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View Full Version : Why Are Bullet Buttons So Expensive?


Yugo
04-25-2012, 10:23 AM
This costs about $1 to make if that. What is the cheapest price you have found for a BB for ar15

stix213
04-25-2012, 10:26 AM
They are a specialty item intended for a small niche market. That's why they are expensive.

Johnnyfres
04-25-2012, 10:29 AM
The state should be providing free bullet buttons to everyone in my opinion.

Baconator
04-25-2012, 10:31 AM
That's what the market pays. Why would you sell anything for less than what you could get for it?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Yugo
04-25-2012, 10:31 AM
so many of you guys with machine shops make a few thousand for us calgunners only and sell them for the cheap and make a few $ but dont rape us. like $5-$6 you will still make lots of $ IMO

Sicarius
04-25-2012, 10:41 AM
Better yet, why would they not charge more? I think we have it fairly good considering we are such an exclusive market. This is definately not a poor mans sport so if you can afford the toys and ammo, 20-30 bucks is really not bad at all...
Kevin

bender152
04-25-2012, 10:41 AM
Do you really think these can be made for a dollar?

The materials might cost a dollar, but what about all the overhead costs?

bloodhawke83
04-25-2012, 10:42 AM
20 bucks, radlock

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Yugo
04-25-2012, 10:45 AM
forget it :banghead:

Calgunner217
04-25-2012, 10:50 AM
Your not paying for the materials and production of a BB. Your paying for the intellectual property value of that item. It took time to design and think up the idea of BB. It is a niche item and the price we pay is fair. $30 for a Radlock is not outrageous.

TreeHugger
04-25-2012, 10:53 AM
Wanna play, gotta pay. Either that or stick with featureless rifles. It's called capitalism and I luv it.

WTSGDYBBR
04-25-2012, 10:54 AM
Because people are greedy. You can get one made for under 3 bucks in china. Anything made in the US will cost you more.





This costs about $1 to make if that. What is the cheapest price you have found for a BB for ar15

ojisan
04-25-2012, 11:10 AM
As somebody who makes things perhaps I can provide some insight.

Raw materials costs are usually not a big part of the total cost of a product.
The costs are from the machine time and the labor to make them.
There are other costs for tooling such as holding fixtures, cutting bits and also CNC programs.
Once you make the part you still have to have it finished (anodized or whatever).
This means more labor operations to pack, deliver the bare parts to the finisher, then get them back.
Then there is more labor for packing the item...and the package itself and instructions cost.

OK, now we have our finished parts in hand, in a package and ready to sell.
We still have to advertise them and set up a website to order.
The website needs credit card processing, site hosting, a ~$1,000 Shopping Cart software license and integration with an invoicing / shipping system.
Now that we have a product and an order in hand, we still need to physically ship it.
Even a small cardboard box or bubble mailer envelope costs around a dollar.
Add some protective packing materials and shipping by mail at the cheapest and there is another $2-5.

We haven't yet accounted for California's annual corporation fee (minimum $800 / year), California's business taxes (minimum $900 / year) or any product liability insurance (~ $3,000 + / year), overhead for the business location, wages and benefits.

If you are only selling maybe 1,000 pieces a year of a lower priced item, these costs per piece may exceed the cost of the product itself, yet they must be accounted for if the business expects to remain in operation.

ExtremeX
04-25-2012, 11:10 AM
Because they know you need it...

VictorFranko
04-25-2012, 11:11 AM
This costs about $1 to make if that.

How do you know this?

so many of you guys with machine shops make a few thousand for us calgunners only and sell them for the cheap and make a few $ but dont rape us. like $5-$6 you will still make lots of $ IMO

How do you know this?





I'm guessing the firearms accessory industry runs on a 40% mark-up, there abouts.
So....the manufacturer of the BB sells the $20 BB to the dealer for $12.
Here's a short list of the manufacturers costs to produce that whopping $12 profit:

Mortgage or rent on the building
Utilities (much higher than your home)
Employee payroll
Employee state and federal taxes
Employee 401K contribution
Employee health plan
Fire and liability insurance
Cost of machinery
Cost of materials
Packaging materials
Shipping materials
Printed materials such as installation instructions
Product liability insurance
Plating
Business license fees
and so much more.............

It's funny, people always think machinists should work for free, next-near to free or for a six-pack of beer.
I had a neighbor ask me to make him a mandrel for his hole saw (for installing door knobs) that he lost. I reached in my pocket, pulled out $2, handed it to him and told him to go the hardware store and buy himself one.

VictorFranko
04-25-2012, 11:13 AM
Damn you Ojisan, beat me by a minute!
I just have to learn to type faster :p
(Truth is, I had to run out in the shop and reload two CNC's)

zfields
04-25-2012, 11:16 AM
How do you know this?



How do you know this?





I'm guessing the firearms accessory industry runs on a 40% mark-up, there abouts.
So....the manufacturer of the BB sells the $20 BB to the dealer for $12.
Here's a short list of the manufacturers costs to produce that whopping $12 profit:

Mortgage or rent on the building
Utilities (much higher than your home)
Employee payroll
Employee state and federal taxes
Employee 401K contribution
Employee health plan
Fire and liability insurance
Cost of machinery
Cost of materials
Packaging materials
Shipping materials
Printed materials such as installation instructions
Product liability insurance
Plating
Business license fees
and so much more.............

It's funny, people always think machinists should work for free, next-near to free or for a six-pack of beer.
I had a neighbor ask me to make him a mandrel for his hole saw (for installing door knobs) that he lost. I reached in my pocket, pulled out $2, handed it to him and told him to go the hardware store and buy himself one.

On top of that, if someone is trying to make a living selling a product with a limited market, $4 profit per sale isn't going to put food on the table or a roof over your head.

Intimid8tor
04-25-2012, 11:17 AM
As somebody who makes things perhaps I can provide some insight.

Raw materials costs are usually not a big part of the total cost of a product.
The costs are from the machine time and the labor to make them.
There are other costs for tooling such as holding fixtures, cutting bits and also CNC programs.
Once you make the part you still have to have it finished (anodized or whatever).
This means more labor operations to pack, deliver the bare parts to the finisher, then get them back.
Then there is more labor for packing the item...and the package itself and instructions cost.

OK, now we have our finished parts in hand, in a package and ready to sell.
We still have to advertise them and set up a website to order.
The website needs credit card processing, site hosting, a ~$1,000 Shopping Cart software license and integration with an invoicing / shipping system.
Now that we have a product and an order in hand, we still need to physically ship it.
Even a small cardboard box or bubble mailer envelope costs around a dollar.
Add some protective packing materials and shipping by mail at the cheapest and there is another $2-5.

We haven't yet accounted for California's annual corporation fee (minimum $800 / year), California's business taxes (minimum $900 / year) or any product liability insurance (~ $3,000 + / year), overhead for the business location, wages and benefits.

If you are only selling maybe 1,000 pieces a year of a lower priced item, these costs per piece may exceed the cost of the product itself, yet they must be accounted for if the business expects to remain in operation.

Great synopsis of many of the things that are part of a business. When I started my own business I quickly learned that EVERYTHING associated with the business costs money. The above synopsis doesn't even include the time of doing the work.

I think the prices charged for magazine locks is fair. There is R&D involved, trial and error, etc.

For those that think it's greed. Come on. They aren't charging $100 for one of these. It's $20. About the cheapest part on an AR and a fair price.

To the OP, if you want to sell one cheaper, come up with your own design, manufacture it, market it and do it for $5 each, let us know.

m03
04-25-2012, 11:21 AM
As somebody who makes things perhaps I can provide some insight.

Raw materials costs are usually not a big part of the total cost of a product.
The costs are from the machine time and the labor to make them.
There are other costs for tooling such as holding fixtures, cutting bits and also CNC programs.
Once you make the part you still have to have it finished (anodized or whatever).
This means more labor operations to pack, deliver the bare parts to the finisher, then get them back.
Then there is more labor for packing the item...and the package itself and instructions cost.

OK, now we have our finished parts in hand, in a package and ready to sell.
We still have to advertise them and set up a website to order.
The website needs credit card processing, site hosting, a ~$1,000 Shopping Cart software license and integration with an invoicing / shipping system.
Now that we have a product and an order in hand, we still need to physically ship it.
Even a small cardboard box or bubble mailer envelope costs around a dollar.
Add some protective packing materials and shipping by mail at the cheapest and there is another $2-5.

We haven't yet accounted for California's annual corporation fee (minimum $800 / year), California's business taxes (minimum $900 / year) or any product liability insurance (~ $3,000 + / year), overhead for the business location, wages and benefits.

If you are only selling maybe 1,000 pieces a year of a lower priced item, these costs per piece may exceed the cost of the product itself, yet they must be accounted for if the business expects to remain in operation.


This. Even making small runs of parts as an individual can be very expensive, as I've helped facilitate the production of items on other non-firearms forums. Just getting one prototype of a small part produced can costs several hundred dollars.

There's also the fact that, when dealing with magazine locks, you need to spend time and effort testing and tuning the design to deal with variances found across different examples of the same model.

I'd guess that the magazine lock that you think costs $1 actually costs closer to $8 or $9 per unit, with all expenses factored in.

WTSGDYBBR
04-25-2012, 11:24 AM
Your going over board with your numbers . You do not need to use shipping software to print labels . But if you did you can spend a max of $30 bucks a month from ship works you can. You could use OsCommers or Drupel clubcart so on there are tons of freeware back ends you can use. You don't need product liability insurance. You can use a DBA there is no reason to open of a S corp or corp to pay your min 800 a year for tax's and get double taxed on payroll.
There are cheap ways about going to run a biz and make tons of cash. I just posted 2 sites below were you can find a vender that will make anything for you .
If you were into electronics here is another site.
http://www.sunsky-online.com/

http://www.alibaba.com/?src=Google&albch=Google&albcp=Search_Search-Better&albkw=alibaba_USUKAU-Search-Trademark-P4P_None_none&albag=home_none_Alibaba_Trademark&albmt=Exact&albst=search-text&albom=US-UK-AU_None_20120101_P4P&creative=10557550083&placement=

http://www.madeinchina.com/homepage_promotion20110906.shtml?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=ad1&utm_campaign=mic&gclid=CMLazrbc0K8CFQZ_hwodEGW-GA

As somebody who makes things perhaps I can provide some insight.

Raw materials costs are usually not a big part of the total cost of a product.
The costs are from the machine time and the labor to make them.
There are other costs for tooling such as holding fixtures, cutting bits and also CNC programs.
Once you make the part you still have to have it finished (anodized or whatever).
This means more labor operations to pack, deliver the bare parts to the finisher, then get them back.
Then there is more labor for packing the item...and the package itself and instructions cost.

OK, now we have our finished parts in hand, in a package and ready to sell.
We still have to advertise them and set up a website to order.
The website needs credit card processing, site hosting, a ~$1,000 Shopping Cart software license and integration with an invoicing / shipping system.
Now that we have a product and an order in hand, we still need to physically ship it.
Even a small cardboard box or bubble mailer envelope costs around a dollar.
Add some protective packing materials and shipping by mail at the cheapest and there is another $2-5.

We haven't yet accounted for California's annual corporation fee (minimum $800 / year), California's business taxes (minimum $900 / year) or any product liability insurance (~ $3,000 + / year), overhead for the business location, wages and benefits.

If you are only selling maybe 1,000 pieces a year of a lower priced item, these costs per piece may exceed the cost of the product itself, yet they must be accounted for if the business expects to remain in operation.

Exile Machine
04-25-2012, 11:32 AM
...Don't forget the cost of the bookkeepers and accountants to keep track of where the money is going. Don't forget payroll costs beyond the actual wages. That stuff adds up fast.

After you've run a small business for a few years, you'd realize that the price being charged for the Bullet Button is just about the minimum you could charge for it and draw enough profit to stay in business. Now if you had another line of business that kept the lights on, you could subsidize the cost of the Bullet Button and give 'em away for a buck. We are doing that to a large extent with the Hammerhead grip (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/exile-machine-hammerhead-ar-15-grip-black-1.html). That's one reason why the Hammerhead is priced about $20 less than our nearest competitor. Because our nationwide customers who buy magazines, AR-15 stocks, holographic sights or any of the other 10,999 other parts on our store are helping to pay off the outrageous tooling costs on that CA compliance part.

To answer the OP's question we sell the Bullet Button for $18.95 and no shipping charge (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/assault-planet-ar-bullet-button-609.html) for CA compliance parts.

g_conway
04-25-2012, 11:37 AM
Can you say...“Captive Audience”

Cali's need them, they make em, limited audiance, get the money while you can.

Sometimes it's called business

drifter2be
04-25-2012, 11:44 AM
so many of you guys with machine shops make a few thousand for us calgunners only and sell them for the cheap and make a few $ but dont rape us. like $5-$6 you will still make lots of $ IMO

Your logic here made me laugh really hard, I highly doubt you have any clue what it takes to design and manufacture something even as simple as a bullet button, nor do you understand the concept of supply and demand especially pertaining to small niche markets such as the CA gun market. If you really think $20-30 for a bullet button/magazine lock is too much find a different hobby, or instead of pissing and moaning, why don't YOU go out and make the cheap alternative and market it for the $5-6 dollars you are claiming will still make lots of money?

In all honesty your post makes you sound like one of these socialist-liberals that think that someone turning a profit in the country is evil.

Gotta love the internet, people have tons of opinions about what OTHERS should be doing to fix what they see as a problem instead of taking action themselves.

WTSGDYBBR
04-25-2012, 11:48 AM
Exile Machine when running a successful ecommers online site making 860k to a mill in sales every year the cost of bookkeeping is a joke. I paid my book keeper 3k at the end of the year. There was noting hard about going to WU and paypal to Dl statements. Course there is a cost of operation but having high value online orders knowing how to market your biz is unbelievable. I happy to here you offering mag locks for a price people can afford . I paid $6.50 for my mag locks from a importer who bought them from china .

http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af133/wtsgdybbr/PICT0507.jpg

If you think about importing product from china you can make very good profit example. If your a FFL and someone buys a handgun they make you buy a gun lock for $12.00 say you spent $1,000 bucks on a investment on 1000 gun locks for 1 bucks each from china whats your profit 11k profit 1k cost . Not bad . There are tons of nitch markets you can open up to. Safty Glass's , ear plugs , paper targets , so on so on.


http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/554487322/Gun_Lock.html


...Don't forget the cost of the bookkeepers and accountants to keep track of where the money is going. Don't forget payroll costs beyond the actual wages. That stuff adds up fast.

After you've run a small business for a few years, you'd realize that the price being charged for the Bullet Button is just about the minimum you could charge for it and draw enough profit to stay in business. Now if you had another line of business that kept the lights on, you could subsidize the cost of the Bullet Button and give 'em away for a buck. We are doing that to a large extent with the Hammerhead grip (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/exile-machine-hammerhead-ar-15-grip-black-1.html). That's one reason why the Hammerhead is priced about $20 less than our nearest competitor. Because our nationwide customers who buy magazines, AR-15 stocks, holographic sights or any of the other 10,999 other parts on our store are helping to pay off the outrageous tooling costs on that CA compliance part.

To answer the OP's question we sell the Bullet Button for $18.95 and no shipping charge (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/assault-planet-ar-bullet-button-609.html) for CA compliance parts.

Yemff
04-25-2012, 12:32 PM
so many of you guys with machine shops make a few thousand for us calgunners only and sell them for the cheap and make a few $ but dont rape us. like $5-$6 you will still make lots of $ IMO

with your logic a complete gun should only cost the weight of the metal plus a few bucks?

philobeddoe
04-25-2012, 12:35 PM
The state should be providing free bullet buttons to everyone in my opinion.

Free BB? If 49million people get EBT where the heck is my government gun?!

ojisan
04-25-2012, 12:35 PM
"You don't need product liability insurance."
:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

Sure, not needed if you are a hit-and-run business and can cover your tracks well enough when you bail out on everything.

The business environment is very predatory out there.
If you think you can run a straight up business long term without any insurance, then you must have enough disposable cash to cover any eventuality....or you figure you can run and hide well enough.

I run as an LLC so there is no double tax. ; )

Production in China for functional firearms parts is not as easy as it looks.
Not that many China manufacturers are actually licensed and approved to export these items legally to the USA.

I see you did not mention import duties in your pricing...or customs, licensing and registration costs with US.gov.
Did you not account for this?
How about tooling?
Your vendor made the stamp and form dies for free?
Or was this amortized into the parts costs?
What were your freight costs and lead times?
Are you sure you thought this through all the way to determine your exact net ccost?
The purchase cost in China and the landed cost in the USA are not the same thing.

Some of us are here for the long haul.... a hit-and run business / sending manufacturing jobs overseas is not our game.
Every part in my Kits is 100% USA made...the metal, the wood, the hardware, even the box it ships in.
The ripple effect of job creation that manufacturing here results in is what this country needs.
Some of us have goals beyond a quick buck.

Curley Red
04-25-2012, 12:38 PM
This costs about $1 to make if that. What is the cheapest price you have found for a BB for ar15

Talk about spreading FUD!

mif_slim
04-25-2012, 12:43 PM
A lot of people dont think about the overhead cost...just the product itself. Many folks here covered it well.

WTSGDYBBR
04-25-2012, 12:57 PM
Duties are little of none. Duties are based on what the shipper declares the value of the item. That can be 1 Pennie. Some product it not even taxable if its a electronic modem depending on how its classified. Shipping is up to you EMS , Ocean , Overnight . I have done this before not with gun parts and have made hundreds of thousands . So this is not something im just thinking up. Your right you may not import some gun parts . But gun accessories or "Machines Brackets" you can. Your worried about shipping and duty fees on a bullet button that is sold for 35 bucks + 7 bucks shipping = 42 bucks that you would pay 3-4 bucks tops for. No paying for tooling or molding just commit to buy x amount of units .


"You don't need product liability insurance."
:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

Sure, not needed if you are a hit-and-run business and can cover your tracks well enough when you bail out on everything.

The business environment is very predatory out there.
If you think you can run a straight up business long term without any insurance, then you must have enough disposable cash to cover any eventuality....or you figure you can run and hide well enough.

I run as an LLC so there is no double tax. ; )

Production in China for functional firearms parts is not as easy as it looks.
Not that many China manufacturers are actually licensed and approved to export these items legally to the USA.

I see you did not mention import duties in your pricing...or customs, licensing and registration costs with US.gov.
Did you not account for this?
How about tooling?
Your vendor made the stamp and form dies for free?
Or was this amortized into the parts costs?
What were your freight costs and lead times?
Are you sure you thought this through all the way to determine your exact net ccost?
The purchase cost in China and the landed cost in the USA are not the same thing.

Some of us are here for the long haul.... a hit-and run business / sending manufacturing jobs overseas is not our game.
Every part in my Kits is 100% USA made...the metal, the wood, the hardware, even the box it ships in.
The ripple effect of job creation that manufacturing here results in is what this country needs.
Some of us have goals beyond a quick buck.

gun toting monkeyboy
04-25-2012, 1:35 PM
Duties are little of none. Duties are based on what the shipper declares the value of the item. That can be 1 Pennie. Some product it not even taxable if its a electronic modem depending on how its classified. Shipping is up to you EMS , Ocean , Overnight . I have done this before not with gun parts and have made hundreds of thousands . So this is not something im just thinking up. Your right you may not import some gun parts . But gun accessories or "Machines Brackets" you can. Your worried about shipping and duty fees on a bullet button that is sold for 35 bucks + 7 bucks shipping = 42 bucks that you would pay 3-4 bucks tops for. No paying for tooling or molding just commit to buy x amount of units .

lol. You SO have no clue. Duties are NOT based on what the shipper declares the value to be. The Customs service takes a very dim view of playing games like that. And they WILL hold your shipment if you try it. I have had them hold shipments for weeks just because they couldn't figure out which code to classify the item under. As for importing copies of somebody else's product, which is most likely protected by a patent, it is usually illegal. And you are going through an awful lot of trouble for such a small item. If you want something that cheap, why don't you just make it yourself? If you can't, then don't whine when other people actually want you to pay for their time and efforts. And the cheapest I have seen them is at MidwayUSA for around $16. I am sure as hell not going to go trompsing all over the world, playing games with shipping and customs, just to get around spending less than $20. That is just stupid.

-Mb

SoCalSig1911
04-25-2012, 1:48 PM
Some of you can be so dumb sometimes. The easiest way i can help navigate your narrow point of view away from China is by telling you that making 1,000 mag locks and selling them for $6000 will put any shop out of business.. Even if you made 10,000 mag locks and sold them for $6 ea you are talking about $60k and then you have machines that are over $100k a piece, you have employees (at least 10 to run 10,000 parts) then there is hardware to buy, anodizing to be done, packaging, electricity bill, etc.. I can go on and on, but by the time you get to your salary you will end up with a bag of rice and some water for the week and that's the same as the guys in China are getting for making your pile of crap $6 mag lock, Enough said.

Also one day when we as a nation get some balls and stop this no tax importing from China the price of your $6 mag lock will jump up to $24 overnight.

chillincody
04-25-2012, 2:00 PM
Free BB? If 49million people get EBT where the heck is my government gun?!

LOL!!***:43:

Droppin Deuces
04-25-2012, 2:04 PM
Please.

If KAC, Noveske or BCM made bullet buttons, all of you cheapskates who are whining would pay $50 for one :p

RazzB7
04-25-2012, 2:05 PM
Please.

If KAC, Noveske or BCM made bullet buttons, all of you cheapskates who are whining would pay $50 for one :p

You forgot Magpul. :43:

SuperSet
04-25-2012, 2:18 PM
Complaining about $20-30. Is this thread for real?

newglockster
04-25-2012, 2:22 PM
Please.

If KAC, Noveske or BCM made bullet buttons, all of you cheapskates who are whining would pay $50 for one :p

HAHA! that's awesome!

sorensen440
04-25-2012, 2:34 PM
Feel free to invent a product that works as well and try selling it for less and see if with taxes rent marketing and labor you can still make money selling them for to a dealer for 40-50% less then the 5 dollars you would like them to sell for.

WTSGDYBBR
04-25-2012, 2:35 PM
Yea your right I have no clue. I have imported tons of crap from china with no issue. Iv have had one shipment out of a dozen seized because US Customs wanted to make sure the product was not illegal. They kept my product for 3 months . I told DHL to return it to sender if there was a issue. So the request to US Customs was to return ti china. DHL called me a 2 weeks later saying that they would deliver the product just fill out a power of attorney forum . That product was RETURNS and there was no declared value. You can also import someone else product under patent if its resigned to a %. I'm not here to prove your right or wrong. I know for a fact I can get stuff in from China, Korea, Twain with no issues. I have a network of people who live of importing product and selling it online .I know the ods and ends from my doings.

lol. You SO have no clue. Duties are NOT based on what the shipper declares the value to be. The Customs service takes a very dim view of playing games like that. And they WILL hold your shipment if you try it. I have had them hold shipments for weeks just because they couldn't figure out which code to classify the item under. As for importing copies of somebody else's product, which is most likely protected by a patent, it is usually illegal. And you are going through an awful lot of trouble for such a small item. If you want something that cheap, why don't you just make it yourself? If you can't, then don't whine when other people actual want you to pay for their time and efforts. And the cheapest I have seen them is at MidwayUSA for around $16. I am sure as hell not going to go trompsing all over the world, playing games with shipping and customs, just to get around spending less than $20. That is just stupid.

-Mb

gun toting monkeyboy
04-25-2012, 2:43 PM
Ummm... About all you know how to do is import stuff illegally. You are skirting around the laws, and you will get caught one of these days. I know that I can get all kinds of stuff from all over the world. I also know that there are laws that must be followed if you actually want to do it legally. I am happy that you don't mind playing fast and loose with these kinds of things. Mostly because I know that sooner or later they are going to nail you for it. And you will get to pay some rather large fines and possibly spend time in Club Fed. Enjoy the showers with large men named "Bubba" and "Tiny". Oh, and dont drop the soap.:rolleyes:

-Mb


Yea your right I have no clue. I have imported tons of crap from china with no issue. Iv have had one shipment out of a dozen seized because US Customs wanted to make sure the product was not illegal. They kept my product for 3 months . I told DHL to return it to sender if there was a issue. So the request to US Customs was to return ti china. DHL called me a 2 weeks later saying that they would deliver the product just fill out a power of attorney forum . That product was RETURNS and there was no declared value. You can also import someone else product under patent if its resigned to a %. I'm not here to prove your right or wrong. I know for a fact I can get stuff in from China, Korea, Twain with no issues. I have a network of people who live of importing product and selling it online .I know the ods and ends from my doings.

WTSGDYBBR
04-25-2012, 2:52 PM
There is noting illegal about it. Just because you don't understand the in and out of importing and exporting that's your issue. Trying to put fear into people trying to make money makes no sense. If there was a issue on how product is being imported then it would be stopped. So go back to your 9-5 and prey you have a job next year. I'm not worried about Camp Snoopy. I know the odds and ends.

Ummm... About all you know how to do is import stuff illegally. You are skirting around the laws, and you will get caught one of these days. I know that I can get all kinds of stuff from all over the world. I also know that there are laws that must be followed if you actually want to do it legally. I am happy that you don't mind playing fast and loose with these kinds of things. Mostly because I know that sooner or later they are going to nail you for it. And you will get to pay some rather large fines and possibly spend time in Club Fed. Enjoy the showers with large men named "Bubba" and "Tiny". Oh, and dont drop the soap.:rolleyes:

-Mb

calif 15-22
04-25-2012, 2:57 PM
Some of you can be so dumb sometimes. The easiest way i can help navigate your narrow point of view away from China is by telling you that making 1,000 mag locks and selling them for $6000 will put any shop out of business.. Even if you made 10,000 mag locks and sold them for $6 ea you are talking about $60k and then you have machines that are over $100k a piece, you have employees (at least 10 to run 10,000 parts) then there is hardware to buy, anodizing to be done, packaging, electricity bill, etc.. I can go on and on, but by the time you get to your salary you will end up with a bag of rice and some water for the week and that's the same as the guys in China are getting for making your pile of crap $6 mag lock, Enough said.

Also one day when we as a nation get some balls and stop this no tax importing from China the price of your $6 mag lock will jump up to $24 overnight.

I gotta agree with SoCalSig, Victorfranko and Ojisan.
The same people who claim $20 for a BB is to much also whine about loosing jobs here in america. You really want to know why we have no more manufacturing jobs here. It's because we want to be paid a decent wage AND we want a BB for $1.

Pisses me off when people complain about Companies charging "to much" and have no clue what it costs to make something here in Amercia or even how much more it costs here in California.

Hell a pizza costs $20 and with any luck I crap that thing the next day. At least with a $20 BB (which I neither have nor am legally able to use) I'd have around for a few years.

calif 15-22
04-25-2012, 3:03 PM
Duties are little of none. Duties are based on what the shipper declares the value of the item. That can be 1 Pennie. Some product it not even taxable if its a electronic modem depending on how its classified. Shipping is up to you EMS , Ocean , Overnight . I have done this before not with gun parts and have made hundreds of thousands . So this is not something im just thinking up. Your right you may not import some gun parts . But gun accessories or "Machines Brackets" you can. Your worried about shipping and duty fees on a bullet button that is sold for 35 bucks + 7 bucks shipping = 42 bucks that you would pay 3-4 bucks tops for. No paying for tooling or molding just commit to buy x amount of units .

Just because you can import and skirt the regulations doesn't make it "legal". Customs duties are based on the "value" of the item not what you pencil in that little box on the SLE or Import Declaration form. Sure if you run a business from your house you may never have an issue, but that doesn't make it the law. You sir are quoting what you do, not the law.

From FedEx web page:
Customs officials use a shipment's declared value or declared value for customs (the value the shipper declares on the goods being shipped), along with the description of the goods, to determine duties and taxes. It is important to ensure that the declared value is accurate and consistent with your air waybill. Inaccurate declared value is one of the most prevalent reasons for duty and tax disputes.
A shipment's declared value represents the selling price or fair market value of the contents of the shipment, even if not sold. This value is identified when you prepare your shipments online using FedEx Ship Manager™ at fedex.ca, or on the FedEx® International air waybill and the FedEx Expanded Service International air waybill as the "Total Value for Customs," and it must be consistent with the value shown on the Commercial Invoice.


I'm not a real Bonded Customs Broker but I play one on TV.

WTSGDYBBR
04-25-2012, 3:21 PM
The value is based off what the shipper "China" Puts. If I wire transfer $50 bucks for product and "China" declares $50 bucks how is this illegal. The shipper Declarers the amount of the shipment and that's what the duty's are declared . There is no Skimming . gun toting monkeyboy don't understand the odds's and ends of importing if he cannot even find a import code for product he is importing glad im not dealing with his supplier

Just because you can import and skirt the regulations doesn't make it "legal". Customs duties are based on the "value" of the item not what you pencil in that little box on the SLE or Import Declaration form. Sure if you run a business from your house you may never have an issue, but that doesn't make it the law. You sir are quoting what you do, not the law.

From FedEx web page:
Customs officials use a shipment's declared value or declared value for customs (the value the shipper declares on the goods being shipped), along with the description of the goods, to determine duties and taxes. It is important to ensure that the declared value is accurate and consistent with your air waybill. Inaccurate declared value is one of the most prevalent reasons for duty and tax disputes.
A shipment's declared value represents the selling price or fair market value of the contents of the shipment, even if not sold. This value is identified when you prepare your shipments online using FedEx Ship Manager™ at fedex.ca, or on the FedEx® International air waybill and the FedEx Expanded Service International air waybill as the "Total Value for Customs," and it must be consistent with the value shown on the Commercial Invoice.


I'm not a real Bonded Customs Broker but I play one on TV.

toby
04-25-2012, 3:33 PM
Bullet Buttons are expensive because you need one!.......

SoCalSig1911
04-25-2012, 3:36 PM
Bullet Buttons are expensive because you need one!.......

They are NOT expensive... We are talking about $20 so that you can own an AR-15 in CA.. I mean Really, you're going to shell out $700-2000+ on an AR and then complain about the $20 BB?

So cheap that the Star of David in my avatar is :facepalm:

gun toting monkeyboy
04-25-2012, 3:41 PM
Finding the import code, and having it actually work are two different things. Even customs has difficulty with this. And they can come back several years later and say "You know what? We thought it was X, but now that we have re-evaluated it, it looks like it should have been Y. Here is a bill for the difference." And there is also a huge difference between getting a box those ultra-cheap calculators that you won on eBay sent to you and importing thousands of items for sale. Again, have fun when the Customs Agents show up to have a little "talk" with you.

-Mb

calif 15-22
04-25-2012, 3:42 PM
The value is based off what the shipper "China" Puts. If I wire transfer $50 bucks for product and "China" declares $50 bucks how is this illegal. The shipper Declarers the amount of the shipment and that's what the duty's are declared . There is no Skimming . gun toting monkeyboy don't understand the odds's and ends of importing if he cannot even find a import code for product he is importing glad im not dealing with his supplier

You are sort of correct and it is confusing.

When you send your shipper (which I think you mean manufacturer the guy making the stuff for you) $50 dollars to make parts for you, that is the "Cost" of the parts meaning that is how much you are paying for your items.

What is supposed to be on the Declaration of Import is the "Selling Price" or "Fair Market Value" of the item, NOT the cost to manufacture the item.

What you said was "Duties are little of none. Duties are based on what the shipper declares the value of the item. That can be 1 Pennie"

So if the Selling Price of your item is "1 Penny" or the value is "1 penny" then that is correct. But i you paid 1 penny and your selling price is $6 then the "Value" is $6 not the "Cost" which is 1 penny.

It is confusing and for a small non regulated business you most likely would never get caught.

None of this has anything to do with BB which I do not have as they may or may not be legal in California.


Oh and it's "in's and out's" of importing not "odd's and ends".

RazzB7
04-25-2012, 3:46 PM
I don't know. I think $20 for a bullet button that keeps me from picking up a felony is pretty inexpensive! My lawyer won't even answer my phone call for $20!

CSACANNONEER
04-25-2012, 3:50 PM
A nylox nut only costs about 50 cents and it's all you need to use to lock a magazine into place in such a way that it is not "detachable".

WTSGDYBBR
04-25-2012, 4:11 PM
I don't disagree with your statement. Most of anything iv important is new development. The new product have only a declare cost value not a market value because it was not market into a later time. You away start with samples of the product to make sure there are no flaws. We would uselessly buy so much stock to flood the market with sales the later buys would be very minimum. Most new product sold to a nitch market sells well before the market is flooded. Depending how good the product is depends how long it will last at high volume .

You are sort of correct and it is confusing.

When you send your shipper (which I think you mean manufacturer the guy making the stuff for you) $50 dollars to make parts for you, that is the "Cost" of the parts meaning that is how much you are paying for your items.

What is supposed to be on the Declaration of Import is the "Selling Price" or "Fair Market Value" of the item, NOT the cost to manufacture the item.

What you said was "Duties are little of none. Duties are based on what the shipper declares the value of the item. That can be 1 Pennie"

So if the Selling Price of your item is "1 Penny" or the value is "1 penny" then that is correct. But i you paid 1 penny and your selling price is $6 then the "Value" is $6 not the "Cost" which is 1 penny.

It is confusing and for a small non regulated business you most likely would never get caught.

None of this has anything to do with BB which I do not have as they may or may not be legal in California.


Oh and it's "in's and out's" of importing not "odd's and ends".

tacticalcity
04-25-2012, 4:18 PM
I am continually amazed how many Calguns members are flat out Communists!

HK Dave
04-25-2012, 4:24 PM
Let me spell it out VERY SIMPLY...

The Answer is... BECAUSE PEOPLE PAY THAT MUCH FOR THEM.

As long as people pay it, it'll be that price. That's it, it's that simple. This is America. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If nobody buys it at $20, the seller has to make a choice as to whether to lower the price or close up shop or whatever. It's what makes for a free system.

Don't get my started on what Obama is trying to do to it..... well basically he's trying to do what some of you are saying.... "Why can't it be cheaper? Why can't people just be happy with making a few dollars profit?" :P

Intimid8tor
04-25-2012, 4:33 PM
I am continually amazed how many Calguns members are flat out Communists!

Me too.

beretta929mm
04-25-2012, 4:43 PM
Why so expensive?
Labor cost is too high in this country.

Wait...Don't we all deserve to make a 6 figure salary?
LOL

Wait until UTG comes out with a bullet button made from overseas, it will be under $10 on ebay.

Yugo
04-25-2012, 5:02 PM
first im not a communist and if you think these pieces are made in america you need to lay off the pipe....they come from china where they do cost about $5 just like someone said....

tacticalcity
04-25-2012, 5:12 PM
Market sets the price. Capitalism 101.

Yet you go on to tell manufacturers what they should charge for their products, despite the fact that the market is fine with what they charge because their prices do not coincide with the sale price. They should be more fair based on your own perception of what is fair.

Another member says the State should provide them for free.

So again, I say that's Communism.

What you are not taking into account is all the expenses that go way beyond manufacturing costs. Marketing costs, research costs, and frankly paying themselves enough to make it worth their effort. Frankly, at only $15-20 bucks a pop - it is probably not worth the effort. Way too small a nitch market. I'm grateful they are doing it all. Especially for the huge varitey of guns they make them for. They come out with them for new models all the time.

Darren Prince, the inventor of the Bullet Button and Prince50 magazine lock, is not sitting on his hands. He is constantly improving his products. Or did you not know he is one of the original Calguns members and a forum favorite here?

Then you come along and gripe about the price. As if he is not doing us a service by making his invention publically available in the first place. That is called biting the hand that feeds you...also a trait often exhibited by communists. Keep it up and we won't have them at all.

SoCalSig1911
04-25-2012, 5:27 PM
first im not a communist and if you think these pieces are made in america you need to lay off the pipe....they come from china where they do cost about $5 just like someone said....

Raddlock, Vamfire, Prince50, etc.. All made in the USA.. When you're wrong just admit you're wrong and move along :)

Yugo
04-25-2012, 5:48 PM
Because people are greedy. You can get one made for under 3 bucks in china. Anything made in the US will cost you more.

Raddlock, Vamfire, Prince50, etc.. All made in the USA.. When you're wrong just admit you're wrong and move along :)

:o moving along, ordered from amazon $12.95 each

toby
04-25-2012, 7:23 PM
They are NOT expensive... We are talking about $20 so that you can own an AR-15 in CA.. I mean Really, you're going to shell out $700-2000+ on an AR and then complain about the $20 BB?

So cheap that the Star of David in my avatar is :facepalm:

I was only answering the OP's question I'm not the one who said they were expensive.

jbush
04-25-2012, 7:36 PM
I'm always fastanated by posts like this, especially if you have never run a business or understand the overhead and labor cost. We run a retail store that manufactures our product to order. Every once in a while i get a low ball competitor that opens near by and they usually last about 3 to 6 months and go out of business. I run my cost structure against theirs and I almost always find they don't understand labors costs at all and some don't understand their overhead. It use to worry me when they would open, but now we just wait for their closing. We've been around for 26 years now and I've watched dozens of these shops come and go. Running a business is expensive, running a business in California is worse, there's a ton of hidden costs that the public never sees.

SoCalSig1911
04-25-2012, 7:43 PM
I was only answering the OP's question I'm not the one who said they were expensive.

Sorry i wasn't clear, the only thing i meant towards your comment was that they are not expensive.. The rest i meant towards the people that are complaining and missing the point, that there shouldn't be a BB at all.

VictorFranko
04-25-2012, 8:20 PM
first im not a communist and if you think these pieces are made in america you need to lay off the pipe....they come from china where they do cost about $5 just like someone said....

Looks who's smokin' the pipe!
You asked a Calguns machinist to make up a thousand and sell them to Calgunners for $5-$6 each, and makes lots of money (:p), or did you forget that?
Now you say that they come from China and cost $5 to make.........:facepalm:

WTSGDYBBR
04-25-2012, 10:35 PM
Yugo you found the source. That guy has Ar type bullet buttons as well. Yea there knock offs but hell who cares its about being legal right. Pm hem on mass quinty he will hook you up. I went to high school with that guy. So the people who want to pay out there ars go for it. I will never get raped paying 35+Bucks for a mag lock.

:o moving along, ordered from amazon $12.95 each

tacticalcity
04-25-2012, 10:41 PM
Yugo you found the source. That guy has Ar type bullet buttons as well. Yea there knock offs but hell who cares its about being legal right. Pm hem on mass quinty he will hook you up. I went to high school with that guy. So the people who want to pay out there ars go for it. I will never get raped paying 35+Bucks for a mag lock.

You trying to get a life time ban? You are knowingly encouraging people to buy knockoff products from your high school buddy? Inventor and owner of the patent is a Calguns member. We don't treat our fellow members that way. Not if we want to keep being a member.

tacticalcity
04-25-2012, 10:43 PM
I'm always fastanated by posts like this, especially if you have never run a business or understand the overhead and labor cost. We run a retail store that manufactures our product to order. Every once in a while i get a low ball competitor that opens near by and they usually last about 3 to 6 months and go out of business. I run my cost structure against theirs and I almost always find they don't understand labors costs at all and some don't understand their overhead. It use to worry me when they would open, but now we just wait for their closing. We've been around for 26 years now and I've watched dozens of these shops come and go. Running a business is expensive, running a business in California is worse, there's a ton of hidden costs that the public never sees.

Exactly!

joek
04-25-2012, 10:50 PM
That's one reason why the Hammerhead is priced about $20 less than our nearest competitor. Because our nationwide customers who buy magazines, AR-15 stocks, holographic sights or any of the other 10,999 other parts on our store are helping to pay off the outrageous tooling costs on that CA compliance part.

To answer the OP's question we sell the Bullet Button for $18.95 and no shipping charge (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/assault-planet-ar-bullet-button-609.html) for CA compliance parts.

Thanks for supporting us CA buyers! Just bought 2 bullet buttons from you guys and i'll be sure to check your website in the future when i need something else. :thumbsup:

AlliedArmory
04-26-2012, 2:27 AM
How do you know this?



How do you know this?





I'm guessing the firearms accessory industry runs on a 40% mark-up, there abouts.
So....the manufacturer of the BB sells the $20 BB to the dealer for $12.
Here's a short list of the manufacturers costs to produce that whopping $12 profit:

Mortgage or rent on the building
Utilities (much higher than your home)
Employee payroll
Employee state and federal taxes
Employee 401K contribution
Employee health plan
Fire and liability insurance
Cost of machinery
Cost of materials
Packaging materials
Shipping materials
Printed materials such as installation instructions
Product liability insurance
Plating
Business license fees
and so much more.............

It's funny, people always think machinists should work for free, next-near to free or for a six-pack of beer.
I had a neighbor ask me to make him a mandrel for his hole saw (for installing door knobs) that he lost. I reached in my pocket, pulled out $2, handed it to him and told him to go the hardware store and buy himself one.


If this were true I would be a rich man.

VictorFranko
04-26-2012, 4:46 AM
If this were true I would be a rich man.

The 40% mark? That was just a guess..........
Please let us know what the firearm accessory mark-up is, will you?

zfields
04-26-2012, 4:52 AM
The 40% mark? That was just a guess..........
Please let us know what the firearm accessory mark-up is, will you?

Most the vendor pricing sheets I have gotten are between 30 and 40 %. Ammo is far lower.

Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2

44fred
04-26-2012, 6:24 AM
Quick question

How do you (manufacture in China) decide what your customer (importer) will charge (wholesale) for a product that will eventually be sold retail?

Long story short, I see prices all over the board for cheap parts for whatever. If you are looking for anything, do a search and a part can be as cheap as $4.00 or as high as $15.00. Paying duty on $4.00 or $15.00 each would be a huge variance not to mention supply and demand variations in different states/regions etc.

Judging by the accent of the OP, I would say he doesn't care much about supporting a "local" manufacture. Supporting "USA made" has been brought up several times and the OP has not responded to it once. Maybe now?

Boltz
04-26-2012, 6:26 AM
Yugo you found the source. That guy has Ar type bullet buttons as well. Yea there knock offs but hell who cares its about being legal right. Pm hem on mass quinty he will hook you up. I went to high school with that guy. So the people who want to pay out there ars go for it. I will never get raped paying 35+Bucks for a mag lock.

Wow man, so it's about the almighty dollar to you then. Figures that you are in the import business :rolleyes:

Spyder
04-26-2012, 7:06 AM
Yea there knock offs but hell who cares its about being legal right.

That's absolutely not "what it's about."

Yugo
04-26-2012, 7:19 AM
I support enough US made stuff, I order from companies that are here on Cal Guns all the time but sometimes I want to save a little money and get china knock off so sue me especially something like a BB you guys even said you really make no money off of them so.....I get it from the reds.

clutchy
04-26-2012, 7:24 AM
rape?!?

oh please; I welcome those that took the risk and devised this device so that i can have a black rifle.

are you ignoring the idea and engineering?

Farrier-1
04-26-2012, 7:35 AM
Because people are greedy. You can get one made for under 3 bucks in china. Anything made in the US will cost you more.

This is exactly what's wrong with America today

chead
04-26-2012, 7:41 AM
Support the folks who made the Bullet Button a reality. It's easy to make knock-offs, it's much more difficult to be the first, especially with a product that was such an easy target for harassment by the CA DOJ.

Also, they do require some level of precision to manufacture properly. How annoyed would you be if you bought a bullet button that didn't fit or work properly?

And hasn't everyone learned their lesson regarding Chinese gun parts yet?

VictorFranko
04-26-2012, 8:03 AM
That's absolutely not "what it's about."

This is exactly what's wrong with America today

Been thinking the same thing about this guy.....

dfletcher
04-26-2012, 8:03 AM
Well it sounds like $5.00 or $6.00 is very important to a few folks. :confused:

Big bucks latest electronics - check.

Bottled water - check.

Cable TV - check.

Pay "too much" buying from the folks who laid out money to bring a product to market ..... :eek:

And please, spare me any "it's not the $$$ it's the principle" rejoinders.

But that's the way the free market works. The guy importing knock offs from China is just as a much a part of it as the guy who creates and makes the product right here. I'd rather buy from the folks who make it here.

calif 15-22
04-26-2012, 8:30 AM
So again, I say that's Communism.

Darren Prince, the inventor of the Bullet Button and Prince50 magazine lock, is not sitting on his hands. He is constantly improving his products. Or did you not know he is one of the original Calguns members and a forum favorite here?

Then you come along and gripe about the price. As if he is not doing us a service by making his invention publically available in the first place. That is called biting the hand that feeds you...also a trait often exhibited by communists. Keep it up and we won't have them at all.

+1 Tacticalcity you do have a way to try to help people see the light. Well done sir.

Raddlock, Vamfire, Prince50, etc.. All made in the USA.. When you're wrong just admit you're wrong and move along :)

Made in the USA used to be a proud thing, now everyone just wants the cheap thing. SoCalSig is right move along sir . . . take your imported BB and move along.

Yugo you found the source. That guy has Ar type bullet buttons as well. Yea there knock offs but hell who cares its about being legal right. Pm hem on mass quinty he will hook you up. I went to high school with that guy. So the people who want to pay out there ars go for it. I will never get raped paying 35+Bucks for a mag lock.

Paying $35 bucks on a $6 part is being raped?? You sir are very missinformed about rape. I believe the word you are looking for is "Overpay".

The Patent holders and Vendors here on Calguns deserve to make a profit. Hell they deserve to make whatever they can. That's called Capitalism and it's a really cool thing we have in America.

They put there time and money on the line to provide a product others want. If you don't agree that's fine, but to come onto a forum they support to tell others how to get "hooked up" it not right. Sure you can always find it cheaper. Sure I could order my knockoff whatever from China. I just choose not to.

Everyone wants it cheap and then complain when it goes overseas.

hossb7
04-26-2012, 8:38 AM
The state should be providing free bullet buttons to everyone in my opinion.

Uh, no.

44fred
04-26-2012, 8:45 AM
I support enough US made stuff, I order from companies that are here on Cal Guns all the time but sometimes I want to save a little money and get china knock off so sue me especially something like a BB you guys even said you really make no money off of them so.....I get it from the reds.

Enough said.

wsmc27
04-26-2012, 9:57 AM
http://diverdan363.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/boycott-china.gif?w=200

:D

If we run a BB it's proudly made in the U.S.A.

WTSGDYBBR
04-26-2012, 10:06 AM
Tacticalcity your full of it . You need to get your story right first. "Inventor and owner of the patent is a Calguns member." This is a joke right ? Do you know how many people made the AK-Style bullet button ? Do you know how many Types there out there ? I see your a upset vender now because someone has got into your market so your having a fit. Push for a lifetime ban for me and see how long it last. Your a JOKE !!!!


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Default Clones, Counterfeits and Replicas
Clones, also known as Counterfeits, are items that are made to duplicate an existing item and carry the same markings and/or titles as the original item.
For example, a clone of a Trijicon ACOG that bears any or all of the same titles or markings as an actual Trijicon ACOG is a counterfeit item and illegal based on both Patent and Trademark violations.

Replicas are items that are similar to and/or function the same as an existing item but do NOT carry any markings or titles in common with the original item.
Bushnell, Barska and many AirSoft manufacturers make replicas of the Trijicon ACOG. They look similar to and function in a similar manner as the Trijicon ACOG but they are not marked in any way like a Trijicon ACOG. These are legal items that share a common use and similar appearance but do not infringe on existing Patents or Trademarks.

Due to the illegality of selling counterfeit/clone items and the fraudulent nature of the clones/counterfeits themselves, selling these items on Calguns.net is not allowed.
If you post a counterfeit/clone item for sale it will be deleted, repeated violations will result in permanent loss of access to the Marketplace forums.

Selling replica items, clearly stated as such and bearing no markings or titles of a similar brand name item is allowed and acceptable. However misrepresenting a replica as an original for sale is of course fraud and will be treated as such.

You trying to get a life time ban? You are knowingly encouraging people to buy knockoff products from your high school buddy? Inventor and owner of the patent is a Calguns member. We don't treat our fellow members that way. Not if we want to keep being a member.



RazzB7 You do know that "your" and "you're" are two separate words, right? (Well, technically one is a word and the other is a contraction.) No RazzB7 I had no clue did you want to come tutor me your welcome.

RazzB7
04-26-2012, 10:15 AM
Tacticalcity your full of it . You need to get your story right first. "Inventor and owner of the patent is a Calguns member." This is a joke right ? Do you know how many people made the AK-Style bullet button ? Do you know how many Types there out there ? I see your a upset vender now because someone has got into your market so your having a fit. Push for a lifetime ban for me and see how long it last. Your a JOKE !!!!

You do know that "your" and "you're" are two separate words, right? (Well, technically one is a word and the other is a contraction.)

TURBOELKY
04-26-2012, 2:35 PM
All I've read on this thread is whaa whaa whaa...
Reality is, the people crying and calling members commies because members are ok saving $ by buying China mag locks, are probably people who drive Toyota and Honda. Or if they've made enough $ selling China mag locks passed off as"American made" (which one vendor here does) they're probably driving a Mercedes or BMW.

The same cry babies probably own an AK--47 or several, which 100% of those originated as imported parts! They probably own a saiga, or a glock! Better yet, maybe they own a sig, or an FN....

Wine about a person buying stuff from China, call them commies, well, you are HYPOCRITES!!! Lmfao! Does anyone realize how many firearm parts are imported!? That cheap wolf Ammo you love....imported!! Your cheap big 5 rifle box...imported!! Your cheap safety glasses, imports lol. Your Smith & Wesson ear plugs, imported!!!

Shall I go on?! Pass me a cheap China lock...

TURBOELKY
04-26-2012, 2:38 PM
Oh, guntotingmonkeyboy....
There's only room for ONE monkeeboi here, you should change your name....

WTSGDYBBR
04-26-2012, 3:15 PM
I love the HYPOCRITES .
Made 100 percent in the USA with a lifetime warranty. Don't settle for cheap imports.
Don't settle for cheap imports. How many of these dealers sell 100% Us Made AK's ? I bet zero. China makes very well Ak's .


http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af133/wtsgdybbr/Removeimages.jpg

zfields
04-26-2012, 3:54 PM
I love the HYPOCRITES .
Made 100 percent in the USA with a lifetime warranty. Don't settle for cheap imports.
Don't settle for cheap imports. How many of these dealers sell 100% Us Made AK's ? I bet zero. China makes very well Ak's .


http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af133/wtsgdybbr/Removeimages.jpg

Chinese made aks and cheap knock off bullet buttons....apples and oranges.

Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2

vta
04-26-2012, 4:23 PM
Go buy some materials and rent a cnc mill. Run off a couple thousand of them and sell them to us for 5 bucks a piece. Thanks.

Moonshine
04-26-2012, 4:28 PM
Bullet Buttons are only sold when someone builds a rifle or imports on into California. They are only used in one state and are only used as a single part of a rifle. There is no reason to own more than 1 for each rifle you have. Therefore, to keep a business running (which also isn't cheap in this state) they have to cost much more than manufacturing costs. That's my guess anyhow.

tacticalcity
04-26-2012, 4:42 PM
Tacticalcity your full of it . You need to get your story right first. "Inventor and owner of the patent is a Calguns member." This is a joke right ? Do you know how many people made the AK-Style bullet button ? Do you know how many Types there out there ? I see your a upset vender now because someone has got into your market so your having a fit. Push for a lifetime ban for me and see how long it last. Your a JOKE !!!!


First, direct attacks like calling me a "Joke" are a bannable offense. So you are on a winning streak.

Second, you specifically said they were knockoffs. Your word. Not mine. I simply repeated what you admitted to.

Third, Darren Prince owns the patent to most of the bullet button type devices and I am pretty sure he owns the term bullet button itself. Darren got there first, and used it first. There are many legal similar devices that came along later. They are legal because they are just different enough not to violate his patents or trademarks. There are also plenty of direct and actual knockoffs that do violate his patents and trademarks. You said in your past that they were knockoffs, thus the later.

Fourth, I don't sell bullet buttons. Haven't for almost 6 years. So how exactly are my comments personally financially motivated like you claim? They are not. I simply do not like the way you are treating your fellow Calguns members and I don't like your attitude. You are behaving inappropriately and I am calling you on it. The only thing I have at stake here is I don't want to see someone I admire and respect and who did so much to bring the AR back to California get ripped off and badmouthed by you. Darren Prince is a great guy and deserves better.

WTSGDYBBR
04-26-2012, 7:37 PM
This thread in general has nothing to do with Darren Prince. No one in this thread talked about Prince 50 knock off bullet button. If you would pay attention to any post made on here we were talking about a AK-Style mag locks. Now for the record for you making up drama "Drama Queen"" think twice before you try to insult someone. This is the sec time you have said the word ban to me. I typically don't argue with children or alter ego people living in a fairytale world. So word of advice a bad business recommendation goes a long way then a direct attack. Read who attacks who. What a JOKE !!!!!!!!!


First, direct attacks like calling me a "Joke" are a bannable offense. So you are on a winning streak.

Second, you specifically said they were knockoffs. Your word. Not mine. I simply repeated what you admitted to.

Third, Darren Prince owns the patent to most of the bullet button type devices and I am pretty sure he owns the term bullet button itself. Darren got there first, and used it first. There are many legal similar devices that came along later. They are legal because they are just different enough not to violate his patents or trademarks. There are also plenty of direct and actual knockoffs that do violate his patents and trademarks. You said in your past that they were knockoffs, thus the later.

Fourth, I don't sell bullet buttons. Haven't for almost 6 years. So how exactly are my comments personally financially motivated like you claim? They are not. I simply do not like the way you are treating your fellow Calguns members and I don't like your attitude. You are behaving inappropriately and I am calling you on it. The only thing I have at stake here is I don't want to see someone I admire and respect and who did so much to bring the AR back to California get ripped off and badmouthed by you. Darren Prince is a great guy and deserves better.

zfields
04-26-2012, 7:42 PM
This thread in general has nothing to do with Darren Prince. No one in this thread talked about Prince 50 knock off bullet button. If you would pay attention to any post made on here we were talking about a AK-Style mag locks. Now for the record for you making up drama "Drama Queen"" think twice before you try to insult someone. This is the sec time you have said the word ban to me. I typically don't argue with children or alter ego people living in a fairytale world. So word of advice a bad business recommendation goes a long way then a direct attack. Read who attacks who. What a JOKE !!!!!!!!!


OP was about AR 15 BBs :chris:

WTSGDYBBR
04-26-2012, 7:53 PM
OP was about AR 15 BBs :chris:

I went back and saw that Yugo posted about AR BBs . If you go back and see my attachments you will see a AK-Style mag lock I posted. This thread all started about cost of manufacturing product . Then people got into a pissing match about whats legal and not legal / copyright infringements . Read Kestryll rules in the market place about this. I also have NEVER sold any mag locks on this site. I also know Yugo would not be stupid enough to try to rip someones work off. There are tons of Mags locks out there . No one every used the name Darren Prince on here.


http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af133/wtsgdybbr/PICT0538.jpg

Solid Foundation
04-26-2012, 7:54 PM
Well dammit, I pee further than any of you!

zfields
04-26-2012, 7:56 PM
I went back and saw that Yugo posted about AR BBs . If you go back and see my attachments you will see a AK-Style mag lock I posted. This thread all started about cost of manufacturing product . Then people got into a pissing match about whats legal and not legal / copyright infringements . Read Kestryll rules in the market place about this. I also have NEVER sold any mag locks on this site.



I was giving you crap.

This whole thread stinks at this point.

drifter2be
04-26-2012, 8:01 PM
Well dammit, I pee further than any of you!

LOL. That was the post this thread needed.

Baconator
04-26-2012, 8:05 PM
Why don't you two just have sex and get it over with.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

WTSGDYBBR
04-26-2012, 8:14 PM
I hear you bro no hard feeling about it. There just no point for someone to get jump the gun and assume someone is going to rip someone patent off.

There are many legal similar devices that came along later. They are legal because they are just different enough not to violate his patents or trademarks.


As posted in bold we know there is a legal way to not violate a trademark. No one was every trying to waste there time to do so. I own 100 knock off AK Style mag locks that's more then ill ever use. I will never buy another one for the rest of my life. But if you get the time search the thread for the name Darren Prince or Darren Prince product and when did someone bring it up. I can tell you were the miss understanding comes into a factor over a common used word that is trade marked. Everyone uses that name so its kinda common .


I was giving you crap.

This whole thread stinks at this point.

Spyder
04-26-2012, 8:15 PM
I'd pay to never see it!

arsilva32
04-26-2012, 10:44 PM
wow this has been a entertaining read. its amusing how such a retarded post can keep people going for so long.this one should already be 3 pages back:gene:

glockwise2000
04-26-2012, 10:59 PM
How many BBs do you need? The AR itself cost from upper hundreds to a couple of thousand. Bullets itself is expensive to feed. What is 20 to 30 bucks more to be compliant. It's not like you feed BBs everytime you shoot.

CSACANNONEER
04-27-2012, 6:04 AM
How many BBs do you need? The AR itself cost from upper hundreds to a couple of thousand. Bullets itself is expensive to feed. What is 20 to 30 bucks more to be compliant. It's not like you feed BBs everytime you shoot.

Really? I just put one together last week.

$150 used CZ .22lr upper with optics and three mags off this site
$69 new houge free float tube and grip
$69 LPK
$10 used stock
$15 buffer tube
$100 lower plus DROS

For less than $100 more, I could have used one of several $300 5.56 uppers I've picked up here. It's not hard to end up with a reliable AR for less than $500 if you shop around.

Then again, the other AR I assembled last week was a little more expensive. I used one of the previously mentioned $300 uppers, a U15 stock, an ADDAX billet lower and a LPK.

While I have spare BBs and even a few P50s laying around, I didn't use them on either build.

peter95
04-27-2012, 6:44 AM
Raddlock, Vamfire, Prince50, etc.. All made in the USA.. When you're wrong just admit you're wrong and move along :)

I wouldn't be surprised if they were actually made in china.... :cool2:

To answer the original question, they sell them for that much because its something we need to own a legal Rifle. Now, even if it was $50, we would still buy it because, again.... We still need it!

Spyder
04-27-2012, 7:20 AM
CSA...where the heck did you find a .22 upper for that? I want it!

CSACANNONEER
04-27-2012, 9:25 AM
It was in the marketplace.

duraglock
04-27-2012, 10:33 AM
Guys those AK-locks are knockoffs of my gen 1 design I released here on Cal guns first.I designed it between rotations overseas doing contracting work. I needed to train with an AK on my off time and I wanted a lock that allowed for reloading the weapon as if the lock was not on it to maintain muscle memory.My design allowed that with the mounting system,angle and speed slot. Difference is we have made our locks in Hayward California and in the USA since day 1. We got approached to have them made in China by the same guy who is now importing the knockoffs. That is what this guy does he just sells cheap copies of this and other American made products but we continue to make our products here in the USA. I live in California and we are a California based company . We have our gen 2 AK series maglock which is an improved version. Thanks to all the Cal gunners who have supported us since day 1. Look for 2 new American made products we are going to release on CAlguns first.

TURBOELKY
04-28-2012, 9:16 PM
Guys those AK-locks are knockoffs of my gen 1 design I released here on Cal guns first.I designed it between rotations overseas doing contracting work. I needed to train with an AK on my off time and I wanted a lock that allowed for reloading the weapon as if the lock was not on it to maintain muscle memory.My design allowed that with the mounting system,angle and speed slot. Difference is we have made our locks in Hayward California and in the USA since day 1. We got approached to have them made in China by the same guy who is now importing the knockoffs. That is what this guy does he just sells cheap copies of this and other American made products but we continue to make our products here in the USA. I live in California and we are a California based company . We have our gen 2 AK series maglock which is an improved version. Thanks to all the Cal gunners who have supported us since day 1. Look for 2 new American made products we are going to release on CAlguns first.

How would a Guy HUNDREDS of miles away who doesnt sell gun parts or reproduce gun parts, end up with your lock wanting to reproduce it for you? Also, saying " this is what this guy does", kind of sounds like your familiar with him.. idk, i could be wrong, but its just odd. Also, not to bash, but your locks are a little expensive bud.

chead
04-28-2012, 11:31 PM
How would a Guy HUNDREDS of miles away who doesnt sell gun parts or reproduce gun parts, end up with your lock wanting to reproduce it for you? Also, saying " this is what this guy does", kind of sounds like your familiar with him.. idk, i could be wrong, but its just odd. Also, not to bash, but your locks are a little expensive bud.

If you're a Callgunner and don't support Solar Tactical.. I don't know what to tell you.

Palmaris
04-29-2012, 6:41 AM
A week ago I bought one from Amazon for $9.99+free shipping. But it was some shop from Chino, so there was some tax. Now that shop selling them for $15.99

TURBOELKY
04-29-2012, 8:25 AM
If you're a Callgunner and don't support Solar Tactical.. I don't know what to tell you.

Uh, ok.

That's like saying "if your German and don't buy a BMW, I don't know what to tell you"...

I support solar tactical 100%, I just don't buy from him.;)

rbetts
10-08-2012, 3:24 PM
So you support him 20% then.

JayBeeJay
10-08-2012, 3:53 PM
If $20-30 is too much maybe you should just shoot rimfire rifles.

wash
10-08-2012, 4:41 PM
I've paid more than that for a table dance.

The Assault Planet Bullet Button is a better value.

(aside from the fact that we shouldn't have to have them)

m03
10-08-2012, 6:21 PM
So you support him 20% then.

Resurrecting a 6 month old thread. Very classy :)

CK_32
10-08-2012, 6:36 PM
Resurrecting a 6 month old thread. Very classy :)

I know I was like wow havnt seen this thread before really must be an interesting topic to have 4 pages in 2 seconds... Oh wait :cool2:


But to answer the question for the hell of it lol


Your hobby is expensive.. Why would you think a BB would be any different. But there are many expenses that go into a lot of things.. And most places make just enough profit to stay above water.. Even tho it might be $1 to make and cost us $50 there is still probably about $45 of employee wage insurance rent machinery shipping the list goes on..

Or else everyone would be making them for their own rifles..

ssaction
10-08-2012, 7:07 PM
Please.

If KAC, Noveske or BCM made bullet buttons, all of you cheapskates who are whining would pay $50 for one :p

The mall ninjas would certainly buy them.

Dinosaur Jr
10-08-2012, 7:31 PM
I know I was like wow havnt seen this thread before really must be an interesting topic to have 4 pages in 2 seconds... Oh wait :cool2:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-LMxeL3a3_eo/TcqGRDj-EeI/AAAAAAAABAI/QPQvpBwtSPY/s500/necromonger-way.jpg

Virus55
10-08-2012, 8:56 PM
The state should be providing free bullet buttons to everyone in my opinion.

^^^^^^

bohoki
10-08-2012, 10:59 PM
you can find them on the ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-CA-law-Legally-compliant-modle-15-Magazine-Lock-Button-removable-w-Bullet-/261055955783