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View Full Version : how come multigun/3gun do not perform on person gun transitions?


hayaku
04-19-2012, 7:12 PM
maybe i'm not seeing enough videos (and i can't find time on a weekend to join a match) but i never see someone transition a long gun (ar or shotgun) with a sling to their side arm and vice versa.

all i see are buckets and places to place the long gun and switch out. no one runs and guns with their guns on them? also, none of the long guns have slings. wouldn't that be a more realistic scenario (swap to the most appropriate weapon system for the task as you run into it?)

am i not seeing all the videos or is there some reason for this?

SuperSet
04-19-2012, 7:19 PM
Liability and safety reasons, primarily. Competitions are open to the public so you have a large pool of unknown gunhandling abilities. The current method limits the unknowns.
Having said that, I've shot smaller matches, most out of state, that do transition from the long gun to the sidearm. Most of them require you to unload your long gun before the transition.

HighLander51
04-19-2012, 7:24 PM
First of all you don't use slings in 3 Gun, or at least sanctioned 3 gun matches. USPSA rules don't allow you to have more than one gun on your person for engagement. It's all about safety and liability, to the range owner, match director, RO's, other shooters...

Go watch a 3 Gun match in person, and you will see how it works.

SuperSet
04-19-2012, 7:27 PM
An older, crappier quality video from USTC (Blackwater) 3-gun. You can see it about 1:30 in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-B_p_kOiYE

hayaku
04-19-2012, 7:39 PM
An older, crappier quality video from USTC (Blackwater) 3-gun. You can see it about 1:30 in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-B_p_kOiYE

yeah!!!! that's what i'm talking about!!!

i think the match style framework just lost it's appeal for me.. tactical classes seem to be more fun... don't get me wrong, i'm hella impressed by competitors on how well they shoot, how fast they are on target and reloads and transitions and i am no where as fast as the guys in vids... (usually if you have vids you are pretty dang good... and i don't make vids lol)

SuperSet
04-19-2012, 7:51 PM
Long gun to sidearm transition is a good skill to learn and you can practice it dry in your home. But, it's not really that useful in a match setting and adds quite a bit of risk to it. There are new guys that can't even safely navigate the current course of fire and rules set!

And something else to think about... how often do you think this happens in a self-defense/combat situation? I asked Frank Proctor this question and he's served 3 tours in Iraq and 3 tours in Afghanistan, doing the scary stuff. He said it's never happened to him and he doesn't know anyone that it's happened to. Maybe it's there but it's super rare.

joelogic
04-19-2012, 8:14 PM
When the timer starts people's brains melt. I have seen countless mags fall out or people trying to insert mags backwards.

+1 to SS's comment about unknown training baseline.

Plus if someone shoots them self during a match it would have a large impact on the sport.

GeoffLinder
04-19-2012, 8:34 PM
Very simply, these matches are all about "gun racing" not "tactical training". Whats fastest AND safest while going fast is whats important, not being realistic.

You can find tactical correctness style competitions where retention is done with weapon transitions but thats not what USPSA and IMG style multi-gun is all about ;)

RuggedJay
04-19-2012, 8:42 PM
If you wanna practice those skills you can practica on your own at a private range that allows it or in the desert or take a "tactical" training course.

TempleKnight
04-19-2012, 8:52 PM
When the timer starts people's brains melt. I have seen countless mags fall out or people trying to insert mags backwards.

+1 to SS's comment about unknown training baseline.

Plus if someone shoots them self during a match it would have a large impact on the sport.

Stuff happens....at my first match I tried to shove my cell phone in the magwell during a reload.

joelogic
04-19-2012, 8:57 PM
Stuff happens....at my first match I tried to shove my cell phone in the magwell during a reload.

This could be a whole other thread. I have seen AR mags try and go into glocks. Glock mags going into AR's. People shooting the COF without ear protection.

prc77
04-19-2012, 9:16 PM
Eggo frozen waffle in the VCR:facepalm::):)

hayaku
04-19-2012, 9:20 PM
If you wanna practice those skills you can practica on your own at a private range that allows it or in the desert or take a "tactical" training course.

that is exactly what i have been doing... only taking tactical training classes.

sargenv
04-19-2012, 9:56 PM
People shooting the COF without ear protection.

Pardon?

I can recall at least one story about the SOF 3-gun match that a friend attended.. He started shooting, realized his ear protection wasn't in place, and when he turned to the RO asking about starting over, the RO told said shooter, "Sorry, the timer is running"... to wit he applied his hearing protection and continued the COF..

Scotty
04-19-2012, 11:52 PM
It a big safety reason. If the dangling gun goes past 180, you go home.

gose
04-20-2012, 12:03 AM
Sure, USPSA wont allow it, but out of the 15 biggest 3-gun matches, one is run under USPSA rules...
Blue Ridge mountain and Iron man are two matches that come to mind where I've used slings, but I know they've been used in several others. If you shoot some big matches you will run into it sooner or later.
Mostly its a slung empty long gun at start, but I've seen other versions where we've picked up and slung long guns during the stage, Ive run stages with a long gun in one hand while shooting my pistol, I've reholstered my handgun at a few occasions, both cold and hot while transitioning to long gun + probably a few more variations that I'm too tired to remember now :)

speedrrracer
04-20-2012, 10:19 AM
Stuff happens....at my first match I tried to shove my cell phone in the magwell during a reload.
This could be a whole other thread. I have seen AR mags try and go into glocks. Glock mags going into AR's. People shooting the COF without ear protection.

This could be a whole other forum ;)

Last week I was talking to the on-deck shooter about the COF. He's rehearsing his plan, all dialed in. Beep goes off, he draws and squeezes trigger -- mag falls out :facepalm:

I look at the mag -- it's empty :facepalm: :facepalm: He later realizes it's from his wife's gun :eek: :facepalm:

mecam
04-20-2012, 4:11 PM
maybe i'm not seeing enough videos (and i can't find time on a weekend to join a match) but i never see someone transition a long gun (ar or shotgun) with a sling to their side arm and vice versa.

all i see are buckets and places to place the long gun and switch out. no one runs and guns with their guns on them? also, none of the long guns have slings. wouldn't that be a more realistic scenario (swap to the most appropriate weapon system for the task as you run into it?)

am i not seeing all the videos or is there some reason for this?

Chabot multigun matches is the only local place in the Bay Area that allows running with all weapons hot on you and you transition hot. You do need a sling for your long gun. They don't run by USPSA rules though.

https://www.chabotgunclub.com/3-Gun.htm

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guns_and_labs
04-20-2012, 5:26 PM
Stuff happens....at my first match I tried to shove my cell phone in the magwell during a reload.

Did it fit?

cal3gunner
04-22-2012, 6:02 PM
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