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View Full Version : $10 .22short pistol?


FuzzyBrows
04-23-2012, 8:52 PM
i thought it was pretty cool he actually made one thats functional.

Av0pEqR5KWs

emsalex
04-23-2012, 9:03 PM
Huh, pretty cool.

morrcarr67
04-23-2012, 9:15 PM
Cool.

ckprax
04-23-2012, 9:18 PM
Very cool.

Bug Splat
04-23-2012, 9:27 PM
Not really impressed. Looks like a $10 gun alright. Someone certainly not me, may have made a 22lr and 38spl pistol when they were 13yo. If the guy made a $10 semi-auto pistol then I would be impressed.

AK all day
04-23-2012, 10:22 PM
What are the legalalitys of this?

Grumpyoldretiredcop
04-23-2012, 10:34 PM
What are the legalalitys of this?

Zip gun. Don't do this in CA. Edit - Possibly a zip gun in CA - or possibly not. In view of information in a following post, this may or may not be true as I was unaware of changes in Federal law upon which subsection (c) rests.

33600. Except as provided in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any zip gun is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison.

17360. As used in this part, "zip gun" means any weapon or device that meets all of the following criteria:

(a) It was not imported as a firearm by an importer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(b) It was not originally designed to be a firearm by a manufacturer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(c) No tax was paid on the weapon or device nor was an exemption from paying tax on that weapon or device granted under Section 4181 and Subchapters F (commencing with Section 4216) and G (commencing with Section 4221) of Chapter 32 of Title 26 of the United States Code, as amended, and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(d) It is made or altered to expel a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion.

frankm
04-24-2012, 1:03 PM
just need some pipe, a nail, etc. why waste tiime?

h0use
04-24-2012, 1:45 PM
very neat

meaty-btz
04-24-2012, 2:19 PM
I don't like the design, but a neat first go for cheap.

I like the paper guns that actually work better.

ke6guj
04-24-2012, 2:33 PM
Zip gun. Don't do this in CA.

33600. Except as provided in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any zip gun is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison.

17360. As used in this part, "zip gun" means any weapon or device that meets all of the following criteria:

(a) It was not imported as a firearm by an importer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(b) It was not originally designed to be a firearm by a manufacturer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(c) No tax was paid on the weapon or device nor was an exemption from paying tax on that weapon or device granted under Section 4181 and Subchapters F (commencing with Section 4216) and G (commencing with Section 4221) of Chapter 32 of Title 26 of the United States Code, as amended, and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(d) It is made or altered to expel a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion.its arguable that that only applies to NFA firearms. It must meet all 4 sections to be considered a zip gun and (c) seems to only apply to NFA tax stamps. AFAIK, it does not apply to FAET taxes, and homebuilt firearms are exempt from FAET.

AragornElessar86
04-24-2012, 3:39 PM
how is an 80% build not a zip gun?

Grumpyoldretiredcop
04-24-2012, 4:51 PM
its arguable that that only applies to NFA firearms. It must meet all 4 sections to be considered a zip gun and (c) seems to only apply to NFA tax stamps. AFAIK, it does not apply to FAET taxes, and homebuilt firearms are exempt from FAET.

Arguable it is, indeed. It's also triable... and arrestable. Ye pays yer money and ye takes yer chances... and my database is small since the only suspect I ever arrested for it got free room and board from the State for it. Perhaps you can argue it better than that unfortunate soul's attorney managed to... :43:

how is an 80% build not a zip gun?

My understanding is that being built to an established design eliminates the subsection (b) prong of 17360.

Peter.Steele
04-24-2012, 6:02 PM
Zip gun. Don't do this in CA.

33600. Except as provided in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any zip gun is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison.

17360. As used in this part, "zip gun" means any weapon or device that meets all of the following criteria:

(a) It was not imported as a firearm by an importer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(b) It was not originally designed to be a firearm by a manufacturer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(c) No tax was paid on the weapon or device nor was an exemption from paying tax on that weapon or device granted under Section 4181 and Subchapters F (commencing with Section 4216) and G (commencing with Section 4221) of Chapter 32 of Title 26 of the United States Code, as amended, and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(d) It is made or altered to expel a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion.

Arguable it is, indeed. It's also triable... and arrestable. Ye pays yer money and ye takes yer chances... and my database is small since the only suspect I ever arrested for it got free room and board from the State for it. Perhaps you can argue it better than that unfortunate soul's attorney managed to... :43:



My understanding is that being built to an established design eliminates the subsection (b) prong of 17360.




There's no argument about it. So long as your home-made firearm is not specifically prohibited by CA (pen guns, etc.), and so long as it's not taxed (AOW's, etc.) and you're making less than (iirc) 50 firearms per year ... guess what? It's completely legal. It's not a loophole. It's the plain language of the law.

Either your suspect had other things going against him or you're bragging about putting someone away for doing something which is completely and explicitly legal. I'm hoping that it's the former, but from what you're saying here ...

ke6guj
04-29-2012, 7:29 PM
Arguable it is, indeed. It's also triable... and arrestable. Ye pays yer money and ye takes yer chances... and my database is small since the only suspect I ever arrested for it got free room and board from the State for it. Perhaps you can argue it better than that unfortunate soul's attorney managed to... :43:


was this pre-2005 or after?

I looked up the exemptions to this again, and it is FAET tax, not NFA tax that they are talking about. And in 2005, the feds edited the FAET exemptions exmept those that made <50 firearms a calendar year.

Tripper
04-29-2012, 7:34 PM
i'm gonna go with


wasnt a very good lawyer

Grumpyoldretiredcop
04-29-2012, 9:21 PM
was this pre-2005 or after?

I looked up the exemptions to this again, and it is FAET tax, not NFA tax that they are talking about. And in 2005, the feds edited the FAET exemptions exmept those that made <50 firearms a calendar year.

It was several years prior to 2005. Didn't think to look and see if the Federal law had changed (that's one problem with being retired and no longer getting updates!).

Either your suspect had other things going against him or you're bragging about putting someone away for doing something which is completely and explicitly legal. I'm hoping that it's the former, but from what you're saying here ...

He had other issues, and the state of the law at the time (see above) was otherwise. He received additional time based on that charge. I've never taken anyone to jail for a non-existent violation and your hope is partially (given the change in law) confirmed. I'm pretty sure that if the offense had not existed, he wouldn't have received a sentence based on it.