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View Full Version : Thinking of getting a "Polymer" Pistol


edidj13
05-01-2012, 5:03 PM
I currently have an SA TRP Operater 1911 and now I think I want a Polymer Type Pistol for my next. I shot 50rds of the SA XD40 Service Model today and I've decided that I like the .40S&W caliber. Afterwards, I handled the SW M&P40, and the Ruger SR40. I think I like the "feel" of the M&P, but the XD40 felt good shooting, too. I guess I should try shooting the M&P40 and the Ruger but I would like to know some of the thoughts all you out there with more experience of these types of guns.

-edi.

CAglock20c
05-01-2012, 5:11 PM
no experience with the m&p or ruger, but theyre all quality guns and anyone else will tell you what im about to tell you: get the gun that fits your hand and you shoot with the best. plain and simple

TheThousands
05-01-2012, 5:13 PM
All of those are good choices and I don't think you'll go wrong with any of them. That being said I like the M&P .40 the best despite owning a few XD's myself. Have you tried a glock 23 or 22 yet?

CAglock20c
05-01-2012, 5:16 PM
if it were my decision, it would be a toss up between the M&P and the Xd...and I'd probably go with the XD

Lifeon2whls
05-01-2012, 5:17 PM
I shot the M&P and the Glock back to back and ended up with the Glock. If you are able to "understand" and work with the Glock trigger then it will shoot amazingly well. The people I have spoken to that don't like the pistol really haven't come to terms with how to properly shot that gun and try to shoot it like they do their 1911 or some other gun they are used to.

cfusionpm
05-01-2012, 5:18 PM
I love my XDM9. Fits my hand like a glove and shoots like a dream. It doesn't have that high end quality feel like my 1911, but it's very nice for a polymer and is my go-to first and foremost over any other pistol I own.

Great erganomics, great accuracy, great sight radius, easy take down. I love mine.

edidj13
05-01-2012, 5:23 PM
Yeah, I understand that the gun that fits the best in hand will most likely be the the best shooter for the individual. That part makes sense to me... I guess I'm just looking for personal experiences thru the calguns community to help weed out the week. The XD40 felt realy good shooting, I'm kinda leaning towards the V10 version to help mitigate the "snap/recoil" of the the .40cal (altho, the .40s&m is quite manageable for me). One thing I can't stand about Glocks is the Wierd (to me) grip angle and shape of the grip. Granted, its a great gun and I honor its reputation, I just don't like the way it fits in my hand...

-edi.

razr
05-01-2012, 5:25 PM
Ive got an itch for an HK USP full size in 40. More money but way cool. Couldn't go wrong with a Glock and if you can find a German made Walther P99. Check out HKs before you make a decision.

CAglock20c
05-01-2012, 5:27 PM
Yeah, I understand that the gun that fits the best in hand will most likely be the the best shooter for the individual. That part makes sense to me... I guess I'm just looking for personal experiences thru the calguns community to help weed out the week. The XD40 felt realy good shooting, I'm kinda leaning towards the V10 version to help mitigate the "snap/recoil" of the the .40cal (altho, the .40s&m is quite manageable for me). One thing I can't stand about Glocks is the Wierd (to me) grip angle and shape of the grip. Granted, its a great gun and I honor its reputation, I just don't like the way it fits in my hand...

-edi.

I have a brand new in the box XD40 V10 with 2 12 rd rebuild kits i may be selling...let me know if youre interested

orangeusa
05-01-2012, 5:41 PM
Try a Beretta PX4. I just bought one after staying with metal for years....

Really nice gun, not too expensive, and has a great reputation and great reliability.

.

chrisf
05-01-2012, 5:55 PM
All good choices. Go with whatever feels best OVERALL for you. But you can't go wrong with either one of them.

edidj13
05-01-2012, 6:35 PM
I was waiting for someone to chime in for H&K, Walther, and Berreta. I have been doing some reaserch on polymer type pistols for a while, which had lead me to those options as well. H&K has a great reputation and has been recommended to me a few times. The price tag on H&K on the other hand, is kinda high for me to accept. Is "you get what you pay for" the case with H&K? I hear good things about Walther and their history is among the famous. But I don't hear enough to make me consider them highly. The Beretta PX4 Storm seems like it would be a great consideration because I've handled it and it feels great in my hand. The Rotataing barrel, said to help absorb some recoil, would be a great compramise over barrel porting, (such as the V10 models of the XD's) which would cause clouded sights after slight use, so I've heard.

Another weighing factor for my decision is the manufacturer it's self. From experience, Springfield Armory has Great Customer Service and offers a Life Time Warranty for the TRP Op I already have. I would assume they would offer the same service for their XD line. Does Smith & Wesson, Ruger, Beretta, Walther, H&K, and Glock offer this as well? What about Quality Assurance? Who Can I expect the greatest quality from my contenders?...

Thanks for all the responses thus far! This has been great in helping me decide on my next family, home, and self defence weapon.
-edi.

coq
05-01-2012, 6:53 PM
Springfield XD does a lot of advertising, but for the real deal, look to Glock or M&P. Read up.

BajaJames83
05-01-2012, 6:54 PM
Not too long ago I was in the same boat. I ended up choosing the M&P liked the way it felt and I shoot it great. I also like the fact its one of a few still made in the US

NapaCountyShooter
05-01-2012, 7:02 PM
I haven't shot the Ruger, but I've shot the M&P and XD fairly extensively. I liked the feel of the M&P40 substantially more personally, but of course, it all comes down to personal preference like always.

cfusionpm
05-01-2012, 7:33 PM
Springfield XD does a lot of advertising, but for the real deal, look to Glock or M&P. Read up.

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/general-sa-xd-xd-m-talk/156561-cutting-through-hype-myths-xd-good-enough-professional-use.html

Don the savage
05-01-2012, 7:35 PM
The original is still the king. Fullsize USP in 40. Fully supported chamber and the features are the closest to the 1911 of all of the polymer pistols. Its what john browning would have made today if he was still alive. Its more expensive but you canpick up a used one for 6-700. Well worth the money. I own 5 glocks, love the format, but i only own one 40 and its the usp.

coq
05-01-2012, 7:51 PM
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/general-sa-xd-xd-m-talk/156561-cutting-through-hype-myths-xd-good-enough-professional-use.html

What, a pro-XD thread on XD Talk? Not my fight...just recommending the OP dig deep and read what unbiased pros say.

orangeusa
05-01-2012, 7:58 PM
What, a pro-XD thread on XD Talk? Not my fight...just recommending the OP dig deep and read what unbiased pros say.

Yup, once again the proper response is to - shoot them all and pick what fits your hand, and what you shoot well with.

PLEASE - don't go for price. The list of guns here range from $500-1k.

You can shoot 2k rounds of 9mm or .40 or .45 and easily burn through $500..... :)

You'll know when you have the gun you want in your hand. It'll make you smile.

One tiny other thing - some guns have reasonable mag prices - some just insane. Check into mag prices since you'll probably need 4 (or many more...)...

.

berlingoff
05-01-2012, 8:00 PM
I have the SR40 and totally in love with it. Buddy has the XD40 and I prefer the overall feel of the Ruger. Super reliable, shoots everything I have fed it. Easy to take down and clean, real accurate. Nothing bad to say about it at all.

cfusionpm
05-01-2012, 8:27 PM
What, a pro-XD thread on XD Talk? Not my fight...just recommending the OP dig deep and read what unbiased pros say.
It had plenty of criticisms, including the trigger, sight picture, mag release, bore axis, and striker retainer pin. Actually reading through it, it seemed like a pretty unbiased take on someone who has used it in their daily life for 10k rounds.

But I'm probably a bit bias because I own an XDM 9mm and XD45 Compact in addition to my 1911 and 92FS. In my hands, the XDM shoots the best (still new to 1911s), and I've never had an issue with either of them. The feel, pointing, aiming, gripping, and recoil impulse of the XDM just seems to fit my hands really well.

cwin
05-01-2012, 8:33 PM
My favorite polymer pistols...

1. Glock
2. XD
3. M&P

Can't go wrong with any of those.

redrex
05-01-2012, 9:10 PM
Ok I started with 1911 and about a year ago I decided to get a poly gun. I looked at block, wow, worst ergonomics I've ever felt on a pistol. Then I looked at M&P and xd. They were ok. I ended up getting a Kahr in 45. I wanted to keep the same caliber I shoot normally and I felt it had the best value for the money. As you can see below, it's for sale. Not because it isn't a great gun. Heck I shoot it better then any other pistol I own. The thing is that I'm use to the 1911 system and the striker system just seems so foreign.

I'd suggest either the FNP/FNX or Siggs. They are good quality poly arms that will more closely remind you of the 1911.

edidj13
05-01-2012, 9:30 PM
I would say I'm a 1911 guy myself. Me personally, if I'm going to shoot a 45acp its going to be thru a 1911. Now, for other callibers like the .40S&W or the 9mm which I also enjoy shooting I would lean toward other type pistols. Altho, I bet shooting the 40 or 9 thru a 1911 would nice too (oh crap, don't get me thinking about this now....) But, I would like to own a Poly gun or two. There's just so many great options to choose from. And, I also hear the H&K USP is also good example of what a new age poly 1911 would be. Don't know how much of that is true, yet. I think this Thursday l'll try out the M&P40, the Ruger SR40, and hopefully the H&K USP40 if I can find one and maybe even the PX4 Storm.

-edi.

orangeusa
05-01-2012, 10:02 PM
Most of the polymer guns are strikers with the 'safety' trigger.

A few are DA/SA (Rugers and Beretta PX4 come to mind - although Ruger has some strikers also).

Some dislike strikers, some dislike the DA/SA concept.

jdmacl
05-01-2012, 10:15 PM
I have a Ruger KP944 in .40, a Sig 226 in .40 and then decided I too needed a plastic gun. I got a S/W M&P (since I have a classic S/W .357) compact .40. Absolutely love the gun! Even in view of it being compact, I actually shoot just as well with it, if not better sometimes, because of it's great ergonomics, and I think it's a very well assembled and thought-out weapon. You can't go wrong with a S/W.

deltax
05-01-2012, 10:34 PM
I have shot the Glock, M&P, and XD. Didn't care for the glock, there is just something about the trigger and the grip angle that I can't warm up to. The XD sort of just does everything ok imo. I however really liked the M&P ergos as well as the trigger. It is also lefty friendly and the interchangeable backstraps are a nice feature.

I ended up going with the M&P. Also, not sure if you considered it but the Sig SP2022 is a nice gun at a relatively low price point(it is also hammer fired as opposed to striker fired). I was actually going to get one however I went with the M&P instead after the whole Turner's/Sig shipping error.

Travis590A1
05-01-2012, 11:42 PM
I have a Ruger SR9c and my buddy has the SR40 and both are very reliable and comfortable the nice thing is the safety on them is very similar to a 1911 as far as location for muscle memory. I dont like the .40 s&w round all that much so I personally dont own one but I have over 2,000 rounds through my SR9c with only 1 malfunction (cause I was holding it gangsta style aka limp wrisitng lol) it is very accurate as well. Point being dont over look Ruger, its American made and IMHO it can hold its own against Glock, XD, and M&P etc. My Ruger is my nightstand gun I paid $475 out the door and it has had less malfuntions than my dads Glock 23 CCW lol. Goodluck dont let the Brand Name get you most big name polymer guns go will go bang when you squeeze the trigger. For me the deciding factors are price, and more importantly the way it feels in your hands. For me it was a Ruger.

redrex
05-02-2012, 12:59 PM
I would say I'm a 1911 guy myself. Me personally, if I'm going to shoot a 45acp its going to be thru a 1911. Now, for other callibers like the .40S&W or the 9mm which I also enjoy shooting I would lean toward other type pistols. Altho, I bet shooting the 40 or 9 thru a 1911 would nice too (oh crap, don't get me thinking about this now....) But, I would like to own a Poly gun or two. There's just so many great options to choose from. And, I also hear the H&K USP is also good example of what a new age poly 1911 would be. Don't know how much of that is true, yet. I think this Thursday l'll try out the M&P40, the Ruger SR40, and hopefully the H&K USP40 if I can find one and maybe even the PX4 Storm.

-edi.

You seem to be about where I was. I'm now truly obsessing over lightweight 9mm compact 1911's :) The problem is that they are stupidly overpriced.

Also my .02 on the USP is that it's a great gun but very bulky. If you could shave about a 1/4 of it off to slim it down I'd say that yes, it is what the 1911 should have evolved into.

Legasat
05-02-2012, 1:10 PM
When I went looking for 9mm, my top 3 ended up being:

1. S&W M&P9
2. XD9
3. Ruger SR9

I don't see how you can wrong with any of them.

I ended up with M&P because it was the most comfortable, but that's just me. If you shoot enough rounds through them, one of them will speak to you.

edidj13
05-02-2012, 1:11 PM
As far as compact 1911's I realy like Springfield Armory's Loaded Micro. But the EMP's are realy appealing too. Possibly his and her weapons for me and the wifey... I'd take the 40s&w and 9mm for her.

I wish the H&K USP was a bit less bulky without having to step into the P2000 line. Other than that and price, I would say its among the best of Poly Pistols.

-edi.

GunHo
05-02-2012, 1:19 PM
Try a Beretta PX4. I just bought one after staying with metal for years....

Really nice gun, not too expensive, and has a great reputation and great reliability.

.

Yes, I'm the same way and about to get my 5th metal pistol. Trying to justify my first poly gun. I've seen the Beretta PX4 and it looks nice.

edidj13
05-02-2012, 1:33 PM
It does look pretty slick and it definitely feels good in my hand! It might be a lil top heavy/bulky for me but I'm sure if I decided to go with the PX4 Storm, I'm sure I could look past its minor "negatives". It's definitely a contender!

-edi.

DArBad
05-02-2012, 1:50 PM
Another vote for the Beretta PX4 Storm, followed very closely by the Smith&Wesson's M&P.

Jimbo60
05-02-2012, 1:52 PM
My personal vote is the M&P series.

Owned a Glock 17 for a good long while eventually sold it. Not because I didn't like it, I put the money toward a Sprinfield loaded 1911. I now have an M&P full size in .40 as well. The ergos are way different and now the Glocks feel odd to me. It was never a problem before. I do think that the M&P has better ergonomics, especially the grip angle. Just my opinion though.

I owned an Hk USP in 9mm for a while and could never feel the love for it. It's seemingly top heavy to me, sort of like the old Ruger P series. The grip seems kind of short to me and I would have an occasional problem with feed jams in the mags. I had to drop the mag and give it a good hard rap to get the next round to the top - I think it's because they are all polymer with no steel liner.


YMMV

~ Jim

tacticalcity
05-02-2012, 2:00 PM
Based on your comments is it safe to assume you are relatively new shooter?

Yeah, I understand that the gun that fits the best in hand will most likely be the the best shooter for the individual. That part makes sense to me...

This is myth. The criteria that truly matter are things a new shooter will not understand. He doesn't know what trigger reset is much less how to exploit it, or even how to grip and hold the gun properly. So since he knows next to nothing about shooting...how else is he supposed to judge a gun? He doesn't know what features translate to more speed and accuracy. So he tells himself, "feels good" and buys the one that has the most appealing aesthetics.

Yes, you need to be able to hold it securely, and work the controls, and pull the trigger. That is about as much as it needs to "feel good". It's a pair of slippers. In real life it will be in your hand just long enough to "stop" the bad guy. If you have an action or other features that make accomplishing that goal more difficult than it needs to be, then you won't give a squat if it fits like a glove.

Example: A lot of people will complain that they had to adjust their grip to reach the magazine release on a gun. Guess what? That is how it is supposed to work. If you could reach the magazine release without effort you would be accidentally dropping magazines left and right...including during gun fights when your fine motor skills and sense of feeling in your fingers go to crap. Without first hand experience during realistic training, odds are you would never know that.

I guess I'm just looking for personal experiences thru the calguns community to help weed out the week.

I would ask instructors from some of the big name schools what they recommend. They see thousands of students each week, and see every kind of gun go thru their course. So they know what works and what doesn't.

The XD40 felt realy good shooting, I'm kinda leaning towards the V10 version to help mitigate the "snap/recoil" of the the .40cal (altho, the .40s&m is quite manageable for me).

The "V" versions make lousy self defense guns. At night, they cause night blindness. All that flash goes straight up, right where you are looking with as much focus as you can muster. Last thing you want during a firefight is to not be able to see after the first shot. For range shooting they will do just fine.

One thing I can't stand about Glocks is the Wierd (to me) grip angle and shape of the grip. Granted, its a great gun and I honor its reputation, I just don't like the way it fits in my hand...

I'm betting you read the grip angle complaint online BEFORE you held it. Then when you did hold it you noticed the angle was indeed different than the other guns you held that day, and since you already read complaints about it the difference was reinforced in your mind as a bad thing. You may not realize it, but the grip angle is almost identical to your 1911. If you remove your flat mainspring housing and relaced it with the curved one as designed by John Browning, they would be basically identical.

If you had years of muscle memory on another handgun, the difference may be a problem for you because you have trained yourself to point in with that particular guns angle. As a new shooter, however, that is not the case. Your muscle memory is setup for the Glock. Because it simulates the imaginary gun you made with your hand as a kid a hundred thousand times - index finger pointed straight out with thumb straight up.

The Glock has a lot of great design features an untrained shooter won't know how to recognize or look for, and that a trained shooter would. That's why a lot of pros and experts recommend them to the point they are blue in the face, even when they themselves are a 1911 guy or something along those lines.

All that said, if you don't like it you don't like it. Enough said.

The XD you like is very similar to a Glock. It is those similiarities that are why I like it as a first handgun. The only thing I don't exactly love about the XD is that it has a longer trigger rest. Not something you are likely to notice, and you don't have muscle memory engrained yet so it won't drive you nuts during training. You'll just learn to do it the XD way.

S&W M&P is probably my favorite so called "Glock Killer". It too has a longer trigger reset, and a less "positive" reset so it takes some effort to figure out where it is when trying to exploit it on follow up shots. Again, until you have some professional training that is not going to mean much to you. It has a lot of other neat features, including a very ergonomic design - something new shooters gravitate too. My favorite feature is the elongated beaver tail style lip to protect from slide bite. Plus my complaints about the trigger can be fixed with the APEX trigger kit. Still, I personally prefer the Glock.

There are a few other Striker Fired polymer pistols out there. I recommend a Striker Fired action on first gun. They are very easy by comparison to learn on.

Most importantly, regardless of what you get...take a Tactical Pistol I or Defensive Handgun Course just as soon as possible. Training is key to mastering your firearm. You will be amazed how much you learn, and how much fun you have. Compared to taking a course, plinking at the range feels like a chore...the courses are that much fun.

bombadillo
05-02-2012, 2:02 PM
A CZ-75 IN .40 would be a nice pick.

Red Devil
05-02-2012, 2:11 PM
Well...

You got a SA TRP Operater 1911, right...?

You obviously have a good eye for pistols, so get what ya like.


(and if it ain't a G23...? you've gone myopic. :D )

edidj13
05-02-2012, 2:32 PM
Word. But it took me forever to decide on my TRP! In going thru all this all over again looking for a poly...

-edi.

FX-05 Xiuhcoatl
05-02-2012, 3:21 PM
go with m&p40

edidj13
05-02-2012, 3:38 PM
Based on your comments is it safe to assume you are relatively new shooter?



This is myth. The criteria that truly matter are things a new shooter will not understand. He doesn't know what trigger reset is much less how to exploit it, or even how to grip and hold the gun properly. So since he knows next to nothing about shooting...how else is he supposed to judge a gun? He doesn't know what features translate to more speed and accuracy. So he tells himself, "feels good" and buys the one that has the most appealing aesthetics.

Yes, you need to be able to hold it securely, and work the controls, and pull the trigger. That is about as much as it needs to "feel good". It's a pair of slippers. In real life it will be in your hand just long enough to "stop" the bad guy. If you have an action or other features that make accomplishing that goal more difficult than it needs to be, then you won't give a squat if it fits like a glove.

Example: A lot of people will complain that they had to adjust their grip to reach the magazine release on a gun. Guess what? That is how it is supposed to work. If you could reach the magazine release without effort you would be accidentally dropping magazines left and right...including during gun fights when your fine motor skills and sense of feeling in your fingers go to crap. Without first hand experience during realistic training, odds are you would never know that.



I would ask instructors from some of the big name schools what they recommend. They see thousands of students each week, and see every kind of gun go thru their course. So they know what works and what doesn't.



The "V" versions make lousy self defense guns. At night, they cause night blindness. All that flash goes straight up, right where you are looking with as much focus as you can muster. Last thing you want during a firefight is to not be able to see after the first shot. For range shooting they will do just fine.



I'm betting you read the grip angle complaint online BEFORE you held it. Then when you did hold it you noticed the angle was indeed different than the other guns you held that day, and since you already read complaints about it the difference was reinforced in your mind as a bad thing. You may not realize it, but the grip angle is almost identical to your 1911. If you remove your flat mainspring housing and relaced it with the curved one as designed by John Browning, they would be basically identical.

If you had years of muscle memory on another handgun, the difference may be a problem for you because you have trained yourself to point in with that particular guns angle. As a new shooter, however, that is not the case. Your muscle memory is setup for the Glock. Because it simulates the imaginary gun you made with your hand as a kid a hundred thousand times - index finger pointed straight out with thumb straight up.

The Glock has a lot of great design features an untrained shooter won't know how to recognize or look for, and that a trained shooter would. That's why a lot of pros and experts recommend them to the point they are blue in the face, even when they themselves are a 1911 guy or something along those lines.

All that said, if you don't like it you don't like it. Enough said.

The XD you like is very similar to a Glock. It is those similiarities that are why I like it as a first handgun. The only thing I don't exactly love about the XD is that it has a longer trigger rest. Not something you are likely to notice, and you don't have muscle memory engrained yet so it won't drive you nuts during training. You'll just learn to do it the XD way.

S&W M&P is probably my favorite so called "Glock Killer". It too has a longer trigger reset, and a less "positive" reset so it takes some effort to figure out where it is when trying to exploit it on follow up shots. Again, until you have some professional training that is not going to mean much to you. It has a lot of other neat features, including a very ergonomic design - something new shooters gravitate too. My favorite feature is the elongated beaver tail style lip to protect from slide bite. Plus my complaints about the trigger can be fixed with the APEX trigger kit. Still, I personally prefer the Glock.

There are a few other Striker Fired polymer pistols out there. I recommend a Striker Fired action on first gun. They are very easy by comparison to learn on.

Most importantly, regardless of what you get...take a Tactical Pistol I or Defensive Handgun Course just as soon as possible. Training is key to mastering your firearm. You will be amazed how much you learn, and how much fun you have. Compared to taking a course, plinking at the range feels like a chore...the courses are that much fun.

Tacticalcity, I completely missed your reply... How could I have missed such a novel, right? Well, I guess you've got me all figured out. Thanks for your input...

-edi.

redrex
05-02-2012, 3:41 PM
It does look pretty slick and it definitely feels good in my hand! It might be a lil top heavy/bulky for me but I'm sure if I decided to go with the PX4 Storm, I'm sure I could look past its minor "negatives". It's definitely a contender!

-edi.

Not that this is a big issue but more of a heads up. Beretta has a deal now where you get a free holster with purchase of a PX4 storm.

:)

Red Devil
05-02-2012, 7:41 PM
Word. But it took me forever to decide on my TRP! In going thru all this all over again looking for a poly...

-edi.

Understood and Duly Noted.

I'm goin' the other direction. Have had the G23 for a long time and have always wanted a full-sized 1911.

Vacillating b/w the PX9109LP Loaded Full Size Parkerized w/ a delta on the guide rod to one-piece GI... and the PX9105MLP Loaded Full-Size MC Operator.

Then my brother brings home a Smith & Wesson Model 625 JM .45 ACP Revolver w/ a 4" Bbl...

...I feel your pain. :D

bombadillo
05-02-2012, 7:55 PM
I tend to disagree with TacticalCity on the grip of the Glock.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSiobwUcjUwuBuhzsLYpMN5fniR1cmcQ bQmD2HRLnQaDkNMKLWg_0bVIsDJ_Q

Look at the two and see the major differences. With a glock, I feel as though I have to crank my wrists forward by a good inch with a 5" model of glock. I have shot subcompacts to the 6" long slide and have yet to find a glock that I actually LIKE to shoot. I'm not biased as I owned XD, Colt, Kahr, Ruger, and others and have shot pretty much all the rest. I can say that for ME, CZ fits my hand like a glove, the Ruger P345R fits me as well. I also don't seem to agree with the Sig 226 and 220 and I really tried to like them because I could get either one for a killer deal. Most any single stack seems to work for the vast majority of people but the Glock just doesn't agree with me whatsoever. I can comfortably say I've put over a thousand rounds down range from various glock models and in different calibers from factory out of the box to heavily modded and NONE of them worked very well for me. My XD9SC would shoot better than a G34 at 45' all day. A lot of it is just comfort level and no matter how much you train, if you hate to shoot something, at the end of the day you're going to hate something you shoot OK at best.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a315/coldnerves/17769.jpg

Even just an XD vs Glock grip angle shows HUGE differences.

Either way, Look at Glock, Springfield XD, Smith M&P, CZ-75, (Baby Eagle if you can get lucky enough to find one used) Kahr, and even Ruger SR-40

Also, are you dead set on .40 or are you open to 9mm or .45acp?

Red Devil
05-02-2012, 8:23 PM
Well...

It may just be me, or a coupla decades of swingin' a hammer and playin' handball on my medium-sized hands...

...but the G23 (w' a Hogue Handall Full Size Grip Sleeve) fits my hand like a custom rig.

Its natural point is scary good. I can shoot paper plates in the dark.


Like I said, it might just be me, ...but I think Uncle Gaston got it just right.

pyromensch
05-02-2012, 8:30 PM
i have only owned, steel guns....dismissed polymer types, until i held the m&p, now i have 2 m&p 45's one is a "c" model, feeling is nice, but the proof was in the shooting, and i was/am not disappointed.

edidj13
05-02-2012, 8:52 PM
I tend to disagree with TacticalCity on the grip of the Glock.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSiobwUcjUwuBuhzsLYpMN5fniR1cmcQ bQmD2HRLnQaDkNMKLWg_0bVIsDJ_Q

Look at the two and see the major differences. With a glock, I feel as though I have to crank my wrists forward by a good inch with a 5" model of glock. I have shot subcompacts to the 6" long slide and have yet to find a glock that I actually LIKE to shoot. I'm not biased as I owned XD, Colt, Kahr, Ruger, and others and have shot pretty much all the rest. I can say that for ME, CZ fits my hand like a glove, the Ruger P345R fits me as well. I also don't seem to agree with the Sig 226 and 220 and I really tried to like them because I could get either one for a killer deal. Most any single stack seems to work for the vast majority of people but the Glock just doesn't agree with me whatsoever. I can comfortably say I've put over a thousand rounds down range from various glock models and in different calibers from factory out of the box to heavily modded and NONE of them worked very well for me. My XD9SC would shoot better than a G34 at 45' all day. A lot of it is just comfort level and no matter how much you train, if you hate to shoot something, at the end of the day you're going to hate something you shoot OK at best.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a315/coldnerves/17769.jpg

Even just an XD vs Glock grip angle shows HUGE differences.

Either way, Look at Glock, Springfield XD, Smith M&P, CZ-75, (Baby Eagle if you can get lucky enough to find one used) Kahr, and even Ruger SR-40

Also, are you dead set on .40 or are you open to 9mm or .45acp?

Great, response!
Yeah... I see a difference but I've felt the differences even more so. My father in law has a Glock22 and my brother in law has just about every other varient of Glocks as well. I get to shoot them any time I want and this is why I don't want one. they just don't fit right in my hand, its a very awkward feeling for me and I just can't get use to it.

I'm pretty much set on going with the .40 s&w caliber for this next purchase. For now I'll stay with my 1911 in the 45 acp catagory and eventually I'll be in the market again for a 9mm. That pistol will be more for my wife...

-edi.

GunHo
05-03-2012, 6:12 AM
Im slowly starting to consider a poly gun and have been widow shopping. But I would have to agree with most that the glock feels the worst of all poly guns. Even folks with big hands say the same thing. HK is my favorite poly but the price is a bit steep for a poly. The MP and FN are the two posibilities in the $500 range.

Eddie916
05-03-2012, 6:24 AM
I'm not a fan of the MnP personally... The trigger bugs me... something about the hinge just just annoying and causes me to jerk the trigger. That is a personal issue I have with the weapon... I love the HK USP.... The recoil reduction system works very well and follow up shots are easier. That being said the glock feels good enough for me and with the cheap price tag you can go to glock store and get some other parts to make it even better

shayski
05-03-2012, 6:35 AM
the xd's have a slimmer frame than most polymer guns. so if you have small hands then go with xd. I prefer glock my self. i do like the xd guns just costs to much to trick them out. i know the m&p are nice guns i dont own one so i really dont have great input on that one. if your looking for longevity and a work horse go with glock. if you shoot uspsa G35 is for you. out of the box competition ready. all i did to mine was polish the trigger and i got it down to 4lbs. i would strongly suggest you get into some ranges that rent those guns and try them all

raymartrading
05-03-2012, 9:39 AM
I was looking at a Sig P6, but after figuring the costs, I am also looking at a polymer pistol. The Walther PPQ looks really nice--even with the extra expense/hassle of going the SSE route. Does anyone know if any ranges in San Diego/OC has one to rent? I would like to try before I buy.

ElvenSoul
05-03-2012, 9:41 AM
Can get a CX4 to go with that PX4!

bombadillo
05-03-2012, 9:45 AM
I'll stick to my guns on this and say to check out the CZ variants out there. I think you'll have great luck with one of those with the fantastic aftermarket, quality built guns, rails and all kinds of configurations. Honestly I'm drawn to the CZ75 in the steel form but I really prefer steel in just about everything anymore. My 2 plastic guns left at this point are my Ruger P345 and Kahr CW9 and both will be carry guns. One winter and one summer.

Sniper3142
05-03-2012, 10:52 AM
Well I've also got a SA TRP Operator 1911 (full length rail) and love shooting it.

I've shot many polymer pistols and each has good points and bad ones. As others say, try them all and buy what works best for you. I've got an SA XD pistol in 45acp and it feels great to shoot (but could be more accurate). I've shot many other polymer pistols including the M&P, Glock, and USP series. My current favorite is the HK USP. I've got fullsize and compact models, both in 45acp. I love my compact running 10 round extended mags (since I've got pretty big hands).

edidj13
05-03-2012, 3:01 PM
Ok, so... the Wife and I went to our local shooting range to try out the Hk USP .40 S&W and she wanted to try the CZ75B 9mm. we shot 50 rounds of each. My first impressions of the USP is, eh... its ok. It didnt feel as bulky at i thought it would, so that was good. but i'm not sure if i like the feel of the grip. the grip angle was great, a lot better than the Glock but i was more impressed with the XD's grip over the Hk USP. out of the 50 rounds i shot i had 3 FTF's. i should excuse the FTF's because it was a rental but i really hate any kind of malfunction, not to say there's such a thing as a perfect pistol. the sight picture was good and easy to pick up and the gun it's self seemed very accurate. the USP didn't feel as heavy as i expected either. i didnt like the plastic Mags but i'm sure there's better Mags than the factory ones. Recoil i thought was more manageable than the XD. and, i liked the controls and functionality of the USP, very similar to the 1911 platform. Overall, i thought the Hk USP .40 was a great Poly gun to shoot! I just think i like the XD40 a little bit more.

the CZ75B 9mm reminded me of why i got a full metal gun before a Poly. it was a joy to shoot! it too had a couple FTF's but being a range rental i can look past that. The wife did great with the CZ, better than me shooting the USP in fact.

My next Poly i would like to try out is the Smith & Wesson M&P40. and, i've already got a good feeling i'm really enjoy shooting this one...

orangeusa
05-03-2012, 3:21 PM
All 3 are great guns.

I had one more idea - P95 (9mm) or P944 (?) (.40 cal) Rugers. They are so inexensive, you throw them away when you're done. Just kidding, but they are solid, uber reliable, and like I said, inexpensive... And Ruger has a lifetime warantee (through Davidson's) and some of the best customer service in the business.

I just threw the PX4 and Rugers at you since they are a handful of the non-strikers out there....

YOU HAVE A GOOD PROBLEM HERE!

Are you still SURE you want .40 (vs 9mm?). I don't want to bring up caliber wars (I have 9mm, .40, .45, .45LC, 22LR, .32 S&W, so don't ask me), but just seriously think how many times you plan on going to the range/number of rounds a year and check out the prices.... 9mm is still quite attractive $$$...... (putting on asbestos suit)....

The other good news, is you can do like the rest of us, buy something off CALGUNS, use it for 6 months and sell it if you don't like it.. haha

.

orangeusa
05-03-2012, 3:23 PM
Where, where???? Unobtainium!! :)

Can get a CX4 to go with that PX4!

jpham96
05-03-2012, 3:57 PM
I have a XD40 and I love it. 1500rds with zero problems. But before I bought my XD I was also debating between the XD & M&P. I went with the XD because it was cheaper and at the time I was looking to buy the M&P was really hard to find and was sold out everywhere. I still plan to get an M&P in 9mm down the line.
You can't go wrong with either gun.

1911Luvr
05-03-2012, 4:21 PM
I'm betting you read the grip angle complaint online BEFORE you held it. Then when you did hold it you noticed the angle was indeed different than the other guns you held that day, and since you already read complaints about it the difference was reinforced in your mind as a bad thing. You may not realize it, but the grip angle is almost identical to your 1911. If you remove your flat mainspring housing and relaced it with the curved one as designed by John Browning, they would be basically identical.

If you had years of muscle memory on another handgun, the difference may be a problem for you because you have trained yourself to point in with that particular guns angle. As a new shooter, however, that is not the case. Your muscle memory is setup for the Glock. Because it simulates the imaginary gun you made with your hand as a kid a hundred thousand times - index finger pointed straight out with thumb straight up. [/B]

Your statement may be true for you and perhaps some others, but it should not be a blanket statement as I found Glocks to be hit or miss with pointing naturally. Glocks do not point naturally at the target for me the way a 1911 does, and I've found that to be the case with most new shooters I've taken to the range. In fact, one of my friends bought a Glock 22 based on feedback he heard from cop friends, etc. He was basically a new shooter and even after several thousand rounds with his new pistol he was not accurate. I put a 1911 in his hands and he shot the best groupings he's ever fired. I've had several experiences like this with men and women newbies, and the 1911 always shot best for them. I also realize this will be different for different people, but this is my experience.

tacticalcity
05-03-2012, 5:16 PM
I tend to disagree with TacticalCity on the grip of the Glock.

You miss understood.

Look at a picture of the 1911 with the original Curved mainspring housing and not the flat mainspring housing side by side with the Glock. Then you will get it. John Browing's designed grip angle is virtually identical to that of Glock's design. That is where he got the idea from. The fact that your 1911 company diverged from Browing's design is not Glock's fault.

tacticalcity
05-03-2012, 5:22 PM
Your statement may be true for you and perhaps some others, but it should not be a blanket statement as I found Glocks to be hit or miss with pointing naturally. Glocks do not point naturally at the target for me the way a 1911 does, and I've found that to be the case with most new shooters I've taken to the range. In fact, one of my friends bought a Glock 22 based on feedback he heard from cop friends, etc. He was basically a new shooter and even after several thousand rounds with his new pistol he was not accurate. I put a 1911 in his hands and he shot the best groupings he's ever fired. I've had several experiences like this with men and women newbies, and the 1911 always shot best for them. I also realize this will be different for different people, but this is my experience.

Physics and statistics don't change because you have an opinion. The fact that are using the 1911 of all guns as your example shows you didn't actually read my post. Your buddies difficulty with accuracy more than likely has more to do with the differences in the triggers than anything else. The 1911 trigger is like butter, light and has little travel. Anybody will be "more accurate". But accuracy is small part of the equation, and has next to nothing to do with grip angle or how a weapon points. Speed on the other hand, is effected.

bombadillo
05-03-2012, 8:07 PM
You miss understood.

Look at a picture of the 1911 with the original Curved mainspring housing and not the flat mainspring housing side by side with the Glock. Then you will get it. John Browing's designed grip angle is virtually identical to that of Glock's design. That is where he got the idea from. The fact that your 1911 company diverged from Browing's design is not Glock's fault.

Here ya go:

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8129/glock173.jpg
G17 110* grip angle

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/5551/colt.jpg
1911 WITH rounded MSH and still has the same 103* angle. Changing the MSH may change the feel a bit but still doesn't change the angle. MOST (not all) people tend to point the 1911, M&P, and XD a bit better because it has an angle a bit more vertical.

If it were one person or even a few people who just didn't like/couldn't shoot glocks because they felt the grip was wrong for them, it would be one thing. But...... There are thousands out there who hate glock, or 1911 for that matter because they like their hand in a certain position. I have a difficult time with the glock because its tilted up like I said before if I hold it in a comfortable position and feel as though I have to twist my wrist forward to shoot it right. The angles are different no matter how you cut it and obviously you are a glock guy and that's fine, but not all of us can shoot them well.

A 7* difference is over 2.5 feet at 25 feet roughly and if you're not comfortable with that, its just the facts. I'm not adding anything here.

Aspec5vz
05-03-2012, 9:34 PM
Get a Walther P99, you won't regret it! It's easily my favorite pistol of all the pistols I own.

cal3gunner
05-03-2012, 10:05 PM
,,,

hcbr
05-03-2012, 10:22 PM
whichever you feel most comfortable shooting, the xd40 is great as well as the ruger. imho if you ask me directly, glock haha or FN :D

orangeusa
05-03-2012, 10:31 PM
So John Browning stole Gaston Glocks' grip design ? :leaving: