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joe321
04-26-2012, 12:42 PM
I've been wondering this for a while. Sigs, Kimbers, HK, they're like a grand, and that's just for the entry level model. There are cars that you can get for just over 10K. And, a car is like a 1000 times more complex than any handgun.

Why do they cost so much?

NorCalK9.com
04-26-2012, 12:48 PM
Lol the world may never know. But I too have wondered this question many of times.

CalTeacher
04-26-2012, 12:50 PM
I've been wondering this for a while. Sigs, Kimbers, HK, they're like a grand, and that's just for the entry level model. There are cars that you can get for just over 10K. And, a car is like a 1000 times more complex than any handgun.

Why do they cost so much?

Short answer: demand.

Longer answer: People will pay that sum for that particular product because they feel that it is worth it. Why does a car A that does the same thing as car B cost 30K more? Because people feel that the name on the car is worth paying for. Do you get more quality with the money? Sometimes.

shooting4life
04-26-2012, 12:57 PM
Short answer: HK are overpriced and fan boys buy them.

littlejake
04-26-2012, 12:57 PM
My first handgun was a Colt Cobra bought new in 1969 for $98. Sounds like a great price!
But, In 1969 if you made $1000 per month you were doing quite well.

In 1965, as an E1 in the USAF, pay was $77 per month; and you got your first stripe at the end of basic; and pay went to $82 per month for an E2 Airman. Gasoline was 23.9 cents per gallon with 7 cents state tax and 4 cents federal tax.

You need to make about $100k to have the same standard of living -- so, a $1000 handgun is not out of line.

It's all about the value of your money -- and every day it becomes worth less.

The War Wagon
04-26-2012, 12:58 PM
Because they're the LAST American-made product, that HASN'T required a bailout? :o

drdarrin@sbcglobal.net
04-26-2012, 1:00 PM
My first handgun was a Colt Cobra bought new in 1969 for $98. Sounds like a great price!
But, In 1969 if you made $1000 per month you were doing quite well.

In 1965, as an E1 in the USAF, pay was $77 per month; and you got your first stripe at the end of basic; and pay went to $82 per month for an E2 Airman. Gasoline was 23.9 cents per gallon with 7 cents state tax and 4 cents federal tax.

You need to make about $100k to have the same standard of living -- so, a $1000 handgun is not out of line.

It's all about the value of your money -- and every day it becomes worth less.

What he said!!!!

zfields
04-26-2012, 1:02 PM
Because they're the LAST American-made product, that HASN'T required a bailout? :o

last I checked, HK wasnt US made.

Solidux
04-26-2012, 1:03 PM
Because they're the LAST American-made product, that HASN'T required a bailout? :o

Times are changing. This will change soon. In fact, its already changing.

BretByron
04-26-2012, 1:04 PM
A gun that you used to be able to buy w/ a chunk of silver can still be bought w/ that same chunk of silver.



Check the value of your dollars.

Fadedline
04-26-2012, 1:07 PM
Guns aren't that bad. Feeding them is whats expensive.

The War Wagon
04-26-2012, 1:10 PM
last I checked, HK wasnt US made.

They're the LAST gun manufacturer left on the planet!!! :eek: Wow... times are getting worse than I realized!!! :o


+2 on the value of money, vs. silver & gold!

tatso7
04-26-2012, 1:10 PM
I've been wondering this for a while. Sigs, Kimbers, HK, they're like a grand, and that's just for the entry level model. There are cars that you can get for just over 10K. And, a car is like a 1000 times more complex than any handgun.

Why do they cost so much?

Try Archery! A decent compound bow will cost you between $800 to $1100 and thats just the bow. You add the sight, dampeners and stabilizer, arrow rest and mechanical release gets you another $400-$700. Complete arrows are between $ 120 to $250 a dozen. Custom strings between $100 to $130. Manufacturer jack up the price of their product and people keep buying them thinking the higher the price the better quality.

keenkeen
04-26-2012, 1:12 PM
I've been wondering this for a while. Sigs, Kimbers, HK, they're like a grand, and that's just for the entry level model. There are cars that you can get for just over 10K. And, a car is like a 1000 times more complex than any handgun.

Why do they cost so much?

If you you are paying $1000 for an entry level Kimber, Sig, or HK your post title should read:

"Why do I pay too much for things? Please teach me how to shop."

drkphibr
04-26-2012, 1:14 PM
If you think hand guns are expensive, try buying a high end paintball gun....especially if you have kids and want to do a family thing regularly (yeah, you can buy a $200 paintball gun, but the nice ones are >$1,000 if you really get into the sport)...

zfields
04-26-2012, 1:15 PM
They're the LAST gun manufacturer left on the planet!!! :eek: Wow... times are getting worse than I realized!!! :o


+2 on the value of money, vs. silver & gold!

You made a generalized comment, referring to the OP's list. Hell, there are more foreign firearm manufactures selling in the US then US manufactures.

teflondog
04-26-2012, 1:16 PM
Supply and demand are what drive market price. That applies to everything and not just firearms. I can't wait to see how high gas prices go up this year.

Icypu
04-26-2012, 1:16 PM
Price is also dependent on shortage. Manufacturers build a good reputation. For example an FNP is half the price of a HK P2000, but the HK is not twice as good.

GMANtt
04-26-2012, 1:21 PM
If you you are paying $1000 for an entry level Kimber, Sig, or HK your post title should read:

"Why do I pay too much for things? Please teach me how to shop."

How much are HKs, and Sigs for you? Sig P2022 doesn't count.

VictorFranko
04-26-2012, 1:22 PM
Guns are expensive because life is cheap.

Oldnoob
04-26-2012, 1:29 PM
If you thing of how long that 1k worth of gun will serve you than compare to that 10k worth of car. I have a 1955 s&w target masterpiece that still run on its original parts(except the grip).
You would be happy your $10k car last you over 5 years.

Also, if you thing guns are expensive. You are not shooting enought. My ammo cost easily 5 times more than what I spend on gun purchase per year.

keenkeen
04-26-2012, 1:31 PM
How much are HKs, and Sigs for you? Sig P2022 doesn't count.

SIG, Kimber and H&K all have entry level models for well under $1000.

GunHo
04-26-2012, 1:47 PM
I've been wondering this for a while. Sigs, Kimbers, HK, they're like a grand, and that's just for the entry level model. There are cars that you can get for just over 10K. And, a car is like a 1000 times more complex than any handgun.

Why do they cost so much?

Comparing guns with cars is a bad analogy. Most gun owners see their guns as jewelry; at least I do. Here is a better way to look at it; women buy purses, men buy guns. Oh, and let me add; some purses are well over $1K.

drifter2be
04-26-2012, 1:48 PM
What is it with people complaining about costs recently? Yesterday it was some turd complaining about a bullet button costing $20-30 in the rifle section. If you can't afford to drop some money then firearms are not a hobby to get into.

As to directly respond to the OP, you are talking about higher-end gun manufacturers and comparing them to cheap, low-end korean built cars. By that merit, a cheap low end gun like a Hi-point can be had for $150. Now compare the $1000 kimber to the cost of a $50000 sports car...because that is more of a direct comparison. You get what you pay for, if you want luxury it will cost you. Do you really think it costs a lot more for Lincoln to make the MKS than it cost Ford to make the Taurus, when they are pretty much the exact same car? Then why does a base model Taurus cost $26K and a base model MKS cost $42K? You pay for the name. (Trust me, I worked for Ford, and they are the SAME car the MKS is slightly dressed up with a little more leather and chrome, but not $16K worth of it)

joe321
04-26-2012, 1:53 PM
Comparing guns with cars is a bad analogy. Most gun owners see their guns as jewelry; at least I do. Here is a better way to look at it; women buy purses, men buy guns. Oh, and let me add; some purses are well over $1K.

That's actually the perfect analogy. Or maybe even a Rolex watch as opposed to a Timex.

SoCalSig1911
04-26-2012, 1:55 PM
Comparing guns with cars is a bad analogy. Most gun owners see their guns as jewelry; at least I do. Here is a better way to look at it; women buy purses, men buy guns. Oh, and let me add; some purses are well over $1K.

Yeah buddy! For the Louis V i bought the girl i could be dual wielding twin Beretta 92's! LOL All good though, easy come easy go, there will always be more money out there, if you can make it ;)

beretta929mm
04-26-2012, 2:02 PM
Raw material
Equipment
Labor

All these cost money.

Modern guns( not TT-33 or AK variants) made in China cost hudrend of dollars to manufacture.

Don't be surprised if a German gun costs over a grand:D

hornswaggled
04-26-2012, 2:14 PM
They are expensive but they also hold their value really damm well for a hunk of metal and plastic. Some even appreciate in value. Almost none drop significantly in value unless you leave it in a tank of salt water. A $10k car on the other hand will be sure to be worth $1000 after a few years of ownership.

Colt-45
04-26-2012, 2:16 PM
You can thank unions for overpriced guns or guns manufactured outside the country.

GunHo
04-26-2012, 2:17 PM
Yeah buddy! For the Louis V i bought the girl i could be dual wielding twin Beretta 92's! LOL All good though, easy come easy go, there will always be more money out there, if you can make it ;)

I hear you man. My last girl bought an Louis V for $1.5K... for a freakin purse? are you kidding me? all the thing does is carry crap. why? My AR with a nice scope was $1.5K.

JeremyS
04-26-2012, 2:24 PM
...a cheap low end gun like a Hi-point can be had for $150...
Agreed. There's a range in guns just like in cars and you can get guns that are very inexpensive. By all accounts, a hi-point is actually a fairly reliable gun for most people. Mechanically, they seem to work.

I would have a very hard time spending only $150 on a new gun because all of the taxes and background check/DROS fees, etc, become a massive expense in comparison. Spending $75 in fees on a $700 gun isn't that painful for me, but spending $75 in fees on a $150 gun would just suck. Mentally, I'm not sure I could force myself to do it :p

In most cases I think the high end manufacturers aren't producing enough volume and there isn't enough competition to bring the prices way down. If I had a CNC mill I could make myself a top quality 1911 and it wouldn't cost very much. But, if I were selling those, the market is big enough and the supply of custom guns is small enough that I could probably demand a very high price and sell guns at that price. High volume manufacturers like Taurus have low prices. Even FN, which has a reputation for top quality, has high-volume models like the FNP that are sold at extremely competitive prices (you can find 'em for $400-ish)



BUT... some gun prices don't really make sense to me. Seemingly mechanically simple things like an M1A cost WAY more than I feel they should. Many bolt action rifles cost WAY more than I feel they should. Let's not even get into guns like over/under shotguns. I don't really think pistols are nearly as out of line in pricing as bolt actions and O/U's are.

hornswaggled
04-26-2012, 2:24 PM
I hear you man. My last girl bought an Louis V for $1.5K... for a freakin purse? are you kidding me? all the thing does is carry crap. why? My AR with a nice scope was $1.5K.

Same here man. Far be it from me to tell my gf that a LV purse is basically vulcanized rubber (aka car tire) with logos printed all over it. ARs on the other hand kill terrorists.

monk
04-26-2012, 2:29 PM
Same here man. Far be it from me to tell my gf that a LV purse is basically vulcanized rubber (aka car tire) with logos printed all over it. ARs on the other hand kill terrorists.

They also kill kittens. We need more laws to protect kittens.

JollyJuan
04-26-2012, 2:30 PM
Because guns are Precious metals. and the Dollar is losing it's purchasing power. Thank the Fed. Reserve. :chris:

jboTeS9Okak

fanof1911forlife
04-26-2012, 2:32 PM
I agree with everyone's reasoning here and would like to add one more for consideration.....SOLAR FLARES! Either that or blame it on Al Gore. That SOB blames everything on global warming so I'm blaming everything on him.

Arkangel
04-26-2012, 2:34 PM
If you think hand guns are expensive, try buying a high end paintball gun....especially if you have kids and want to do a family thing regularly (yeah, you can buy a $200 paintball gun, but the nice ones are >$1,000 if you really get into the sport)...

+1

I played for 7 years. My marker was over 1k with the custom mods. That didn't include the air system, the hopper or the barrel system. Plus the googles or the uniform. Then factor in the paint, I was lucky and when I had to pay for paint I got it for $40 a case, when most people paid double.

The best part was every year new models of EVERYTHING came out, so you bought it all over again.

So a $900 HK just doesn't surprise me.

On the bright side you can get a high point for $150.

civilsnake
04-26-2012, 2:39 PM
Because (for the most part) guns aren't made by robots yet. Labor is not cheap in most of the countries producing the firearms you want to buy. And guns aren't typically built at the quantity levels that would make robots feasible. Also, like all things, the more you buy, there better the price. I'm sure the US Gov is not paying $1200 for a Colt M4.

keenkeen
04-26-2012, 2:57 PM
I would have a very hard time spending only $150 on a new gun because all of the taxes and background check/DROS fees, etc, become a massive expense in comparison. Spending $75 in fees on a $700 gun isn't that painful for me, but spending $75 in fees on a $150 gun would just suck. Mentally, I'm not sure I could force myself to do it :p



I kind of understand what you are saying here... but then again maybe I am missing something.

DROS is $25 for a $150 gun and $25 for a $1500 gun...So, yah it's a larger % on the cheaper gun but still not really significant. Plus, you can't avoid it so it is just a sunk cost of the gun purchase.

Tax is a static % based on the sale price of the gun...for example $12 bucks or so for the $150 gun and $120 bucks or so for the $1500 gun.

Maybe I am missing something...but if you find a gun you want for $150 why let the DROS cost stop you?

Lead Waster
04-26-2012, 3:07 PM
Meanwhile a decent laptop costs $500? The technology of a laptop, and the complexity of manufacturing (You can't make a CPU without a billion dollar clean plant). A 1911 was makeable 100 years ago with tools and technology of that time.

I think in reality, guns sell for $1000 because people will pay it. Would you pay $1000 for a Glock? No? OK, how about $800? No? How about $600? Maybe? ALright then, $550? Yes? OK, that's what we'll sell them for then. Oh how about if you join GSSF, we'll sell you two at $450? Deal? OK! YOu want to pay $300? Nah, I'll sell it to Bob, he'll pay $550.

ap430
04-26-2012, 3:09 PM
Guns are not that expensive that and if you take care of them you can resell them for closer then what you paid for it. As long as you take care of it that is.

Glocks can be had for about 550 without any discounts... I see many glocks sell used for about 500 or so. Cars depreciate a lot more quicker...

you will spend more money ammo in the long run then the actual cost of a gun.

alfred1222
04-26-2012, 3:10 PM
Guns arent expensive, its your money thats worthless :D

tacticalcity
04-26-2012, 3:16 PM
Gun manufcaturers are burdened without a lot of expenses in a way most other businesses are not. Not only are they constantly bombarded by law suits by civilians, they also have to keep a full time staff of lawyers to combat politically motivated organizations and regulatory agencies. Add to that quality control, research and developement, manufacturering, importation expenses, labor costs (much higher here in the US than most other countries), and on and on. The list of expenses is seemingly endless. It's not like they don't have everybody and their brother trying to put them out of businesses. Frankly, posts like this are "biting the hand that feeds you." Capitalism is a good thing. *****ing about it is as un-American as supporting gun bans.

JeremyS
04-26-2012, 3:18 PM
I kind of understand what you are saying here... but then again maybe I am missing something.

DROS is $25 for a $150 gun and $25 for a $1500 gun...So, yah it's a larger % on the cheaper gun but still not really significant. Plus, you can't avoid it so it is just a sunk cost of the gun purchase.

Tax is a static % based on the sale price of the gun...for example $12 bucks or so for the $150 gun and $120 bucks or so for the $1500 gun.

Maybe I am missing something...but if you find a gun you want for $150 why let the DROS cost stop you?
I guess the last few guns I got were out-of-state transfers so it was $75 for that pleasure (not gun price dependent) and, until recently, no sales tax.

...just an aside anyway. Doesn't actually have anything to do with why guns cost "so much." To sum it up a just a couple sentences, I'd say most of it is due to manufacturers being at max capacity and sales keeping up with or exceeding their max capacity. They'll charge as much as they can as long as they're selling what they can make.

...and high liability...

Mikeb
04-26-2012, 3:30 PM
Make one and tell me how much you want for it. Oh yeah you have to jump through some hoops before you can make one.
Mike

keenkeen
04-26-2012, 3:33 PM
I guess the last few guns I got were out-of-state transfers so it was $75 for that pleasure (not gun price dependent) and, until recently, no sales tax.

...just an aside anyway. Doesn't actually have anything to do with why guns cost "so much." To sum it up a just a couple sentences, I'd say most of it is due to manufacturers being at max capacity and sales keeping up with or exceeding their max capacity. They'll charge as much as they can as long as they're selling what they can make.

...and high liability...

I get what you are saying now...

Out of state transfers and maybe even SSE costs can make it pretty hard to justify a buying a lower end gun. If you are dropping $75 on a transfer and maybe another $100 on SSE it makes you think long and hard about ordering that Umarex 22 Colt Rail Gun for $400 bucks...

Cause it going to be $600 plus to get out the door.

:chris:

NorCalK9.com
04-26-2012, 3:34 PM
Its NoBammers fault! Remember that in november lol

himurax13
04-26-2012, 3:36 PM
Its not that guns are expensive. Its that your money isn't worth that much. ;)

Seriously though, match fees, ammo, and accessories cost even more.

SoCalSig1911
04-26-2012, 3:36 PM
Its NoBammers fault! Remember that in november lol

You can't blame a puppet for too much.. It's much more deep seeded than we know..

drkphibr
04-26-2012, 3:40 PM
+1

I played for 7 years. My marker was over 1k with the custom mods. That didn't include the air system, the hopper or the barrel system. Plus the googles or the uniform. Then factor in the paint, I was lucky and when I had to pay for paint I got it for $40 a case, when most people paid double.

The best part was every year new models of EVERYTHING came out, so you bought it all over again.

So a $900 HK just doesn't surprise me.

On the bright side you can get a high point for $150.

Totally agree. Compared to paintball, ALL things shooting related are MUCH less expensive (especially when you have kids). Nothing worse than spending +$1,000 on a marker only to have it drop 50% in value when the new model is introduced EVERY year. At least firearms hold (and hopefully increase) value.

MXRider
04-26-2012, 3:44 PM
last I checked, HK wasnt US made.

Might want to check again, H&K has a few US factories and plenty of pistols and rifles are made here, though not all.

loosewreck
04-26-2012, 3:56 PM
Y'know, except maybe my separately purchased home assembled ARs, I haven't owned a single gun that has depreciated in value. I've had a few that actually doubled in value in the past 7 years. Everything took a dramatic jump up around W's second term and of coarse at the end of it:facepalm:

SilverTauron
04-26-2012, 4:37 PM
Guns are expensive ?


HAHAHAHAHAHAH.

Some years ago I got involved in modifying cars. I like to modify things on my car which improve its performance and appearance, despite my 10 year old GM sedan not being all that exciting in its stock state. Just for perspective, a lowering kit for a GM N-platform car runs about $2000, once you get done with the labor, springs, shocks, bushings, strut boots.

Wheels? That's $1500 please.

New GM ram air hood?
$750....and then you gotta paint the thing. Add $1000 in matching paint and labor. Once all those parts are added, you cant very well lose your shiny lowered ride to the impound yard .$450 please for that Valentine 1 Radar detector.

And those are numbers for an American built car. If we look at a German car, just changing a window regulator costs more than an HK P30 :eek:

I made a personal decision to spend my extra money on guns before things change politically where I cant in the future-I doubt there's gonna be an assault turbo ban anytime soon-and ive spent less on all the guns ive ever bought and traded than mods for my ancient car. Unlike my car, or my computer, or nearly every other material possession I have right now, my guns will still work in 20 years.

In that respect a firearm is one of the last true investments left. Even if the currency collapses entirely and rule of law becomes a wistful memory, a firearm still retains value!

JNunez23
04-26-2012, 4:58 PM
Because ONLY ballers buy em' lol

fullspeed1
04-26-2012, 5:07 PM
$h!t, My brand new MacBook was expensive. Guns have a better resale value that cars IMO. Reloading also balances out the costs.....

MadMax
04-26-2012, 5:12 PM
Everything is expensive!

fullspeed1
04-26-2012, 5:13 PM
Come to think of it, Firearms/Shooting are on the cheaper end of my hobby cost spectrum. I've got a dirtbike that cost more then all my firearms put together, And that's not including my mountain bike and fly fishing equipment either. At least my firearms will most likely outlive me, And can be given to my children.

BretByron
04-26-2012, 5:35 PM
24Oz. of Silver in 2001 = $99.00 & (1) SKS in 2001 = $99.00

24Oz. Silver in 2012 = $720.00 & (2) SKS's in 2012 = $ 700.00


Guns are actually cheaper then they used to be.

USAbodypilot
04-26-2012, 6:02 PM
Why do they cost so much?

...because they are awesome - everything fun costs lot's of money.

tatso7
04-26-2012, 6:10 PM
Theirs always the Mosin Nagant as an option. Real cheap gun, cheap surplus ammo, TONS of fun to shoot!

tbc
04-26-2012, 6:21 PM
Supply and demand.

Lots of people are willing to buy these "expensive" guns. And manufacturers are not keeping up with the demand. So why not!


Sent from IPhone

Cato
04-26-2012, 7:54 PM
Guns that are near or over 1K are just all label; of course that does't mean they aren't fine products as in the Pre Obama Sigs.

I suppose many of us assume a gun is good if it's expensive as in HKs.

Many guns are made in small numbers too.

I wonder how much it costs to make a gun?

SilverTauron
04-26-2012, 8:05 PM
Guns that are near or over 1K are just all label; of course that does't mean they aren't fine products as in the Pre Obama Sigs.

I suppose many of us assume a gun is good if it's expensive as in HKs.

Many guns are made in small numbers too.

I wonder how much it costs to make a gun?

"Expensive" can be a very variable definition.One guy's idea of "no way in h**l" can be someone else's "ill take it!" as gun prices vary across the nation. A pistol which sells in South Dakota for $499 might go for $600 in Illinois.I won't use California for an example, as roster vs non-roster status can make a difference in selling prices of certain firearms.By comparison, a brand new Chevy Corvette won't change much in list price based on which state one buys it at.

As to expensive hobbies, shooting doesn't compare to some . Even a Nighthawk Custom 1911 runs 'only' 3000 bucks. Thats a lot for a single pistol, but try buying a brand new vehicle supercharger kit for only $3K. On some cars that won't even buy you the base hardware, to say nothing of tuning or installation. My Nitrous kit ran me $500 professionally installed, and I got a screaming bargain at that price.Market value for what I paid on that was closer to $800. I rather doubt ill be handing my car down to my grand-kids, either. You know something's changed in your mind when you see some flashy liberal breaking out a MacBook air and think " how many Springfield 1911's can I get for that?"

RobinGoodfellow
04-26-2012, 8:19 PM
A gun that you used to be able to buy w/ a chunk of silver can still be bought w/ that same chunk of silver.

Check the value of your dollars.

This is right on. In the 19th century you could by a NIB (did they come in boxes back then?) Colt for a double eagle. A double eagle was a US coin with a face value of $20--and containing one ounce of gold. Today that same ounce of gold is worth 1660 US dollars.

It is the same reason that gas prices are so high, but 2 refineries just closed because they can't make a profit.

Yugo
04-26-2012, 8:26 PM
because bullet buttons are so cheap :p

penguinofsleep
04-26-2012, 8:49 PM
liability costs yes. but i think guns are way overpriced simply b/c they can be.

i think of this, anyone in the know please correct me if im wrong:
compare guns to various power tools, lets say a power drill. most power tools wont cost more than say 400 for a top of the line model. manufacturing and r&d are about the same in terms of costs. both use very simple and tried/true technology operating on extremely basic principles that can be picked up in high school physics (the materials and manufacturing processes of modern tools not so much but it applies equally to both). if we just talk about buying raw materials (b/c the material scientist/s who came up with the exact metal blend/composition or polymer probably doesn't work at that particular company w/ a few exceptions such as magpul), neither one costs more than $20... unless of course you want to take whatever custom grips/materials on to it. im sure people out there want to sue both types of companies for w/e reasons (although its probably to a less extent w/e tools b/c there is little/no potential political profit). and really, not THAT much r&d goes into either despite what marketing says. ie look at the computer you are access this website with and compare it to the r&d in your gun. imo the major difference is firearms manufacturers know some people don't mind paying $4k for the semi custom 1911 or even $1k for a "nice" production 1911, but i cant imagine anyone coming out with a $4k power drill.

Spirit 1
04-26-2012, 10:33 PM
A large part of what you pay for in a quality gun is for precision machinery and tooling to produce it. For CA, handguns mfgr's have to offset insane costs of 'Safety' testing. Premium raw materials fetch premium prices in a metal gun. That said, several mfgr's overcharge based on their reputation, which is their price, and long lines of people are ready to pony up ridiculous money just for bragging rights. Me, I prefer CZ for premium quality materials and mfg. expertise, extremely tight tolerances where necessary, famous accuracy, highest levels of dependability through product torture testing, and a reliable sidearm I don't have to think twice about trusting, all at a very reasonable price.

huckberry668
04-26-2012, 10:47 PM
I've been wondering this for a while. Sigs, Kimbers, HK, they're like a grand, and that's just for the entry level model. There are cars that you can get for just over 10K. And, a car is like a 1000 times more complex than any handgun.

Why do they cost so much?

Taxes, mark-up and lawyers.

natrab
04-26-2012, 11:07 PM
Even the most expensive guns don't compare with their equivalents in other areas. Find me an extremely expensive production or even custom gun that compares percentage wise with a comparable car or watch and guns tend to be functionally cheap.

I have an HK USP 45 worth about $780 new (psst, that's what they actually cost outside of cali). I also have a Springfield Professional worth about $2700 new. Both do pretty much the same thing, only the Springer costs a bit over 3 times as much.

I have a Timex watch I wear to the gym that cost me $50. It works great and keeps time. I have an Omega that cost me $2700 that I wear at work and it does the exact same thing. Then I have a Panerai that ran about $7000 that I wear when I go out. All of them will keep time to the extent I need, only the most expensive costs 140 times the cheapest.

Call a Glock the Timex and say a Jardine Custom 1911 as the Panerai, and the ratio is nowhere near the same.

The profit margin on guns is fairly slim compared to the markup you see on a lot of products out there, so I have never gotten worked up over what I have paid for a gun.

Plus I have spent more money on ammo over the years than all my guns combined, and I own a lot of guns.

huckberry668
04-26-2012, 11:28 PM
Really? markup isn't much? in 1997 a Colt Gold Cup NM factory to wholesale cost $680, wholesale to dealer was $880 and it retailed for $1000. Add high demand and low supply and you get skinned several times.

U.S. military paid $260 (or about) for a Beretta 92 (or M9) in 1987 when it retailed for$650.

Federal Excise tax on guns and ammo is 10 to 11% that's before the wholesaler gets the shipment from factory. remember all the heavy trigger pull from the liability laws/lawyers? that's why guns are expensive.

Merc1138
04-26-2012, 11:48 PM
Even the most expensive guns don't compare with their equivalents in other areas. Find me an extremely expensive production or even custom gun that compares percentage wise with a comparable car or watch and guns tend to be functionally cheap.

I have an HK USP 45 worth about $780 new (psst, that's what they actually cost outside of cali). I also have a Springfield Professional worth about $2700 new. Both do pretty much the same thing, only the Springer costs a bit over 3 times as much.

I have a Timex watch I wear to the gym that cost me $50. It works great and keeps time. I have an Omega that cost me $2700 that I wear at work and it does the exact same thing. Then I have a Panerai that ran about $7000 that I wear when I go out. All of them will keep time to the extent I need, only the most expensive costs 140 times the cheapest.

Call a Glock the Timex and say a Jardine Custom 1911 as the Panerai, and the ratio is nowhere near the same.

The profit margin on guns is fairly slim compared to the markup you see on a lot of products out there, so I have never gotten worked up over what I have paid for a gun.

Plus I have spent more money on ammo over the years than all my guns combined, and I own a lot of guns.

Bingo. Guns tend to be cheap when you compare an average $500 gun to a high end $3000 gun, and try to apply the same cost difference to many other things. Watches, cars, houses, jackets, glasses, shoes, computers, even phones tend to have higher cost differences from low end to high end when compared to most guns.

That being said, there are also $100,000 titanium ARs, $80,000 O/U shotguns, $10,000 custom 1911s, etc.

The OP mentioned an entry level Sig, HK, or Kimber being $1000... try more like $700-$800. An "entry level car" is $15,000 as well, but who would compare the cost scale of a Kia to a Bugatti? It costs over 110 times as much, and a new set of tires runs $25,000 not to mention the $70,000 service charge to get the tires changed in France. So just getting a new set of tires is going to run you 6.3 base model Kia Fortes. Is a $3,000 gun really so expensive by comparison? Nope.

tacticalcity
04-26-2012, 11:56 PM
Bingo. Guns tend to be cheap when you compare an average $500 gun to a high end $3000 gun, and try to apply the same cost difference to many other things. Watches, cars, houses, jackets, glasses, shoes, computers, even phones tend to have higher cost differences from low end to high end when compared to most guns.

That being said, there are also $100,000 titanium ARs, $80,000 O/U shotguns, $10,000 custom 1911s, etc.

The OP mentioned an entry level Sig, HK, or Kimber being $1000... try more like $700-$800. An "entry level car" is $15,000 as well, but who would compare the cost scale of a Kia to a Bugatti? It costs over 110 times as much, and a new set of tires runs $25,000 not to mention the $70,000 service charge to get the tires changed in France. So just getting a new set of tires is going to run you 6.3 base model Kia Fortes. Is a $3,000 gun really so expensive by comparison? Nope.

Merc, we found a subject we agree on. Time to pop the bubbly. ;)

natrab
04-26-2012, 11:59 PM
Really? markup isn't much? in 1997 a Colt Gold Cup NM factory to wholesale cost $680, wholesale to dealer was $880 and it retailed for $1000. Add high demand and low supply and you get skinned several times.

U.S. military paid $260 (or about) for a Beretta 92 (or M9) in 1987 when it retailed for$650.

Federal Excise tax on guns and ammo is 10 to 11% that's before the wholesaler gets the shipment from factory. remember all the heavy trigger pull from the liability laws/lawyers? that's why guns are expensive.

What do you think the wholesale to retail difference is on most things made in china or day to day items made of plastic?

I work in the medical industry where we sell you a 15 cent piece of plastic for $150.

Merc1138
04-27-2012, 12:16 AM
Merc, we found a subject we agree on. Time to pop the bubbly. ;)

I hate champagne.

bohoki
04-27-2012, 12:23 AM
go buy a hipoint if you want cheap if you want quality you are going to have to pay for r&d and lawyers

ap430
04-27-2012, 12:49 AM
Guns is definitely one of my cheaper hobbies. Motorcycle trackdays/racing gets reallllllllllllllly expensive really quickly. plus motorcycles, parts and all that stuff doesn't retain much resale value later just like cars.

stix213
04-27-2012, 12:51 AM
As expensive as they are, many manufacturers can barely keep up with their orders at current prices.

arsilva32
04-27-2012, 3:20 AM
A gun that you used to be able to buy w/ a chunk of silver can still be bought w/ that same chunk of silver.



Check the value of your dollars.




sounds like you listen to the gold guy on KKLA ,with his 20 dollar gold coin buying a brand new suit 100 yrs ago and today lol

rogervzv
04-27-2012, 3:34 AM
Guns are not all that expensive. A good handgun can be had for under $600 -- for example Ruger SR series, S&W M&P series.

A superb handgun can be had for $600-$800 e.g. Ruger GP100, S&W 686, Beretta M9/92fs.

A great handgun can be had for $1,000-$1,500 for example Colt, Kimber 1911s, etc.

Not all that much money for something that is designed for you to trust your life to.

And a properly maintained handgun will last longer than a lifetime. Wish I could say that about laptop computers, which cost about the same and which has a service life of maybe 5 years.

Hallucinosis
04-27-2012, 4:09 AM
As so many people have pointed out, guns are not that expensive.

------------------------------------------------
Glock 17 - $550
Sig Sauer P220 Combat - $1100
------------------------------------------------
Hi-Point 9mm - $142
------------------------------------------------
Benchmade 942 pocket knife - $115
Spyderco Paramilitary 2 - $115
Chris Reeves Sebenza 21 Large - $410
------------------------------------------------
Kershaw Termor - $25
------------------------------------------------

From what I can tell, high quality things are expensive, medium quality things have a more medium price, and low quality stuff has a low price.

As far as comparing knives and guns goes, the number of parts and the degree of precision required to have a good gun far exceeds what's necessary for a knife.

451040
04-27-2012, 5:35 AM
The cost of a gun is low when compared to its value.

GMANtt
04-27-2012, 6:45 AM
Spyderco paramilitary 2 :drool:

Hopalong
04-27-2012, 7:03 AM
Although the bottom line is supply and demand

I don't think guns are a bad value at all.

They hold their value better than a car, perform longer, even a lifetime

When compared to other hobbies, and the enjoyment therein

Not a bad bang for your buck. Pun intended.

m98
04-27-2012, 7:18 AM
Short answer: HK are overpriced and fan boys buy them.

Imma have to go with this. Dont forget sig fanbois also. The fanbois are the ones that'll buy it no matter what the price even if its logically not even worth it compared to others.

mjmagee67
04-27-2012, 7:44 AM
Gun are the oldest functioning mechanical items I own. I own a Winchester 94 (30WCF) made in 1897, a Winchester 70 (30-06) made in 1954 and a Marlin 39 made in 1955. They all function perfectly. My 30-06 is my main hunting rifle and it was my Grandfather's main hunting rifle(mom's side). My 30WFC was my Great Grandfathers (dads side) hunting rifle then my Grandfather used it to hunt, and now it is mine. While I don't hunt with that rifle it shoots just fine. The Marlin 39 was my Grandmothers gun and the first gun I ever shot as a kid, it has had 1000"s and 1000's and 1000's of rounds through it and it works better than any new lever-action 22 I have ever shot. Good quality guns will last several life times. Personally I like my guns made out of metal, preferably steel, steel is real.

sharxbyte
04-27-2012, 7:51 AM
It's a trade off for me... I choose to build my gun in pieces because the whole rifle would have been way too much to drop at once. It's finally almost complete, but I've been working on it since December and haven't gotten to shoot it yet.

Habid
04-27-2012, 8:03 PM
Try Archery! A decent compound bow will cost you between $800 to $1100 and thats just the bow. You add the sight, dampeners and stabilizer, arrow rest and mechanical release gets you another $400-$700. Complete arrows are between $ 120 to $250 a dozen. Custom strings between $100 to $130. Manufacturer jack up the price of their product and people keep buying them thinking the higher the price the better quality.


(I think this is very true especially the last sentence.)

Red Devil
04-28-2012, 10:55 AM
NOT havin' one when you really, and I mean absolutely positively, have to have one...?

That can be Extremely expensive.


That $500 for a Glock 23...? Probably wouldn't even cover the deductible... or the Co-Pay. Much less a funeral.


Gripe not what your glockstore can do for you... :D

CessnaDriver
04-28-2012, 10:57 AM
I'll just let myself think that if they weren't expensive they would be hand grenades that leave you with a stump.

LBDamned
04-28-2012, 12:25 PM
Guns are expensive because life is cheap valuable.

fixed :thumbsup:

kielbasavw
04-28-2012, 1:11 PM
its the same thing for bicycles... high end mountian bikes cost more then a used honda civic.

wurger
04-28-2012, 3:40 PM
Everything is expensive these days. I took the family to Disneyland (6 people) and it cost more than my XD9+3 mags+Serpa+100 rounds PMC 9mm.

And I have an airsoft gun that cost as much as my USP 45.

LBDamned
04-28-2012, 4:52 PM
Everything is expensive these days. I took the family to Disneyland (6 people) and it cost more than my XD9+3 mags+Serpa+100 rounds PMC 9mm.

And I have an airsoft gun that cost as much as my USP 45.

I hear ya... every time I go on vaca, or modify car, or by music equipment, etc - I always tell myself; damn - you could have bought a bunch of ammo or new scope or gun, etc... :o

Cathead_Fred
04-28-2012, 5:30 PM
I agree, guns are ridiculously high. I try to look at it the other way though. What guns can I buy that are lovely used or that are made by manufacturers that are not mainstream. You can buy surplus guns, police auctions guns, or check out Bersa!

1 SIG fan
04-28-2012, 8:29 PM
Just like gas.... Fed taxes.
10% of retail price is paid by the mfg. Then the dealer as to make his cut. Then there's legal fees as overhead. Your lucky theyre as cheap as they are....

erik_26
04-28-2012, 9:08 PM
Why do guns cost so much?

-Inflation.

-More governmental layers (permits, taxes, fees, testing).

-More liability.

-Forced governmental design standards, i.e. safeties, chamber indicators, no mag no bangÖ etc. (Mainly California).

-Demand.

-Laws of economics, meaning anything is worth only as much as someone is willing to pay for it.

-Harder for new manufactures to get into the business.


Now someone brought up, ďIf you think it is too expensive then this isnít the right hobby.Ē That is true to a point. Some have guns for their primary function, self-defense. Not all gun owners are collectors, enthusiast, hunters, competitive shooters or recreational shooters.

With that said, most that just want a gun for SD donít need to spend 1K to get a reliable gun. I am much as I hate to say this (because I donít personally care for them) Glocks are at a great price point for what you get.

Some us are very willing to pay $3500+ on a custom unique beautiful gun that goes in the safe and only comes out to get fondled and shown off to other collectors. Some of us are willing to drop $500 - $750 all day long on guns that we are going to take out and shoot a ton with.

Dragon
04-28-2012, 9:44 PM
Try Archery! A decent compound bow will cost you between $800 to $1100 and thats just the bow. You add the sight, dampeners and stabilizer, arrow rest and mechanical release gets you another $400-$700. Complete arrows are between $ 120 to $250 a dozen. Custom strings between $100 to $130. Manufacturer jack up the price of their product and people keep buying them thinking the higher the price the better quality.

lol....+100000 but when u finally have everything its not so bad :)

tbhracing
04-28-2012, 9:55 PM
Easy- Supply and Demand.

orangeusa
04-28-2012, 10:05 PM
We had a thread like this a couple weeks ago. I stand by my statement,
guns are cheap, ammo is expensive.

The first year I bought a hand gun, I spent the same price as the gun cost - NEW + fees, taxes in ammo.

Get a decent gun - and there are MANY, and they will last a lifetime. Minimal cost to fix springs. ect.

.

battleship
04-28-2012, 10:57 PM
I always ponder why my SCAR 17 cost over $3000, how much was the raw material made to construct the rifle and how much time in man hours/process it took to make it vs My browning gun safe which cost me $2600, has a hundred times more raw material in it and i am sure from start to finish was a vastly longer process.
I reckon design and development plays a big part but once you have it down should it not be like a ford Model T. thousands produced so everyone could afford one.

ErikTheRed
04-29-2012, 2:18 AM
Like everything, its all relative. Someone else could just as sensibly ask, "why are guns so cheap?"

I'm not asking that, though.

Merc1138
04-29-2012, 2:42 AM
I always ponder why my SCAR 17 cost over $3000, how much was the raw material made to construct the rifle and how much time in man hours/process it took to make it vs My browning gun safe which cost me $2600, has a hundred times more raw material in it and i am sure from start to finish was a vastly longer process.
I reckon design and development plays a big part but once you have it down should it not be like a ford Model T. thousands produced so everyone could afford one.

Not everything is a matter of raw material cost.

You have to pay costs to manufacture it(you don't just wave a magic wand towards a pile of plastic and metal). Guns require machines and tools to make, these are not cheap.

You have to pay employees in a factory(or pay an outsourced factory).

You have to pay engineers.

You have to pay your HR, legal, shipping/receiving, etc. departments.

You have to pay taxes, fees, licensing, insurance, etc.

You have to pay for testing.

Mind you, these costs are all a burden on the company before the first gun is even made. A company might spend 3-5 years working on a project before a production gun is even sold. You have to make all of that money back somehow. To just look at the raw material cost is completely absurd. When pricing a product, you need to figure out how much to sell the thing for and how many you need to sell(and how quickly they can get sold) to earn back the massive expenditure of producing the thing. After the millions of dollars that a company like FN likely spent, they're going to have to sell a metric ****ton of SCARs to recoup their costs. Of course you could say "well why don't they sell them at half the price?" well they can't guarantee twice as many would get sold at even half the price, and I doubt they want to wait until the turn of the next century to get their money back.

Ford was able to cut long term costs by changing how automobiles were produced, and gambled(albeit with very, very good odds) that they could sell enough cars at a cheap price to quickly amortize(yes, that's the key word that is used to explain what I described above regarding the SCAR) the cost of developing the model T via the cheaper production.

FalconLair
04-29-2012, 6:50 AM
Comparing guns with cars is a bad analogy. Most gun owners see their guns as jewelry; at least I do. Here is a better way to look at it; women buy purses, men buy guns. Oh, and let me add; some purses are well over $1K.


thats my wife you're talking about with those $1K purses purchases lol...and i tell her "why you spend $1000.00 dollars on a purse that you're putting $50.00 worth of stuff into"?

FalconLair
04-29-2012, 6:57 AM
Everything is expensive these days. I took the family to Disneyland (6 people) and it cost more than my XD9+3 mags+Serpa+100 rounds PMC 9mm.

and i've heard Mickey is anti-gun

FalconLair
04-29-2012, 7:02 AM
honestly bought my first gun in 1988, a Colt King Cobra 4" Stainless Steel .357 revolver, for $300.00 and I have no idea what its worth today. Plus it's got less than 200 rounds put through it in all that time. Just sits in my safe looking extremely nice.

raymartrading
04-29-2012, 10:35 AM
If you think guns are expensive, tag along with me when my wife takes a Fashion Valley tour of Nordstrom's, Gucci, Louis Vuitton, and Jimmy Choos. The woman thinks she's a one-man stimulus package.

JMP
04-29-2012, 11:05 AM
I resent companies like HiPoint making a $150 gun. Seems too easy to get out on the street. Gangbangers like cheap disposable guns for crime. They'll think twice before tossing an HK into the sewer.

drdarrin@sbcglobal.net
04-29-2012, 12:31 PM
I resent companies like HiPoint making a $150 gun. Seems too easy to get out on the street. Gangbangers like cheap disposable guns for crime. They'll think twice before tossing an HK into the sewer.

Do you seriously think gang bangers are buying very many of their guns from reputable sources? Or want anyone to be able to trace a gun back to them.

That $150 gun you're deriding is great for someone with limited means who feels the need to be able to defend themselves. No everyone can afford to lay down a grand on a handgun.

Merc1138
04-29-2012, 5:37 PM
I resent companies like HiPoint making a $150 gun. Seems too easy to get out on the street. Gangbangers like cheap disposable guns for crime. They'll think twice before tossing an HK into the sewer.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ELFl2_1q7DI/TObn1HnV2fI/AAAAAAAAAaQ/5JkvAtpbv7k/s1600/Not_sure_if_serious.jpg