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View Full Version : can you shoot a 7.62x51 thru a mosin nagant?


sffred
05-01-2012, 9:04 PM
I know this may sound stupid but can you shoot a 7.62x51/.308 thru a 7.62x54 Mosin-Nagant? how about 7.62x39?

I know the bullet diameter is the same but i was wondering about the chamber depth and extractor?

I'm a rookie on mosin's so hopefully no one knock's me here :)

sffred

berg
05-01-2012, 9:06 PM
No way no how.

send it_hit
05-01-2012, 9:06 PM
nope. 7.62x54r is your only option.

MrPlink
05-01-2012, 9:11 PM
I'm a rookie on mosin's so hopefully no one knock's me here :)

sffred

well at risk of "knocking you" you sound like a rookie to guns period by asking something like that, but none of us were born "experts" right, so why worry?

Anyways,

You can shoot 32acp out of it, but it requires a "conversion" which in this case is pretty much a chamber insert, so you can only go 1 round at a time.

Looks like this http://image.sportsmansguide.com/dimage/180308_ts.JPG?cell=300,300&cvt=jpeg

OldShooter32
05-01-2012, 9:22 PM
I can attest that a 7.62x51 will fire reasonably well through a Mosin -- and shoots high for that matter. Old guys need to wear reading glasses when loading from a box...

PEZHEAD265
05-01-2012, 9:26 PM
It is never safe to shoot a different shell in a gun it's not made for.7.62x54 is a 7.62 dia bullet with a case length of 54.So all of the other 7.62 ammo are going to be shorter or longer and will cause damage.To make things more complicated the foreign ammo is measured differently then American ammo where 7.62[Ame.] is 308 and 7.62[for] is 310-311 dia.

MrPlink
05-01-2012, 9:30 PM
I can attest that a 7.62x51 will fire reasonably well through a Mosin -- and shoots high for that matter. Old guys need to wear reading glasses when loading from a box...

that is very ill advised.

Lets keep in mind 7.62 is just a name/general descriptor.

Take .223 for example, its actually closer .224.

The biggest thing that you will overlook if you are simply looking at the dimensions of a cartridge is the chamber size of the intended firearm!


p.s.
7.62Nato or 308 is actually 7.82mm
where as russian 7.62 is actually 7.92
So what is in a name?

Richard Erichsen
05-01-2012, 10:05 PM
well at risk of "knocking you" you sound like a rookie to guns period by asking something like that, but none of us were born "experts" right, so why worry?

Anyways,

You can shoot 32acp out of it, but it requires a "conversion" which in this case is pretty much a chamber insert, so you can only go 1 round at a time.

Looks like this http://image.sportsmansguide.com/dimage/180308_ts.JPG?cell=300,300&cvt=jpeg

I know you said 32 ACP, but why does that bottlenose case in the image look like 7.62x25 mm? I know about those sorts of sleeves, never heard about .32 ACP.

R

Moonshine
05-01-2012, 10:06 PM
Isn't there some risk of not having a complete seal when chambering the round? Seems to me you could end up with a pipe bomb with one end open if you try this...

MrPlink
05-01-2012, 10:40 PM
I know you said 32 ACP, but why does that bottlenose case in the image look like 7.62x25 mm? I know about those sorts of sleeves, never heard about .32 ACP.

R

by the picture you are right, and IIRC there is a 7.62x25 conversion as well, but most of the sleeves Ive seen before are for 32cal family

NYY
05-01-2012, 10:44 PM
i can clearly see that you know the rifle is chambered for 7.62x54R.... HOW DO YOU come up with the question for 7.62x51.......

MrPlink
05-01-2012, 10:47 PM
i can clearly see that you know the rifle is chambered for 7.62x54R.... HOW DO YOU come up with the question for 7.62x51.......


same prefix numbers in the diameter?

I got a lot of newer to shooting friends (well, some dont shoot at all) that hear 50cal and get it mixed up with every kind of 50cal out there.
Like the Dessert Eagle in 50bmg ....

B!ngo
05-02-2012, 12:27 AM
So the guy even notes in his preamble that he is a noob but you still feel inclined to flame him? Geez.
Whatever happened to the adage, 'there's no such thing as stupid questions, only... (well you know the rest)'?
Sorry for the flame, but I've been shooting for only 15 years or so and am most definitely a newbie (sp).
B

i can clearly see that you know the rifle is chambered for 7.62x54R.... HOW DO YOU come up with the question for 7.62x51.......

Josh Smith
05-02-2012, 2:53 AM
I can attest that a 7.62x51 will fire reasonably well through a Mosin -- and shoots high for that matter. Old guys need to wear reading glasses when loading from a box...

The Mosin does not have the best venting system.

You're firing a rimless case in a rifle designed for rimmed cartridges and you're also short by 3mm or so.

That's a lot in a chamber. You're asking for case head separation.

I would love to see a picture of that 7.62x51mm brass after it's been fired in the Mosin!

Josh

lawhite92
05-02-2012, 8:25 AM
probably not a good idea...

llamatrnr
05-02-2012, 9:11 AM
Seems a reasonable question, considering the number of threads/posts we've all seen regarding .223/.556, no?

lawhite92
05-02-2012, 9:48 AM
.223 and 5.56 mm....556 would be bigger than a .50 cal.

lawhite92
05-02-2012, 9:51 AM
and i believe .223 and 5.56 are the same cartridge size just different pressures where as 7.62x51 and 54R are different size cartridges although the same diameter bullet??

FX-05 Xiuhcoatl
05-02-2012, 9:57 AM
:threadjacked: can you shoot 308win in a chamber for 7.62x51 :troll:

lawhite92
05-02-2012, 10:06 AM
:threadjacked: can you shoot 308win in a chamber for 7.62x51 :troll:

hahahaha:rofl2:

llamatrnr
05-02-2012, 10:07 AM
.223 and 5.56 mm....556 would be bigger than a .50 cal.

Sorry for the typo; .556 would most definitely not work! :D

lawhite92
05-02-2012, 10:09 AM
Sorry for the typo; .556 would most definitely not work! :D

haha no worries :)

The Right to Bear Arms
05-02-2012, 12:25 PM
well at risk of "knocking you" you sound like a rookie to guns period by asking something like that, but none of us were born "experts" right, so why worry?

Anyways,

You can shoot 32acp out of it, but it requires a "conversion" which in this case is pretty much a chamber insert, so you can only go 1 round at a time.

Looks like this http://image.sportsmansguide.com/dimage/180308_ts.JPG?cell=300,300&cvt=jpeg

I didn't start this thread but I want to thank you for sharing the tidbit of information on the chamber insert. Agreed ! I'd rather have a conscientious newbie running his gun safety precautions with diligence and care where shooting is concerned. Talent, Knowledge, and Experience isn't much good if you're not around to enjoy it.

Sunday
05-02-2012, 8:32 PM
Isn't there some risk of not having a complete seal when chambering the round? Seems to me you could end up with a pipe bomb with one end open if you try this...No think about it.

Toddcal13
05-02-2012, 8:34 PM
I know this may sound stupid but can you shoot a 7.62x51/.308 thru a 7.62x54 Mosin-Nagant? how about 7.62x39?

I know the bullet diameter is the same but i was wondering about the chamber depth and extractor?

I'm a rookie on mosin's so hopefully no one knock's me here :)

sffred

If you want it to blow up, yes. Otherwise, no. Read up on your rifle

repubconserv
05-02-2012, 8:44 PM
Can you shoot 308 out of x54r? Is it possible?

Yes It is possible. You can shoot just about anything that fits in your chamber. I saw a thread a few years ago about someone shooting a 308 out of a 30-06.

Should you do it? Is it smart? No! avoid shooting incorrect ammo through your guns.

There is an exception The few chambers that accept shorter cartridges/shells are generally for rimmed cartridges with straight case walls. You already mentioned the 12ga shotgun. Other examples are shooting .38 Specials out of a .357 Magnum chamber and .22 Short out of a .22LR chamber.

Bottle necked cartridges and cartridges with tapered cases generally don't allow this. There are other calibers that share almost the same dimensions and will actually fit and fire in a firearm chambered for a different cartridge but are unsafe to do so because one of them is of a much higher pressure loading.


BTW OP: ^ that quote is from a thread I made when I was the super noob on CGN.... don't feel too bad

locktime
05-02-2012, 8:56 PM
Can you put diesel in the tank of your gasoline engine vehicle?

Yes, you can, but the results will not be good.

tujungatoes
05-02-2012, 9:34 PM
I saw a thread a few years ago about someone shooting a 308 out of a 30-06.


I've seen the resulting fire formed brass. It's pretty damned hilarious. Looks like it'd make an interesting big bore wildcat.:D

fd15k
05-04-2012, 10:29 AM
Would it be possible to rechamber a Mosin for 7.62 NATO ?

Richard Erichsen
05-04-2012, 1:08 PM
Would it be possible to rechamber a Mosin for 7.62 NATO ?

Yes, by re-barreling the action and exchanging the bolt or modifying the bolt face. Given the costs involved, it probably doesn't make much sense.

Another reason to consider sticking with 7.62x54R is the cost of ammo. You can shoot ANY of the milsurp rounds in the Nagant, but the same cannot be said of the semi auto rifles like the Dragunov and the PSL. 7.62x54R is still being manufactured and the stock piles go back at least 75 years for a 110 year old design. The majority of milsurp is going to be of 1950s-1980s vintage.

At less than 1/3 the price for .308 or 7.62 NATO, why change caliber? At shorter ranges it is very much equivalent to 7.62 NATO ballistically. At 600 meters plus, it retains downrange velocity better and behaves more like .30-06 due to the longer, lower BC bullets used even on many of the older cartridges.

R

Josh Smith
05-04-2012, 1:45 PM
Would it be possible to rechamber a Mosin for 7.62 NATO ?

Hello,

You could. Other popular conversions have been to .30-06 and the 8mm Mauser (7.92x57, correctly).

The conversion to .30-06 was actually done by OUR military when they were using the Mosin! However, these conversions are now considered UNSAFE to fire!

The 8x57/8mm Mauser/7.92x57 are generally considered OK. If you don't rebarrel you'll have a squeeze bore effect, so watch it!

The Poles did this for a military rifle. Meet the WZ91:

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/attachments/powder-keg/17792d1232913912-polish-mosin-nagant-wz-1891-98-25-short-rifle-mnr_0060.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/17_izzy1_001.jpg

Not mine, just Google pics, but it gives you some idea.

By the way, that invoice on the bottom... the guy lucked out. It's easily a $2000 rifle.

The 7.62x54R is the ballistic superior of the 7.62x51. At 150 grains it's about evenly matched, but once you get into 174 grains plus, the longer 7.62x54R case just handles the longer bullets better.

Of course, the 7.62x63 is better than either at handling long, heavy bullets.

If you handload, you can get more out of a 7.62x54R than from a 7.62x51. Fireform the brass and you'll have two support positions on the 7.52x54R, and as an added bonus, you'll have a push-feed action.

If you do not handload, there are much better hunting propositions out there for the 7.62x51 than for the 7.62x54R.

Just a matter of what you want to do with it.

Now, if you want to work it to its full potential, we can discuss loads, powders, bullets, and such:

http://www.smith-sights.com/resources/50%20yard%204%20shot.jpg

http://www.smith-sights.com/resources/first%20target.jpg

http://www.smith-sights.com/resources/reload%202.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/WabashShootist/Mosin%20Nagant/detailed.jpg

The above is what the typical Mosin is capable of, with open sights, when properly set up and shooting handloads.

Regards,

Josh

Bhobbs
05-04-2012, 6:52 PM
A firearm is a machine designed to operate in a precise way. The chamber is cut to support a case while it is fired creating tens of thousands of PSI. If you use the incorrect ammo, it won't be supported properly meaning that pressure will not be contained the way it should.

Can you fire 7.62x51 NATO in a rifle chambered for 7.62x54r? Sure it might work but is it recommended? No. Is it safe? Hell no.

kwansao
05-04-2012, 9:00 PM
no way.

7.62x54R is incredibly cheap, what's the problem?

OldShooter32
05-04-2012, 9:33 PM
that is very ill advised.

Lets keep in mind 7.62 is just a name/general descriptor.

Take .223 for example, its actually closer .224.

The biggest thing that you will overlook if you are simply looking at the dimensions of a cartridge is the chamber size of the intended firearm!


p.s.
7.62Nato or 308 is actually 7.82mm
where as russian 7.62 is actually 7.92
So what is in a name?


I wasn't suggesting it was a good idea; merely that it had happened due to poor attention. It worked and there was no further brain damage to the shooter.

SURVIVOR619
05-04-2012, 9:38 PM
Some people are SOOOOOO pro at all times... BORN PRO.. I had to ask a question about my brother's FAL, to which I did not know anything about and got all flamed up... Again, super pro bro..

Thanks for asking the question OP, cause one day if I need such an answer, I'll recall this thread.

Respect, Survivor.

kendog4570
05-04-2012, 10:32 PM
I know this may sound stupid but can you shoot a 7.62x51/.308 thru a 7.62x54 Mosin-Nagant?


Probably work on side shot. Length-wise would be tough for any small arm caliber.
30 M2 ball will definitely go through both sides of a Muncie cast iron 3-speed transmission, and bust any gears it hits.:D

stitchnicklas
05-04-2012, 11:35 PM
:eek:

Vlad 11
05-05-2012, 12:54 AM
Well. you can shoot a .308 projectile thru a Mosin but it may not get full purchase on the rifling in a typical .311 barrel


I know you said 32 ACP, but why does that bottlenose case in the image look like 7.62x25 mm? I know about those sorts of sleeves, never heard about .32 ACP.

I have the inserts and have good fun with them. Fun for plinking at close range pistol targets. Please note that the .32 acp is not recommended for the longer 91/30 but is ok in a carbine. I use .32 S&W long. they will fit .32 HR too

The 7.62x25 is kind of a PITA as the case tends to stick in the insert and needs to be firmly tapped out. The .32 slides right out

Flouncer
05-05-2012, 10:09 AM
A good decent question that desrves a decent answer.

Key words:

Rimmed case, semi rimmed case, case width, Headspace

The 7.62x54r case width is 0.489"
The 7.62x51 case width is 0.070"

Those little thousands or in this case hundredths of an inch are important.

Lots of things to go wrong at 50-60,000 psi

No.

7.62mm= nothing. Nothing. not .308 or .311. It equals 0.300 inches. It's just a name.

fighterpilot562
05-05-2012, 2:08 PM
Dont do it OP, real bad idea. buy ammo that is required and nothing else

HonkingAntelope
05-05-2012, 4:52 PM
As others said, you may well get away with it, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to be the guy shooting on the lane next to you while you're experimenting around.

At best, you're risking fouling your chamber to the point where it won't chamber 7,62x54mmR until you clean out all the copper buildup. At worst, you're risking major injury to yourself and others. Just imagine if you tried shooting a 7.62x39mm, and the bullet somehow snagged on the edge of the chamber instead of pointing into the barrel.

If it's a zombie invasion and you ran out of your ammo, I suppose the benefits would outweigh the risks, but until then stick to the ammo your gun is designed for.