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View Full Version : Thoughts on Top Shelf ammo.


Ogre8472
04-24-2012, 3:50 PM
Hi all,
This being in a rimfire thread im sure everyone knows that not every rifle or pistol likes the same stuff but I've been searching for the best shooting, by that I want groups, ammo I can find for my rifles.
My Savages love CCI. I cant complain with that because its usually easy to find.
The Henry h001 loves Fiocchi and Remington. Of these two i would consider Fiocchi the quality brand.

The reason behind this post is really this. Ely and Rws and even some other very $$$ stuff i have never had a rifle like. So what makes these brands PREMIUM?

surfNshoot
04-24-2012, 3:54 PM
Izzy will be here shortly to explain but in short you will get what you pay for. The least expensive ammo that I find to shoot VERY well is wolf M/T. I've tried Eley but it is better but not worth the extra money to me. Izzy has had very VERY good results with Lapua.

Sputnik
04-24-2012, 10:51 PM
imo, and I could be wrong, it all comes down to consistency. Over the course of time I've found that the better the ammo the more consistent the group. Eley Tenex, Eley Match and RWS R50 have proven themselves very nicely through the FWB 2602. I'm also going to try out some Wolf match since I've heard good things. In a s/a I'm not sure true match ammo would even be worthwhile. I know I wouldn't waste it in my TacSol AR style carbine, there's just no point.

mkane
04-25-2012, 8:16 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^What he said. You need to protect the projectile using the high end target ammo, hand load each round.

Ogre8472
04-25-2012, 8:46 AM
So in terms of consistently getting the same fps and bullet weight is really the desiding factors in premium ammo?
I can see performance in terms of groups being better in brand A vs brand X but is the price for such amm just doesnt justify for me. I understand Ely and RWS are up there in price and reputation but none i have ever used gave me that "wow" factor in groups.
Maybe my guns just like the cheap stuff.:cool:

greybeard
04-25-2012, 8:57 AM
We also have to take in to account that each gun will have a preference for some ammo brands over others

Izzy43
04-25-2012, 9:09 AM
Hi all,
This being in a rimfire thread im sure everyone knows that not every rifle or pistol likes the same stuff but I've been searching for the best shooting, by that I want groups, ammo I can find for my rifles.
My Savages love CCI. I cant complain with that because its usually easy to find.
The Henry h001 loves Fiocchi and Remington. Of these two i would consider Fiocchi the quality brand.

The reason behind this post is really this. Ely and Rws and even some other very $$$ stuff i have never had a rifle like. So what makes these brands PREMIUM?

As most of us should know by now .22 rifles can be picky beasts when it comes to the ammo that they will shoot accurately. The first thought I always have when discussing accuracy is that not everyone's definition of accuracy is the same. I prefer to think in terms of precision. The variables that make a rifle precise are the rifle itself, the ammunition, the sights and the biggest variable, the shooter.

In my opinion (and that's all it is), a precision rifle will shoot MOA or less, 1/4" five shot groups @25yds, 1/2" five shot groups @ 50yds and 1" five shot groups @ 100yds or less. An accurate rifle will hit a squirrel or soda can between 25 and 75 yds. All my rifles, except my Henry Frontier will shoot MOA to 75 yds and some to 100yds. However, I can't say the same for me all the time.

I should add that testing ammo for accuracy (or precision) in the .22 world should be done @ 50yds and to really see the accuracy, out to 100yds. Most any ammo will shoot pretty good @25yds. A minumum of 10-5 shot groups should be shot after the barrel is seasoned with the test ammo (10 shots minumum). When testing I run a boresnake thru the barrel when

As far as ammo goes there are some well proven facts.

1. Standard velocity (less than 1100fps and less) will be more consistant than High Velocity ammo and therefore more accurate.
2. Consistancy is based upon the ammo having the same or nearly the same velocity leaving the barrel on every shot with a very small variation in velocity spread.

Premium .22 ammo goes thru a quality check that bulk ammo does not. An example is Wolf ammo. A box of ammo is picked from the production line and fired thru a test rifle to determine if it meets a specific set of parameters. If it does the ammo is packaged as Wolf Match Extra. If it fails that test it goes thru further testing with less stringent parameters and if it passes it is
packaged as Wolf Match Target. If it fails that test it is not sold as Wolf Match ammo.

Bulk ammo is manufactured, packaged and shipped. Their are exceptions to this such as Federal Automatch. It is Federal 719 that didn't meet specs.

I have done a lot of testing with over 30 types of .22 ammo from bulk to Tenex thru 6 different rifles. For my rifles I found that Wolf Match Target was the most consistant in all of them. The second most consistant in all my rifles is Aguila Match Pistol. The most precise ammo in two rifles is Lapua Center-X. Shoots great but at twice the price of Wolf Match Target it is not that much more precise. RWS did not shoot good for me, Eley Team, Match and Club shot about the same as Wolf MT but costs more.

For any .22 ammo to be consistant it must have the following.

1. Consistant primer ignition.
2. Consistant powder burn.
3. Consistant bullet weight and lubrication.
4. Consistant case rim thickness.
5. Consistant firing pin strike.

Variations in the above parameters will cause flyers which is common with bulk ammo.

You will not find this in any bulk ammo or any ammo that is not quality checked during manufacture. QC checks cost money so mid and high grade .22 ammo will cost more. Then there is the rifle and the shooter.

This has been my experience thru shooting, reading and asking questions about .22 ammo. I don't claim to be an expert but sharing my experience here. I am primarily a target shooter so precision is what I demand of my rifles, ammo and me. Sorry to be so long in the post but its a complex subject.

Those who might be looking for that low cost .22 ammo that will shoot bughole groups will almost certainly be disappointed. Been there, done that and its like looking for the Holy Grail.

No persons or animals were intentionally harmed or insulted during this post. :taz::taz::taz:

stalker
04-25-2012, 11:23 AM
If you end up shooting the Wolf Match and Wolf Match Target make sure you keep a towel around because those thing s are dripping with Lube when they come out of the box

Insert wife/girlfriend joke here..................

mkane
04-25-2012, 7:51 PM
Hows this for wow. Groups in the first row are 10 shot groups, the rest are 5 shot grouphttp://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll58/MKane63t/001-7.jpgs. 50yds.

Ogre8472
04-25-2012, 9:13 PM
Damn...Izzy i need an instructor like you. The stuff i know is what ive learned threw experience alone. I know i need to try every brand of ammo i can get my hands on just to keep my knowledge and list of what my rifles do and dont like. I guess next on my lise is Wolf match. Thanks everyone! :cool:

Fractured
04-25-2012, 9:45 PM
As most of us should know by now .22 rifles can be picky beasts when it comes to the ammo that they will shoot accurately. The first thought I always have when discussing accuracy is that not everyone's definition of accuracy is the same. I prefer to think in terms of precision. The variables that make a rifle precise are the rifle itself, the ammunition, the sights and the biggest variable, the shooter.

In my opinion (and that's all it is), a precision rifle will shoot MOA or less, 1/4" five shot groups @25yds, 1/2" five shot groups @ 50yds and 1" five shot groups @ 100yds or less. An accurate rifle will hit a squirrel or soda can between 25 and 75 yds. All my rifles, except my Henry Frontier will shoot MOA to 75 yds and some to 100yds. However, I can't say the same for me all the time.

I should add that testing ammo for accuracy (or precision) in the .22 world should be done @ 50yds and to really see the accuracy, out to 100yds. Most any ammo will shoot pretty good @25yds. A minumum of 10-5 shot groups should be shot after the barrel is seasoned with the test ammo (10 shots minumum). When testing I run a boresnake thru the barrel when

As far as ammo goes there are some well proven facts.

1. Standard velocity (less than 1100fps and less) will be more consistant than High Velocity ammo and therefore more accurate.
2. Consistancy is based upon the ammo having the same or nearly the same velocity leaving the barrel on every shot with a very small variation in velocity spread.

Premium .22 ammo goes thru a quality check that bulk ammo does not. An example is Wolf ammo. A box of ammo is picked from the production line and fired thru a test rifle to determine if it meets a specific set of parameters. If it does the ammo is packaged as Wolf Match Extra. If it fails that test it goes thru further testing with less stringent parameters and if it passes it is
packaged as Wolf Match Target. If it fails that test it is not sold as Wolf Match ammo.

Bulk ammo is manufactured, packaged and shipped. Their are exceptions to this such as Federal Automatch. It is Federal 719 that didn't meet specs.

I have done a lot of testing with over 30 types of .22 ammo from bulk to Tenex thru 6 different rifles. For my rifles I found that Wolf Match Target was the most consistant in all of them. The second most consistant in all my rifles is Aguila Match Pistol. The most precise ammo in two rifles is Lapua Center-X. Shoots great but at twice the price of Wolf Match Target it is not that much more precise. RWS did not shoot good for me, Eley Team, Match and Club shot about the same as Wolf MT but costs more.

For any .22 ammo to be consistant it must have the following.

1. Consistant primer ignition.
2. Consistant powder burn.
3. Consistant bullet weight and lubrication.
4. Consistant case rim thickness.
5. Consistant firing pin strike.

Variations in the above parameters will cause flyers which is common with bulk ammo.

You will not find this in any bulk ammo or any ammo that is not quality checked during manufacture. QC checks cost money so mid and high grade .22 ammo will cost more. Then there is the rifle and the shooter.

This has been my experience thru shooting, reading and asking questions about .22 ammo. I don't claim to be an expert but sharing my experience here. I am primarily a target shooter so precision is what I demand of my rifles, ammo and me. Sorry to be so long in the post but its a complex subject.

Those who might be looking for that low cost .22 ammo that will shoot bughole groups will almost certainly be disappointed. Been there, done that and its like looking for the Holy Grail.

No persons or animals were intentionally harmed or insulted during this post. :taz::taz::taz:

Great post, thank you.

Tank 57
04-25-2012, 10:03 PM
I have had great results with the Wolf match target.Really shines in my S&W 41.First box shot so well,I was tempted to go home before I missed a shot and ruined a great target.