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View Full Version : Hey Seasoned AR Builders, what else do I need here? PIX


Elwood_Blues
04-20-2012, 12:50 PM
So a little over a year ago I built my first AR and of course I have been infected with the addiction :43:. I currently have enough parts to assemble another complete rifle, but the one below is what I'm working on now.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/mustangphil302/Forums/P1130478.jpg

Parts include:
- QD Billet lower
- mil-surp LPK with Hogue grip
- A2 stock kit, Bushmaster I think
- 20" FN barrel with FSB, no pins
- Spikes BCG
- Spikes upper with DC and FA
- M4 carry handle and generic CH
- Magpul handguards
- Magpul B.A.D.
- Raddlock or regular BB

What I think I need:
- A2 flash hider
- Hand guard cap
- FSB pins
- Gas tube
- Delta ring assembly
- What am I missing here?

Tools:
- Vise
- Garrett's Armorer's Wrench - took advantage of my B-day and asked the wife to get it for me :D
- Vise Block Combo - http://www.amazon.com/Aluminum-Upper-Delta-Lower-Receiver/dp/B006QNHRVK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1334949934&sr=8-3
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Jlr5yJeYL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Now, I built my first one using a hammer, pliers, and electrical tape, but I got the upper already assembled. With this build, I'm not sure if the above combo will be adequate because I might run into a possibility of sheering off the mounting "ears" on the upper when I torque the barrel. So those of you who built few of them, what do you think, should I get the block like one below instead?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41LvCnXSQ8L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

One last thing, I got the upper (new) from some dude in Florida, with good feedback, who told me that the upper didn't have M4 feed ramps. It looks to me like it does and I was specifically looking for one without. The reason for that is the rifle cuts on the barrel extension are not as angled as carbine and I'm afraid that if I use SP or HP ammo, it might get caught on that lip. Am I over thinking this whole thing, or should I sell this upper and buy one that I feel I need, or grind the cuts down on the barrel extension? It's also a pet-peeve, it just doesn't look right.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/mustangphil302/Forums/P1130479.jpg


Thanks in advance for any imput and your time.

bender152
04-20-2012, 1:49 PM
I have both styles of upper receiver blocks. The clamp style is more secure, but I did not have any trouble with the block version either.

If I am working on a standard upper receiver, then I'll use the clamp block. If I am working on a non-standard receiver (Vltor), I'll use the standard block.

The standard block I have looks like this, though. It looks like it might provide more support than the one you have listed.

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/730/730930.jpg

bender152
04-20-2012, 1:52 PM
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/mustangphil302/Forums/P1130479.jpg

That's not good. Bullets can get caught on that lip causing your gun to jam.

I would either get a new receiver without ramps or get a dremel and grind down the barrel. (A new receiver would be the ideal solution.)

monk
04-20-2012, 2:06 PM
All I can see you missing is ammo...but then again I'm barely in the process of building my first AR...

mif_slim
04-20-2012, 2:14 PM
buffer spring? kinda hard to tell if you dont have it apart. LOL.

FeuerFrei
04-20-2012, 2:39 PM
peel washers and or crush washers for FH. make sur e the FH comes with it.
anti seize grease for the barrel nut install.
roll pin punches/punch set.
ar armorers wrench.
snap ring pliers.
jobber drill bit set.
synthetic motor oil for assembly and when you take it out to test fire.
US Army M16/M4 mauual. ( download )
OP,
question* FSB is not pinned already? if not do this (send it out to adco (http://www.adcofirearms.com/shopservices/shop_.cfm?code=5)) before you start.
dont try this at home.
btw, don't worry about the m4 cuts for now. chances are it will work anyway, if not you can mod this easy enough later on.
good luck and have fun.

Omega13device
04-20-2012, 3:40 PM
or get a dremel and grind down the barrel

NO!

The correct solution is to either get the correct upper receiver, or have a gunsmith replace your barrel extension with one that has M4 feedramps.

ILVSMOG
04-20-2012, 3:46 PM
If it doesn't come with one, get a gas tube roll pin when you buy the tube.

goodlookin1
04-20-2012, 3:49 PM
NO!

The correct solution is to either get the correct upper receiver, or have a gunsmith replace your barrel extension with one that has M4 feedramps.

You dont know his level of expertise.....maybe he has the ability to do it!

OP, dont just grab a dremel and do it yourself....you must take care when doing that. if you do, dont touch the upper part of the feedlips as that is what props the bullet up into the chamber....the lower channel part of the channels are less critical, but if you get them too steep, you can potentially have problems feeding.

If you're not well versed in gunsmithing, I wouldnt suggest the undertaking. Otherwise, fi you have the tools and the know-how, go for it.

BUT: If you mess up, you will likely need another barrel. Ask me how I know ;)

clutchy
04-20-2012, 4:15 PM
looks like you have an A3 barrel/chamber with an A4 upper (extended M4 feedramps)

you WILL have feed issues with that setup.


have you considered a featureless? you're kindof there already...

Elwood_Blues
04-20-2012, 8:35 PM
I have both styles of upper receiver blocks. The clamp style is more secure, but I did not have any trouble with the block version either.

If I am working on a standard upper receiver, then I'll use the clamp block. If I am working on a non-standard receiver (Vltor), I'll use the standard block.

The standard block I have looks like this, though. It looks like it might provide more support than the one you have listed.

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/730/730930.jpg

Kinda pricey, found this one on ebay and other Calgunners have used it and praised it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/223-Upper-receiver-vise-block-armorers-gunsmith-tool-fixture-delrin-barrel-work-/221005881033?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3374fa1ec9

That's not good. Bullets can get caught on that lip causing your gun to jam.

I would either get a new receiver without ramps or get a dremel and grind down the barrel. (A new receiver would be the ideal solution.)

I was thinking of grinding down, but I'm pretty sure I can get a straight trade for one without cuts in Marketplace, or just sell it and buy another one.

buffer spring? kinda hard to tell if you dont have it apart. LOL.

I got the whole A2 kit, spring, buffer, spacer, tube, the whole shabang. In fact, only the stock is on it without even the tube, just for the picture, ;)

peel washers and or crush washers for FH. make sure the FH comes with it.
Check, already found that

OP,
question* FSB is not pinned already? if not do this (send it out to adco (http://www.adcofirearms.com/shopservices/shop_.cfm?code=5)) before you start.
dont try this at home.

Why? FSB is not pinned, but why not do it at home? BCM site says the same thing, I don't get it. I watched few videos where dudes do it right on the work bench. Just use proper support (block or similar) for the FSB and the barrel, and it goes in like butter. Can you or anyone else please elaborate why I should pay someone to do it?


btw, don't worry about the m4 cuts for now. chances are it will work anyway, if not you can mod this easy enough later on.
good luck and have fun.

I'm gonna go ahead and get a proper upper. It will just bother me too much and the cost and effort is insignificant.

NO!

The correct solution is to either get the correct upper receiver, or have a gunsmith replace your barrel extension with one that has M4 feedramps.

Again, based on suggestions, I'm going with what I wanted to do in the first place, get the right upper.

If it doesn't come with one, get a gas tube roll pin when you buy the tube.

Already got it, forgot to mention it.

You dont know his level of expertise.....maybe he has the ability to do it!

OP, dont just grab a dremel and do it yourself....you must take care when doing that. if you do, dont touch the upper part of the feedlips as that is what props the bullet up into the chamber....the lower channel part of the channels are less critical, but if you get them too steep, you can potentially have problems feeding.

If you're not well versed in gunsmithing, I wouldnt suggest the undertaking. Otherwise, fi you have the tools and the know-how, go for it.

BUT: If you mess up, you will likely need another barrel. Ask me how I know ;)

I am very precise, I have been working on assembling model cars since I was pre-teen. It only escalated from there, I fabricated parts for my cars and motorcycles, have been working on cars for 20 years, and I'm just good with building stuff in general. I'm pretty sure I can tackle that job too ;)

looks like you have an A3 barrel/chamber with an A4 upper (extended M4 feedramps)

you WILL have feed issues with that setup.


have you considered a featureless? you're kindof there already...

As mentioned above, I'm getting a different upper. As far as featureless, not going that route just because I really dig having the evil pistol grip.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions!
Phil

Speedpower
04-20-2012, 9:20 PM
This picture is from AR15armory.com, someone also posted this on another thread, your feed ramp does not look good.

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/uploads/1315930128/gallery_18313_138_71257.jpg

bender152
04-20-2012, 9:53 PM
question* FSB is not pinned already? if not do this (send it out to adco (http://www.adcofirearms.com/shopservices/shop_.cfm?code=5)) before you start.
dont try this at home.

Why? FSB is not pinned, but why not do it at home? BCM site says the same thing, I don't get it. I watched few videos where dudes do it right on the work bench. Just use proper support (block or similar) for the FSB and the barrel, and it goes in like butter. Can you or anyone else please elaborate why I should pay someone to do it?

First off, when a FSB is initially installed, the FSB is placed onto the barrel, then the taper pin holes are drilled into the assembly. That FSB is specifically mated to that barrel.

As such, there will be variances from one assembly to another. As an example, I have two BCM barrels where the taper pins do not line up with the other at all.

Now, is your barrel already drilled to accept taper pins? If so, is that the original FSB for that barrel?

If the answer is "yes" to both, then you should be fine just getting new taper pins.

If the barrel is not yet drilled for taper pins, then you should send it to a smith to get it properly drilled (i.e. Adco).

If the FSB is not the original, then you may have issues aligning the taper pins or issues with your FSB being canted.

artoaster
04-20-2012, 10:18 PM
NO!

The correct solution is to either get the correct upper receiver, or have a gunsmith replace your barrel extension with one that has M4 feedramps.

Do not grind down the current barrel extension! Do it right and the easiest would be to keep barrel and get another stripped upper without M4 cuts.

monk
04-20-2012, 10:18 PM
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_179/174244_.html&page=2

You should use a special jig to install an FSB.

sonnyt650
04-21-2012, 6:59 AM
Why? FSB is not pinned, but why not do it at home? BCM site says the same thing, I don't get it. I watched few videos where dudes do it right on the work bench. Just use proper support (block or similar) for the FSB and the barrel, and it goes in like butter. Can you or anyone else please elaborate why I should pay someone to do it?

As someone who's only installed screw-on gas blocks (Adams Arms piston kit) I can state that it's difficult to get the cant on the FSB correct. I have however considered the more permanent kits so researched what's involved that way. Since correct install of a pinned FSB requires drilling into the barrel (not really, it's just making a flat spot for the pins preventing both slip off the barrel and change in cant) it's even more difficult to fix if it's not correct. You need to somehow make sure the pins are the direct opposite of the index pin on the extension around 16" away, wouldn't be able to do that myself but maybe you've got the facilities.

Never mind -- that last link showed the problem.

mif_slim
04-21-2012, 7:49 AM
Elwoodblue, you know tje reason why their telling you to get another stripped upper right?? So later down the road you get so annoyed of the extra stripped upper that you must put it to use! Lol

Elwood_Blues
04-21-2012, 4:15 PM
First off, when a FSB is initially installed, the FSB is placed onto the barrel, then the taper pin holes are drilled into the assembly. That FSB is specifically mated to that barrel.

As such, there will be variances from one assembly to another. As an example, I have two BCM barrels where the taper pins do not line up with the other at all.

Now, is your barrel already drilled to accept taper pins? If so, is that the original FSB for that barrel?

If the answer is "yes" to both, then you should be fine just getting new taper pins.

If the barrel is not yet drilled for taper pins, then you should send it to a smith to get it properly drilled (i.e. Adco).

If the FSB is not the original, then you may have issues aligning the taper pins or issues with your FSB being canted.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_179/174244_.html&page=2

You should use a special jig to install an FSB.

As someone who's only installed screw-on gas blocks (Adams Arms piston kit) I can state that it's difficult to get the cant on the FSB correct. I have however considered the more permanent kits so researched what's involved that way. Since correct install of a pinned FSB requires drilling into the barrel (not really, it's just making a flat spot for the pins preventing both slip off the barrel and change in cant) it's even more difficult to fix if it's not correct. You need to somehow make sure the pins are the direct opposite of the index pin on the extension around 16" away, wouldn't be able to do that myself but maybe you've got the facilities.

Never mind -- that last link showed the problem.

I see, that makes sense. I forgot to mention that the barrel was already drilled and the FSB appears to be the one that originally came with it. I bought the barrel used from the market place and the seller stated the it has under 1000 rounds through it and his cheap armorer removed the pins.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/mustangphil302/Forums/P1130481.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/mustangphil302/Forums/P1130480.jpg

Elwoodblue, you know tje reason why their telling you to get another stripped upper right?? So later down the road you get so annoyed of the extra stripped upper that you must put it to use! Lol

I wish, unfortunately I have to sell this one to have the money for the one I need.

Here is another question, if I'm using new upper, new BCG, and used barrel, do I have to worry about head spacing?

Elwood_Blues
04-23-2012, 8:35 PM
Here is another question, if I'm using new upper, new BCG, and used barrel, do I have to worry about head spacing?

So can anyone help me with the above question? Thanks, Phil

NYY
04-23-2012, 8:50 PM
make sure the thing runs flawlessly first before upgrading furniture. the feed ramps look odd if that hasnt been mentioned already..

sonnyt650
04-24-2012, 6:22 PM
That ar15barrels website is a treasure trove of information written and maintained by a former Calgunner who knew his stuff. In there somewhere you'll find that for ARs setting headspace is done prior to permanently pinning the barrel extension to the barrel, and so there's really nothing you can do about it if it's wrong. Get it checked and if nothing is wrong you're golden, otherwise... :(