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View Full Version : Sig522 is broken on day 2


wheezy
04-22-2012, 3:26 PM
Well, I spent a month researching this purchase. Spent another few weeks trying to actually get my hands on one in stock somewhere. Finally took delivery on Friday, 4/20/2012. Purchased from OC Indoor in Brea CA.

First day with it was yesterday 4/21 at Lytle Creek. I ran nothing but CCI Mini Mags through it. Unfortunately, had an out of battery discharge that blew the mag apart right around the 200 round mark. :eek:

Did I put too many rounds before a full cleaning on a new 522? If this out of battery discharge was my own fault, I'll chock it up to a lesson learned. Seems like it shouldn't have been an issue with the threads I've read about guys putting literally thousands of rounds through them with no cleaning. :confused:

Speaking of blown apart mag, the mag that came with the gun only holds 9 rounds. I purchased two more that held all ten. Definitely a manufacturing flaw; the little red follower was considerably taller on the mag that came with the rifle. Just added to my frustration.

Back to the story:

There was so much crud in the gun after the out of battery that we called it a day and continued to shoot an infinitely more reliable Winchester Model 94 made in 1924. The saying, "they don't make em like they used to" is so true. :oji:

Anyhow, I brought the Sig home and gave it a thorough cleaning. I noticed that the extractor spring seemed to be on the weak side. Everything was meticulously cleaned, inspected and reassembled with no visible signs of anything else being wrong other than the broken mag and the weak extractor spring which I assumed was normal.

Went to the range today 4/22 and first 50 rounds went perfect. CCI Stingers this time. Accuracy was excellent with these rounds and function was perfect. I decided to try some cheap stuff from WallyWorld as the rifle now had about 250 rounds through it and seemed to be running like a champ.

Well, it didn't go well at all. I got a several stovepipes followed by a failure to eject followed by a second failure to eject and then a third. I called it a day.

Upon arriving home I started to break down the rifle and realized the ejector was GONE. As in, completely missing. From my reading, entirely possible that some damage was done when the out of battery occurred and it finally just happend to give when I put in the cheap ammo. ***** man, I don't know. But I'm way frustrated.

Either way. Not the rock solid performer I was hoping for regardless of WHY.

I'm really hoping the customer service is GREAT tomorrow. As a marketing guy, I can be a nightmare if I feel I've been wronged. I hope I don't sound like a hater, I'm not. I'm just frustrated and really hope to get the 522 dialed in because when it works, it's a lot of fun and surprisingly accurate!

Any input or feedback is welcome. Please be candid, you won't hurt my feelings. If this is entirely my fault for running too many rounds through a new file without a full cleaning and I'm just an idiot, then so be it. No biggy. I just want to get it fixed and get on with it. :rant::dots:

32dEgReEs
04-22-2012, 3:33 PM
I would say you went wrong after you had an out of battery discharge and then took it back to the range the next day without taking it to a gunsmith to have it looked over. More than likely the extractor was probably damaged after it fired out of battery and that is the reason it is now gone.

wheezy
04-22-2012, 3:49 PM
I would say, you're probably right. Lesson learned. Never had an out of battery before, and didn't really think a 22 could do any real damage to such a robust firearm. I'm wrong a lot though, so I should have known better.

Any input as to what would cause the out of battery? Did I indeed feed too much ammo through it before cleaning?

KandyRedCoi
04-22-2012, 3:49 PM
how does a rimfire rifle fire out of battery?

had thousands and thousands thru my 522 with very little break in...its been amazing...sorry yours has had issues...hopefully you get it all sorted out asap

paul0660
04-22-2012, 3:51 PM
I'm really hoping the customer service is GREAT tomorrow.

My experience has been excellent on out of warranty stuff. Get them to pay the shipping if necessary.

As for the cause, cleaning, etc, I dunno.

sofbak
04-22-2012, 3:52 PM
So you started with mini-mags (1235 fps, 135 ft-lb), had a semi-catastrophic failure, and then you switched to stingers with 1640 fps and 191 ft-lb of muzzle energy????????

What were you thinking?

Not only is the stinger a much hotter load, but IIRC the case is a smidge longer than the standard so they can get all that extra propellant in there with enough oxygen to burn it.

epic, just epic......................

wheezy
04-22-2012, 3:53 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvqbA0cCHKM

Actually seems to be KIND of common with the AR style 22LR systems. Chris at Lytle Creek said he's seen it a lot, but also said first time he'd seen a Sig do it.

wheezy
04-22-2012, 3:59 PM
So you started with mini-mags (1235 fps, 135 ft-lb), had a semi-catastrophic failure, and then you switched to stingers with 1640 fps and 191 ft-lb of muzzle energy????????

What were you thinking?

Not only is the stinger a much hotter load, but IIRC the case is a smidge longer than the standard so they can get all that extra propellant in there with enough oxygen to burn it.

epic, just epic......................

I'm not a 22 guy, was totally unaware it was that hot until you just brought it to my attention and also had no idea about the case. It was the only CCI 22 ammo WW had. The CCI ran flawless today all 50 rounds and centerpunched the 10 circle out of the target with every clip. Clearly, it wasn't a good idea. I'm no expert, I'm barely a novice, so if it was stupid and my fault, I take full responsibility.

That being said, I talked to a guy that shoots olympic level 22 stuff. Told him all about the situation. He said nothing negative or even hinted that what I was doing was stupid. He also came to check on me after the first to mags to see how it was running, which at the time was perfect.

Ugggg. Live and learn. Thanks for the candid feedback.

sofbak
04-22-2012, 4:06 PM
Knowledge is power, and also protection. I would bet a dollar to a hole in a donut, that somewhere in the manual that came with it there are some words of wisdom on what kind of ammo to run through it-not necesarily by brand, but by similar velocity/energy numbers I quoted.

Get your manual, read it, and protect yourself...Not only with the 522, but every firearm you own or shoot.



Sorry for your experience, and I hope Sig helps you out here.

wheezy
04-22-2012, 4:28 PM
Knowledge is power, and also protection. I would bet a dollar to a hole in a donut, that somewhere in the manual that came with it there are some words of wisdom on what kind of ammo to run through it-not necesarily by brand, but by similar velocity/energy numbers I quoted.

Get your manual, read it, and protect yourself...Not only with the 522, but every firearm you own or shoot.



Sorry for your experience, and I hope Sig helps you out here.

I agree with the knowledge is power and protection 100%
I read that manual twice and again just now. It mentions nothing in regards to ammo specifications. It mentions not to use handloaded, reloaded or other nonstandard ammo. Again though, no mention of anything specific.

I am going to go see the guys at OC Armory as they are more local to me than where I purchased and I trust them to do whatever is necessary to get the rifle back to perfect.

Thank you again for your candidness, it led to me learning more about 22LR ammo and just how different it can be.

sofbak
04-22-2012, 4:42 PM
......
I read that manual twice and again just now. It mentions nothing in regards to ammo specifications. It mentions not to use handloaded, reloaded or other nonstandard ammo. Again though, no mention of anything specific. ....

I'm a bit surpised that they don't give more specific info, but they did give you a "clue" (bolded above), albiet a crummy obscure one. Some in-depth research would be required to determine that stingers are definitely not "standard" ammo.

If maufacturers can't give any better guidance than that, I would suggest consulting the court of public opinion here for future reference on what ammo people are having success or issues with.

On a side bar to your awful expereince, I'm curios as well how an out-of-battery detonation could occur. I thought that was pretty much precluded by the design of the slide/pin/hammer combo. You could likely have had a problem brewing here from the start.

When you get some resolution or explanation on that, please enlighten the community with a new post.

good luck

joe321
04-22-2012, 4:51 PM
Can someone explain what an OBD is? I googled it but don't really understand.

In laymen's terms?

32dEgReEs
04-22-2012, 5:05 PM
Can someone explain what an OBD is? I googled it but don't really understand.

In laymen's terms?

Bolt wasnt fully closed and the round wasnt fully in the breach when it discharged. Meaning there is room for the fired gasses to escape out the back rather than going down the barrel.

Barry
04-22-2012, 6:11 PM
Out Of Battery in laymen's terms.....
And oh boy, are they loud. Especially for a lefty shooting a 10/22.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/Barry2/GunStuff/OOB22LR.jpg

Jeepers
04-22-2012, 6:20 PM
most likely the extractor was gone the minute you had the first incident


you said you ran 50 rounds of +/- 1640 fps stingers with no issue, thats due to that high fps ,thats what ejected the rounds

the lower velocity WW stuff just didnt have the power to do it ...

anywho lesson learned and now get er fixed and have some fun :) ....

02Caltaco
04-23-2012, 2:48 PM
Alright, I'm picking my 522 up in 2 days and after reading this I'm wondering if I need to worry about or avoid certain types of .22lr ammo?

rchow17
04-23-2012, 3:18 PM
I haven't had any problems so far with my 522. I've shot mostly the cheap stuff through it, the cci blazer bulk packs and the rifle is still very accurate with it.

0351USMC
04-23-2012, 3:23 PM
Speaking of blown apart mag, the mag that came with the gun only holds 9 rounds. I purchased two more that held all ten. Definitely a manufacturing flaw; the little red follower was considerably taller on the mag that came with the rifle. Just added to my frustration.

:

Yeap, all my BD mags only hold 9 rounds:facepalm:

loosewreck
04-23-2012, 3:34 PM
Call Sig, they'll email you a shipping label.

I was the second owner of a 1st gen with a canted sight block, they fixed it free of charge.

wheezy
04-26-2012, 6:42 AM
Extractor was still there after day 1 and initial incident. I thoroughly cleaned and inspected rifle at that point.

UPDATE: I didn't want to have to pack and ship rifle and contacted local gunsmith. He claims he's been waiting on parts for another 522 for over 3MONTHS. YIKES. He won't even take it in.

UPDATE 2: Called Sig just now and had the pleasure of speaking with Jay in customer service. Jay was patient, listened to my story and issued an RMA and shipping label. AWESOME CUSTOMER SERVICE on the phone. I will be packing and shipping the rifle today. The only part that is kind of bitter sweet is the turn around time at approx two weeks. Normally, I'd say that kind of turnaround time is also outstanding, but with a 2 day old rifle, it is a bit of a bummer. Would have much rather gone to a qualified Sig armorer and had parts replaced on the spot. It is what it is and I give an overall "satisfied customer" rating with Sig at this point.

I will post again when I hear back or receive the rifle back. Thanks for all the input and guidance gentlemen, it is appreciated.

sofbak
04-26-2012, 9:31 AM
... I will be packing and shipping the rifle today. The only part that is kind of bitter sweet is the turn around time at approx two weeks. Normally, I'd say that kind of turnaround time is also outstanding, but with a 2 day old rifle, it is a bit of a bummer....

I know your pain. Had to send a nearly new sp01 tactical and a brand new rimfire kit back to CZ cuz the rf kit would not fire:( CZ got them a week ago Tuesday, and I haven't heard anything yet. So we wait....sigh....

Hope Sig gets it right and soon.... good luck

stitchnicklas
04-26-2012, 9:48 AM
Extractor was still there after day 1 and initial incident. I thoroughly cleaned and inspected rifle at that point.

UPDATE: I didn't want to have to pack and ship rifle and contacted local gunsmith. He claims he's been waiting on parts for another 522 for over 3MONTHS. YIKES. He won't even take it in.

UPDATE 2: Called Sig just now and had the pleasure of speaking with Jay in customer service. Jay was patient, listened to my story and issued an RMA and shipping label. AWESOME CUSTOMER SERVICE on the phone. I will be packing and shipping the rifle today. The only part that is kind of bitter sweet is the turn around time at approx two weeks. Normally, I'd say that kind of turnaround time is also outstanding, but with a 2 day old rifle, it is a bit of a bummer. Would have much rather gone to a qualified Sig armorer and had parts replaced on the spot. It is what it is and I give an overall "satisfied customer" rating with Sig at this point.

I will post again when I hear back or receive the rifle back. Thanks for all the input and guidance gentlemen, it is appreciated.

GOD TO HEAR

wheezy
05-22-2012, 7:18 PM
Well, due to it being a major pain in the arse to find a box to ship a rifle in and with a seriously busy schedule, it took me almost two weeks to finally get the rifle dropped off at FedEx.

I'll start with the minor gripes. Website claims "2 day air shipping will be issued" and same for return. It wasn't, it was ground. And from So Cal to NH, that's a solid week of transit time each way. BUT, you get what you pay for. It was free. I'm assuming if this was a 716 or other more expensive rifle that the 2 day air would have been honored. I didn't complain and just went with it.

Not related to Sig in any way, but why the f can't any gun shop give me a box? Fowlers gun shop, NOPE, big 5 nope, wally world, nope, private small shop x 3, nope, guitar center x 2, nope. F ME!

I should have taken pictures of my craftsmanship. I'm SURE the guys at Sig got a laugh out of it. Cost me a good $20 in uhaul boxes and tape, but I packed it good!

Shipped it on a Friday, and it didn't get there until the following Friday. They shipped it out the following Wednesday. AWESOME TURN AROUND TIME. Absolutely thrilled with that level of service. In my opinion, it doesn't get any better.

It arrived today. Had it routed to local fed ex as I knew I wouldn't be home and was able to pick it up after work. Couldn't wait to get her home and see what they had done.

Note said: Inspected, replaced extractor, test fired, no issues. Complementary 10rd mag, mag that was received was cracked.

Again FRICKEN AWESOME SERVICE! They even returned the cracked one, with the 9 round guide replaced so it holds 10. (that mag functions fine even with the crack) Extractor had been replaced and works great.

Only complaint on return shipping is their barrel plug is like an extractor handle. It tore up the foam in my case really bad. The fed ex ground shipping clearly the package took a beating. Rifle appears fine though. I'd like to see them pack stuff A LOT better. It's the only area they could use major improvement.

OVERALL: I give Sig a big TWO THUMBS UP and a solid A rating for their service. While it sucked not having my new rifle the past month, it's now home safe and sound and ready for a day at the range on Saturday at no cost to me. Well, other than $20 in cardboard and tape and $50 in diesel fuel from driving around trying to find a box. :cool:

Just might buy me a 556.

Packy14
05-22-2012, 7:26 PM
meanwhile, my tacsol dedicated AR probably has 20000 rounds through it w/out a hitch :)

wheezy
05-22-2012, 8:41 PM
Good for you. Let's go to the range and shoot at 200 yards.

Hecktic
05-22-2012, 10:09 PM
Do you know how long their warranty is good for? I’m thinking of getting one next week and what are you using for sites/ optics?

loosewreck
05-23-2012, 5:09 PM
Well, due to it being a major pain in the arse to find a box to ship a rifle in and with a seriously busy schedule, it took me almost two weeks to finally get the rifle dropped off at FedEx.

Not related to Sig in any way, but why the f can't any gun shop give me a box? Fowlers gun shop, NOPE, big 5 nope, wally world, nope, private small shop x 3, nope, guitar center x 2, nope. F ME!

I should have taken pictures of my craftsmanship. I'm SURE the guys at Sig got a laugh out of it. Cost me a good $20 in uhaul boxes and tape, but I packed it good!

LOL, I had the same problem finding a box. I had to eventually make one from a large box I bought from Box Brothers. I lagged due to the box, so it arrived at Sig during the week of Christmas, so they took longer shipping it back as would be expected during that time.

The plug chewed up the foam in my case too, but like you, I think it had more to do with FedEx's handling than Sig's packing, the charging handle would have done the same damage, if the package is roughly handled.

TechSoldier
05-24-2012, 5:34 PM
Been running the Federal 550 box and have probably around 1.5k rounds through my 522 and I've only had one issue which was a dud round. I've heard people shooting the CCIs but with the success I've had with the federal ammo its the only kind I'll use at this point.

wheezy
05-24-2012, 7:54 PM
Not sure on warranty, but I feel that sig is More than fair with how they handle issues. I'm considering another sig 556 or 716. So that's some serious coin and I have no doubts regarding their service.

On the 522 I'm currently using a Nikon ori staff 3-9x40 with a warne 1 piece mount. It's a really accurate rifle, even compared to some damn fine bolt action shooters.

Lol on pinche boxes!

Good info on the federal. I will be doing extensive testing on ammo. More in regards to accuracy at longer range but will keep tabs on reliability and function as well.

Headed to range on Saturday to chew through a box of federal! Have a large order of mixed ammo coming from Natchez next week.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Wrangler John
05-25-2012, 10:22 AM
Ruger warns about using "Stinger" ammunition in their 10/22 Target and Tactical rifles. The warnig applies to Stinger ammunition due to the case which is longer than SAAMI .22 LR specifications. Quoting Ruger: " They can stick in the tighter chambers of target rifles, . . . which can result in a hazardous ruptured case and release of hot powder gases and brass when fired."

Stinger ammunition when fired in any semiautomatic firearm, that has been fired using standard .22 LR cartridges, can hang up on residual bullet and powder residue, fail to chamber entirely and slam fire due to bolt thrust. This may apply to any semiautomatic firearm with a minimum dimension chamber, or one that has become grossly fouled with bullet residue from extensive firing. This is the same problem that can occur by firing short .38 Special lead bullet ammunition in a .357 Magnum chamber, where the build up of a lead ring prevents or hinders chambering the longer .357 Magnum case.

Stinger type ammunition may work reliably in some semiautomatic firearms, but generally should be reserved for non-semiautomatic rifles, such as bolt, lever or pump actions, and single shot pistols or revolvers.

wheezy
05-25-2012, 7:35 PM
Great info!

Wrangler John
05-25-2012, 11:35 PM
LOL, I had the same problem finding a box. I had to eventually make one from a large box I bought from Box Brothers. I lagged due to the box, so it arrived at Sig during the week of Christmas, so they took longer shipping it back as would be expected during that time.

The plug chewed up the foam in my case too, but like you, I think it had more to do with FedEx's handling than Sig's packing, the charging handle would have done the same damage, if the package is roughly handled.

Always save the box the rifle came in for the return trip. Yes my garage has stacks of rifle, pistol and scope boxes.

Otherwise purchase an inexpensive hard case, Plano makes inexpensive rifle cases and MTM the same for pistols. Then carefully open the box the case came in by cutting the tape, and use that entire set up to ship your firearm. I have done this for years and it works great.

Boxes are available here:

http://www.cameronpackaging.com/gun_boxes.html

Scroll down the index list on the left they have AR 15 boxes, foam inserts, sleeves and more. http://www.cameronpackaging.com/AR-15_Boxes.html#CARfoam Scroll down to the bottom of that page and they have boxes for gun cases.

And pistol boxes: http://www.cameronpackaging.com/foam_lined_pistol_boxes.html

Savage ships complete rifle stocks in giant cardboard shipping tubes about 6" in diameter with plastic end plugs. Even a length of PVC pipe with taped on end caps will work, although the weight raises shipping cost.

Don't forget the local U Haul store, they have shipping boxes and stuff that might work. The Lamp Box is 12"x12"x40". U Haul and Staples, Office Depot and others have rolls of bubble wrap.

Wrap everything in bubble wrap or lots of newspaper.

Don't cheap out on the shipping box, transit damage is a pain.

geeknow
05-26-2012, 5:55 AM
Sounds like Sig stepped to the plate on this one. Good on them.

i've not had any issues with my 522, btw.