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View Full Version : "Black Panthers葉he true pioneers of the modern pro-gun movement." - discuss


oaklander
04-29-2012, 6:50 PM
"The Ku Klux Klan, Ronald Reagan, and, for most of its history, the NRA all worked to control guns. The Founding Fathers? They required gun ownership預nd regulated it. And no group has more fiercely advocated the right to bear loaded weapons in public than the Black Panthers葉he true pioneers of the modern pro-gun movement. In the battle over gun rights in America, both sides have distorted history and the law, and there痴 no resolution in sight."

- that is the intro - the article is here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-of-guns/8608/

I need to remind people that Professor Winkler recently spoke for CGF, and that I have met him (he also spoke for my law school alma mater). And he and I will likely be sitting on the same ABA Sub-committee on the issue.

Please discuss, class.

:43:

thetortfeasor
04-29-2012, 7:11 PM
Adam Winkler is a stand-up dude. I've also met him and received positive feedback from him about the Subcommittee.

SilverTauron
04-29-2012, 7:21 PM
While I am not one to disagree with accurate historical introspection,we must focus on the battle ahead and not the one behind us.

There are a lot of people in America who believe anyone who owns a firearm is a crazy nutjob. Regardless of who began the movement, all of us who keep and bear arms are part of the fight to change the minds of the masses from conditioned sheeple to a commissar's nightmare. Rest assured, Obama won't be the last sleaze job in the White House by a long shot. When the next Zero steps up to the plate, its up to us to ensure the people know what the score is on civil rights.

Demonicspire
04-29-2012, 7:26 PM
The black panthers were certainly passionate about protecting their community with their second ammendment rights, and they did do some good work. Unfortunately they reacted poorly to some legislation changes and provided even further impetus to make open carry illegal in California. Still I can't blame them. Part of the reason the cops were so annoyed by the Panthers is they realized they couldn't just push people around. There is nothing a mini-dictator hates worse then to be reminded of his own insignificance.

diggersdarling
04-29-2012, 7:30 PM
While I am not one to disagree with accurate historical introspection,we must focus on the battle ahead and not the one behind us.

There are a lot of people in America who believe anyone who owns a firearm is a crazy nutjob. Regardless of who began the movement, all of us who keep and bear arms are part of the fight to change the minds of the masses from conditioned sheeple to a commissar's nightmare. Rest assured, Obama won't be the last sleaze job in the White House by a long shot. When the next Zero steps up to the plate, its up to us to ensure the people know what the score is on civil rights.


WRONG.


Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana

Stonewalker
04-29-2012, 8:10 PM
I'm gona go ahead and agree with diggersdarling, a lot. Gun control is one of the reasons the blacks have it so badly in America today, it was literally used to oppress them (among MANY other methods) and now today the anti-rights people are telling blacks (the very victims of their schemes less than 50 years ago!!) that gun control is there for their own protection. This stuff matters. History matters! The narrative on gun control needs to change. The anti-rights people have been controlling it all along and we everything is lining up for US to be effective in changing it. It should actually be easy because all we have to do is speak the truth. Literally just say things that happened in the past.

Seriously, visualize this -
147633



HOW DO PEOPLE NOT SEE THIS???

RobGR
04-29-2012, 8:20 PM
Damn, interesting perspective and comments.

History has everything to do with the future. Absolutely.

Bobby Hated
04-29-2012, 8:44 PM
has winkler presented any of his book in an academic forum? i'm on a couple UCLA listserves and i dont remember ever getting an email about it.

i wonder if the bunche center (black studies) would host him.

oaklander
04-29-2012, 9:33 PM
has winkler presented any of his book in an academic forum? i'm on a couple UCLA listserves and i dont remember ever getting an email about it.

i wonder if the bunche center (black studies) would host him.

The Constitutional Law Club (I forget their real name, but rin by nice young woman) at Hastings College of the Law, hosted him. I do not know about now, but I THINK they are somewhere in or around the Top 20 law schools in the country. It is the same school that asked me and Gene to speak on gun rights as civil rights. They are fairly progressive. And that is right, we need to reclaim that word.

ETA: that is the law school that let me in! eeeek! ;-)

oaklander
04-29-2012, 9:34 PM
And Stonewalker rocks!

:D

radioman
04-29-2012, 9:57 PM
This will not go away any time soon, the fat lazy fool will call 911, live in fear and cry for more laws. our lawmakers love this fat fool,they can say, you see they don't need that right, they need us to make more laws to keep them safe.

oaklander
04-29-2012, 10:15 PM
Adam Winkler is a stand-up dude. I've also met him and received positive feedback from him about the Subcommittee.

Excellent, and yes - I will ping you about that thing. I just talked at length with someone who has confirmed some things that have previosly been speculated on.

:D

I love being oblique! It is much better than being rotund.

oaklander
04-29-2012, 10:16 PM
This will not go away any time soon, the fat lazy fool will call 911, live in fear and cry for more laws. our lawmakers love this fat fool,they can say, you see they don't need that right, they need us to make more laws to keep them safe.

Word.

oaklander
04-29-2012, 10:21 PM
Also, setting aside whether or not people agree with the Panthers (and I actually agree with them on many things) - the overarching issue is how a government quashes a civil right to silence dissent. And this is the real issue, and this is why we are now being seen as not only a rights movement, but also literally a "progressive" movement.

And about fricken time!!!

I am tired of seeing Priuses that have every fricken bumptersitcker about saving tibet, and whales, and crap like that. I would love it if the left realized that they actualy AGREE with the right on at least ONE DAMN ISSUE!

ROFL

And many, if not most of them do - and I am telling you all that as someone who hangs out in Berkeley sometimes. And I registered as "decline to give a crap," because both sides suck, these days.

repubconserv
04-29-2012, 10:39 PM
WRONG.


Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana

Silver Tauron never said anything about not remembering the past. Yes we must remember it so we never make the same mistake twice. but we also should not focus on the past.

I liken it to driving a car. It is very good to use the rear view mirror, you should check it often to watch for danger. You should not, however, focus on it. If you watch your rearview all the time, what is going to happen in front of your car? probably nothing good.

Again, we must remember the past, and use the lessons as a guideline. More importantly though, we need to keep our eyes on the road ahead to watch for obstacles.

Merc1138
04-29-2012, 10:52 PM
WRONG.


Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana

WRONG.

Shifting focus away from the past is not the same as forgetting it.

oaklander
04-30-2012, 8:24 AM
This "arguing about the past" track is slightly wrong.

It still happens. This stuff.

I am saying that as someone who gets the phone calls from people who have been unjustly arrested. And some of these people did nothing more than "be" the wrong color, in the wrong place.

There was no "full stop" when the issue suddenly became "not" about race. It still is. What is talked about still happens, but the politics got flipped around, and now it is the so-called progressives who are doing the bidding. Why do you think that when anti-gunners run an anti-gun bill up the flagpole, it is always urban LE (BRASS) that PUBLICALLY supports it? Some people simply do not like the idea of blacks with guns.

People on the left kind of suck up to people on the right, out of fear. . .

So they "hide" their fear under the so-called "public safety" issue. I know people who do this, and they are deathly afraid of stepping foot in most parts of East Oakland. Yet, it is simply not that violent here, UNLESS YOU ARE PART OF A "DISPUTE."

Let me explain it another way:

There are people, right now - who set laws that harm the 300,000 people or so who live in the "flat parts" of Oakland. Many of these people (1) have never once set foot here, (2) do not know people here, (3) will never come here except to drive to the airport, (4) lock their doors when their cars even get near here.

THIS IS SO WRONG!!!!!!!!!!

There is a perception that ever single person here in a violent thug - and that is a MEDIA CREATION, folks. It is simply a lie.

There IS violence, but it is usually between people who have some issues to sort out. The problem is that now they are acidently shooting kids. And that makes everyone mad, including other thugs. Do you folks know that actual "gang" shootings are actually DOWN RIGHT NOW IN OAKLAND?

NO - of course you don't!

You don't know this because you do not read about it. The spike this year is ALL due to cases where a family member or classmate twisted off. NOT to "gang" crime - the very type of crime that the laws are supposed to prevent.

ack! this drives me bonkers having to explain this. . .

And the other problem is that MOST blacks are not criminals. Just like most whites, reds, greens, etc. are not criminals. So, if someone who is an upstanding citizen, like my friends and neighbors, wants a gun - it is hard to get, and if that person is caught with it - EVEN DOING NOTHING ILLEGAL, it will get taken, and usually, there will be charges filed.

I have to keep telling people that I know these things because I am one of the people involved in the issue. Please, when I say something about this -please listen. I have nothing to gain by not speaking truth. In fact, Oakland stuff is so hard core that the only reason I can do most things is because I have a good reputation here.

I personally have nothing to gain. People who have been to my house know how poor I am, and it is because I spend most of my time doing this stuff. I do not get paid, and I have refused to make money from any of this. The trusts are nothing, and I have literally turned down chances to make real money on this issue. The reason is that I want to keep my motives pure. In Oakland, my motives are to help make us safer and more peaceful. So that I do not have to worry as much about my friends and family.

I swear that is all I want. Yet, so many people in our opposition want to ride the gun control issue to fame and profit. They are simply not good people, and that is the most basic way to put it.

Mulay El Raisuli
04-30-2012, 8:48 AM
WRONG.


Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana


Thanks for posting the full quote. I've never actually seen it anywhere else.


The Raisuli

vantec08
04-30-2012, 8:49 AM
Interesting how the hoods from whence the panthers come have done a 180 on guns. They never seemed to be anti, until they produced a generation of savage animals, then "guns" were the "problem."

oaklander
04-30-2012, 9:02 AM
Interesting how the hoods from whence the panthers come have done a 180 on guns. They never seemed to be anti, until they produced a generation of savage animals, then "guns" were the "problem."

The problem in the cities is very much families, and that is how we are working. The churches have the best model, and I am saying that as someone who is a proud member of a local church.

The violence issue will not be solved by laws, it will be solved by (1) strong families, (2) opportunity, and (3) literally, love.

. . . and i say the above as someone who knows how laws work. . .

The War Wagon
04-30-2012, 9:17 AM
MUCH like Mohammedans on 9/11/01, were true pioneers of 'urban renewal' in NYC and Washington, D.C.... :rolleyes:

FAIL!

jwkincal
04-30-2012, 9:44 AM
The problem in the cities is very much families, and that is how we are working. The churches have the best model, and I am saying that as someone who is a proud member of a local church.

The violence issue will not be solved by laws, it will be solved by (1) strong families, (2) opportunity, and (3) literally, love.

. . . and i say the above as someone who knows how laws work. . .

(1) and (3) are the same thing. And they guarantee that (2) will follow.

It should be like the old real-estate expression: the three most important things in any community are: Strong families, strong families, and strong families.

That "village" crap that our current SoS pitches is offensive and should be taken as such by the populations at whom it is directed.

Sutcliffe
04-30-2012, 9:46 AM
I find many of their tactics and justifications towards violence distasteful. They do have the right to organize and defend themselves like everybody else. The Oakland PD still has not reformed and are still under threat of surrendering control to federal authoriities over many of their policies that haven't changed since the '60's.
It was their legitimate, peaceful march on Sacto that got us the whole CCW and unloaded open carry fiasco we now enjoy.
It really exposed the vile and racist policies and programs that Gun Control are really about.
Disarming your enemies.

vantec08
04-30-2012, 9:50 AM
The problem in the cities is very much families, and that is how we are working. The churches have the best model, and I am saying that as someone who is a proud member of a local church.

The violence issue will not be solved by laws, it will be solved by (1) strong families, (2) opportunity, and (3) literally, love.

. . . and i say the above as someone who knows how laws work. . .

Couldnt agree more. Unfortunately, we must wait until the present generation is gone, along with the legacy they are leaving.

radioman
04-30-2012, 10:00 AM
The Black Panthers did a lot of good, they fed poor school kids, they made it a little harder for the OPD to beat the hell out of black people. I still remember the fear just the name Black Panther instilled in white people. I was reading the barb back then and the call, just to see both sides. But I was just a kid what did I know, or so I was told. I was thinking of a protest that would be cool, the open carry of wooden guns.

NewGuy1911
04-30-2012, 10:13 AM
Hi oaklander,

Just finished reading Adam Winkler's book "GunFight". I highly recommend the book! I'm now reading "Ambush at Ruby Ridge" by Alan Bock.

Oaklander have you read "Negroes with Guns" by Robert Williams?

Can you recommend some books on the Black Panthers and Malcolm X (his later years, I believe his view point changed).

Also, interestingly you no longer accept PM's form me; This is all new to me and I am just trying to learn, would like your help.

DannyInSoCal
04-30-2012, 10:20 AM
If the "New Black Panthers" try that voter intimidation crap at my polling center -

They had better be carrying...

Desertdog702
04-30-2012, 10:36 AM
It seems nowadays that the black panthers are on board with the antis and the rest of the socialist movment. It is the culture that breeds the violence of the inner cities. Until that culture wakes up and changes there will always be violence and rampant drug use.

hvengel
04-30-2012, 10:40 AM
The Constitutional Law Club (I forget their real name, but rin by nice young woman) at Hastings College of the Law, hosted him. I do not know about now, but I THINK they are somewhere in or around the Top 20 law schools in the country. It is the same school that asked me and Gene to speak on gun rights as civil rights. They are fairly progressive. And that is right, we need to reclaim that word.

ETA: that is the law school that let me in! eeeek! ;-)

My brother turned down a full ride scholarship at Harvard (after finishing his undergrad program at Harvard) to attend Hastings in the mid 1970's. At the time he claimed it was the best law school in the country.

NYsteveZ
04-30-2012, 11:02 AM
I have to look at the very basics of an organization before I jump on a bandwagon. For the Panthers to be pro-gun rights, great. They may also like pizza, but because we have that in common, does not mean I will hold my fist up along side of them.
Can you be white and be part of the Black Panthers, or black and be in La Raza? These groups of activists have one theme behind their organizations, and unless I missed it, I have never seen these two mentioned in the media doing a demonstration for outsiders of their race, just as I didnt see the KKK marching for Trayvon Martin.

vantec08
04-30-2012, 11:27 AM
It seems nowadays that the black panthers are on board with the antis and the rest of the socialist movment. It is the culture that breeds the violence of the inner cities. Until that culture wakes up and changes there will always be violence and rampant drug use.


We have a winner. The folks in the inner cities KNOW who the troublemakers and bangers are. They know because its their sons, nephews, cousins, brothers, uncles, neighbors etc. etc. Its up to them to change their culture.

NYsteveZ
04-30-2012, 11:46 AM
After very little research, this is what I found on them. I can not, and will not support racists of any color, and even worse, socialist racists. They are no better than the nazis, and have more in common with them than what they would like to think. I understand organizations and people change over the years, but a tiger cannot change his stripes, like a panther cant change his color.
OP-You are mistaken. The true pioneers of the modern pro-gun movement can be found by name on the Constitution.





"We want to become masters of our own destiny...we want to build a black nation to benefit black people..."-LeRoi Jones Black Panthers convention NYC 1968

Hollywood celebrity Jane Fonda publicly supported Huey Newton and the Black Panthers during the early 1970s (THIS ALONE SPEAKS VOLUMES!)

The Ten Point Program-

The original "Ten Point Program" from October, 1966 was as follows [37][38]:

1. We want freedom. We want power to determine the destiny of our black Community.
We believe that black people will not be free until we are able to determine our destiny.
2. We want full employment for our people.
We believe that the federal government is responsible and obligated to give every man employment or a guaranteed income. We believe that if the white American businessmen will not give full employment, then the means of production should be taken from the businessmen and placed in the community so that the people of the community can organize and employ all of its people and give a high standard of living.
3. We want an end to the robbery by the white man of our black Community.
We believe that this racist government has robbed us and now we are demanding the overdue debt of forty acres and two mules. Forty acres and two mules was promised 100 years ago as restitution for slave labor and mass murder of black people. We will accept the payment as currency which will be distributed to our many communities. The Germans are now aiding the Jews in Israel for the genocide of the Jewish people. The Germans murdered six million Jews. The American racist has taken part in the slaughter of over 50 million black people; therefore, we feel that this is a modest demand that we make.
4. We want decent housing, fit for shelter of human beings.
We believe that if the white landlords will not give decent housing to our black community, then the housing and the land should be made into cooperatives so that our community, with government aid, can build and make decent housing for its people.
5. We want education for our people that exposes the true nature of this decadent American society. We want education that teaches us our true history and our role in the present-day society.
We believe in an educational system that will give to our people a knowledge of self. If a man does not have knowledge of himself and his position in society and the world, then he has little chance to relate to anything else.
6. We want all black men to be exempt from military service.
We believe that black people should not be forced to fight in the military service to defend a racist government that does not protect us. We will not fight and kill other people of color in the world who, like black people, are being victimized by the white racist government of America. We will protect ourselves from the force and violence of the racist police and the racist military, by whatever means necessary.
7. We want an immediate end to POLICE BRUTALITY and MURDER of black people.
We believe we can end police brutality in our black community by organizing black self-defense groups that are dedicated to defending our black community from racist police oppression and brutality. The Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States gives a right to bear arms. We therefore believe that all black people should arm themselves for self defense.
8. We want freedom for all black men held in federal, state, county and city prisons and jails.
We believe that all black people should be released from the many jails and prisons because they have not received a fair and impartial trial.
9. We want all black people when brought to trial to be tried in court by a jury of their peer group or people from their black communities, as defined by the Constitution of the United States.
We believe that the courts should follow the United States Constitution so that black people will receive fair trials. The 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution gives a man a right to be tried by his peer group. A peer is a person from a similar economic, social, religious, geographical, environmental, historical and racial background. To do this the court will be forced to select a jury from the black community from which the black defendant came. We have been, and are being tried by all-white juries that have no understanding of the "average reasoning man" of the black community.
10. We want land, bread, housing, education, clothing, justice and peace. And as our major political objective, a United Nations-supervised plebiscite to be held throughout the black colony in which only black colonial subjects will be allowed to participate for the purpose of determining the will of black people as to their national destiny.
When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume, among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly, all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariable the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

vantec08
04-30-2012, 12:01 PM
Interesting, steve.

1 -- Many define "freedom" as free of responsibility.

2 -- Dont we all.

3 -- Maybe he needs to be more concerned about black on black crime.

4 -- We tried coops, they were a humongous failure.

5 -- Be careful what you ask for, you may not be able to handle the whole story.

6 -- Everybody is now.

7 -- We also want an end to CITIZEN BRUTALITY on the police.

8 -- And you want it . . . when?

9 -- In other words, like the simpson jury. Ever try discussing serology and DNA with a carrot?

10 -- He forgot the free condoms.

Ripon83
04-30-2012, 12:13 PM
I'm not getting the point? Sorry I'm white, old and dense I guess. When I read the OP it struck me as NRA racist, black panthers good, and old white men like me some how bad. I was fortunate to be raised by great parents that taught me were all equal, and I still believe that today.

A few weeks ago I heard a black panther movement put out a wanted dead or alive poster for a man because ke shot a young black man who wasn't armed. Facts didn't matter, they still wanted him dead or alive. I consider that evil and wrong. I wish someone from the organization would denounce such, but I never read as much and have to conclude the organization may now be evil. Sad for hem.

lilro
04-30-2012, 12:18 PM
We have a winner. The folks in the inner cities KNOW who the troublemakers and bangers are. They know because its their sons, nephews, cousins, brothers, uncles, neighbors etc. etc. Its up to them to change their culture.

It's very difficult. Especially being the minority in a group of minorities. Changing the inner city culture is similar to turning California into a red state.

Stonewalker
04-30-2012, 12:26 PM
Steve and Vantec,

For the record I do not support the BPs. My point in talking about Bobby Seale in Oakland and the Mulford act is to bring context in to the discussion of modern gun control. That was an example of the California governmetn passing unconstitutional laws for the sole purpose of oppressing ALL blacks in Oakland, including the BPs. To be certain, the BPs have a dangerous authoritarian/commie worldview, but that's beside the point. At it's core, that situation was about a majority (whites in Oakland/California) using the force of government to both oppress and remove rights from a minority (blacks).

vantec08
04-30-2012, 12:29 PM
It's very difficult. Especially being the minority in a group of minorities. Changing the inner city culture is similar to turning California into a red state.



The hardest thing anyone will ever do is change themselves. Those who make such change arent presented medals on the steps of the capital, but they should be. The rest of the nation has done everything it can do FOR them - - now its up to them.

lilro
04-30-2012, 12:56 PM
The hardest thing anyone will ever do is change themselves. Those who make such change arent presented medals on the steps of the capital, but they should be. The rest of the nation has done everything it can do FOR them - - now its up to them.

I think what the nation has done FOR them is what has put them in the place they're in. When you go to a school full of knuckleheads who all promote illegal activity, and you get a lackluster education, and you get rewarded via welfare, section 8, etc., what motive is there to change? Lack of education makes it harder to get employed. A criminal record makes it harder to get employed. Not having home training/ettiquette makes it harder to get employed. A lot of impoverished people sadly don't want to go through all the work and would rather fill out a couple papers and get paid to sit on their *** and be quiet. And then those people have children. More money from the gov't, and another fresh mind to corrupt. It's a vicious cycle and the only way to fix it is to remove the crutch, fall over, and stand back up. But there's too many interested in keeping it the same. From the poor neighborhoods to the career politicians.

NYsteveZ
04-30-2012, 1:06 PM
Steve and Vantec,

For the record I do not support the BPs. My point in talking about Bobby Seale in Oakland and the Mulford act is to bring context in to the discussion of modern gun control. That was an example of the California governmetn passing unconstitutional laws for the sole purpose of oppressing ALL blacks in Oakland, including the BPs. To be certain, the BPs have a dangerous authoritarian/commie worldview, but that's beside the point. At it's core, that situation was about a majority (whites in Oakland/California) using the force of government to both oppress and remove rights from a minority (blacks).

I understand your view, but Im not so sure it was, or IS Commufornias intention to remove gun rights based on race. You can look at gun laws in certain counties and say the same thing. The laws, even unconstitutional cover all blacks, whites, Asian, or whoever else lives in those counties. The law just didnt "oppress" blacks, it oppressed ALL gun owners in that area. BPs once again pull the race card. Dont think for a second that they fight for your rights-unless you are black.

bussda
04-30-2012, 1:15 PM
After skimming the article, no, the Black Panthers were not a a pro gun civil rights organization. They only heightened the drama and led to more strict guns law. If you want to view a civil rights organization that used firearms in a positive light that did not result in additional gun laws, that would be the Deacons for Defense.

The present pro gun movement could best be traced to the "Cincinnati Revolt" that happened at the 1977 NRA convention.

And this is ignoring the emotional context. Antigun is an emotional response. Progun is a rational response. Emotion trumps reason almost every time. The Mulford Act was an emotional response to events, just like the 1968 Gun Control Act.


...

And the other problem is that MOST blacks are not criminals. Just like most whites, reds, greens, etc. are not criminals. So, if someone who is an upstanding citizen, like my friends and neighbors, wants a gun - it is hard to get, and if that person is caught with it - EVEN DOING NOTHING ILLEGAL, it will get taken, and usually, there will be charges filed.

...



I am selectively quoting you for a reason. If you go into the situation, you will find that the biggest fear is that if you carry a gun, and get stopped by the police, you will be arrested and go to jail. Emotional response to avoid this problem, ban guns. Yes, it totally ignores the real problem of trying to prevent being a victim of violence, but that is a rational response.

DTatum
04-30-2012, 1:45 PM
African American communities would be better off with a gun store on every corner, than a liquor store on every corner.

NYsteveZ
04-30-2012, 1:45 PM
The Black Panthers may have stood up for gun rights, the Nazis invented the Volkswagen, and the Soviets made great guns (see sig :D) but, overall I view them equally just as the Panthers want.
BTW-Kudos to everyone here discussing this subject with maturity. Whether for or against the BPs, I do not see the flaming that would occur on the CNN boards.

nicki
04-30-2012, 2:16 PM
The new Black Panthers and the old Black Panthers are not the same.

We can't just look at the gun issue, rather we have to look at everything and looking at everything means opening a Pandora's box of uncomfortable issues.

There was alot of fear in America of a race war in the 1960s, especially in the urban areas.
In the 60s and 70s many cities suffered white flight.

The civil rights act of 1964 wasn't greeted with open arms by states, local governments and the population as a whole.

There was just the Black Panthers, around 1967 the counter culture of sex, drugs and rock and roll was under way.

In 1967 most Americans still had faith in their government and we were at war.

The Black Panthers were labeled as communists subversives.

IMHO, we will have to address the Black Panther issues before we can go forward on any open carry issue.

Something we need to consider is interviewing people who were in Oakland during those times because alot of stuff won't show up in historical records.

Oaklander, many of the people who were in Oakland during the time of the Black Panthers are old, many have already died.

The bottom line is can we justify the actions of the Black Panthers not to us, but average folks.

In order to justify the actions of the Black Panthers, we are going to have to show law enforcement and other government officials in an extremely negative light.

To quell the Blacks, the government created the welfare state. The welfare state is a major factor for the breakdown of Black families.

Broken families produce broken people.

Unfortunately many of the black leaders promote the welfare state, the culture of dependency.

Malcolm X advocated economic self reliance, he advocated for Black owned businesses, yet do we see that happening in our urban areas?

The hard question is this. If a individual and/or group are having their rights violated by government officials under color of law and that individual/group has exhausted all peaceful methods to resolve differences, then do they have the natural right to take up arms to protect themselves from "rogue government officials"?

The America of today is not the America of the past, quite frankly for many Americans the America of the past was very horrible.

One TV show that I find eye opening is Cold Case, especially the episodes where they go way back into the past and you see how things have culturally changed.

Yes they highlight ugly things in American Culture in the past, but understanding the issues of the past will allow us to reach out today to work out problems in the present.

There are good people in the Black Community, we need to find them, sit down and see if we can work with them. If we can help them help their communities rebuild themselves, we build friendships.

We show them that gun rights ensure all their other rights, that power in the hands of the people rather than the state is the real solution for them securing their natural rights.

We may be different races, but we are all God's children and when Jesus was asked what was the greatest commandment, his reply was "love one another as I have loved you".

Oakland is going to require a tough love rebuilding from the neighborhoods up.

Yes there are gang problems and those will have to be dealt with. IMHO the gangs are a by product of failed government policies that have destroyed families and dreams.

Oak is putting alot of effort into the Oakland effort. Oakland is one of those 3 percent of counties that account for 70 percent of gun violence.

If Oakland can be turned around, it won't take long to turn around the rest of the SF bay area because we will have a working model on how to do it.

Because of term limits, if we grow our own people, we could in a period of 4 to 8 years have pro gun majorities in all the local governments in the SF bay area.

That in turn could get us back the legislature which would enable us to block new gun laws while we destroy old ones in the courts.

This is how we checkmate our opponents.

Nicki

vantec08
04-30-2012, 2:29 PM
The Black Panthers may have stood up for gun rights, the Nazis invented the Volkswagen, and the Soviets made great guns (see sig :D) but, overall I view them equally just as the Panthers want.
BTW-Kudos to everyone here discussing this subject with maturity. Whether for or against the BPs, I do not see the flaming that would occur on the CNN boards.

thanks for your posts steve.

Stonewalker
04-30-2012, 2:38 PM
That was awesome Nicki, and very closely lines up with my thoughts. It is not an intelligent thing to only scrutinize the BPs as "good" or "bad". You have to look at the context that forced good-willed and oppressed people to act. I don't have to say it, but the blacks in 1966 Oakland were not unacquainted with oppression by force of law.

Full Clip
04-30-2012, 2:39 PM
Ah, the Panthers of the 1960s... They really knew how to get a point across:

http://www.anarkismo.net/attachments/jun2009/black_liberation_struggle_12.jpg

That's right, white pigs...

lilro
04-30-2012, 3:00 PM
We show them that gun rights ensure all their other rights, that power in the hands of the people rather than the state is the real solution for them securing their natural rights.

This is one of the most difficult parts. Reason being, the people that really need to change for the better already have a criminal record and cannot legally own a gun. So they settle with the parking lot special that's $100. And then the ones that have clean records are anti-gun because of thugs and gangbangers and are subject to the BS spouted by MSM.

VCEnterprises
04-30-2012, 5:17 PM
Reading the article, the BP was largely the cause of modern day gun control, not of modern day gun rights.

No doubt through much of American history, gun control was about keeping guns out of the hands of blacks. Not good!

The behavior of MLK did much more good for the rights of blacks than did the BPs. Much like how the calm cool leadership the NRA is bringing to the gun rights of all Americans. I remember in the 90s that we were in deep trouble. The NRA turned it around.

The provocative acts of the BPs caused a backlash that we all still live with today. Imagine if all us NRA members armed ourselves and took to the streets in a similarly provocative way as the BPs did. The same act would likely lead to more gun control that would last 100 years.

One more thing: The author of this article gave a one sided view of the Black Panthers as modern day freedom fighters. In the interest of remembering the past..., let's not forget they murdered people in the process. Some of those people were law enforcement.

My Father's Cousin (a Philadelphia Police Sargent) was Murdered in cold blood by the Black Panthers in 1970. He was in his substation, unarmed and shot in the back of the head! Other LEOs were shot there that day. This triggered a war in the city.

Learn from the past.
Reach your goals by modeling what is most effective.
Shun those practices that are counterproductive to your goals.

oaklander
04-30-2012, 5:39 PM
Hi oaklander,

Just finished reading Adam Winkler's book "GunFight". I highly recommend the book! I'm now reading "Ambush at Ruby Ridge" by Alan Bock.

Oaklander have you read "Negroes with Guns" by Robert Williams?

Can you recommend some books on the Black Panthers and Malcolm X (his later years, I believe his view point changed).

Also, interestingly you no longer accept PM's form me; This is all new to me and I am just trying to learn, would like your help.

i will see what i can find - it is not you - i have over 3000 pm's, and i can't read all of them.

oaklander
04-30-2012, 5:41 PM
Reading the article, the BP was largely the cause of modern day gun control, not of modern day gun rights.

No doubt through much of American history, gun control was about keeping guns out of the hands of blacks. Not good!

The behavior of MLK did much more good for the rights of blacks than did the BPs. Much like how the calm cool leadership the NRA is bringing to the gun rights of all Americans. I remember in the 90s that we were in deep trouble. The NRA turned it around.

The provocative acts of the BPs caused a backlash that we all still live with today. Imagine if all us NRA members armed ourselves and took to the streets in a similarly provocative way as the BPs did. The same act would likely lead to more gun control that would last 100 years.

One more thing: The author of this article gave a one sided view of the Black Panthers as modern day freedom fighters. In the interest of remembering the past..., let's not forget they murdered people in the process. Some of those people were law enforcement.

My Father's Cousin (a Philadelphia Police Sargent) was Murdered in cold blood by the Black Panthers in 1970. He was in his substation, unarmed and shot in the back of the head! Other LEOs were shot there that day. This triggered a war in the city.

Learn from the past.
Reach your goals by modeling what is most effective.
Shun those practices that are counterproductive to your goals.

agree on tactics - and this is why i am not a fan of movements that contain any stridency, or anti-America feel. we work to make this country better because we love it - not because we hate it.

and the violence problem is absolutely a family problem, and that is how it will be solved - but it will take time, and opportunity.

i just skimmed the thread, and i am happy that people are being rational - there was another one in OT that seemed to contain a lot of hate and fear, kind of hiding under "science."

this country rights itself because individual Americans will do the right thing - if they know what it is. The media has gamed the issue very hard, and there are people who profit from pain. They are not who we think.

we must absolutely get back on focus that we are a country of morals, and i don't mean going to church every Sunday - heck, even i have missed the last few weeks - what I mean is that there is a wrong way to treat a fellow human, and a right way. There is a wrong way to raise a man, and a wrong way. There is a right way to fight violence, and a wrong way. If you want to see the "wrong" way - just look at our pain.

and violence is not solved by laws - it is solved by love.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+13:8-13&version=NIV

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

some of us are no longer thinking like children. we are now thinking like men. and this sort of thinking is not confined to any one religion. and "completeness" is unity.

vantec08
04-30-2012, 6:19 PM
We are obligated, oaklander, to speak the honest-to-God truth. . . . without spin, angst, shading, or parsing. Until we can have an HONEST discussion about such issues, we will stay stuck in nowhere. Meaningful dialogue has two requirements: 1 -- simple honesty. Speak the unvarnished truth. We can do "my reality - your reality" all decade and never get anywhere. 2 -- take responsibility for what you say (words have meaning and consequences).
It is useless for one entity in a two or more entity discussion to be the only honest/responsible speaker. When he/she/they are ready, so am I. The ignorant can be taught and are no longer ignorant, if they are teachable. Those that dont know that they dont know . . .well . . . .that is not redeemable.

oaklander
04-30-2012, 6:40 PM
We are obligated, oaklander, to speak the honest-to-God truth. . . . without spin, angst, shading, or parsing. Until we can have an HONEST discussion about such issues, we will stay stuck in nowhere. Meaningful dialogue has two requirements: 1 -- simple honesty. Speak the unvarnished truth. We can do "my reality - your reality" all decade and never get anywhere. 2 -- take responsibility for what you say (words have meaning and consequences).
It is useless for one entity in a two or more entity discussion to be the only honest/responsible speaker. When he/she/they are ready, so am I. The ignorant can be taught and are no longer ignorant, if they are teachable. Those that dont know that they dont know . . .well . . . .that is not redeemable.

You make sense. I know about spin because I used to do PR for a living. That means that I am conscious of it. Others are not. They do not even realize that they are repeating lies.

I try to only say things here that match up with truth. In my day job, I am also legally and ethically required to be 100 percent honest. In my marriage, we only speak truth. In church, same thing.

That is about the best I can do.

Sometimes I fail, but I NEVER lie. That being said, lawyers are experts at wording things to they make sense to the right people. I admit that.

I know what you are getting at - and all I can say is that as I kind of figured some stuff out - I got closer to faith.

NOW - with respect to reality - I do actually get to literally "see" things that most people here do not see. So it just is what it is. And I get back to my big push for the last 8 months that we must work out of love.

And I am literally IN an LE family. My wife works for a state agency (not BOF). Some of my best friends worry every day about getting shot because they wear a uniform to work. I also know people on the other side. Both sides must move towards love. No politics, media, social movement, occupy, press, social program, ANYTHING - will MAKE people change. It starts inside a person, and it starts with how that person is brought up. And much of this is connected to things that the person may not even have control over.

I know what it feels like to not have love. I was homeless for six weeks after I decided to go back to school - because one my parents did not want me living with them. I lived in a camper shell and pissed on the sides of buildings. This was more than 25 years ago, and that is just the half of it. People absolutely need to be surrounded by good people who love them without condition. I know what I am like when I am not loved.

This lack of love is the root of things.

And I have love now. Here, in deep East Oakland, in OUR community. More love than I ever had before. And THAT is why I care about this stuff. No other reason. If guns had not even been invented, I would STILL be doing whatever I am doing here. WE are good people, and we may "deserve" some of the crap we have. BUT NOT ALL OF IT. Some of it has been imposed.

Sorry to go OT on my own thread. This stuff just gets to me. I spent most of yesterday, kind of driving around East Oakland, and literally sobbing. Just thinking about the kids who are f-ed, because they were born into the wrong families. That is not spin. This is absolutely real to me, and to my friends, and to my family, and to people I do not even know. Yet I care about them, and I know it is not normal to care about people you don't know. Or maybe it is? I do not know anymore. Our society has gotten off track, and we need to right it.

Doheny
04-30-2012, 7:05 PM
...we are all God's children and when Jesus was asked what was the greatest commandment, his reply was "love one another as I have loved you".

Actually, the greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart and soul. Love thy neighbor as yourself is the second, but similar in importance.

Matthew 22:36-40 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22%3A36-40&version=NIV)

Stonewalker
04-30-2012, 8:43 PM
^ Yep. And the idea being that you do that one first, the 2nd should naturally follow from it.

Stonewalker
04-30-2012, 9:48 PM
I understand your view, but Im not so sure it was, or IS Commufornias intention to remove gun rights based on race. You can look at gun laws in certain counties and say the same thing. The laws, even unconstitutional cover all blacks, whites, Asian, or whoever else lives in those counties. The law just didnt "oppress" blacks, it oppressed ALL gun owners in that area. BPs once again pull the race card. Dont think for a second that they fight for your rights-unless you are black.

While the loaded open carry ban does not single out anyone based on race, it certainly was passed with the sole intention of disarming blacks in Oakland. And this leads right into something all of us pro-rights people already understand - they always strip away rights by convincing the majority that it doesn't affect them or that it will only affect whatever the bogeyman (group of people) du jour is.. As Reagen signed the Mulford act of 1967 into law, he did so saying something to the effect of I can't think of a valid reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons.

Try this quotation on for size -
When they took the fourth amendment, I was silent because I don't deal drugs.
When they took the sixth amendment, I kept quiet because I know I'm innocent.
When they took the second amendment, I said nothing because I don't own a gun.
Now they've come for the first amendment, and I can't say anything at all.

This is exactly what happened when the Mulford Act was signed into law. Most of California voters wrongly felt that self-defense wasn't a concern because of police or whatever, and the legislature used this as political capital. Now Don Mulford and Reagan get to look like they are protecting people when in fact they KNOW they are specifically oppressing blacks in Oakland. Seriously, no matter what the group is that is being ostracized, we all need to protect their civil rights. That is why I defend the Black Panthers, because I'm defending individual rights. I know they wouldn't do the same for me but that doesn't matter. When a Black Panther's rights are trampled (or a murderer's, or terrorists, etc etc) then MY rights are trampled as well, as are yours.

vantec08
05-01-2012, 1:56 AM
You make sense. I know about spin because I used to do PR for a living. That means that I am conscious of it. Others are not. They do not even realize that they are repeating lies.

I try to only say things here that match up with truth. In my day job, I am also legally and ethically required to be 100 percent honest. In my marriage, we only speak truth. In church, same thing.

That is about the best I can do.

Sometimes I fail, but I NEVER lie. That being said, lawyers are experts at wording things to they make sense to the right people. I admit that.

I know what you are getting at - and all I can say is that as I kind of figured some stuff out - I got closer to faith.

NOW - with respect to reality - I do actually get to literally "see" things that most people here do not see. So it just is what it is. And I get back to my big push for the last 8 months that we must work out of love.

And I am literally IN an LE family. My wife works for a state agency (not BOF). Some of my best friends worry every day about getting shot because they wear a uniform to work. I also know people on the other side. Both sides must move towards love. No politics, media, social movement, occupy, press, social program, ANYTHING - will MAKE people change. It starts inside a person, and it starts with how that person is brought up. And much of this is connected to things that the person may not even have control over.

I know what it feels like to not have love. I was homeless for six weeks after I decided to go back to school - because one my parents did not want me living with them. I lived in a camper shell and pissed on the sides of buildings. This was more than 25 years ago, and that is just the half of it. People absolutely need to be surrounded by good people who love them without condition. I know what I am like when I am not loved.

This lack of love is the root of things.

And I have love now. Here, in deep East Oakland, in OUR community. More love than I ever had before. And THAT is why I care about this stuff. No other reason. If guns had not even been invented, I would STILL be doing whatever I am doing here. WE are good people, and we may "deserve" some of the crap we have. BUT NOT ALL OF IT. Some of it has been imposed.

Sorry to go OT on my own thread. This stuff just gets to me. I spent most of yesterday, kind of driving around East Oakland, and literally sobbing. Just thinking about the kids who are f-ed, because they were born into the wrong families. That is not spin. This is absolutely real to me, and to my friends, and to my family, and to people I do not even know. Yet I care about them, and I know it is not normal to care about people you don't know. Or maybe it is? I do not know anymore. Our society has gotten off track, and we need to right it.




You demonstrate the investment of Heart that is the ONLY thing we have left to offer. Your post should be required reading for How To Live a Meaningful life.

masameet
05-01-2012, 3:09 AM
Well, I read Winkler's article. Also looked at the PBS bit on the Black Panther Party's Sacramento activism (http://www.pbs.org/hueypnewton/actions/actions_capitolmarch.html) as well as this CalWatchDog.com story on open carry (http://www.calwatchdog.com/2011/12/13/lawsuit-takes-bead-on-%E2%80%98open-carry%E2%80%99-gun-ban/).

Pioneer is not quite the right word for the BPP. Instead of creating something positive, they created a backlash that curtailed their then intentions and affected folks like us decades later and to come. They are like the migrant workers of the 1920s who tried to unionize for better pay but instead were beaten or killed into submission. They might have tried it first but they lost both the battle and the war, leaving the migrant workers to wait until Cesar Chavez came along, with his sit-in starvations and other activities, for most Americans to recognize the rights of migrant workers.

For sure, the BPP failed spectacularly by not getting the local politicians at the time -- state Sen. John Nejedly and Oakland Assemblyman Don Mulford -- on their side. Nejedly and Mulford were both born and raised in Oakland, Mulford in East Oakland, at a time when Oakland was primarily white and with a small black population (who did not harbor the fear and anger that the thousands of blacks from the South had and who settled in Oakland during and after WWII). So instead of getting the status quo (white people in power) to recognize their needs (making sure then primarily white OPD didn't beat up black suspects) and see them as legitimate neighbors (instead of wrong-color Johnny-come-latelies), the BPP succeeded in scaring and putting white people on the defensive. Nobody wins in this kind of a scenario. (And of course the BPP scared Mr. FBI himself, J. Edgar Hoover, to authorize all sorts of legitimate and illegitimate activities against them.)

If we continue to compare the migrant worker activism of Cesar Chavez with that of the BPP, then even by looking at old black-and-white photographs of that era we can appreciate how politicians flocked to "Si se puede" and not "Black Power!"

So I suppose if the objective of this thread is to get Oakland (and then the rest of California) to accept firearms as something positive instead of something feared, well, maybe take a page from that Washington Times reporter/advocate. She got a D.C. politician to shoot with her at some local shooting range. He liked shooting so much that, and I might have remembered this incorrectly, he went and bought himself a handgun.

At the March 2012 Pinole Planning Commission hearing, the commissioners were stressing "safety." If we can get politicians to start thinking "safety with gun in hand" and remove the negative mindset regarding guns, that's a start. If Scalia can get Kagan to like shooting shotguns, can you imagine what you can accomplish in Oakland by inviting Mayor Quan to a Chabot Shoot-n-Que? She likes to try things out at least once. Give her a reason to accept.

Steyr_223
05-01-2012, 6:34 AM
good reading. Keep up the great work Oak.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

oaklander
05-01-2012, 8:39 AM
can accomplish in Oakland by inviting Mayor Quan to a Chabot Shoot-n-Que? She likes to try things out at least once. Give her a reason to accept.

Her, and half of city council, and a whole bunch of other elected and appointed people are on my Facebook page.

That is why I try to post certain things - since I know those things end up in their daily feed. I also kind of know them from hanging out with people who work work for peace.

I consider myself a fairly nice person, even if I look funny and stuff like that with all the tattoos. That is just fashion.

I am trying to get people to realize that people who believe in self defense are not bad people. And I have to keep adding that we do not need to be perfect - we just need to be sincere, friendly and reasonable. So much is just being nice to people.

I learned that here. And "here" in DEO - if you are not nice to people, it creates problems over time, as it should.

NYsteveZ
05-01-2012, 8:57 AM
I can understand the Black Panthers are "not the same as they were in the 60s" however, just a few weeks ago they had posters with crosshairs on a man who was not even convicted (yet) of any crime. Not really poster children (pun intended) for gun rights activists.

oaklander
05-01-2012, 9:07 AM
I can understand the Black Panthers are "not the same as they were in the 60s" however, just a few weeks ago they had posters with crosshairs on a man who was not even convicted (yet) of any crime. Not really poster children (pun intended) for gun rights activists.

NO - two different groups. It is like comparing a modern "Indian Motorcycle" to an original. The only thing shared is the name.

Please, think more.

CessnaDriver
05-01-2012, 10:06 AM
The result they got was anti-gun legislation passed.
So what exactly was good about how they went about things?

oaklander
05-01-2012, 4:18 PM
They did many good things, and I think they got caught up in all the 1960's fervor. Just like some of the "occupy" people *mean well* - they just picked bad tactics.

The Panthers are STILL highly respected here in Oakland. And I say that as someone who knows people who know the remaining ones.

That does not mean that I agree with violence, and I know NO rational person who agrees with senseless violence. But people need to remember that MOST of what they did was basic community stuff - right here.

The lesson is that positive change should never be strident, and we insist on our rights, and we use all legal and ethical means to get them. But we simply reject the tactics of certain groups.

Even now, the groups that do large demonstrations actually FAIL to make any needed progress. The progress we make on the civil rights issue is done one case at a time, one news story at a time, one friend at a time, one politician at a time, and one mind at a time.

That is how we work now.

And we look to the past, both for inspiration, and as a warning.

nicki
05-01-2012, 6:44 PM
Both the Black Panthers and the government did bad things in the 1960s.

Lots of stuff came up about questionable actions by the FBI and other government agencies after J Edgar Hoover died.

The real question is what kind of organization was the Black Panthers before the enactment of the Mulford Act.

What direction would the Black Panther's have gone if when they went to the capitol that the legislators talked with the Black Panthers, asked them their grievances and instead of passing the Mulford Act, thanked them for coming to the Capitol and made an honest commitment with real follow through on addressing their legitimate grievances.

You have to remember that the Black Panthers at the time were relatively young, they were in their 20s.

I remember Eldridge Clever coming back to the United States after visiting and living in communist countries renouncing communism as a failed policy.

This is an explosive topic and of course there will always be what ifs.

Nicki

triggatronic
05-01-2012, 7:55 PM
Great thread guys. Glad to see great input regarding The BPPFSD. Their movement was very American and it should be celebrated or at least discussed more often.

hoffmang
05-01-2012, 9:15 PM
And there is one phrase utterly missing from this entire conversation that makes it all make much more sense:

Deacons for Defense and Justice

When folks realize that the old Black Panthers (not the new - as much to with the old as New Coke has to do with Coke) were the radicalized version, much of Oak's point will make a whole lot more sense.

The '68 Black Panthers were the last battle fought by the Freedman of 1868.

-Gene

Exposed
05-01-2012, 9:54 PM
And there is one phrase utterly missing from this entire conversation that makes it all make much more sense:

Deacons for Defense and Justice

When folks realize that the old Black Panthers (not the new - as much to with the old as New Coke has to do with Coke) were the radicalized version, much of Oak's point will make a whole lot more sense.

The '68 Black Panthers were the last battle fought by the Freedman of 1868.

-Gene


HERE HERE!!!!!

When I first saw the video of "the new black panther party" speaking out against Zimmerman (about a month ago), all I could think was........"These clowns are an embarrassing farce to the legacy of the TRUE Black Panther Party of the 1960s.

BTW, whats up Oak? Long time no see.....since I deleted my FB page lol.

-DDLT

oaklander
05-02-2012, 12:29 AM
HERE HERE!!!!!

When I first saw the video of "the new black panther party" speaking out against Zimmerman (about a month ago), all I could think was........"These clowns are an embarrassing farce to the legacy of the TRUE Black Panther Party of the 1960s.

BTW, whats up Oak? Long time no see.....since I deleted my FB page lol.

-DDLT

LOL, no mucho!!! I have been spending too much time on Facebook. I should delete mine as well!!!!

:D

But the cool thing is that everyone here in Oakland is on Facebook. So half of my Facebook is civil rights people, and the other half is civil rights people. . .

That is kind of the point that I have been making. This is still very much the same fight, at least up here. That is the kind of thing that people need to see. We are highly aligned with the movement that started at lunch counters and on buses.

That is why I don't really get any pushback here. It is the same movement. And that is why I am trying to remind people that any time a group of people has problems with unfair laws and policies, we are the same movement.

Um, well, I guess I need to do more BBQ's, and relax a bit. I am seriously working over 40 hours plus, per week on this stuff. And another 30 to 40 for my day job. No rest for the wicked. . .

BUT - the multiple levels of unfairness that I see here just get to me. And I am trying to show people literally how "we" did it. And they are listening. And it starts with deciding that we CAN win, and that we ARE one team!!!

ROFL - that is the other thing - I have been preaching a lot. I think it's from going to church. Just kind of seems like the thing to do, and the reason is that our battle on these things is very much a moral battle. It literally is good over evil.

Institutional evil, at the very least.