PDA

View Full Version : Sig P226 or Browning Hi-Power need help!!!


reddot15
04-27-2012, 9:21 AM
I need some help to choose between Sig p226 and Browning Hi-Power. Donít know a lot about these two guns, so any input will be appreciated. The price of these two are about the same, I find some dealers sale them online for around $800-900. The Browning sales little more than the Sig, and actually one dealer sales Sig p266 with Sig .22 conversion kit for $800 plus shipping. I like them both and looks like are very well made with long history. So far, I like the Browning more because of the all steel frame, but I am worry about the blue finish on the gun, it looks like this will be a high maintenance gun. I really donít know a lot about Sig, so if you are a Sig owner please give me some feedback.

Thanks.

paul0660
04-27-2012, 9:26 AM
Please explain how you got the contest to be between these two. They are quite different, and there may be more suitable guns for you.

gorenut
04-27-2012, 9:28 AM
I think you should do more research yourself. Both are good guns, but just asking in the forum.. you'll get a bunch of biased opinions on both guns. The Sig is more modern and the takedown process couldn't be any easier.. that said.. I'm no longer a big proponent of DA/SA. Single-action only Sigs usually only come on their premium models that run over a grand. I owned 4 Sigs in the past, but got rid of them in favor of SAO or striker-fired guns.

You should really find a range with ideally both guns to try out. It'll probably be easier to find a range that carries a Sig and really test out the gun transitioning from double action to single action and see how you like it. All too often, people shoot DA/SA handguns and only ever shoot it in single-action. If you decide on a DA/SA, its very important that you familiarize yourself with the transition. My girlfriend's last favored gun I owned was a Walther P99.. while she shot the gun in SA like champ, she didn't do so favorably in DA. Now her new favorite gun of mine is a CZ 75 in single action only.

PS: Don't worry too much about the blued finish wearing down a little.. I think it adds character to the gun... oh yea.. now that I mentioned it above, you might also want to check out CZ 75s. They're more affordable than both the guns you mentioned and seem to share a lot of traits with the Hi-Power. Its a more modern design than the Hi-Power as well and if the gun fits.. it'll run more accurate than guns going more than double its price.

Iknownot
04-27-2012, 9:38 AM
They are quite different, and there may be more suitable guns for you.

I don't think they are much different at all, personally. Their only major difference is the trigger in terms of SA vs DA/SA and when the sig is is SA mode, it feels similar enough to the high power trigger that the difference is negligible, IMO.

On everything else, ergonomics, grip, felt recoil and flip, pointing, etc, they are nearly identical to me.

If you were blindfolded, holding one or the other and someone else actuated the trigger, I think the average person would be hard pressed to tell which gun they were holding.

Just my 2 cents.

Aside from that, go out and rent or try (a friend's) a 226 and high power and see which you like best.

paul0660
04-27-2012, 9:42 AM
Their only major difference is the trigger in terms of SA vs DA/SA

Pretty much the point. Determines how you carry it, if you do, as well.


If you were blindfolded, holding one or the other and someone else actuated the trigger, I think the average person would be hard pressed to tell which gun they were holding.


Okayyyyyy. Average person, maybe. Average shooter, no.

Iknownot
04-27-2012, 9:46 AM
I'm not knocking either gun. They feel nearly identical to me in handling, aside from the trigger. That's my major point, minus hyperbole.

davbog44
04-27-2012, 9:57 AM
I own a bunch of SIGs, including a P226, and I have been very happy with all of them. They feed anything, they're easy to maintain, and the P226 is one of the world's absolute best handguns ever made.

The dilemma being, so is the Browning HP. To me the HP is a little like the 1911, in that it just points and shoots so naturally, and seems to be one of those pistols that is almost universally ergonomic for small handed shooters, guys with big mitts, and everything in between.

The best advice, really the only advice I can give (other than the obnoxious "buy both) is to find a range with rentals, or some other situation that allows you the chance to handle and shoot both.

gorenut
04-27-2012, 9:58 AM
The difference between training with a DA/SA and a SAO gun is a big difference. I think you're oversimplifying trigger mechanics.

9mmepiphany
04-27-2012, 9:58 AM
If you were blindfolded, holding one or the other and someone else actuated the trigger, I think the average person would be hard pressed to tell which gun they were holding
I've owned both and have to disagree with this.

They feel completely different at both the top of the grip and at the bottom...to say nothing of their balance and how they point.

Even if you did not trigger it, the recoil feels very different as I've found the Hi-Power's recoil (9mm) much more distracting

paul0660
04-27-2012, 10:01 AM
A CZ seems like a logical compromise, and should be considered.

zfields
04-27-2012, 10:13 AM
I've owned both and have to disagree with this.

They feel completely different at both the top of the grip and at the bottom...to say nothing of their balance and how they point.

Even if you did not trigger it, the recoil feels very different as I've found the Hi-Power's recoil (9mm) much more distracting

Agreed with all except about recoil. Completely different feeling guns.

Sturnovik
04-27-2012, 10:17 AM
They feel completely different. I recommend SIGs a ton, but you have to figure out if you want da/SA or SA only first..

compulsivegunbuyer
04-27-2012, 10:31 AM
I just bought a Sig P226 and have yet to pick it up, so I can't give an opinion as of yet. My only advice is rent them and pick one. It seems you really have to just make your own decision and just buy something these days, because I can't find one single gun that does not have both good and bad reviews. The internet is just a worthless collection of unverifiable opinions for the most part. I researched the Sig, and I found a loyal following who say it's the best handgun made, and a die hard group of detractors who say it's German made or nothing, and that any Sig made in America is junk, period. They also lament that when you try and get it serviced Sig will basically tell you to pound sand and that it's your problem now. I have also read that Sig sent a faulty batch of guns to a LE department and they came back defective, so they just dumped them on the civilian market. Is any of this true? I have no clue. If you believe the collection of meaningless conjecture that is the internet, this maker or that maker of firearms is cutting quality, raising prices, has no QC, and abysmal customer service. On the flip side you will find that some have bought multiple guns from the same company and have not had a single issue.
Hope this helps, and good luck.
CGB

paul0660
04-27-2012, 10:37 AM
Sig will basically tell you to pound sand and that it's your problem now.

Not true. (603) 772-2302, an American human will answer, and they have cheap shipping if it is out of warranty.

Iknownot
04-27-2012, 10:45 AM
I can't believe you guys think the high power is that different from the 226.

It could be named the 227 for all the difference there is.

IMO.

And to be fair, I'd say the same (though not AS similar) of the CZ and some other larger frame semi's I have tried. So I will admit that perhaps it is me when it comes to semi's. Though, I have run into semi's that are quite different in "feel" like the beretta 92 and obviously polymer guns, but this is all going off on a big tangent.

I stand by what I said in terms of my opinion on the high power and the 226 and in the end, trying them out and seeing which feels better is the best course of action anyway.

nikki#2
04-27-2012, 10:46 AM
I was in the same position and chose the p226 (first). I too appreciate the history & beauty of the High Power. Definitely handle the HP side-by-side with the p226 if possible.
I handled the 75th Anniversary HP model w/ fixed sights... I may still buy one with adjustable sights like the one in the picture...
But there was no question: The p226 fit my hand better. Hammer bite can be an issue on the HP. If you have smaller hands, try the Sig E2 grips.
The HP had a thick grip, it felt like the wood panels were a little too thick for my hand (check out the pic). Both would benefit from a trigger job.

I just installed these rosewood Elite grips on my p226 and while they are definitely larger than stock, the fit is perfect for my hands. :cool:

Good Luck! :2guns:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/surfdog_photos/browning2.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/surfdog_photos/p226cr-1.jpg

Moto4Fun
04-27-2012, 11:14 AM
They are definitely different pistols. Compared to all guns, yes, they are very similar in size and feel. But one is an old design with an old look. The other is a modern pistol. As far as look and feel, that will be individual to your tastes. You certainly need to consider the trigger action, but if it is for recreational use at the range, it doesn't really matter. I have had a number of Sigs, and always liked them. I am currently on a SAO or Striker fired kick after many years in the DA/SA camp. But I wouldn't put that much weight in to it unless you are going be carrying all of the time or will have a job where the pistol is your tool.

My thought has always been that the DA pull on a DA/SA gun is that the safety is built in to the trigger. One less motion to train for (switching off the thumb safety), and if you have the time and preparing to have to use it, you can always thumb the hammer back. If you only use it for the range, it really doesn't matter, because you can shoot both with the ideal trigger (SA) all of time if you want. Sure I used to train with the DA trigger, but in my opinion, the first trigger pull on any gun is different than the follow ups.

Man, now I want to go get a p226!

straykiller
04-27-2012, 11:38 AM
Im choosing the p226 i have the cash in hand after selling a few guns

tacticalcity
04-27-2012, 11:45 AM
Hi-Power. Classic John Browning design. I will take SAO over DA/SA every day of the week. One of my favorite guns.

I have a much different take on the DA pull than Moto4Fun, though he makes some good points. The solution to getting around having a safety is the Glock or Glock clone approach, where the trigger pull is still the same every time. The DA/SA solution results in too many problems of its own. Since the Glock doesn't appeal to you, at least not right now, we have to look at the guns you do like. One of which is one of my favorite guns...the Hi-Power.

Bear in mind my comments are based on the idea that you plan to use the gun defensively, and not just for plinking. If all you want to do is just punch holes in the paper on Sunday, any gun will do. If it is a tool meant to keep you alive, then this stuff begins to matter. Lots of people disogree, but lots of people feel the same way I do. You have to decide for yourself what makes the most sense to you.

Both guns are well made, respected, and reliable. They are both leaps and bounds ahead of a very long list of inferior guns and would make just about any experts top 10 handgun list, regardless of their preferrances about actions and so on. So you are starting off from a great place.

That said. In my not so humble opinion, it is more difficult a thing to truly master the DA/SA trigger to the point where you are actually effective and competent when under stress than to get to the point where flipping off the safety is instinctual and muscle memory. People underestimate the difficulty of mastering the DA/SA pull and almost always overestimate their own ability - until they take a professional training course and actually train realistically and under pressure. Then they realize just how difficult it is, and just how much work they still need to do. It certainly can be done, but it takes a great deal of effort. I'm of the opinion that if you can skip it, and use a different gun design that is easier to master, you should.

Having two distinct trigger pulls results in two distinct groupings. So you end up with one high grouping and one low, and none in the middle. Why? Under stress your first pull you start too slow then rush it, and then you way overdo the follow up shots. Mastering the trigger on a DA/SA under pressure takes years of training. Eventually you smooth things out, and end up with one nice grouping where you want it. But slack off in your training and that grouping beings to seperate again.

Having a safety is an issue because as anyone who carries a gun for a living knows, flipping off a safety is not a natural thing. It is counter intuative, but having a safety can be unsafe. Until you train yourself to do things the exact same way, every single time, you will lack the confidence to know what condition the safety is in. You will often find yourself drawing to fire, only to discover you left the safety on. Do that in real life and you just took 3-5 rounds the chest without ever firing a shot. It is going to take constant and proper training to get to the point where you flip off that safety by instinct, and flip it back on before holstering by instinct. But I would argue this will take a lot less time than it would to truly master the DA/SA pull on the Sig. Not being able to hit where you are aiming is as bad, or worse, than not being able to fire because you left the safety on. You might get killed, but at least your loved ones won't get sued afterwards because not only did you not kill the bad guy but your stray rounds killed some innocent kid off to the side and down the way from the guy who killed you.

So again, I would argue that it takes less training time to turn flipping off the safety into instinctive muscle memory that it does to actually become competent with the DA/SA trigger. But both require significant training to actually reach a level of competence beyond just the plinking for fun stage. Neither gun is a buy it, stick it in the drawer, and then rise to the occassion when needed. No gun is. All require training and trigger time to master.

HPGunner
04-27-2012, 11:49 AM
I've owned a P228 and still have my Hi Power. I like Single Action or Striker fire guns, thus I choose to keep the Hi Power.

CZ is another good option and I've owned a few of those in the past too. If you get the basic CZ with the manual safety you carry it cocked and locked with one in the chamber. You can also get the CZ in SAO or one with a decocker like the Sig which then you can't carry cocked and locked. Check out CZ - cheaper than both Sig and Hi Power.

MyGlock17
04-27-2012, 11:49 AM
226 imo :) even the 229 should be on the list as well...

tacticalcity
04-27-2012, 1:06 PM
226 imo :) even the 229 should be on the list as well...

Sinner! How dare you as a Glock guy say nice things about the Sig!!!

:inquis:

I kid of course.

nikki#2
04-27-2012, 1:22 PM
"... So far, I like the Browning more because of the all steel frame, but I am worry about the blue finish on the gun, it looks like this will be a high maintenance gun..."



^^ Don't know if all blued models of the HP are as 'highly-polished' as the 75th Anniversary Model that I looked at.... But yeah, I was also a bit concerned about the long-term maintenance of the super-polished finish...
You might also look at the Mark III which also has the steel frame, but frame & slide are coated in back epoxy. I prefer the blued version w/ walnut grips for sure, but no doubt the epoxy version hides scratches better.
My dealer had the Mark III in both Black and Digital Camo... it may come in other colors/designs as well.

Then again... maybe you should consider a p226 in stainless steel.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/surfdog_photos/hi-power-mark-iii-mid-051001-l.jpg

9mmepiphany
04-27-2012, 1:53 PM
I can't believe you guys think the high power is that different from the 226.

It could be named the 227 for all the difference there is.

IMO.

And to be fair, I'd say the same (though not AS similar) of the CZ and some other larger frame semi's I have tried. So I will admit that perhaps it is me when it comes to semi's. Though, I have run into semi's that are quite different in "feel" like the beretta 92 and obviously polymer guns, but this is all going off on a big tangent.

I stand by what I said in terms of my opinion on the high power and the 226 and in the end, trying them out and seeing which feels better is the best course of action anyway.
Now if you had said the CZ 75 and the Hi-Power (FN P-35) felt the same in the hand, I'd agree with you. I'd also agree that the SIG 226 feels a lot like a Beretta 92. But in a blind fold test, I'd think 7 out of ten could tell the FN/CZ from the SIG/Beretta...at least they were able to when we had them for testing in my old department

When the British SAS dumped their P-35s for the 226, they reported there was quite a difference in how the two pointed (Jane's Defense Quarterly), but they found that the 226 was just as accurate, more reliable with less maintenance and held up better in training.

zfields
04-27-2012, 2:08 PM
Now if you had said the CZ 75 and the Hi-Power (FN P-35) felt the same in the hand, I'd agree with you. I'd also agree that the SIG 226 feels a lot like a Beretta 92. But in a blind fold test, I'd think 7 out of ten could tell the FN/CZ from the SIG/Beretta...at least they were able to when we had them for testing in my old department

When the British SAS dumped their P-35s for the 226, they reported there was quite a difference in how the two pointed (Jane's Defense Quarterly), but they found that the 226 was just as accurate, more reliable with less maintenance and held up better in training.

Having owned both, I think the CZ points a lot more naturally. Also the factory rubber grips on most CZ's are just about perfect compared to the slab HP, or the MIII contoured.

Striker
04-27-2012, 2:31 PM
Tactical City pretty much covered everything. So, I would ask how much handgun shooting experience do you have? Have you run 1911s/anything with a TS or anything DA/SA at speed? Second, I would ask what's your intended use for the pistol? Just static, square range shooting, HD, CC? You need to be able to answer these questions for yourself and, if for defense purposes, you need to figure out how much time you're willing to put into this and be honest with yourself.

It takes time and a lot of commitment to master DA/SA at speed. Roll and press sounds easy, but it is not. Disengaging, and just as important, re-engaging a TS is something that also takes practice. If you're a 1911 guy, it's something that's second nature to you. If you're a Glock guy, it's not something you even think about. What I'm saying is a lot depends on you; your intended use for the pistol, your past experience and your commitment to training.

nikki#2
04-27-2012, 2:33 PM
"... Now if you had said the CZ 75 and the Hi-Power (FN P-35) felt the same in the hand, I'd agree with you."



Here's a pretty good video comparing some differences between the CZ 75 and Browning Hi Power: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AaT3QGVqFU

I think the guy does a good job of reviewing the HP here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqYO26eqlZE&feature=channel&list=UL

paul0660
04-27-2012, 2:34 PM
http://files.coloribus.com/files/adsarchive/part_660/6600805/file/gun-control-awareness-backwards-gun-small-53151.jpg

And you don't feel the recoil at all.

paul0660
04-27-2012, 2:40 PM
Here's a pretty good video comparing some differences between the CZ 75 and Browning Hi Power:

So far no one has said they are the same, but rather have the same feel.

I can't find a vid comparing a Sig to a HP.

nikki#2
04-27-2012, 2:43 PM
So far no one has said they are the same, but rather have the same feel.



Totally agree... didn't mean it that way. Just informative for the OP.

paul0660
04-27-2012, 2:49 PM
Totally agree... didn't mean it that way. Just informative for the OP.

Gotcha. I did not mean to suggest that the CZ is a HP clone, just that the DA/SA thing would be a compromise between Sig and HP.

Reddot needs to do more research and trying out. He does say that he doesn't know much, twice, in his OP. Good handguns are expensive, and buyers remorse really sucks.

Oldnoob
04-27-2012, 2:57 PM
Two of my top list all time favorite pistols. How experience are you as a shooter? If you are some what new to handgun, I would go with the Sig. Only because it come with the 22lr conversion package. So you can practice with both caliber. And Sig is DA/SA, allow you to try both form of DA trigger and SA shooting.

Personally, Hi Power will be rated a tab higher than 226. But that's just because my personal preference (SA over DA/SA), and the history of the design.

Oldnoob
04-27-2012, 3:01 PM
On the finish area, as other had point out. Hi Power has the regular Mark III version with is black coating instead of high polish finish. Which will be more durable than the Sig's current nitron finish.

Of course, you can always go with Stainless steel 226. Than it will be steel vs steel comparison.

Oldnoob
04-27-2012, 3:05 PM
What I can grantee you is, that you will be happy with either one of them.

tacticalcity
04-27-2012, 3:10 PM
Gotcha. I did not mean to suggest that the CZ is a HP clone, just that the DA/SA thing would be a compromise between Sig and HP.

Reddot needs to do more research and trying out. He does say that he doesn't know much, twice, in his OP. Good handguns are expensive, and buyers remorse really sucks.

I don't see how the other guy thinks they are similar either. Mechanically and usage wise the DA/SA action on the Sig is very different than the SAO action on the Hi-Power. The Hi-Power works most like a 1911. It is the gun John Browing started to design after he designed the 1911 but he died before finishing his work and had to be finished by others. Which explains why functionality wise, they are so similar.

zfields
04-27-2012, 3:26 PM
I don't see how the other guy thinks they are similar either. Mechanically and usage wise the DA/SA action on the Sig is very different than the SAO action on the Hi-Power. The Hi-Power works most like a 1911. It is the gun John Browing started to design after he designed the 1911 but he died before finishing his work and had to be finished by others. Which explains why functionality wise, they are so similar.

Internally hipower and 1911s are still pretty different. No straight pull trigger, linkless barrel, different style of barrel lugs, ramped barrel, etc.

tacticalcity
04-27-2012, 3:36 PM
Internally hipower and 1911s are still pretty different. No straight pull trigger, linkless barrel, different style of barrel lugs, ramped barrel, etc.

Gotcha, I mean SAO vs. DA/SA and all that goes along with that difference.

Iknownot
04-27-2012, 4:19 PM
I don't see how the other guy thinks they are similar either. Mechanically and usage wise the DA/SA action on the Sig is very different than the SAO action on the Hi-Power. The Hi-Power works most like a 1911. It is the gun John Browing started to design after he designed the 1911 but he died before finishing his work and had to be finished by others. Which explains why functionality wise, they are so similar.

I don't think the 1911 is so similar to the high power, other than being designed by the same guy. The grip is different, with the 1911 is being more skinny. Plus, the flip and recoil on the 1911 is larger, IMO. If you back to back a 9mm 1911 and a high power, the high power has less flip and is a much more cushy shot in terms of felt recoil. IMO.

Gotcha, I mean SAO vs. DA/SA and all that goes along with that difference.

That's the only difference, which I stated in my original post. "Trigger differences aside..." I said.

Size, weight, grip angle, recoil felt, flip, pointing, etc, all feel almost exactly the same to me. Look at the side by side photos in post #16: From the trigger guard back, both gun frames looks nearly similar in shape, ergonomics and design.

I understand I am in the minority on this one, from what others are posting, but I honestly do not thing there is any real fundamental difference between the two guns, aside from the trigger.

And even then, once the sig is in SA mode, the triggers end up being fairly similar in feel (Not exact, similar).

Just my 2 cents.

beretta929mm
04-27-2012, 4:30 PM
I love my BHP MKIII so much that I feel bad to take it out and shoot.:rolleyes:

tacticalcity
04-27-2012, 4:32 PM
I don't think the 1911 is so similar to the high power, other than being designed by the same guy. The grip is different, with the 1911 is being more skinny. Plus, the flip and recoil on the 1911 is larger, IMO. If you back to back a 9mm 1911 and a high power, the high power has less flip and is a much more cushy shot in terms of felt recoil. IMO.



That's the only difference, which I stated in my original post. "Trigger differences aside..." I said.

Size, weight, grip angle, recoil felt, flip, pointing, etc, all feel almost exactly the same to me. Look at the side by side photos in post #16: From the trigger guard back, both gun frames looks nearly similar in shape, ergonomics and design.

I understand I am in the minority on this one, from what others are posting, but I honestly do not thing there is any real fundamental difference between the two guns, aside from the trigger.

And even then, once the sig is in SA mode, the triggers end up being fairly similar in feel (Not exact, similar).

Just my 2 cents.

You group guns by action type and not by the more superficial features. Why? It is all about how it functions and how you shoot it in self defense / carry situations.

The 1911 and Hi-Power are carried and shot identically. You start cocked and locked in the holster, draw, flip off the safety as you point in on target, and pull the trigger having a relatively short and identical trigger pull each time, and then engage the safety with the hammer cocked before reholstering the gun. If you have experience with a 1911 there is little to no learning cuver using the Hi-Power.

The Sig as DA/SA gun works very differently. Trying to switch from a 1911 to Sig or Hi-Power to a Sig and there will be a significant learning curve. Why? Because the action directly effects the manual of arms. You do all kinds of critical things differently. Meanwhile it would be a lot easier for an owner of another DA/SA gun to transition to the Sig because they already have some familiarity with the DA/SA trigger two different pulls and are already familiar with having to decock every single time before they holster the weapon. They may get a little tripped up if their gun had a thumb safety, but the rest will be the same.

Likewise, if you are a DA/SA guy and you switch to 1911 or Hi-Power you may find yourself decocking and holstering only to discover that when you draw and point in and pull the trigger it is dead. Won't work without the hammer cocked. Common mistake DA/SA guys make about 100 times when they first start training with an SAO, even though you would think it would be a do it once and learn your lessing thing. Why? Muscle memory is a ***** to overcome. You do something a few thousand times and you start doing it without realizing you are doing it.

Paradiddle
04-27-2012, 4:41 PM
I don't see how the other guy thinks they are similar either. Mechanically and usage wise the DA/SA action on the Sig is very different than the SAO action on the Hi-Power. The Hi-Power works most like a 1911. It is the gun John Browing started to design after he designed the 1911 but he died before finishing his work and had to be finished by others. Which explains why functionality wise, they are so similar.

I think most of the people missed iknotnots point (or at least the point I think he is trying to make). He clearly states to him they point and feel the same. Obviously the trigger feel is different. He is saying to him they point the same. I haven't shot a 226 in the same session as the HP so until I do I can't state my opinion of his statement

I've shot my HP and my CZ75SA (converted to DA/SA) back to back and they feel VERY similar. The recoil impulse is a little different - I think if pressed into picking one I would say the HP points a little better. Personnally I think the HP points better then a 1911 (which was also part of the same session of 9mm shooting I did the other day).

I will also once again state that, at least to me, a good DA/SA trigger is not difficult to learn and can be mastered. I don't have a group change when I shot or compete with my CZ. I've shot for a long time, but I've only competed and shot under pressure for a couple of years now so it's not like I'm Jeff Cooper. Get the gun that fits your hand, that you like the feel of, and that shoots "good" to YOU.

Try a bunch in person - and try to ignore the internet as much as possible.

:)

Iknownot
04-27-2012, 4:41 PM
tacticalcity, you have trigger on the brain.


If you think trigger is that important, I don't see how you dismiss felt recoil and flip out of hand. Or any other feature of one gun vs another, like ergonomics, grip width, or whatever.

paul0660
04-27-2012, 4:49 PM
Common mistake DA/SA guys make about 100 times when they first start training with an SAO,

100 times...................man we are so stuuuuupiddddd.

tacticalcity
04-27-2012, 4:52 PM
Not trigger. Action. Action effects how you as the user carry it and shoot it.

You group guns by action first, then go from there. This is not me being a "little hitler" insisting you do it my. This is the industry standard.

Your argument would be like saying...

The pretty woman has size "c" cup breast implants, a slender frame, and long brown hair.
The ugly woman has size "b" cup flabby breasts, a wide frame, and short blonde hair.
The t-boy has size "c" cup breast implants, a slender frame, and long brown hair.
Therefore the the pretty woman and t-boy are the same and the ones you should choose between.

You are glossing right over the most important difference, and the only one that really matters.

tacticalcity
04-27-2012, 4:55 PM
100 times...................man we are so stuuuuupiddddd.

Take or teach a course and have people switch to a different action type than the one they have mastered. Sit back and watch.

It is not about being stupid or smart. It is about muscle memory. Which I specifically said. Do something a million times, and you will continue doing it without realizing you are doing it. Even if you tell yourself, I will not do that every again, and get really furious with yourself. A few tries later you end up doing it again.

Switching from one type of action to another, regardless of which it is, involves a significant change in muscle memory. The more engrained you are with one action, the more difficult it is to make the switch.

It is an "old dog new tricks" thing.

I don't know how much training you guys have. Or how much you focus on defensive shooting vs. focusing just on accuracy at your local range. But when you train from a carry perspective, the differences in action become all the more critical. When you throw in working at very fast speeds, those seemingly tiny differences get drastically exhadurated. When you are switching to something new, after having spend years using one type of action, it can get very frustrating. This is not an experience unique to me. It is something I see people struggle with day in and day out.

Frankly, I think you guys just argue to argue. You don't actually read the post. You just scan it for something to complain about.

zfields
04-27-2012, 5:01 PM
It is about muscle memory.

I blame this on why I cant shoot my XD for s*** anymore. To much trigger time on a smooth DA, and a crisp SA.

Iknownot
04-27-2012, 5:02 PM
Tactical, You are honestly telling me people who are used to Da/SA have issues with remembering not to decock a 1911 they have just loaded which would require using the trigger, something they would never do on a DA/SA? I could see forgetting to flip the saftey off. But come on.

You are making up stories in your advocacy of SA.

zfields
04-27-2012, 5:05 PM
Tactical, You are honestly telling me people who are used to Da/SA have issues with remembering not to decock a 1911 they have just loaded which would require using the trigger, something they would never do on a DA/SA? I could see forgetting to flip the saftey off. But come on.

You are making up stories in your advocacy of SA.

He's not advocating SA, he's saying there is a large difference in how you shoot both, either in competition or tactical course settings.

Iknownot
04-27-2012, 5:09 PM
Read his post history. He's advocating SA.

paul0660
04-27-2012, 5:11 PM
Frankly, I think you guys just argue to argue. You don't actually read the post. You just scan it for something to complain about.

Unless we agree with you. Old road gone over many times. Whatever one's experience or level of training, hyperbole is obvious and demeaning. And, implicitly, a lie fabricated to support a point.

Hey OP, try some guns out, there are hundreds out there. Sig vs. BHP isn't even apples and oranges, it's apples and celery root.

Imo. And yes I do like celery root. Weird but good. I got Bok Choy 99 times before I bought the right thing, but the celery root is very good.

paul0660
04-27-2012, 5:12 PM
He's not advocating SA,

Oh GOD.

InGrAM
04-27-2012, 5:21 PM
What is the gun for? HD, range, plinker, conversation piece?

Both pistols would be great for any of the above ^ listed.

I own a HP and I have shot many p-series Sigs, both are very reliable platforms. Don't get too caught up in the whole "it is hard to master a DA/SA trigger" debate. It is easy to master a trigger system and the more trigger systems you have the better.

If you are going to go with the HP spend a little more and get the one with adjustable sights, it is gorgeous.

jyo
04-27-2012, 5:41 PM
SIGs are fine pistols - BUT - EVERYBODY should have at least one Hi Power!!

Go Navy
04-27-2012, 6:58 PM
I have a Sig P226 in stainless and it is the most accurate semi auto 9mm (in my hands) I've ever shot or owned. I ran the hell out of it last year in a two day action pistol class and it was flawless. I think if I had to bug out, it would go with me (or maybe my Glock 17 Gen 4, or maybe both). If you buy a P226, you will not be disappointed.

I'm used to DA/SA decockers and that's what I prefer. Personal preference and I'm not law enforcement.

RudyCakes
04-27-2012, 7:23 PM
I own a Sig P226. Wish I had a CZ or a Hi Power.

Jeeper
04-28-2012, 7:07 AM
Not to be mean, but If you have to ask; get the Sig.

It's like comparing the Garand to the AR15. Which one's better?

Or a cherry'd out 1957 Chevy to a 2010 Corvette. Which ones better?

The Sig is modern and easier to use safely with less "training". Points well, reliable as hell and accurate. A precise decocker. It's a absolute fine machine. I'll bet my life on it.

The BHP is a flawless steel masterpiece. Historical art and function. Looks amazing, Feels excellent, points true.

I own both. I completely trust the 226. But I love my Browning just a bit more.

BHPFan
04-28-2012, 7:36 AM
To the OP, my predicament is the following:
case 1: If I am gonna pay for either a stock box P226 or BHP for the same price, I will get the P226.

case 2: If I am gonna pay for either a custom P226 or a custom BHP, I will take the BHP.

case 3: If they ask me to pick either a P226 or a BHP for free, I'll take the BHP.

BHP's are more rare and ultraexpensive IMO.

In the end, it's your money.

ap3572001
04-28-2012, 8:28 AM
I have a German (mid 90's) P226 and two (C -Series and T-Series 1960's Brownings.)

You are looking to compare two GREAT 9mm pistols.

They are very different .

Browning Hi Power has a combat record not matched by ANY other pistol . Inlcuding a 1911.
It fits most hands very well. Parts and magazines are available all over the world.

Sig P226 is one the most popular combat/service 9mm handguns. VERY accurate out of the box. Parts and magazines are also all over the place. P226 SEEMS to be more reliable with JHP ammo.

orthopod
04-28-2012, 8:30 AM
Shot the bhp in 9mm at the range and liked the glock much much better... Would like to try a sig.

zfields
04-28-2012, 8:39 AM
I have a German (mid 90's) P226 and two (C -Series and T-Series 1960's Brownings.)

You are looking to compare two GREAT 9mm pistols.

They are very different .

Browning Hi Power has a combat record not matched by ANY other pistol . Inlcuding a 1911.
It fits most hands very well. Parts and magazines are available all over the world.

Sig P226 is one the most popular combat/service 9mm handguns. VERY accurate out of the box. Parts and magazines are also all over the place. P226 SEEMS to be more reliable with JHP ammo.

If your comparing to 1960's browning's, I wouldn't be surprised. They still came with the humped barrels for the most part for FMJ ammo. Get the barrel throated and you will have a lot less issues.

USM0083
04-28-2012, 8:42 AM
Tactical, You are honestly telling me people who are used to Da/SA have issues with remembering not to decock a 1911 they have just loaded which would require using the trigger, something they would never do on a DA/SA? I could see forgetting to flip the saftey off. But come on.

You are making up stories in your advocacy of SA.

The statements he has made is accurate. I'm a Federal LEO and FI and have carried a P228 for 12 years, having recently transistioned to a M&P .45. Before that my agency had revolvers. Some of the "old timers" tell stories of how hard it was to learn how to use the decock lever to lower the hammer. With the M&Ps coming online, we now see officers trying to hit a decock lever that doesn't exist on the M&P.

As has been stated, the DA/SA transition is quite hard to master. I have over 35,000 rounds through two different P228s, and I didn't completely master the DA/SA transition until the 5000 round mark. I haven't had any problems with the M&P, because I own two Glocks, and the trigger action is close enough to the M&Ps, compared to a Sig. Some of my officers that are used the long DA stroke of a Sig absoultely slap the trigger of the M&P on the first shot.

Unless the conscious mind does an action, muscle memory takes over. If I tell a student not to "ride the slide" they do fine, but if I stand back and watch, they will revert to the old bad habits unconsciously.

My first pistol was a BHP. I've trained enough to where when I pickup a gun, my hands know what to do with it in regards to manipulation and trigger pull.

Sturnovik
04-28-2012, 9:55 AM
I can't believe you guys think the high power is that different from the 226.

It could be named the 227 for all the difference there is.

IMO.

And to be fair, I'd say the same (though not AS similar) of the CZ and some other larger frame semi's I have tried. So I will admit that perhaps it is me when it comes to semi's. Though, I have run into semi's that are quite different in "feel" like the beretta 92 and obviously polymer guns, but this is all going off on a big tangent.

I stand by what I said in terms of my opinion on the high power and the 226 and in the end, trying them out and seeing which feels better is the best course of action anyway.

Are you serious? Have you held a P226 or Hi Power?
The CZ and Hi Power are alot closer, which I think you meant, but either way he was comparing Sig and Browning.


There pretty damn different, that said, I prefer the P226. But modern HiPowers can handle HP's for the most part. I've never seen one choke on them, but some older ones have issues. OP dont let people scare you away from the DA/SA platform. It's a great platform.

If you want a Hipower like design, I say go for the CZ75. Lots of parts out there and possibilities. Zfields helped me pick out a CZ75SA, I just haven't gotten around to buying it yet.

Ranger20
04-28-2012, 11:21 AM
Regardless your choice of either will net you a nice quality firearm.
I have had a few 226's and p35 hipowers.

I have a SIG p6 for my primary 9mm carry gun. So i like SIG.
That said. Of the two you're looking at i would choose the P35 HiPower. Classic reliable and its been used all over the world for the last 77 years. Ergonomics n balance for me favor it over the 226. But that is me and you need to figure out what works for you.
Best to u in your quest

jonzer77
04-28-2012, 11:44 AM
One more vote for a Hi Power.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/jonzer77/DSC00647.jpg

paintballdad
04-28-2012, 12:03 PM
Regardless your choice of either will net you a nice quality firearm.
I have had a few 226's and p35 hipowers.

I have a SIG p6 for my primary 9mm carry gun. So i like SIG.
That said. Of the two you're looking at i would choose the P35 HiPower.

LOL. I've been thinking of trading my P225 for a Hi-Power.

OP. I own a P226 and think they are great pistols but eventually would like to also own a Hi-Power. Either choice is GTG.

Ranger20
04-28-2012, 1:58 PM
LOL. I've been thinking of trading my P225 for a Hi-Power.

OP. I own a P226 and think they are great pistols but eventually would like to also own a Hi-Power. Either choice is GTG.

Browning p35 Would be A good choice Too. Ive. Had a few 226s and p35s.
The p6 single stack 10/99 vintage works well. For me. Keep your 225 they are not easily found anymore.

paintballdad
04-28-2012, 3:28 PM
^My P225 is Aug 2010 vintage, ha ha. SIGs are a great DA/SA platform, i have 4. But after a while you want to try others. The Hi-Power and CZ-75 are high on my list of must haves.
OP, either one would be a good choice but eventually i think you'll end up with both.

jessegpresley
04-28-2012, 3:55 PM
DA/SA guns are lame and going the way of the dinosaur. Sig quality is being run into the ground by the current CEO. Browning Hi-Power.

jfa25
04-28-2012, 8:48 PM
Having owned both a Sig and a HP can honestly say you'll be happy either way you go since both are great guns. For me, the slight nod goes to the HP. Remove the mag disconnect and swap out the chunky wood grips and IMO you'll have close to a near perfect gun.

Sunday
04-28-2012, 8:52 PM
I would go with S@W M@P or XD or Glock . I never have liked Sigs especially with the present CEO running the corp "he is the same CEO that lowered the quality of Kimber."

gunafficionado
04-28-2012, 9:23 PM
SIG P226 first BHP second or whichever my local ffl has in stock ;)

reddot15
05-02-2012, 11:19 AM
Thanks all for your help, i just order a Sig P226 and its on the way.

InGrAM
05-02-2012, 12:03 PM
^ good choice. But then again, you really couldn't go wrong with either. :thumbsup:

primeform
05-02-2012, 5:09 PM
2 pages and no one has told him to buy a glock? shame on you people.

tacticalcity
05-02-2012, 5:33 PM
He bought a gun already. So now we say, "Good for you, enjoy the heck out of it! Now go take a course and be safe."

Can't buy anything here
05-02-2012, 5:33 PM
If you have to ask, the Browning is probably not for you...:)

jfa25
05-02-2012, 6:57 PM
(shaking fist in air) why!!!!!!!!!.... just playin. Have fun with your Sig!

tbc
05-02-2012, 7:01 PM
Thanks all for your help, i just order a Sig P226 and its on the way.

So when are you getting the Browning? :D


Sent from IPhone