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View Full Version : New uzi carbine!


13204u
04-23-2012, 10:35 PM
Well it took about a year to put this thing together when time and spare cash allowed, but I am pretty pleased with the outcome. It is a nodak receiver on an Israeli kit. Has a fixed stock courtesy of jj custom, and the railed fore end is a barrelxchange piece. Overall I am super stoked to take this guy out here shortly. Just gotta block some rebuild kits and all will be well. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/forsaken4u/101_0045.jpg

ElvenSoul
04-23-2012, 10:47 PM
Lot of Uzi Action on CalGuns of late. :)

Looks Sweet!

Jeepers
04-23-2012, 10:52 PM
nice :thumbsup:

i am still collecting parts for my .45acp build just havnt decided yet if i am going to go full sized pistol or carbine:43:

chead
04-24-2012, 1:01 PM
I've been thinking about that railed grip for a while. Glad to see it in the wild!

Capybara
04-24-2012, 1:34 PM
Looking good man. I just ordered a spare bolt for my Vector from No Dak Spud.

Chead, am I correct in thinking that the foregrip is a no go on a featureless Uzi?

13204u
04-24-2012, 7:12 PM
Looking good man. I just ordered a spare bolt for my Vector from No Dak Spud.

Chead, am I correct in thinking that the foregrip is a no go on a featureless Uzi?

Yeah, vertical grip not ok on featureless, hence the bullet button grip panel.

13204u
04-24-2012, 7:13 PM
I've been thinking about that railed grip for a while. Glad to see it in the wild!

It took a little while to get, but very nice and way worth the price in my opinion. It mounts up rock solid and is very high quality. Probably could have gone with a shorter forward pistol grip, but I had this knights one laying around from an AR build, so why by another?

Capybara
04-24-2012, 7:23 PM
So 13204u, what do you think of the Uzi BB setup? Mine came with it and I found it incredibly bad ergonomically, I had to take out a punch to get enough leverage to release the mag, it took three hands or I had to take the Uzi off and lay it on the table at the range lane to change mags. That's why I went featureless, the stock Uzi mag release is so much better.

Have tried both ways?

LCU1670
04-24-2012, 8:04 PM
On my wife's UZI I dremeled the BB hole a bit farther down. It moved the hole down by the tip of the mag release so now it is much easier to release the mag. I still use a punch though.

Just got her a 45 bolt, mags and barrel from D & D, hope it works well!

13204u
04-24-2012, 8:09 PM
So 13204u, what do you think of the Uzi BB setup? Mine came with it and I found it incredibly bad ergonomically, I had to take out a punch to get enough leverage to release the mag, it took three hands or I had to take the Uzi off and lay it on the table at the range lane to change mags. That's why I went featureless, the stock Uzi mag release is so much better.

Have tried both ways?

While I have not tried it in featureless I can say my grip panel was not perfect from the get go. When tightened down snug it would not allow without great force the mag to drop free. I took a dremel and very slowly made more room under the panel. It works alot better now. I just use an alan key and the mag almost shoots out the bottom. So now I tilt the carbine slightly up, hold with my right hand still on the grip frame and use the alan key, and then after it slides a tiny bit grab the mag. While complicated sounding, this is just a range/plinker toy, so the need for me to reload rapidly on the go is nonexistent. However I can easily see how this could be a persons concern.

Johnnyfres
04-24-2012, 8:14 PM
Very nice, congrats on the build. What is the barrel length on that?

13204u
04-24-2012, 8:35 PM
It's 16" to keep this guy legal. Its balance is somewhat rear heavy due to the stock setup. However it shoulders comfortably. I will say this, it weighs about 11lbs with this setup. Non existent recoil I am guessing.

Capybara
04-24-2012, 8:55 PM
That sounds like a good mod. I probably should have tried that. Still compliant as long as you have to use a tool. The featureless is not a bad way to go either though. If you have to use a tool, even if it is easier than it was, it still feels like juggling to me to change a mag. If you have a table, not a big deal, but of you are shooting freehand at an outdoor firing line, it is so great to be able to just change a mag and not mess with a full mag in one hand, the tool in the other, one holding up the gun, etc.

With the Kydex wrap, you just use your thumb on the mag release, detach empty, load a full one like everyone in a free state does. I don't have a need to do quick mag changes either, but I do like being able to change mags without a tool, particularly when shooting outdoors in the desert or on a firing line. You'll have to live with the BB for a while to see how it fits with how and where you shoot mostly.

While I have not tried it in featureless I can say my grip panel was not perfect from the get go. When tightened down snug it would not allow without great force the mag to drop free. I took a dremel and very slowly made more room under the panel. It works alot better now. I just use an alan key and the mag almost shoots out the bottom. So now I tilt the carbine slightly up, hold with my right hand still on the grip frame and use the alan key, and then after it slides a tiny bit grab the mag. While complicated sounding, this is just a range/plinker toy, so the need for me to reload rapidly on the go is nonexistent. However I can easily see how this could be a persons concern.

fighterpilot562
04-24-2012, 10:27 PM
Looks sweet

13204u
04-25-2012, 4:26 AM
With the Kydex wrap, you just use your thumb on the mag release, detach empty, load a full one like everyone in a free state does. I don't have a need to do quick mag changes either, but I do like being able to change mags without a tool, particularly when shooting outdoors in the desert or on a firing line. You'll have to live with the BB for a while to see how it fits with how and where you shoot mostly.

Yeah, we will see how long this lasts. Though I admit, while I have the patience for stupid stuff like this I also really like the original release quite abit more.

ElvenSoul
04-25-2012, 3:38 PM
With a Featureless what do you do about the grip safety?

ke6guj
04-25-2012, 3:48 PM
With a Featureless what do you do about the grip safety?you pin it down.

Capybara
04-25-2012, 4:23 PM
I used a zip tie, it is under the wrap, you can't see it. It does make me a little nervous that once you have inserted the mag and chambered a round, all you have is the manual safety, you no longer have the grip safety. I use the sling 100% of the time so I will never have it loaded and charged where I could drop it but I would be paranoid about if the Uzi would fire if the manual safety was off and the gun was dropped. I like the idea of the PG safety but when you wrap it, you lose that feature.

What do you think Jack? If the Uzi with the wrap was loaded and charged and then dropped, would it go off since the PG safety is depressed? If so, one more reason to always shoot with the sling, much harder to drop the weapon.

SNCaliber
04-25-2012, 4:28 PM
didnt even know they had BBs for uzis, nice piece of work!

ke6guj
04-25-2012, 4:39 PM
"all you have is the manual safety" which means that the UZI is more like every other rifle I own that doesn't have a grip safety.

In my opinion the grip safety is there as a remnant from the open-bolt full-auto design and might not be needed for a closed bolt semi. But since it is just a range-toy for me, I'm not really concerned about it. I've never done a drop-test to see how secure the trigger and striker are.

stix213
04-25-2012, 4:47 PM
I like the looks

gun toting monkeyboy
04-25-2012, 4:48 PM
Very cool looking!

-Mb

Jeepers
04-25-2012, 4:50 PM
"all you have is the manual safety" which means that the UZI is more like every other rifle I own that doesn't have a grip safety.

In my opinion the grip safety is there as a remnant from the open-bolt full-auto design and might not be needed for a closed bolt semi. But since it is just a range-toy for me, I'm not really concerned about it. I've never done a drop-test to see how secure the trigger and striker are.

+1^^^ the grip safety and ratcheting top cover are just extra safeties for the old open bolt ... in S/A it functions just like any other striker fired S/A weapon ....

isnt a glock striker fired and no real safety at all ?

Capybara
04-25-2012, 6:35 PM
What you guys are saying makes sense. If you are a safe shooter and only switch off safety when on target, it is a moot point anyway. If you use a sling, it is a moot point too, you aren't going to drop it.

I just read some threads over on Uzitalk from someone who was an "operator" of some sort and he said that the Uzi had a bad rep in his European country (can't remember where) from firing when accidentally dropped, but I am fairly sure that he was speaking of the FA open bolt and I don't know if it was true anyway.

As far as the Glock, yes, true, but isn't the trigger on the Uzi more the equivalent of a single action trigger like a 1911 more than a DA trigger like the Glock has? It seems as if it would be much harder for a DA action to accidentally fire when dropped than a SA trigger?

Anyway, I don't plan on finding out, I was just curious if anyone who understands firing mechanisms better than I do was going to chime in.

Thanks!

ElvenSoul
04-25-2012, 8:52 PM
Thanks for the info on the safety. Thinking of getting one and mounting a fin to the wood stock hanging down, not wrapped around grip.

vandal
04-25-2012, 10:45 PM
What's the OAL with the stock and 16" barrel, and is the wood stock quick detach?

ke6guj
04-25-2012, 10:49 PM
What's the OAL with the stock and 16" barrel, and is the wood stock quick detach?

OAL is around 31". No, the wood stock does not quick detach. to do so would create an CA AW and an SBR per CA and federal law.

vandal
04-25-2012, 10:52 PM
To avoid that, better to start with a full-size Uzi pistol, and a spare 16" barrel? Then could I have the QD stock if I used it with the 16" barrel?

OAL is around 31". No, the wood stock does not quick detach. to do so would create an CA AW and an SBR per CA and federal law.

Capybara
04-25-2012, 11:22 PM
But the grip safety requires you wrapping your thumb and web of your hand around the PG to activate it so the gun will fire. Can think what having the Kydex coming down from the wooden stock would gain you? You wouldn't be able to fire the gun, unless I am misunderstanding what you are suggesting?

On the Uzi, the grip safety must be pushed in for the gun to fire. A Kydex wrap has to block your hand from wrapping around the grip into order to be legal.

Thanks for the info on the safety. Thinking of getting one and mounting a fin to the wood stock hanging down, not wrapped around grip.

ke6guj
04-26-2012, 7:48 AM
To avoid that, better to start with a full-size Uzi pistol, and a spare 16" barrel? Then could I have the QD stock if I used it with the 16" barrel?

not sure what you are asking here. can you explain your logic here?

Capybara
04-26-2012, 8:53 AM
It sounds as if he is asking if he can start with a pistol and turn it into a rifle? Interesting question, can you affix a QD stock to a pistol as long as you also affix a long enough barrel beforehand? Obviously if you kept the 10" pistol barrel in place, you would create an illegal SBR but with the 16" in place, is there anything in the PC that precludes that? I am pretty sure that QD stocks are a no-no in California. And if you do that, you wouldn't be allowed to turn that rifle back into a pistol? I suspect not but you would know for sure because you are smart that way.

vandal
04-26-2012, 9:18 AM
Here's my logic:

Using the new ATF finding that a pistol can become a rifle and return to a pistol.

Buy uzi pistol (bullet button)
Buy 16" barrel
Buy shoulder stock

Can then migrate between rifle (bullet button or featureless) and pistol configurations as long as you install the 16" barrel first.

not sure what you are asking here. can you explain your logic here?

ke6guj
04-26-2012, 12:22 PM
that would be fine per federal law, but the assumption is that CA would consider it to be an SBR once it was converted from a rifle to pistol.

Jeepers
04-26-2012, 12:43 PM
you can NOT use a QD stock it must be "perm." mount to avoid NFA issues, this can be done in a few ways but from what i have seen its modded by bolting the QD mount to the receiver like this ...

http://www.jjcustomllc.com/mypictures/.pond/Perm_Stock_Plate_Installed.jpg.w300h292.jpg

as far as having parts to convert pistol to carbine around is my hangup also, my plans where to build a S.S. pistol for a range toy and convert later to carbine, but from what i get here is that it not wise to have the parts together here in Ca to convert back and forth due to our own SBR laws ...even tho its legal per BATFE's recent letter ...

vandal
04-26-2012, 1:14 PM
That wouldn't make much sense if it's DROSed as a pistol in the first place.

that would be fine per federal law, but the assumption is that CA would consider it to be an SBR once it was converted from a rifle to pistol.

vandal
04-26-2012, 1:16 PM
I thought that ATF finding applied to guns that started as rifles only to maintain the minimum 26" length.

you can NOT use a QD stock it must be "perm." mount to avoid NFA issues, this can be done in a few ways but from what i have seen its modded by bolting the QD mount to the receiver like this ...
.

Jeepers
04-26-2012, 1:33 PM
I thought that ATF finding applied to guns that started as rifles only to maintain the minimum 26" length.



from uzitalk http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?57243-School-me-on-QD-wood-stock-legality&

The issue is that the federal government does not allow you to include a QD stock in the overall length measurement of a gun. Without the QD stock, an UZI with a standard 16" barrel does not meet the 26" OAL requirement. So you have two choices - either permanently attach the stock, or switch to an 18" barrel.

ETA....

What are the legal issues
regarding barrel lengths and stock options for my UZI?

UZIs may be registered as one of five classifications of
firearm. These are: Machine Gun, Rifle/Carbine, Short Barreled Rifle (SBR), Any
Other Weapon (AOW) or Pistol. Each of these classifications has different legal
requirements for barrel length and overall length (OAL). The status of a rifle
may be changed to (SBR) with an approved ATF form 1. In addition, the state you
reside in may have different legal requirements for barrel lengths and may not
allow some configurations.

Machine Gun: ref. NFA Title II, sec 5845 Any barrel length and stock
configuration is legal. $200.00 Transfer Tax

Rifle/Carbine Title I firearms: 16 inch minimum length barrel as measured
from the end of the barrel or permanently attached accessory, to the bolt face
and a minimum overall length (OAL) of 26 inches with the permanently attached
stock extended. For a semi-auto UZI with a metal folding stock, that means the OAL is measured with the stock open. It can also have a permanently attached
wood stock. If it has a quick-detach wood stock, it must meet the OAL
requirement with the stock off. Note that some states are more restrictive then
these federal regulations.

Short Barreled Rifle (SBR): ref. GCA of 1968 Title I, Chapter 44,921 (7),
(8) Any rifle or Carbine having a barrel less than 16 inches long and an overall
length less than 26 inches with the permanently attached stock, extended.
$200.00 Transfer Tax.

Any Other Weapon (AOW):ref NFA, Title II, sec 5845 (e). Firearms with a
rifled barrel length less than 16 inches or less than 18 inches shotgun, without
a buttstock. This classification allows the use of a vertical forward grip but
prohibits the installation of a buttstock. $5.00 Transfer Tax.

Pistol (Title I): Barrel length 16 inches or less without a buttstock. The pistol must have been originally assembled as a pistol
and not a conversion of a rifle or carbine. A Pistol cannot have a vertical
foregrip.

http://files.uzitalk.com/reference/pages/FAQ.htm

vandal
04-27-2012, 11:21 AM
Thanks, but these references are not satisfying my question.

Start with a registered UZI pistol and install a 16" barrel. What do you have? None of the above, both federally and per CA. IIRC CA law would even allow you to run detachable mags in that config (16" barrel, no stock doesn't meet the definition of an assault pistol or assault rifle).

Now attach the QD stock and you have a legal long gun config (16" barrel, >26" OAL). Remove the QD stock and you're back to long-barrel pistol/"None of the above."

The recent ATF finding allowing a pistol to migrate between legal rifle and legal pistol configs would seem to render the no-QD-stock-on-an-Uzi irrelevant for an Uzi pistol, since a pistol does not have to make 26" and not making 26" is the basis for the prohibition (rifle oriented). As soon as you take the stock off, it reverts to pistol.

ke6guj
04-27-2012, 1:59 PM
Thanks, but these references are not satisfying my question.

Start with a registered UZI pistol and install a 16" barrel. What do you have? None of the above, both federally and per CA. IIRC CA law would even allow you to run detachable mags in that config (16" barrel, no stock doesn't meet the definition of an assault pistol or assault rifle).debatable. probable legal but it is highly suggested that you do not attempt this unless you personally have the $$$$ to defend this. CGF does not want to have to defend that case at this time and The Right People have said so in the past.

Now attach the QD stock and you have a legal long gun config (16" barrel, >26" OAL). Remove the QD stock and you're back to long-barrel pistol/"None of the above."based on the new federal opinion, you should be fine. But that does not matter if CA says that once it became a rifle, by going under 26", you have created an SBR.

The recent ATF finding allowing a pistol to migrate between legal rifle and legal pistol configs would seem to render the no-QD-stock-on-an-Uzi irrelevant for an Uzi pistol, since a pistol does not have to make 26" and not making 26" is the basis for the prohibition (rifle oriented). As soon as you take the stock off, it reverts to pistol.that may be true, but remember that this finding is new and that UZIs have been imported as rifles for 40+ years, so you can't go "back to a pistol" when it wasn't one in the first place. Perhaps if you took a factory pistol, you could do what you want, but those pistols were welded up os that a QD stock wouldn't attach to them IIRC.