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BillyBat
05-03-2012, 11:37 PM
Hello everyone, I am new to the forums and am posting here because I have a rather embarrassing and awkward legal problem related to gun ownership in California... I'm hoping that someone can give me some ideas on how to handle it.

What happened is this. I'm the legal owner of a revolver. I'm 30 years old, and my mother is getting a little senile, and she is very anti-gun. I invited her over to my place awhile back, and she stole my gun when I wasn't paying attention, and has refused to give it back to me since then.

What makes this especially difficult is that this happened over six months ago. I've been busy with other things in life and have tried to talk her into returning it, but she refuses to do so.

I'm convinced by now that the only way I will ever see my gun again is if I bring in the authorities. I hate to do this to my own mother, but I can't have a potentially dangerous weapon that I'm responsible for hidden somewhere I don't know about. Being out $700 isn't so great either. So here's my concerns...

1. Is there any way to get the authorities to make her return my gun without pressing charges against her?
2. I've let her keep it for almost eight months now. Can I get in trouble for letting her keep it or for not reporting the theft?

Thanks guys for any answers you may have, I am desperate here and greatly appreciate any insights.

tpuig
05-03-2012, 11:42 PM
You can start by leaving some pamphlets of retirement homes around her house.

Day care in the Philippines and India for $8/day would be a nice touch.

Aside from that, you should mention how horrible it would be if a "child" were to find the gun.

Bert Gamble
05-03-2012, 11:42 PM
My advice would be to call the poilce and have them get it back. They could even assure her that the would keep it and not let you have it.

I think they would help you out in this situation, rather than making a big fuss with charges.

Hopefully RonSolo will respond. He is pretty knowledgable about thing like this.

6172crew
05-04-2012, 12:03 AM
Tell her you promise to sell it if she gives it back to you then crawfish on the deal....or upgrade it after its sold.:43:

IntoForever
05-04-2012, 12:08 AM
Sucks when it's family however I wouldn't hesitate to tell them return the gun or get arrested. My family knows I wouldn't hesitate to make good on my word. Good luck with that.

Ron-Solo
05-04-2012, 12:16 AM
My advice would be to call the poilce and have them get it back. They could even assure her that the would keep it and not let you have it.

I think they would help you out in this situation, rather than making a big fuss with charges.

Hopefully RonSolo will respond. He is pretty knowledgable about thing like this.

You took the words right off my keypad. :D

Contact your local police and explain the situation. During my career, I helped coax many a family member into returning stuff. It doesn't work with dirtbags, because they don't fear jail. Honest people fear jail, so it usually works with them. Field cops don't want to be busting a senile woman, nor do they want her having a gun in that situation. Diminished capacity can be a scary thing.

Keep the gun secured on future visits.

Best of luck.

6172crew
05-04-2012, 12:18 AM
You took the words right off my keypad. :D

Contact your local police and explain the situation. During my career, I helped coax many a family member into returning stuff. It doesn't work with dirtbags, because they don't fear jail. Honest people fear jail, so it usually works with them. Field cops don't want to be busting a senile woman, nor do they want her having a gun in that situation. Diminished capacity can be a scary thing.

Best of luck.

I still like my way...I'm always looking to upgrade something.:D

lazyworm
05-04-2012, 12:19 AM
You probably should make sure she didn't already throw it away.

scoot64
05-04-2012, 12:22 AM
Do you have any police friends?

BillyBat
05-04-2012, 12:25 AM
You probably should make sure she didn't already throw it away.
She tells me that she still has it, but I'm not 100% sure that's true :shrug: I also offered to sell it, and she said, "I won't let you sell it that's another gun out in the world that could shoot someone," which is when I realized that this wasn't going to end pleasantly.

Thanks for the advice guys! Any more is also appreciated.

760knox
05-04-2012, 12:26 AM
:eek:you had it laying around for her to take! Yikes! well there's a lot of good info posted above. One other thing, GET IT BACK!

760knox
05-04-2012, 12:26 AM
:eek:you had it laying around for her to take! Yikes! well there's a lot of good info posted above. One other thing, GET IT BACK!

gl0ckc0ma
05-04-2012, 12:33 AM
WTF

BillyBat
05-04-2012, 12:36 AM
Well, it was locked in a box in my closet and she took the entire box. It's not like I had it on the nightstand or anything.

Edit: She asked me how I store it and I just showed her -_-

Norcal Industries
05-04-2012, 12:39 AM
what would wayne brady say?

Bill Carson
05-04-2012, 12:42 AM
I ain't buying this story.

bigcasino
05-04-2012, 12:43 AM
I would go to her home and explain to her if she dont return it you will have to report it stolen and then one of 3 things will happen.

1. she will go to jail for stealing guns
2. you will go to jail for not reporting a stolen gun.
3. you will both go to jail.
If she dont give it back then I would call the police while at her home and tell her "hey mom I got my bail money and a lawyers phone number do you" if she still dont return wait for officer to arrive tell them the story and go from there.
I hope this all works out for you.

stix213
05-04-2012, 12:44 AM
Ron-Solo of course would know best. I bet if you communicate your situation exactly as you have here you'll have the greatest chance of having it turn out the best way possible. I don't see you getting in trouble for "letting her keep it" since it is stolen property and you've been doing everything you can other than contacting the authorities to retrieve it. Good luck

I doubt making direct threats of jail to her would be effective. If that has to happen she'll actually believe it from someone wearing a badge, but she probably won't from you.

I'd avoid inviting her over in the future.

IANAL or LEO

gl0ckc0ma
05-04-2012, 12:46 AM
I would love to see the end result of this situation.

OP make sure you update this thread with what happened

:popcorn:

Carnivore
05-04-2012, 12:47 AM
I ain't buying this story.

Ya X2 on that. There is more to it.

Mstrty
05-04-2012, 12:49 AM
I any of this is true then the gun is gone. She doesnt have it. She threw it into a lake, stream, PD station at her first available opportunity. Anti-gun folks dont just hate firearms but are deathly afraid of them.

I would just pick up another gun and secure it better. Tell no one you have it, and never allow your mother into your home again. She clearly does not respect you or your property.

stix213
05-04-2012, 12:52 AM
I any of this is true then the gun is gone. She doesnt have it. She threw it into a lake, stream, PD station at her first available opportunity. Anti-gun folks dont just hate firearms but are deathly afraid of them.

I would just pick up another gun and secure it better. Tell no one you have it, and never allow your mother into your home again. She clearly does not respect you or your property.

That could be true, but she could also be afraid someone else would find it so may think that her hording all the guns in the world, collecting them one at a time, is how to rid the world of gun violence.

Yugo
05-04-2012, 12:54 AM
:popcorn: wish you the best of luck.

gl0ckc0ma
05-04-2012, 1:20 AM
I any of this is true then the gun is gone. She doesnt have it. She threw it into a lake, stream, PD station at her first available opportunity. Anti-gun folks dont just hate firearms but are deathly afraid of them.

I would just pick up another gun and secure it better. Tell no one you have it, and never allow your mother into your home again. She clearly does not respect you or your property.

Wait, shouldnt he report it stolen, what if she does throw it away and somehow it ends up in the wrong hands. One day you get a knock on the door and are arrested for murder cause your firearm was found at a homicide crime scene.

johnthomas
05-04-2012, 1:50 AM
Does she ever leave her house? If so, get in there and find it.

wildhawker
05-04-2012, 2:28 AM
Tell her that stealing guns is like feeding Mogwai after midnight. Then prove it. Also, then get your gun back.

Kavey
05-04-2012, 3:20 AM
If you decide to bring in the police, don't tell her first. If she believes the police are coming, she may dispose of the gun before they arrive. Of course, I'm assuming she still has it.

Another approach you might consider is taking your mom to small claims court. The court could order her to return the gun or compensate you for the cost of it. A police report would help here.

At least she's not your mother-in-law. Think what a mess that would be.

Good luck.

tiko
05-04-2012, 6:35 AM
She could file a TRO after forced to give the gun back to you, so prepare

OleCuss
05-04-2012, 6:48 AM
.
.
.
Thanks for the advice guys! Any more is also appreciated.

Ron Solo (as usual) nailed it down for you. I'd do exactly what he suggested.

QQQ
05-04-2012, 7:03 AM
She could file a TRO after forced to give the gun back to you, so prepareOn what basis?

Ron's and others' advice to report it sounds like the most reasonable approach. A senile old woman stealing then keeping and refusing to return a handgun cannot end well unless she gets it taken away from her.

tankerman
05-04-2012, 7:03 AM
Tell her if she doesn't return your gun, then you'll buy 5 more guns.

Should be simple for even a senile person to understand.

Lives_In_Fresno
05-04-2012, 7:25 AM
Well, it was locked in a box in my closet and she took the entire box. It's not like I had it on the nightstand or anything.

Edit: She asked me how I store it and I just showed her -_-

She has a key to your house?

Or did you let her walk out with it?

pHredd9mm
05-04-2012, 7:27 AM
1. Tell her you reported it stolen to the police, and she is on their list of suspects.
2. Tell her that whoever has it is in really big trouble.
3. Hide outside her home and watch the garbage can/dumpsters.
4. Retrieve firearm/box after she tosses it.
5. Sell it to a member of calguns who will give it the proper care and feeding it needs.

liketoshoot
05-04-2012, 7:41 AM
I any of this is true then the gun is gone. She doesnt have it. She threw it into a lake, stream, PD station at her first available opportunity. Anti-gun folks dont just hate firearms but are deathly afraid of them.

I would just pick up another gun and secure it better. Tell no one you have it, and never allow your mother into your home again. She clearly does not respect you or your property.

I'm thinking Gun buyback and a Wallyworld card for $50.00

speedrrracer
05-04-2012, 8:08 AM
Wait, shouldnt he report it stolen, what if she does throw it away and somehow it ends up in the wrong hands. One day you get a knock on the door and are arrested for murder cause your firearm was found at a homicide crime scene.

This!! I can't believe no one else has touched on this point.

Fer chrissakes, a SENILE old woman took your gun 8 months ago??? You're bloody lucky it hasn't ended up implicating you in some crime scene.

And that's if the OP is even telling the truth. Posting on the internet as an "alibi" is a very old trick at this point, according to some ADA friends.

At the very least, your firearm has been out of your control for 8 months by your own admission. I can't even begin to imagine all the criminal negligence-type charges that could be brought against the OP if anything were to happen (even if the OP were found innocent of any other charges!).

dantodd
05-04-2012, 8:12 AM
This!! I can't believe no one else has touched on this point.

Fer chrissakes, a SENILE old woman took your gun 8 months ago??? You're bloody lucky it hasn't ended up implicating you in some crime scene.

And that's if the OP is even telling the truth. Posting on the internet as an "alibi" is a very old trick at this point, according to some ADA friends.

At the very least, your firearm has been out of your control for 8 months by your own admission. I can't even begin to imagine all the criminal negligence-type charges that could be brought against the OP if anything were to happen (even if the OP were found innocent of any other charges!).

Funny how in this thread people are saying this while in another active thread right now people are screaming at another poster for wanting to legally keep someone from using a fun because they are of reduced mental capacity when they stop taking their meds.

RazzB7
05-04-2012, 8:22 AM
You took the words right off my keypad. :D

Contact your local police and explain the situation. During my career, I helped coax many a family member into returning stuff. It doesn't work with dirtbags, because they don't fear jail. Honest people fear jail, so it usually works with them. Field cops don't want to be busting a senile woman, nor do they want her having a gun in that situation. Diminished capacity can be a scary thing.

Keep the gun secured on future visits.

Best of luck.

And ^this^ guy gets accused of being heavy-handed and one of the "jack-booted thugs" frequently on CalGuns. I hope you tinfoil hatters are paying attention!

Shellshocker66
05-04-2012, 9:20 AM
A little senile? Sounds like she is pretty with it? She doesn't like guns, she tricked you into showing her where it was, she took it, and now she knows that she wants to keep guns out of the world. Don't confuse senility with manipulation which older folks are great at!

My mother is 88 and sharp as a tack. She hates guns. If she decided one day to go and take my guns it would not be because she is senile, it would be because she made her own decision and did it. Since she lives with me it would be really easy for her to do.

Now your options. Yes you could call the police, more then likely she is going to say she got rid of it. So your out a gun, but at minimum it will be reported as lost/stolen whatever.

Next you could try and send Momma out for a day at the beauty salon, and go turn over her place and try to find it. Older women have some unique hiding spots, I suggest pockets in hanging clothes, any luggage cases, and of course in the underwear drawer! It will be where you least expect it, don't think like a man, think like a woman who really wants to hide something!

I understand family dynamics but when it comes to guns you need to be a little more proactive and not wait 8 months. Lock that puppy up and bolt it down if you get it back!

j-rod
05-04-2012, 9:27 AM
Tell her she needs to get her HSC asap.

wash
05-04-2012, 9:46 AM
Tell her it's OK, you decided you like rifles better and bought an AK47.

j-rod
05-04-2012, 10:36 AM
Funny how in this thread people are saying this while in another active thread right now people are screaming at another poster for wanting to legally keep someone from using a fun because they are of reduced mental capacity when they stop taking their meds.

Here we have theft.
There we have a potential purchase.

All potential mental issues aside, there is a crime described here and maybe a bad idea described in the other thread.

DrDavid
05-04-2012, 10:54 AM
Since she's had it for longer than 3 days, doesn't have an HSC, and didn't DROS it, hasn't she committed a crime? Or, a few crimes?

You might remind her of the crimes she's committed, then, call the cops and report it stolen. I sure wouldn't want to be responsible for the gun if I had no idea where it was!

BillyBat
05-04-2012, 4:11 PM
This isn't being set up as an alibi for a crime or anything weird like that, so don't worry. As for the gun, I'm sure that it's very well hidden. I don't think she has a key to the lockbox I was storing it in, so it is in all likelihood buried somewhere in her backyard and still in its original lockbox. She lives in a house with a very large back yard and I don't expect to be digging up the backyard on my own without her seeing me and turning it into more trouble than it's worth.

Edit: If it's buried then it is probably water damaged by now or something -_- But my main goal at this point is to not have to worry about it anymore and I don't let her into my place anymore either for those who asked about that.

Neil McCauley
05-04-2012, 4:48 PM
Man I'd be so pissed off. Although it would be the wrong thing to do, I'd be tempted to let her keep it and buy more guns. Than if something horrible was to happen I'd blame her, senile or not. The other alternative of actively getting your gun back puts you at risk for theft " from stealing it back" or her putting a TRO or something crazy on you. Mom isn't all there, good luck.

bruss01
05-04-2012, 4:59 PM
I have one of those, too. Doesn't respect boundaries, still thinks she's in charge and has a say. Wants to "manage" somebody. I say if she wants to "manage" I'm sure there's a Kwik-E-Mart somewhere that would welcome her with open arms.

Won't let her in my house. Hell, I haven't spoken to her since 1992. We don't cross paths. From what I hear from the rest of the family, I'm better off being estranged.

Good luck guy, hope you get your gun back without a lawsuit. And frankly, that is exactly where I would head with this. Sue her for the cost of replacing the gun, the lockbox, and the hassle this has caused you. Then tell her to get bent and never talk to you again. She broke your trust and now you have to treat her as untrustworthy. She stole a gun, she is a theif and if push comes to shove she is a felon now. Put it to her in those terms and tell her if she doesn't settle the suit there will be criminal charges tacked on too.

I wouldn't think much of a kid who stole from his parents. I don't think much of parents who steal from their kids either in case you couldn't tell.

cabinetguy
05-04-2012, 5:00 PM
I would find a way to get it back, but the best route is ask for it, IMO

r1ghtw1ng
05-04-2012, 5:12 PM
Time to get medieval. You gotta think like a crazy person to reason with them.

Steal something of hers that she values, like her chihuahua or her dentures, then arrange a hostage swap.

raydog
05-04-2012, 5:29 PM
Just go to her house and take it back when she is not home. Don't involve the authorities because you might not like the outcome (dead mom). Been known to happen, folks call cops on relatives and relatives wind up dead from the people they called to help!!!

CavTrooper
05-04-2012, 5:59 PM
If you get the cops involved you will never see the gun again and probably get your mom locked up. The police don't care about your petty issues, all they know is that laws were broken and gun busts look good on the blotter. Anyone who tells you different is either naive or setting you up for failure.

bill_k_lopez
05-04-2012, 6:08 PM
I'm wondering why senile mom was able to access your unlocked firearm. Seems to me that this isn't far from allowing little Johnny or Suse to have access to it as well.

Call the police, have them work it out for you.

dunndeal
05-04-2012, 6:09 PM
If you think she might have buried it in the backyard, after the police toss the house looking for it and don't find it I'd rent a metal detector and spend some time out back.

stix213
05-04-2012, 6:37 PM
I'm wondering why senile mom was able to access your unlocked firearm. Seems to me that this isn't far from allowing little Johnny or Suse to have access to it as well.

Call the police, have them work it out for you.

OP is saying she took it locked case and all lol. I'm having a hard time blaming him for not securing the locked case from his own mother.

IntoForever
05-04-2012, 6:48 PM
Knowing a person was anti-gun, I wouldn't show them where I keep it, especially if it's not in a safe. Even my pro-gun friends or family aren't allowed in the same side of the house as my toys, they can wait in the living room.

OP is saying she took it locked case and all lol. I'm having a hard time blaming him for not securing the locked case from his own mother.
Or a smash and grab thief. At least cable lock it to something big.

SilverTauron
05-04-2012, 6:52 PM
The gun is history no matter what.

If she buried it, its not going to be in useable condition.
If she traded or sold it, its obviously gone.
If the cops are called , the weapon will be seized as evidence for larceny.

The only way the OP can get his gun back is if he goes to his mother's house and does an ol' fashioned one man DEA type search. Because the weapon in question is a handgun there's thousands of potential hiding places available in the home. Unless the OP can get five hours alone in the home , he may as well write off the gun and get the authorities involved before it turns up during a traffic stop somewhere.

Edit: Don't show anyone except house residents where your firearms are. Relation, family, friends, it doesn't matter.Only I know the location of my firearms at any given point in time,and I keep it that way for a reason. All it takes is one associate of your shooting buddies or relatives to know where your guns are, and you instantly become a target for theft.To modify a popular military saying, if the thieves can see it, they can take it. Doesn't matter if you have a lockbox, cable tie, built in gunsafe, or concrete bunker with handprint scanning security.

Slim///
05-04-2012, 6:59 PM
In for outcome

Oceanbob
05-04-2012, 7:00 PM
It's either in her house or it's not. Get a friend to take her shopping and do a team search of the house. I'am guessing she didn't bury it. Probably in a closet or in the garage somewhere. Go look. Personally I would not involve the Police or any bring any legal issues....she's your mom. You don't do that to a Mom. :D

DrScorpio
05-04-2012, 7:10 PM
This isn't being set up as an alibi for a crime or anything weird like that, so don't worry. As for the gun, I'm sure that it's very well hidden. I don't think she has a key to the lockbox I was storing it in, so it is in all likelihood buried somewhere in her backyard and still in its original lockbox. She lives in a house with a very large back yard and I don't expect to be digging up the backyard on my own without her seeing me and turning it into more trouble than it's worth.

Edit: If it's buried then it is probably water damaged by now or something -_- But my main goal at this point is to not have to worry about it anymore and I don't let her into my place anymore either for those who asked about that.

Im really thinking this story is fake. You dont seem real concerned about the fact that you have no idea where your handgun which has been missing for 8 months is. You seem to have a lot of faith in a possibly senile person (who most likely has very little firearm experience) taking care of your gun.

I would think that after 8 months this gun could be anywhere. At the very least I would report it stolen, not because you might be an alibi in a crime, but for the very fact that you do not know where your handgun is and you do not want to be held responsible for anything that may occur.

We have no idea who may or may not have come into contact with this box in the last 8 months. Boxes can be broken into. Wet guns can be dried. YOU are responsible for your weapons.

12voltguy
05-04-2012, 7:23 PM
Im really thinking this story is fake. You dont seem real concerned about the fact that you have no idea where your handgun which has been missing for 8 months is. You seem to have a lot of faith in a possibly senile person (who most likely has very little firearm experience) taking care of your gun.

I would think that after 8 months this gun could be anywhere. At the very least I would report it stolen, not because you might be an alibi in a crime, but for the very fact that you do not know where your handgun is and you do not want to be held responsible for anything that may occur.

We have no idea who may or may not have come into contact with this box in the last 8 months. Boxes can be broken into. Wet guns can be dried. YOU are responsible for your weapons.

no, he is not:(
if that were true he would have called the cops the day it went missing.

makes us responsible gun owners look bad:mad:

j-rod
05-04-2012, 7:43 PM
I thought for a second I might lend you my metal detector to awesome up the end to this story but then I remembered you lost your gun.

You can borrow my detector with a hefty deposit.

BillyBat
05-04-2012, 8:08 PM
I'm not really that into guns, it's an expensive and (seems to me) time consuming hobby, and so I probably won't be on these forums after this resolves. Even if I were, it would likely be under a different account name as I don't expect to ever live a story like this down with those I share it with.

I have one of those, too. Doesn't respect boundaries, still thinks she's in charge and has a say. Wants to "manage" somebody. I say if she wants to "manage" I'm sure there's a Kwik-E-Mart somewhere that would welcome her with open arms.

Won't let her in my house. Hell, I haven't spoken to her since 1992. We don't cross paths. From what I hear from the rest of the family, I'm better off being estranged.

Good luck guy, hope you get your gun back without a lawsuit. And frankly, that is exactly where I would head with this. Sue her for the cost of replacing the gun, the lockbox, and the hassle this has caused you. Then tell her to get bent and never talk to you again. She broke your trust and now you have to treat her as untrustworthy. She stole a gun, she is a theif and if push comes to shove she is a felon now. Put it to her in those terms and tell her if she doesn't settle the suit there will be criminal charges tacked on too.

I wouldn't think much of a kid who stole from his parents. I don't think much of parents who steal from their kids either in case you couldn't tell.

But, thank you sir for the expression of support. My relationship with my mom is almost exactly how you described the relationship you have/had with yours. My brother moved out of California to get away from her because moving from southern to northern California wasn't far enough, and I have one of those steering wheel locks ("The Club") on my car, and not because I'm afraid someone is going to break in through the window. My mom has always insisted on keeping the second set of keys to the car she helped me buy when I graduated from college, "in case something happens to me", and has threatened to drive off in my car before. I can see myself following in my brother's footsteps if she doesn't surprise us all and calm the **** down.

NoNOS67
05-04-2012, 8:18 PM
Wow, I'm sorry you're having to deal with that! Speaking from experience, sometimes you just have to put your foot down. Hope it all works out for you!

philobeddoe
05-04-2012, 8:21 PM
Bet it's in her oven.

Doheny
05-04-2012, 8:36 PM
Maybe it's time to get mom 5150'd.

Ron-Solo
05-04-2012, 9:07 PM
If you get the cops involved you will never see the gun again and probably get your mom locked up. The police don't care about your petty issues, all they know is that laws were broken and gun busts look good on the blotter. Anyone who tells you different is either naive or setting you up for failure.

Sorry, but this is inaccurate information. I have personally recovered dozens of firearms and returned them to their rightful owner. Sometimes they might be held until a court case is resolved, but the gun is HIS property.

And for those of you quick to call "fake" what a way to may a new person feel welcome. Instead, various members have engaged in a feeding frenzy when the guy came here for help.

nicki
05-04-2012, 9:24 PM
Your profile doesn't list where in California you are located.

We have a few CALGUNNERS who are LEOs, perhaps one of them might be nice enough to meet with you and visit your mom.

I am sure that after your mom blabs in front of you and your LEO friend who happen to be recording this conversation about your gun that it will suddenly re appear.

Hell, your LEO friend could even make things fun, like how did your mom transport the gun from your house to her house? If she didn't unload it, she would be carrying a loaded concealed weapon that isn't registered to her, that is felony wobbler in itself.

Did she happen to pass within 1000 feet of any schools, that could up things to felony status.

Does she have a HSC card and did she have permission of the owner(you) to transport the gun.

This is a terrible thing to have to do to "Mom", but respect goes both ways.

Nicki

sharxbyte
05-04-2012, 11:01 PM
That could be true, but she could also be afraid someone else would find it so may think that her hording all the guns in the world, collecting them one at a time, is how to rid the world of gun violence.

Honestly this sounds like more than being slightly senile.. She sounds obsessive..

garandguy10
05-05-2012, 8:57 AM
She is keeping the gun for later use on herself.
That way she takes care of her dimentia and hammers home her anti gun B.S.
to you by offing herself with your gun.


I would think that you should find that box with the gun in it.

sharxbyte
05-05-2012, 9:41 AM
Time to get medieval. You gotta think like a crazy person to reason with them.

Steal something of hers that she values, like her chihuahua or her dentures, then arrange a hostage swap.

I still think doing some "gardening" is the best option. if its not buried its probably under the house in the crawl space, in the attic. if it is, its probably in an area that was already dug in at some time or other, like a flower bed.

socal2310
05-05-2012, 1:08 PM
Tagged for update on outcome.

BKinzey
05-05-2012, 2:50 PM
I wouldn't report the gun as stolen unless you want to report that your mother took it. Any reason to CYA by reporting it stolen also means they would find out your mother took it. Could cause you problems because they would probably find out you knew your mother took it. So don't report it stolen unless you are also willing to report your mother as having stolen it.

I would probably tell your mother that the firearm is legally yours and "registered" to you and for her to keep it is actually breaking the law so she needs to return it to you.

If she refuses I would take RonSolo's advice. I would stress however to make sure the police know the firearm is in a secure locked box and she has possession of the box but does not have access to the firearm inside.

mrdd
05-05-2012, 2:55 PM
Of course everyone realizes that theft of a firearm is a felony in this state. Not a wobbler.

CavTrooper
05-05-2012, 3:45 PM
I would stress however to make sure the police know the firearm is in a secure locked box and she has possession of the box but does not have access to the firearm inside.

Oh snap, hadnt even considered that angle.

Its not outside of the realm of possibility that your senile old mother might not make it out of an LEO encounter alive, regardless of wheather shes opened the box or not.

Im sure "mentally unstable person with a gun" calls are not handled in a lackadaisical manner by LEO.

Meplat
05-05-2012, 4:04 PM
Ya X2 on that. There is more to it.

Sounds like you guys have never had to deal with a difficult, bat **** crazy, mother. When my brother brought up the subject of getting a stone to put on momís grave, at a recent family function. I asked him; ďWhy? Are you afraid sheís going to get out?Ē

All the people that knew and loved her best in life, totally got it.

Meplat
05-05-2012, 4:10 PM
She has a key to your house?

Or did you let her walk out with it?

You go to the John, she stuffs it in that big ol' purse.

skyscraper
05-05-2012, 4:12 PM
Why are these threads always started by guys who just joined?

I dont know if I buy this. Like the kid who got denied LTC in sac for "forgetting" about a burglary charge and omitting it on his app. Also was a recent join date.

bandook
05-05-2012, 4:12 PM
Please follow Ron Solo's advice.
Go talk to her local police station and explain the situation. (Mom took my gun and isn't giving it back because she thinks guns are dangerous.)
This is not the same as reporting it stolen.
Better yet, drive your mom to the police station and then have a couple of officers escort you back to retrieve the gun. There won't be any misunderstandings if your mom remains outside with one officer while the other one goes in with you to retrieve the box.
Also ask the officer if you can open the box to verify that he gun is still there.
Good luck.

Meplat
05-05-2012, 4:12 PM
I'm thinking Gun buyback and a Wallyworld card for $50.00:confused::(:mad:

Meplat
05-05-2012, 4:15 PM
And ^this^ guy gets accused of being heavy-handed and one of the "jack-booted thugs" frequently on CalGuns. I hope you tinfoil hatters are paying attention!

Not by me. Ron is solid.

Meplat
05-05-2012, 4:26 PM
If you think she might have buried it in the backyard, after the police toss the house looking for it and don't find it I'd rent a metal detector and spend some time out back.

Good idea! You might find a whole collection. How long has she been doing this?

Meplat
05-05-2012, 4:46 PM
I still think doing some "gardening" is the best option. if its not buried its probably under the house in the crawl space, in the attic. if it is, its probably in an area that was already dug in at some time or other, like a flower bed.

Iím not a senile old lady, but if I were going to hide something like that at my home, which I wouldnít to start with. It would be inside the wall right behind the shower controls and sheet rocked over, or poured in the concrete of the new patio. But if I really hated guns and wanted to make sure it never escaped and hurt someone I would simply spend a bit of quality time with it and my cutting torch, then the slag and dingle berries would go in the river.

bob1911
05-05-2012, 4:47 PM
As a locksmith I feel as if I should point out that typical lockboxes can be opened by anyone with a sincere interest in opening them. Often without any sign of entry. I f you have a small selection of normal keys laying around one of them will likely open it.

CYA now if not sooner!

Ron-Solo
05-05-2012, 5:02 PM
Its not outside of the realm of possibility that your senile old mother might not make it out of an LEO encounter alive, regardless of wheather shes opened the box or not.
.

What a bunch of NONSENSE.

NoNOS67
05-05-2012, 5:05 PM
What a bunch of NONSENSE.

Thank the media.

FalconLair
05-05-2012, 5:09 PM
just let her keep it, she's obviously smarter than you

sorry just dont have much sympathies when it comes to irresponsibility and guns

FalconLair
05-05-2012, 5:11 PM
meh, don't wanna send out the wrong message based on your stupidity

Solo gave you good advice, so what are you waiting for now?

CavTrooper
05-05-2012, 5:27 PM
What a bunch of NONSENSE.


Unarmed folk never get shot by the police?

FalconLair
05-05-2012, 5:28 PM
If you get the cops involved you will never see the gun again and probably get your mom locked up. The police don't care about your petty issues, all they know is that laws were broken and gun busts look good on the blotter. Anyone who tells you different is either naive or setting you up for failure.

yup, thats EXACTLY what I was thinking while getting ready to head out today. Lets "find" some ways to lock up the old lady. If i'm really fortunate maybe i'll even get a chance to pop a cap in grandma arse. Cuz dats what we do, right?

First and foremost, its not a petty issue. My only real hang up is whether or not sonny boy is the best choice to even have the d*** gun. Moms just might be doing him a favor, keeping it out of HIS control, she might be doing us all a favor, iono. Seriously, if he gets the gun back or not, who cares, I sure dont. But it probably is in everyones best interest to locate the gun.

I mean, we're basing everything on YOUR story...maybe your mom is the real genius here and you're the one suffering from some serious brain farts.

CavTrooper
05-05-2012, 5:29 PM
Thank the media.

When was the last time "the media" killed an unarmed suspect?

HonkingAntelope
05-05-2012, 5:33 PM
Sorry, but this is inaccurate information. I have personally recovered dozens of firearms and returned them to their rightful owner. Sometimes they might be held until a court case is resolved, but the gun is HIS property.

As someone upthread pointed out, Grand Theft Firearm is an automatic felony regardless of the gun's value. Unless the OP is ok with having the mom chucked into a women's prison plus the felony tag, calling the police should be the absolute last thing on his mind.

I know there are good cops out there who would rather resolve the situation without resorting to arrests, but with the OP's luck, it's probably going to be someone up short on their "performance objectives" and won't think twice about adding one more to the stats...

OP: If you have any friends in LE, find out if someone would be ok with coming over to moms in order to impress the sheer gravity of what kind of a serious felony she committed, and to make good on the situation.

FalconLair
05-05-2012, 5:43 PM
Unarmed folk never get shot by the police?

everytime I see that "quote" the first thing that comes to mind is Clint Eastwood in "Unforgiven"

Gene Hackman: "You SIR, just shot an unarmed man"
Clint: "Well, he should've armed himself"

just one helluva hilarious movie reply, imo, not that it has anything to do with the assinine comment you just made.

Meplat
05-05-2012, 6:06 PM
just let her keep it, she's obviously smarter than you


You know what they say about old age and treachery.:D

Meplat
05-05-2012, 6:17 PM
When was the last time "the media" killed an unarmed suspect?

I am no LE apologist; in fact I can proudly state that I am permi-banned from the LE forum.

But, give it a rest; I donít think they have a bounty on old ladies!

El Gato
05-05-2012, 6:53 PM
What Ron-solo said....

or simply call the police and ask that they meet you for a keep the peace, return of property...they do this all of the time...and they will generally do what they can to help...esp if you live in a smaller town or have a substation nearby her house....go to them explain and ask them what would be a good time in terms of their call backlog.. etc...the gun should come back as registered to you and you want the property back....

if you don't...
Mom will continue to walk all over you... SHE violated the boundaries of your person, life etc.. giving birth to you does not give her the right to take your property when you are 30 yrs old!....

bad boundaries....try reading:

Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life
Henry Cloud

Josey Wales
05-05-2012, 7:05 PM
I ain't buying this story.

Agreed. This has :troll: written all over it.

Meplat
05-05-2012, 7:12 PM
As a locksmith I feel as if I should point out that typical lockboxes can be opened by anyone with a sincere interest in opening them. Often without any sign of entry. I f you have a small selection of normal keys laying around one of them will likely open it.

CYA now if not sooner!

That is also true of even fairly high quality hard pistol and rifle cases!

scrat
05-05-2012, 8:04 PM
:lurk5::whistling:

BillyBat
05-05-2012, 9:12 PM
Your profile doesn't list where in California you are located.

We have a few CALGUNNERS who are LEOs, perhaps one of them might be nice enough to meet with you and visit your mom.

I am sure that after your mom blabs in front of you and your LEO friend who happen to be recording this conversation about your gun that it will suddenly re appear.

Hell, your LEO friend could even make things fun, like how did your mom transport the gun from your house to her house? If she didn't unload it, she would be carrying a loaded concealed weapon that isn't registered to her, that is felony wobbler in itself.

Did she happen to pass within 1000 feet of any schools, that could up things to felony status.

Does she have a HSC card and did she have permission of the owner(you) to transport the gun.

This is a terrible thing to have to do to "Mom", but respect goes both ways.

Nicki
I've considering recording her so that I have some evidence. My brother knows that she took it, but he will not appreciate being dragged into the whole thing. The thing is, isn't recording people without their knowledge against the law in California?

I don't want to give where in California I'm located as I don't want to be identified, this is embarrassing enough as it is :)

Edit: Didn't realize what LEO stood for, obviously a law enforcement officer could record her. My mom is still working as a doctor and would be crushed to go to jail, and would likely lose her job over it. It is not an easy situation but I am planning to get the gun back within the week.

Ron-Solo
05-05-2012, 9:29 PM
Unarmed folk never get shot by the police?

No where did I ever say that. In the OP's situation, this is a straight forward keep the peace call. Unless mom did something really stupid, things will be fine.

This is a family dispute more than a criminal matter. I don't see a LEO pushing for an arrest when the OP clearly doesn't want to press charges. We try to make the most of our time.

Your comment is just as irresponsible as someone saying people in Afghanistan having a poor chance of surviving an encounter with US troops. Nonsense.

Ron-Solo
05-06-2012, 12:06 AM
I've considering recording her so that I have some evidence. My brother knows that she took it, but he will not appreciate being dragged into the whole thing. The thing is, isn't recording people without their knowledge against the law in California?

I don't want to give where in California I'm located as I don't want to be identified, this is embarrassing enough as it is :)

Edit: Didn't realize what LEO stood for, obviously a law enforcement officer could record her. My mom is still working as a doctor and would be crushed to go to jail, and would likely lose her job over it. It is not an easy situation but I am planning to get the gun back within the week.

Private Message sent.

Meplat
05-06-2012, 2:30 PM
Edit: Didn't realize what LEO stood for, obviously a law enforcement officer could record her. My mom is still working as a doctor and would be crushed to go to jail, and would likely lose her job over it. It is not an easy situation but I am planning to get the gun back within the week.


Anyplace where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy all parties being recorded have to know. There is no exception for LEO without a warrant.

MindBuilder
05-06-2012, 3:29 PM
One possibility is to tell her that you are going to give away two guns to two people who don't have one, and ten NRA memberships, every year until she gives it back and/or compensates you. If she thinks you're bluffing, point out that it is best for her to cave to your demand before your cash causes even a single new gun to be brought off the shelves out into the hands of somebody who didn't have one before, and if she waits until you buy gun gifts and NRA memberships, she will have to compensate you for those costs as well. You could multiply the damage by only offering 50/50 matching funds to people who are willing to chip in some of their own cash. Those who contribute matching funds would be more likely to keep the guns instead of cashing them in also.

Often even smart people are careless or stupid about hiding things. There is a decent chance that a quick search will easily resove this situation. Consider taking a metal detector and a sharp steel rod with a T-handle on top to probe the ground, like septic tank guys use to find buried tanks. Wherever she buried it is likely to be soft ground, easily probed. Consider renting a ground penetrating radar or something like that if you can get it cheap enough.

MindBuilder
05-06-2012, 4:30 PM
Another possibility would be to wait for one of those no questions asked gun buybacks and call them and tell them they can have your gun but they have to go get it from your mom themselves. Maybe they would honor the no questions asked offer and you could avoid punishment for your failure to report the theft. Maybe it would be better to hire a lawyer to negotiate for you. I'm not a lawyer but would guess that it would then be very likely they would give you a deal without punishment just to get the gun out of the wild. If they won't give you a deal, they still won't know who your lawyer is working for unless they pull your lawyers phone records or have street video of you driving to the lawyer's office. But they probably wouldn't bother hunting you down just to recover a buried gun from an anti-gun doctor.

One problem with calling in the authorities is that they will probably threaten to prosecute her if she doesn't turn it over, and if she can't turn it over because she threw it away, they may not believe her and they may throw the book at her hard. That would be a lot of human resources wasted keeping her in prison where someone more deserving should be.

You could also offer her a written agreement not to sue or press charges if she cuts the serial number out of the frame and returns it to you with compensation (or without compensation if necessary) so you know it is destroyed. At least then you will know it's gone and can avoid getting in trouble for it. The value of the gun is probably not worth getting the police involved and possibly getting yourself in trouble. You might also accept a receipt from one of those gun buybacks.

The bigger problem here could be your mom getting senile and still practicing madicine (madicine was an ironic typo for medicine but I think I'll just leave it because it fits this situation).

I'm not a lawyer and I don't even know these laws very well, so don't take any of this as legal advice.

kwansao
05-06-2012, 4:38 PM
if this story is true, i have a lot of sympathy for you.

but look at it this way, when your mother steps all over you, your rights, your freedom to make your own decision as a grown man about how to live your own life, normally you can't do anything about it.

LUCKY FOR YOU, in this particular instance, you have the full weight of the legal system to back you up. She committed at least one felony. If you kept the firearm loaded, then, it's even worse.

She has taken away your personal firearm that you have presumably for legal self defense, because she thinks that you are incapable of making your own decisions. So, she has stripped you of your ability to defend yourself (and your loved ones, including HER) because she thinks you are untrustworthy, or lacking the proper mental faculties to be trusted with an implement, that at the very least, is used to defend your own life, which a basic human right. if someone breaks into your house and tries to rob/rape/kill etc. Then, that leaves you with only your fists. When it comes to a potential violent encounter, your mother is only willing to have you play the part of a unarmed VICTIM.

by taking your gun she is telling you that she thinks you are a potential criminal, or something of that sort. If she practices medicine then she SHOULD know the value of preserving life. And if she thinks that she made a big mistake in how she raised you and as a consequence, you cannot be trusted with a firearm, then, it's HER damn fault and she needs to go to confession. Preemptively committing a crime and stealing your (presumably) legally possessed pistol is not going to fix her mistakes that she thinks that she made. (again, all presumptions based on my own prejudice). Two wrongs don't make a right. This kind of action on her part would only be appropriate if she were still your legal guardian, you were under age, and you had an illegal weapon in her home.

so, the question remains, are you going to let that slide? Do you want someone like that pushing her weight around and lording her nonsense over you for the REST OF YOUR LIFE?

if you continue to let her f*$# with your life, and just let this go, how many more years do you think she is going to keep doing this to you? File a stolen weapons report, call the damn cops and get her arrested. press charges. Do it NOW.

Good luck.

Meplat
05-06-2012, 4:50 PM
Your easiest way out is to report it lost. If anyone asks just tell the truth; one day you went to find it and it was gone. Unless you actually witnessed her take it that is the truth.

gunsmith
05-06-2012, 4:51 PM
Hello everyone, I am new to the forums and am posting here because I have a rather embarrassing and awkward legal problem related to gun ownership in California... I'm hoping that someone can give me some ideas on how to handle it.

What happened is this. I'm the legal owner of a revolver. I'm 30 years old, and my mother is getting a little senile, and she is very anti-gun. I invited her over to my place awhile back, and she stole my gun when I wasn't paying attention, and has refused to give it back to me since then.

What makes this especially difficult is that this happened over six months ago. I've been busy with other things in life and have tried to talk her into returning it, but she refuses to do so.

I'm convinced by now that the only way I will ever see my gun again is if I bring in the authorities. I hate to do this to my own mother, but I can't have a potentially dangerous weapon that I'm responsible for hidden somewhere I don't know about. Being out $700 isn't so great either. So here's my concerns...

1. Is there any way to get the authorities to make her return my gun without pressing charges against her?
2. I've let her keep it for almost eight months now. Can I get in trouble for letting her keep it or for not reporting the theft?

Thanks guys for any answers you may have, I am desperate here and greatly appreciate any insights.


long thread/didn't read it- so I do not know if anyone else suggested it, go visit her, put a lock on her bathroom door - it stays locked until she give you the gun back, tell her she can call the police if she likes - but they will take her to the old folks home for felons.

Meplat
05-06-2012, 4:57 PM
Or you could point out that you are probably going to be the one who will be picking her rest home. That works for my kids.:43:

xlimey
05-06-2012, 8:24 PM
If this is not an exercise in "trollery" on the part of the OP, Ron Solo's response earlier was probably the best way to try to resolve a situation that should never have reached this stage.

As this thread has gone on - over 3 pages so far - there have been a number of very amusing takes on the situation and that sucked me into wasting 20 minutes of my life that I will never get back. However the more input I read from you, I could not help but think that maybe your Mom was smarter than your own writings make you appear:

"...What happened is this. I'm the legal (but somewhat irresponsible?) owner of a revolver. I'm 30 years old, and my mother is getting a little senile, and she is very anti-gun. I invited her over to my place awhile back, and she stole my gun when I wasn't paying attention, and has refused to give it back to me since then.

(You say your Mom is "a little senile" however, in a later post you mention that she is working as a Doctor - if she really is getting senile, I would also be worried about her patients...)

"...What makes this especially difficult is that this happened over six months ago. I've been busy with other things in life and have tried to talk her into returning it, but she refuses to do so..."

(For the life of me I cannot imagine a circumstance where I could let something like this drag on for six months or more.)

"... I'm sure that it's very well hidden. I don't think she has a key to the lockbox I was storing it in,..."

(Have you also lost the keys to the lockbox? How many where there? Do you still have them? Either you know where they are - or you do not. Seems like you are not very good at keeping track of stuff...)

"...I'm not really that into guns, it's an expensive and (seems to me) time consuming hobby, and so I probably won't be on these forums after this resolves. Even if I were, it would likely be under a different account name as I don't expect to ever live a story like this down with those I share it with.

(Having a gun - whether for sporting or self defense - requires that you be "into" guns - certainly to a greater degree than you appear to be. If you do not take care of, secure, and practice with your weapon YOU are a liability/potential danger to yourself and others.)

"...My mom is still working as a doctor and would be crushed to go to jail, and would likely lose her job over it. It is not an easy situation but I am planning to get the gun back within the week..."

I am constantly amazed at how dopey some gun owners manage to come across when describing all too easily avoidable problems...

:facepalm:

12voltguy
05-06-2012, 8:46 PM
If this is not an exercise in "trollery" on the part of the OP, Ron Solo's response earlier was probably the best way to try to resolve a situation that should never have reached this stage.

As this thread has gone on - over 3 pages so far - there have been a number of very amusing takes on the situation and that sucked me into wasting 20 minutes of my life that I will never get back. However the more input I read from you, I could not help but think that maybe your Mom was smarter than your own writings make you appear:

"...What happened is this. I'm the legal (but somewhat irresponsible?) owner of a revolver. I'm 30 years old, and my mother is getting a little senile, and she is very anti-gun. I invited her over to my place awhile back, and she stole my gun when I wasn't paying attention, and has refused to give it back to me since then.

(You say your Mom is "a little senile" however, in a later post you mention that she is working as a Doctor - if she really is getting senile, I would also be worried about her patients...)

"...What makes this especially difficult is that this happened over six months ago. I've been busy with other things in life and have tried to talk her into returning it, but she refuses to do so..."

(For the life of me I cannot imagine a circumstance where I could let something like this drag on for six months or more.)

"... I'm sure that it's very well hidden. I don't think she has a key to the lockbox I was storing it in,..."

(Have you also lost the keys to the lockbox? How many where there? Do you still have them? Either you know where they are - or you do not. Seems like you are not very good at keeping track of stuff...)

"...I'm not really that into guns, it's an expensive and (seems to me) time consuming hobby, and so I probably won't be on these forums after this resolves. Even if I were, it would likely be under a different account name as I don't expect to ever live a story like this down with those I share it with.

(Having a gun - whether for sporting or self defense - requires that you be "into" guns - certainly to a greater degree than you appear to be. If you do not take care of, secure, and practice with your weapon YOU are a liability/potential danger to yourself and others.)

"...My mom is still working as a doctor and would be crushed to go to jail, and would likely lose her job over it. It is not an easy situation but I am planning to get the gun back within the week..."

I am constantly amazed at how dopey some gun owners manage to come across when describing all too easily avoidable problems...

:facepalm:
good post;)
irresponsible people shouldn't own guns
there I said it.
if an anti gun guy really wrote this, they must be amazed at all the replies feeling sorry for this irresponsible person......unreal:facepalm:

greg36f
05-07-2012, 10:42 AM
This is not meant to be a "Troll" comment or even a negative one, but this post seems to bring up an issue that I have seen for some time here on Cal Guns.

It seems that us as a group and even some individuals (yes, I am including myself) want to have it both ways.

We at times say that guns are simply tools, no more dangerous than a knife or even a 2 by 4 and that there should be no or little restrictions on guns based partly on that assumption.

Now here, we are seeming to say that guns are dangerous items that should always be locked up and should never be out of our sight or control. The guy’s mom (who for all we know is not a prohibited person) takes the gun and some people condemn the guy as if he let his mom keep nuclear secrets without calling he cops.

Would we act the same if his mother took a knife or a 2 by 4 without his permission.

Yeah, I know that it’s not the same and that I am exaggerating a bit for effect, but I still think that I have somewhat of a valid point.

12voltguy
05-07-2012, 10:50 AM
This is not meant to be a "Troll" comment or even a negative one, but this post seems to bring up an issue that I have seen for some time here on Cal Guns.

It seems that us as a group and even some individuals (yes, I am including myself) want to have it both ways.

We at times say that guns are simply tools, no more dangerous than a knife or even a 2 by 4 and that there should be no or little restrictions on guns based partly on that assumption.

Now here, we are seeming to say that guns are dangerous items that should always be locked up and should never be out of our sight or control. The guyís mom (who for all we know is not a prohibited person) takes the gun and some people condemn the guy as if he let his mom keep nuclear secrets without calling he cops.

Would we act the same if his mother took a knife or a 2 by 4 without his permission.

Yeah, I know that itís not the same and that I am exaggerating a bit for effect, but I still think that I have somewhat of a valid point.

but the law treats guns different
had she takin some knives or hammers, he would not be held responable if she took the hammer & built a house:D or thumped kids in the head, or someone stole hammer from her & started killing people.

he is legally on the hook, & should have reported it right away.

until the law says they are simple tools, we must treat them as hot potatoes

greg36f
05-07-2012, 11:02 AM
but the law treats guns different
had she takin some knives or hammers, he would not be held responable if she took the hammer & built a house:D or thumped kids in the head, or someone stole hammer from her & started killing people.

he is legally on the hook, & should have reported it right away.

until the law says they are simple tools, we must treat them as hot potatoes



I know that this is true in a legal sense, but I was taking more of a wider view that addressed our collective attitude. We seem to be a bit schizophrenic at times when it comes to guns.

I was also referring a bit to an earlier post / thread regarding to a mayor to wanted to take weapons from people.

I don't want to re start that particular argument, but it played a role in my bringing this up.

I mean, a lot of questions here on Cal Guns seem to revolve around the transfer of weapons with many being specific about family transfers. People offer advise on that all the time; sometimes a bit creatively (but still legal).

greg36f
05-07-2012, 11:03 AM
Or you could point out that you are probably going to be the one who will be picking her rest home. That works for my kids.:43:



When all is said and read, this is probably the winner....:D

Makes mom realize that control issues flow both ways and she had better learn to play nice,,,,,

frankDmole
05-07-2012, 12:04 PM
Interesting, OP please give us the details when you find the gun.

MindBuilder
05-07-2012, 12:57 PM
One thing to remember here is that if he had wanted to, it would have been completely legal for him to give her a long gun with no background check or other official transfer. So the law recognized his judgement to determine if she is fit to possess a gun (this law for long guns changes in 2014 I believe). If she is a peaceful, level headed doctor, then I wouldn't call it irresponsible of him to let her keep it temporarily. Of course she did commit a felony by taking it, but under the circumstances, this felony doesn't imply that she is an unreasonably dangerous risk for possesing a firearm. Ironically, somebody who was convicted of a felony like this might be one of those rare felons that could still legitimately claim a Second Amendment right to have a gun if she changed her attitude in the future.

It's very difficult to protect against insider theft like she pulled. If he had a locked gun cabinet bolted to the floor, she could have easily pried it open. If he had a safe, there are a variety of not too hard ways, which I won't mention, that an insider with easy access and little fear of prosecution could have gotten in. He probably would have had to put an alarm on the safe to give sufficient deterrence. I don't think he was irresponsible to go without an alarm.

morthrane
05-07-2012, 3:22 PM
I know that this is true in a legal sense, but I was taking more of a wider view that addressed our collective attitude. We seem to be a bit schizophrenic at times when it comes to guns.

The laws are schizophrenic, so conforming to these legal-or-felony connundrums is going to look schizophrenic.

Also, what do you expect out of people who are being forced to live a "double life" of sorts, who have to be careful about whom they tell about their firearms hobby due to very real fears of theft targeting or anti-gun legal hysterics?

greg36f
05-07-2012, 4:08 PM
The laws are schizophrenic, so conforming to these legal-or-felony connundrums is going to look schizophrenic.

Also, what do you expect out of people who are being forced to live a "double life" of sorts, who have to be careful about whom they tell about their firearms hobby due to very real fears of theft targeting or anti-gun legal hysterics?



I 100 % agree with you on this. Common sense and reasonableness is not a factor considered in many gun laws. Unfortunately, I do not see it changing much soon.

dixieD
05-07-2012, 4:34 PM
Just be very clear when you describe the degree to which she is senile. I don't believe a police officer is going to simply walk up to the front door and ask a women who has been identified as having diminished mental capacity about a firearm that she took, and one that must be assumed loaded until safely secured without taking some precaution for their safety.

Find out what their response will be if she says:
1. I didn't take it.
2. I took it but threw it out.
3. I took it but I am not going to give it back.
4. I don't know what you are talking about go pound sand.

Ask how this will go down if the conversation is on her front lawn vs. in the living room after inviting them in.

I think Meplat's response #106 is the best course of action before outsiders are brought in. Try to reason with her that you will be forced to bring police in to protect yourself from liability should the firearm be used in a crime when it was not reported as stolen. If that does not work then yes I would bring the police in, but very carefully figure out what the possible scenarios would be of such an encounter.

winnre
05-07-2012, 4:48 PM
Tell her you need it for a gun buyback.

Crowesnest
05-07-2012, 5:06 PM
If you decide to bring in the police, don't tell her first. If she believes the police are coming, she may dispose of the gun before they arrive. Of course, I'm assuming she still has it.

Another approach you might consider is taking your mom to small claims court. The court could order her to return the gun or compensate you for the cost of it. A police report would help here.

At least she's not your mother-in-law. Think what a mess that would be.

Good luck.

Small claims judges cannot order a return. you can sue in a higher (Superior) court and sue for specific performance, but it'll cost you more money You can sue her for the amount you are out, meaning the cost of a used gun.

Maestro Pistolero
05-07-2012, 5:13 PM
I'm assuming you can prove ownership.

Let the police knock on her door and tell her the gun was reported stolen and they need to retrieve it. That's it.

If she has the gun, she will give it to them. If not, then she has some 'splaining to do. Either way, you'll get more info about whether she still has the gun.

gl0ckc0ma
05-07-2012, 5:16 PM
Any updates??

Man up and do what Ron-Solo is advising!!

GROW SOME!!

Scout2Diesel
05-07-2012, 11:15 PM
If its not one thing ... Its your Mother. :facepalm:

Bet its long gone.

Bruce
05-08-2012, 8:22 AM
File a police report. Explain your situation. Assuming you have it, have them run the serial number. She may have already turned it in for destruction telling the cops that she, "...took it away from my "crazy" son."

SeanCasey
05-08-2012, 10:06 AM
Why are these threads always started by guys who just joined?

I dont know if I buy this. Like the kid who got denied LTC in sac for "forgetting" about a burglary charge and omitting it on his app. Also was a recent join date.

Well, the OP admitted he is not really into guns like most people here are, so he has had a problem for a few months that he hasn't been able to resolve, searches online, finds calguns.net sees that we have an area to ask a question, and registers to ask their question? IMO it would be more suspicious if he were a member here for several months and then suddenly posts "oh by the way....."

As a community we are best served taking the posts at face value, helping as best as we can and being friendly. If the person is breaking the law it will come out on its own or the police will catch them (their posts could even be used as evidence against them), but if the person is just trying to get help, why not make them feel welcome. Even if they don't stay around, I would rather them tell a friend "you know, I went to calguns.net for help and everyone was friendl, what a great bunch of peoples!" instead of "calguns.net, they are a bunch of adam henrys, don't waste your time going there!"

I hope he (the OP) follows the good advice given earlier and subsequently supported and repeated by Ron-Solo. I think law enforcement should be involved in this. If he goes snooping around her place to trry and find it, she will know it was him, and she may decide to get back at him by way of TRO or calling the police on him.

Squid
05-08-2012, 10:17 AM
will talk her into giving to him, then you got a handgun in a criminal's hands that you didn't report stolen, so when it is found dropped at a murder scene......

Mother or not, you need to take this plenty serious and I'd recommend reversing the child/parent roles. If she wants to live under your roof, it means living by your rules, period.

Just because she is your mother doesn't give a her a pass on stealing guns and possession of stolen property.

Lets also remember this isn't like a stolen High School year book or necklace or something. State of CA requires a written safety test and hands on 'manipulation' test before allowing purchase of a new handgun, as well as a 10 day waiting period, and she decided to blow past all that. (yes, IIRC those CA things aren't needed for 'gifts' or PPT, but still).


Why do I get the feeling something else will happen and you will be kicking yourself saying "I knew her stealing the gun was a red-flag".

NYsteveZ
05-08-2012, 12:11 PM
Explain to her that in order to get the gun, you had to go through the hoops and follow laws, just as Squid said. By her possesing and confiscating your gun, SHE broke laws AND can land both of you in jail. A gun is not a porno magazine, and you are a 30 year old man. I am not making fun, as I have relatives exactly like her-maybe worse (she is into politics and holds a position)

mhho
05-09-2012, 6:51 PM
Give her some ammo. Tell her that since she now has a gun, she will need some ammo to go with it so she can defend herself if she needs to. Turn your anti-gun right mother into a gun owner!

QQQ
05-09-2012, 6:54 PM
... We'll have thrown out the NFA before OP delivers an update. Don't hold your breath, folks.

alfred1222
05-10-2012, 1:00 AM
I've considering recording her so that I have some evidence. My brother knows that she took it, but he will not appreciate being dragged into the whole thing. The thing is, isn't recording people without their knowledge against the law in California?

I don't want to give where in California I'm located as I don't want to be identified, this is embarrassing enough as it is :)

Edit: Didn't realize what LEO stood for, obviously a law enforcement officer could record her. My mom is still working as a doctor and would be crushed to go to jail, and would likely lose her job over it. It is not an easy situation but I am planning to get the gun back within the week.

Honestly dude, i get this might sound embarrasing, but you post up your location, and i bet you can get a handful of guys to come help you search the place and find your gun/lockbox. Now idk how old she is, but it seems to me that burying ANYTHING is going to be hard to do for an old lady. SO, it will be in the house, in the attic, or under the subfloor. Go to her place, start searching. the lockbox cant be easy to hide. so quite honestly, let your balls drop and go get your gun back!!!

... We'll have thrown out the NFA before OP delivers an update. Don't hold your breath, folks.

unfortunately i agree

Flintlock Tom
05-10-2012, 10:24 AM
I apologize that I did not read the entire, 3 page, thread...

However, if this were my mother, I would be of the mind-set that I owe her far more than I can ever repay. There is nothing that I own that I would not gladly give her if she asked. There-fore, in this case, I would file an inter-familial transfer form with the DoJ and have the gun registered in her name.
There might be an issue with an HSC, but we're just "hypothicating" here anyway.:)

mrdd
05-10-2012, 11:40 AM
I apologize that I did not read the entire, 3 page, thread...

However, if this were my mother, I would be of the mind-set that I owe her far more than I can ever repay. There is nothing that I own that I would not gladly give her if she asked. There-fore, in this case, I would file an inter-familial transfer form with the DoJ and have the gun registered in her name.
There might be an issue with an HSC, but we're just "hypothicating" here anyway.:)

You can't fill that out for another person, it has to be done by the transferee. Note that it is signed under penalty of perjury.

jaybirdjtski
05-10-2012, 11:56 AM
My dad is 90 but when he was 85 he began exhibiting signs of dementia. Depression is a common side effect and depression can manifest itself via suicide or using a firearm improperly. I took possession of his handgun. He now has Alzheimer's and is in assisted living where he cannot possess a gun anyway. My point is simply that your mom is the one who should not be in possession of a firearm!! If she doesn't return it then perhaps telling her that you WILL contact the authorities might convince her to just hand it back and if not, get the police to do it for you.

kwansao
05-10-2012, 5:20 PM
My dad is 90 but when he was 85 he began exhibiting signs of dementia. Depression is a common side effect and depression can manifest itself via suicide or using a firearm improperly. I took possession of his handgun. He now has Alzheimer's and is in assisted living where he cannot possess a gun anyway. My point is simply that your mom is the one who should not be in possession of a firearm!! If she doesn't return it then perhaps telling her that you WILL contact the authorities might convince her to just hand it back and if not, get the police to do it for you.

Yes, i had a grand-uncle end his life .. Get the damn gun back.

Beelzy
05-10-2012, 5:47 PM
Too easy.....Tell her she is on the verge of committing a Felony, and in so doing she may lose her Right to Vote in the upcoming Election.

Yep.

terr0rt0telc0
05-10-2012, 5:53 PM
If she still has it or for legal sakes couldn't you get a mediator involved? Treat it like a dispute then escalate it if nothing comes of it.

12voltguy
05-10-2012, 6:03 PM
Hello everyone, I am new to the forums and am posting here because I have a rather embarrassing and awkward legal problem related to gun ownership in California... I'm hoping that someone can give me some ideas on how to handle it.

What happened is this. I'm the legal owner of a revolver. I'm 30 years old, and my mother is getting a little senile, and she is very anti-gun. I invited her over to my place awhile back, and she stole my gun when I wasn't paying attention, and has refused to give it back to me since then.

What makes this especially difficult is that this happened over six months ago. I've been busy with other things in life and have tried to talk her into returning it, but she refuses to do so.

I'm convinced by now that the only way I will ever see my gun again is if I bring in the authorities. I hate to do this to my own mother, but I can't have a potentially dangerous weapon that I'm responsible for hidden somewhere I don't know about. Being out $700 isn't so great either. So here's my concerns...

1. Is there any way to get the authorities to make her return my gun without pressing charges against her?
2. I've let her keep it for almost eight months now. Can I get in trouble for letting her keep it or for not reporting the theft?

Thanks guys for any answers you may have, I am desperate here and greatly appreciate any insights.

This!! I can't believe no one else has touched on this point.

Fer chrissakes, a SENILE old woman took your gun 8 months ago??? You're bloody lucky it hasn't ended up implicating you in some crime scene.

And that's if the OP is even telling the truth. Posting on the internet as an "alibi" is a very old trick at this point, according to some ADA friends.

At the very least, your firearm has been out of your control for 8 months by your own admission. I can't even begin to imagine all the criminal negligence-type charges that could be brought against the OP if anything were to happen (even if the OP were found innocent of any other charges!).

I've considering recording her so that I have some evidence. My brother knows that she took it, but he will not appreciate being dragged into the whole thing. The thing is, isn't recording people without their knowledge against the law in California?

I don't want to give where in California I'm located as I don't want to be identified, this is embarrassing enough as it is :)

Edit: Didn't realize what LEO stood for, obviously a law enforcement officer could record her. My mom is still working as a doctor and would be crushed to go to jail, and would likely lose her job over it. It is not an easy situation but I am planning to get the gun back within the week.

Too easy.....Tell her she is on the verge of committing a Felony, and in so doing she may lose her Right to Vote in the upcoming Election.

Yep.

she is still a Dr.
& you think
"my mother is getting a little senile"


that seems like the kind of Dr. nobody wants:confused:

Don Edmondson
05-10-2012, 6:10 PM
The best idea I come up with is to take your laptop over and let her read how may people are trying to help without having the police take her to jail mabe just mabe your mother will see the light Don

Meplat
05-10-2012, 9:19 PM
If this is not an exercise in "trollery" on the part of the OP, Ron Solo's response earlier was probably the best way to try to resolve a situation that should never have reached this stage.

As this thread has gone on - over 3 pages so far - there have been a number of very amusing takes on the situation and that sucked me into wasting 20 minutes of my life that I will never get back. However the more input I read from you, I could not help but think that maybe your Mom was smarter than your own writings make you appear:

"...What happened is this. I'm the legal (but somewhat irresponsible?) owner of a revolver. I'm 30 years old, and my mother is getting a little senile, and she is very anti-gun. I invited her over to my place awhile back, and she stole my gun when I wasn't paying attention, and has refused to give it back to me since then.

(You say your Mom is "a little senile" however, in a later post you mention that she is working as a Doctor - if she really is getting senile, I would also be worried about her patients...)

"...What makes this especially difficult is that this happened over six months ago. I've been busy with other things in life and have tried to talk her into returning it, but she refuses to do so..."

(For the life of me I cannot imagine a circumstance where I could let something like this drag on for six months or more.)

"... I'm sure that it's very well hidden. I don't think she has a key to the lockbox I was storing it in,..."

(Have you also lost the keys to the lockbox? How many where there? Do you still have them? Either you know where they are - or you do not. Seems like you are not very good at keeping track of stuff...)

"...I'm not really that into guns, it's an expensive and (seems to me) time consuming hobby, and so I probably won't be on these forums after this resolves. Even if I were, it would likely be under a different account name as I don't expect to ever live a story like this down with those I share it with.

(Having a gun - whether for sporting or self defense - requires that you be "into" guns - certainly to a greater degree than you appear to be. If you do not take care of, secure, and practice with your weapon YOU are a liability/potential danger to yourself and others.)

"...My mom is still working as a doctor and would be crushed to go to jail, and would likely lose her job over it. It is not an easy situation but I am planning to get the gun back within the week..."

I am constantly amazed at how dopey some gun owners manage to come across when describing all too easily avoidable problems...

:facepalm:

If one dwells on the information provided, starts turning over the compost heap and examining the ugly bits, one starts to notice a whiff of possible deceit and treachery that isnít on momís part.

Paul S
05-10-2012, 9:57 PM
If one dwells on the information provided, starts turning over the compost heap and examining the ugly bits, one starts to notice a whiff of possible deceit and treachery that isnít on momís part.

I am not comfortable with the story either.

Though if it is true I believe Ron Solo's advice makes the most sense.

FX-05 Xiuhcoatl
05-10-2012, 10:12 PM
tell her "the gun was loaded, and that the bullets will go off when they are 9 months old" :devil2:

MrPlink
05-10-2012, 10:25 PM
this seems a bit trolish to me

BillyBat
07-13-2012, 2:13 PM
Hi guys, remember me?

I know it's been awhile, but I finally solved my gun problem.

What I did is argued with my mom until she agreed to go with me to a gun dealer and sell the gun with me, so that she could be sure that it was sold.

Then, I bought a different gun the next day after she was out of my hair.

She won't find out that I own this one :)

I know I got trolled/mocked a lot over this, but a google search made me realize that this is not really an unheard of problem. There's tons of "what if my mom stole my gun? Not saying she did, but what if it happened?" posts and other similar such things out there. Some moms just won't let go and they find ways to intrude into your life, but they are still your mom and you can't just send the cops at them.

I do want to extend my thanks to the people who supplied me with ideas or offered to help me with this problem, especially Ron Solo who seems like a great guy. Thanks for the help and the chance to vent a bit, Calguns.

Good luck in your endeavors gentlemen and happy trolling mentlegen.

em9sredbeam
07-13-2012, 2:18 PM
That's good about your gun. My mother, as much as I love her, would be having the cops called on her. Not without fair warning of course, but something like that is serious to me. Especially if while it is in her posession it gets stolen and someone gets hurt. You should come over to the dark side and join us gun toting trolls. We are like any family, we have disagreements and mock each other in the name of fun.

Glock22Fan
07-13-2012, 2:30 PM
Well done, glad you got it sorted. So, she's perfectly happy to have some unknown Joe or Jane take possession of your firearm, but she does not trust you. Nice.

Big Ben
07-13-2012, 2:39 PM
Thanks for the update. I was just wondering about this thread the other day. Good to hear that everything got taken care of. Family and loved ones ... they can sure make life interesting.

OleCuss
07-13-2012, 2:45 PM
Pretty good solution to the problem.

Congratulations!

Now you need to tell us what kind of firearm you got - many of us are enthusiasts, after all.

luchador768
07-13-2012, 2:52 PM
You should have tried holding your breath or stomping your feet. It's mom kryptonite.

rtlltj
07-13-2012, 3:03 PM
You should have just climbed out of the basement and asked for it back. :rofl2:

wash
07-13-2012, 3:04 PM
Just remember what happened when it's time to take away her car keys and put her in a home.

And you can send her an X-mas card with a picture of you posing with your firearm family.

Wiz-of-Awd
07-13-2012, 3:15 PM
Maybe this has been said, but how about in intra-familial transfer to mom. You're out the gun, but it's her problem then!

A.W.D.

Decoligny
07-13-2012, 3:25 PM
Maybe this has been said, but how about in intra-familial transfer to mom. You're out the gun, but it's her problem then!

A.W.D.

From the OP: "I'm 30 years old, and my mother is getting a little senile,"

You really want to do an intra-familial transfer to someone who is entering into the early stages of alzhiemer's?

j-rod
07-13-2012, 3:35 PM
I love it when a plan comes together.

Glad it all worked out. Biometric safe time?

Fate
07-13-2012, 3:36 PM
You shoulda hidden her teeth until she caved. :D

Glad it worked out.

gunsmith
07-13-2012, 6:11 PM
You shoulda hidden her teeth until she caved. :D

Glad it worked out.

BTW, do not friend your mom on faceboook, it gets old

Wiz-of-Awd
07-13-2012, 6:29 PM
From the OP: "I'm 30 years old, and my mother is getting a little senile,"

You really want to do an intra-familial transfer to someone who is entering into the early stages of alzhiemer's?

Um, yeah - pretty simply and sound logic really...

She already had the gun, remember?
She wouldn't release the gun back to her son, remember?
The OP didn't really want to involve the police, remember?

A transfer releases his liability and legal attachment to the gun, without having to involve the police which was potentially an issue for other reasons. This type of transfer is also a very easy process, without any real requirements beyond the familial relationship.

Mother had the gun and wasn't giving it up. May as well have it legally and release the OP's liability of its possession.

Barring another solution (which appears to have been found), problem solved with the least amount of potential for legal complications - for the OP or the mother.

A.W.D.

Meaneng
07-13-2012, 6:31 PM
I used to make fun of my mom for watching soap operas. Then I find myself reading all four pages of this.......
At least this had an actual ending. Thanks for the update.

NYsteveZ
07-13-2012, 6:31 PM
Very good, glad all is well. Keep your stuff that you dont want your mom to know you are into away from her finding out.

BillyBat
07-13-2012, 6:35 PM
I love it when a plan comes together.

Glad it all worked out. Biometric safe time?
Funny you should say so because the new gun is in a safe.

NoNOS67
07-13-2012, 8:21 PM
That's awesome! Glad you got everything sorted out. :thumbup:

mmayer707
07-13-2012, 9:06 PM
Funny you should say so because the new gun is in a safe.

So, what did you get?

lordvader
07-14-2012, 12:30 AM
Just do what she did and report it stolen if you dont find it.

Mssr. Elegantť
07-14-2012, 12:57 AM
Maybe this has been said, but how about in intra-familial transfer to mom. You're out the gun, but it's her problem then!

A.W.D.

I doubt his mom would have been willing to fill out, sign, and mail in the intra-familial transfer form.

alfred1222
07-14-2012, 1:13 AM
Sweet, glad u got it all worked out. I will admit that it came off a bit trollish, but hey, sometimes some situations are a bit outside the normal scope of occurrences

Connor P Price
07-14-2012, 2:27 AM
Now you need to tell us what kind of firearm you got - many of us are enthusiasts, after all.

Nailed it. This thread now requires make and model.

mrdd
07-14-2012, 5:20 AM
Maybe this has been said, but how about in intra-familial transfer to mom. You're out the gun, but it's her problem then!

A.W.D.

The form is filled out by the person who receives the item. How are you going to get her to fill it out?

offdutyalot
07-14-2012, 5:57 AM
I can't believe I read this entire thread..........lol

Well, we all lived happily ever after......:rolleyes:

My gut instinct says " Hey Mike, it's me, your gut instinct....you remember me, right? This guy just turned in a paper for a sociology class based on a bogus story.......wonder if he got an A.... senile mother still working as a doctor???"

Just kidding :D My dog woke me up at 4am and when I went to put him outside, the 80 pounder knocked my 220 pound 80% asleep arse into the doorknob head first......So, I'm a bit silly with the biggest "goose egg" on my head I've had in years. This, my friends is a true story.

Wiz-of-Awd
07-14-2012, 7:21 AM
The form is filled out by the person who receives the item. How are you going to get her to fill it out?

Just do it, like she stole the gun :D

Seriously, my dad and I trans'd a revolver [to me] - simple form, and really he could've filled it out (yeah OK, forging my signature). Being a mailed in form, as long as BATF got their $19, no one would be the wiser.

A.W.D.

Wiz-of-Awd
07-14-2012, 7:23 AM
deleted by me - redundant

mrdd
07-14-2012, 7:49 AM
Just do it, like she stole the gun :D

Seriously, my dad and I trans'd a revolver [to me] - simple form, and really he could've filled it out (yeah OK, forging my signature). Being a mailed in form, as long as BATF got their $19, no one would be the wiser.

A.W.D.

First of all, this is a CA DOJ form, not ATF. Second, this form is signed under penalty of perjury. As in, felony. Got that?

billmaykafer
07-14-2012, 8:20 AM
have atf do a fast and furious on it. no perjury,no jail time ,no discloser.

Wiz-of-Awd
07-14-2012, 7:05 PM
First of all, this is a CA DOJ form, not ATF. Second, this form is signed under penalty of perjury. As in, felony. Got that?

Sorry mrdd, for my mistake...

Thing is though, and let's be honest here....

In all likelihood, "Mom" probably would've signed the form herself to keep the gun away from the OP.

As well, it's pretty safe to say that the "felony" you describe (yes, you are right) would've have stayed a little secret between the parent and the child, and realistically never amounted to anything or become "knowledge" of any other - LE included.

Let's not forget the real, and first felon here - Mom.

Over and out, signing off from this thread.

Regards,
A.W.D.

12voltguy
07-14-2012, 7:15 PM
I don't belive it