to do???

And please give the name!!!! So nobody else gets ripped off

MyMalteseFalcon
11-25-2010, 12:43 AM
I'll post the name soon as I get it...Thanks for the suggestion.

I also forgot to mention all the flakes that do not reply to you after they give their word that the item you asked for is yours!

No one likes to waste time, so why do these flakes post WTS and do not follow up with it? Some ads get re-posted by the same ppl for the same item(s)!

There's one cop that loves to do this...screens ppl and never sells...not cool.

If a deal is made on a gentleman's agreement and it's broken then that person is not worth dealing with. Nor are they respectful to others. And they certainly are not much of a man to do that.

Also, I do not have any AR parts, not interested in AR's. An AR will do the same thing that an AK-47 can do, or anything else that's semi auto. AR7's are just a fad, next year it will be something else as it was last year etc. By next year you'll be able to get tons of parts as ppl will be tired of them, happens in a disposable society like ours.

Good luck in your search...

Happy Holidays!

sense1018
01-11-2011, 9:36 AM
Hi I recently moved to south carolina I went in to Dicks sporting goods to purchase a 12 gauge shotgun and my address was different from my license so from there I went to Dicks Pawn shop and just put my address thats on my license my back ground was good and off I went well the next morning I went back and returned it because I'm married to a convicted felon and heard that I'm not a loud to own a gun being married to him. Well I also told the pawn shop that I accidently put the wrong address and they said that it was okay since I already returned it with in less the 24 hours. Well now my husband is freaking out thinking he's going away for this and thinks because he helped me pick it out. Am I in any trouble HELP SO CONFUSED

Housh
01-23-2011, 10:04 PM
how do i put a post up if I'm looking to buy something??

Bull Elk
01-31-2011, 12:42 PM
I just completed my first sale last week. Would like to post a positive transaction with the buyer. Can someone help with this or direct me where to go to find out how to do this?

Thank you much!

Bull Elk

royalina
02-13-2011, 5:31 PM
I was shooting moderate reloads. I've been shooting and reloading a long time and never ran into anything like this before. Where to look, what to do? Any help would be greatly appreciated. ....

pwdrbrn
03-07-2011, 12:39 PM
does any one have any idea about .450/500/.458 mags considering that these pretty much are compatable, with mags wink!

pwdrbrn
03-07-2011, 12:41 PM
legality?

williamspann
03-25-2011, 10:36 PM
I'm new to this and trying to get my ccw has any body got one from jerry

NYRangerfan2
06-05-2012, 1:30 PM
The ammo-oracle.com reference is no good anymore. They have replaced it with this one: http://ammo.ar15.com/

Highdesertjim
07-22-2012, 4:28 PM
This is my first post. Legal question. My brother, out of state, has my grandfather's Colt Model 1917 WWI Colt 45 ACP Revolver that he wants to give me since he is having health problema and is over 70 years old. It is a damaged heirloom and cannot be fired. Ruined, bulged barrel. Is it considered a firearm? or a antique family heirloom?
Seems like a lot of nonsence to pay a firearm license for a chunk of steel that looks like a gun. It probably needs a welded barrel to make it truly unuseable, but only a fool would load this thing. (And you need 1/2 moon clips). Any ideas?

suechief
09-27-2012, 8:35 AM
How does one bump their post? Do you go into your listing and add something at the end? Thanks

Reverend
11-02-2012, 8:42 PM
On January 1, 2012, the PC numbers for all the firearms related offenses were changed. The exact wordage is the same. No change was made to how the law is written.

Since I teach about the legality of firearms and I use the CA Assault Weapon Flowchart found on this site, I decided to update the PC numbers on the chart.

Attached is my updated flowchart with the current and correct PC numbers. Hopefully people will peer review it and help me spot any areas where I may have made mistakes. I used a version 1.2 and only changed the PC numbers.

Thanks.