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View Full Version : Bullet Button vs. Unloaded Open Carry


BobB35
05-01-2012, 8:20 AM
So with the latest hit piece out of SF on the Bullet button, I was thinking.

Why is the bullet button "Safe" and UOC was legislated out of existence?

This is the problem with picking what rights to support just because of political appearances. First they came for the LOC, then they came for the Full autos, then they came for the Semi-auto, then they came for UOC, and now when they come for the BB there is nobody left to fight them......

So in my mind. (I don't agree with this, but believe this is what John Q public thinks)

Both are loophole in the eyes of the public.
Both were thought by most people to already be illegal.
Both are "Scary" in the eyes of the general public.
Both require LEOs to be exposed to "Officer Safety" risks.
Legislators are more than willing to step on your rights to make people feel better.

I think if this gets pick up by one of the Anti gun Legislators, it will get traction with the children under the dome and the days of the BB will be numbered. LEO orgs will be more than happy to come out in support of BB laws...they make the LEOs job just that much more difficult.

So someone please school me on where I am wrong here. I just first caution you, think of this from the perspective of a gun-hating soccer mom. Not the hard core gun advocate on CGF, and then answer what is possible in the PRK.

SilverTauron
05-01-2012, 8:36 AM
Four words:"All bets are off"

Predicting the next piece of statist legislation is like predicting an earthquake.The small tremors of liberal outrage could be just minor shakes,or the harbinger of something more sinister in the works.

Considering that San Fransisco passed Proposition H in 2005,I would assume anythings possible.

bwiese
05-01-2012, 1:00 PM
Because...

1. Many UOC folks were nonanalytical types driven by emotion without
thinking about political pushback. There was little law or regulation to
bound things in.

2. OLL stuff started after two suites of AW laws had passed, along
with a set of regulations and two major court decisions. Any pushback
would have lead to a ban on all semiauto rifles [politically impossible,
then and now legally impossible post-Heller] and any changes would
have significant conflict with existing laws, regulations and agency
opinions. There was far more thought about OLLs at the start of that
campaign then there ever was with UOC.

Librarian
05-01-2012, 1:02 PM
So with the latest hit piece out of SF on the Bullet button, I was thinking.

Why is the bullet button "Safe" and UOC was legislated out of existence?



Because UOC was actually a loophole - a set of behaviors not addressed in the law - that could be regulated once someone thought of it, while a 'detachable magazine' is defined in California Code of Regulations, Title 11, section 5469. A 'magazine locking device' of any description requires the use of a tool, thus making the rifle no longer able to accept a 'detachable magazine', by definition.

Re-defining 'detachable' would create a new class of 'assault weapons'; creating a new class of 'assault weapons' by the AG is forbidden by PC 30520 after Jan 1, 2007 - the legislature wanted to cut off the possibility of new registration periods.

Uxi
05-01-2012, 1:17 PM
I would probably be stoked for a new registration period so I could get rid of my bullet buttons, but what's to stop them from new legislation that bans without a reg period? I'm expecting the next revision of the Ca AWB to be ANY evil feature and/or a requirement for top loading or mandating the type of "tool" such a hex or screwdriver. Possibly a complete ban on possession of "high caps" (not just the nuisance business), including rebuild kits.

As I was fiddling with my bullet button at the last trip to the range, I was enjoying my Glock on the pistol range, as well and didn't think it particularly far fetched for "assault pistols" to be the next wave. They'd leave revolvers alone... at least, at first...

Burbur
05-01-2012, 1:29 PM
see: Apples v. Oranges et al

My biggest fear would be the criminalization of our guns, with no grandfather clause. We are one poorly written law away from surrender or GTFO (of CA)

stix213
05-01-2012, 1:30 PM
UOC was banned as a reaction to the behavior of those partaking in it.

OLL people have largely been well behaved and responsible in contrast. None of the large scale efforts to purposely cause law enforcement encounters to show off to their youtube buddies, or scare soccer moms just trying to buy coffee as was a staple of the UOC groups.

Trying to cause law enforcement incidents is the fastest way to get the legislature's attention in a negative way. Seemed pretty obvious at the time, but some of us had to learn the hard way.

CBruce
05-01-2012, 1:45 PM
So with the latest hit piece out of SF on the Bullet button, I was thinking.

Why is the bullet button "Safe" and UOC was legislated out of existence?

This is the problem with picking what rights to support just because of political appearances. First they came for the LOC, then they came for the Full autos, then they came for the Semi-auto, then they came for UOC, and now when they come for the BB there is nobody left to fight them......

So in my mind. (I don't agree with this, but believe this is what John Q public thinks)

Both are loophole in the eyes of the public.
Both were thought by most people to already be illegal.
Both are "Scary" in the eyes of the general public.
Both require LEOs to be exposed to "Officer Safety" risks.
Legislators are more than willing to step on your rights to make people feel better.

I think if this gets pick up by one of the Anti gun Legislators, it will get traction with the children under the dome and the days of the BB will be numbered. LEO orgs will be more than happy to come out in support of BB laws...they make the LEOs job just that much more difficult.

So someone please school me on where I am wrong here. I just first caution you, think of this from the perspective of a gun-hating soccer mom. Not the hard core gun advocate on CGF, and then answer what is possible in the PRK.

Want answers from the perspective of a ‘gun-hating’ soccer mom. Not a problem. Here goes:

What’s ‘open carry’? Oh, I remember seeing a nutjob like that at one of the political rallies a year or two ago. I thought he should be arrested because he might be there to assassinate the President or go postal and start shooting Democrats. Why do people need to carry guns around like they’re gunslingers in the old-west. It’s not loaded? Well so what? If you allow people to carry unloaded guns then they’ll just lie and load them anyway. You think crazy people wouldn't lie and follow the law? They could load them right before they need to shoot somebody. It’s not safe for people to carry any gun around. Anyone who isn’t a cop that wants to carry a gun around is probably some gun-loving wacko just looking to kill someone.

To be honest, I’m even nervous around police officers carrying guns. Who knows when a crazy person might grab ahold of that thing and start murdering everyone into the crowd. I wish cops would keep their guns in their car that way they could keep them locked up and we wouldn’t have to worry about bad guys stealing a cops gun and shooting people.

Guns are scary. They kill people. Bad guys use guns all the time to shoot innocent people, even in broad daylight. Kids use them them at schools to murder their classmates. Those guns that look like what you see criminals use in the movies or on TV (Uzis, M16s, AK47s, etc) are especially evil. You don’t use those to hunt, those guns are made for killing people and should be illegal for anyone except the military…who need them to kill bad guys in other countries. The only reason anyone would have an assault weapon is to murder a bunch of people. They should be arrested before they have the chance to go crazy and do that.

Bullet button? Never heard of it, what is that? What? Really? That’s a dirty loophole being exploited by gun nuts. They should arrest anyone using them because they must be breaking the law. Lawmakers need to keep working to stay one steap ahead. They need to outlaw bullet-buttons and arrest anyone who uses them. We have to keep these assault weapons out of the hands of criminals.

A lot of you don't know what it's like to grow up with very little exposure to firearms and only see them in movies and news reports. If it's not clearly a gun for hunting, which is bad enough, then it's either for soldiers, cops, or criminals.